Zone1 A lot of people here suffer from CDS: Catholic Derangement Syndrome

[Dadoalex]

Kind of interesting to remember when in ancient days Jews settled on ten percent (the tithe), church and government were one and the same. Think of what we pay today: Sales Tax, Gas Tax, State Tax, Federal Tax, Social Security Tax...After paying well over 30% of our income to the government, then we contribute to our places of faith...

Ever think of insisting our government make do with ten percent in all taxes, but we would still do a separate contribution to church?

Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's

Take it up with Jesus.

 

[1miseryindex]

For denominations who are convinced that Jesus' blood covers up all their sins and that God only sees Jesus' blood not their sins, these passages will hold no meaning--unless they have a bit of interest in understanding why Catholics believe as they do.

most antiCatholics LOVE their anti-Catholic-ness! That's just what my own experiences inform me of.

In any case, I don't recall anything like purgation after death mentioned in Job. I don't suppose you can refer me to where I could find that? I've read Job more thn once, didn't see it. But I am not a protestant who refuses to learn

 

[The Irish Ram]

You are a Catholic who refuses to learn...

 

[Dadoalex]

Really?

What definition of "grow up" do you go by?

I see the world for what it is
I see religion for what it is
For some 3000 years monotheistic religion has made this world a much worse place.

 

[Leo123]

If questioning their beliefs and rituals make him a idiot, the Catholics who believe in transubstantiation must be geniuses in your book?

Cannibalism is not a part of Catholic faith. Freakoid.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

most antiCatholics LOVE their anti-Catholic-ness! That's just what my own experiences inform me of.

In any case, I don't recall anything like purgation after death mentioned in Job. I don't suppose you can refer me to where I could find that? I've read Job more thn once, didn't see it. But I am not a protestant who refuses to learn

.

The indoctrination is pretty strong. Their TV tells them that Catholics are BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD!

They cannot overcome what the TV says.

.

 

[Meriweather]

I do not think so. I think something as significant as purgatory should have more substantive Scriptural backing than a possible allusion in a parable. I certainly wouldn't base an entire matter of faith on it.

Keep in mind, the people of that day had no doubt there was a purification process after death. Why state the obvious? Allusions (which are throughout both the Old and New Testaments) make the point. Fifteen hundred years later, some began thinking that an automatic pass into heaven was given to all who believed in Jesus. No more need to worry about sins, past, present, or future--all taken care of, so no need for purification as some decided God only sees Christ's blood that covers all sin.

There are two ways of looking at these conclusions. The first is that they are not that logical. But the second way of looking at it, Is what great faith. These people have faith their sins don't matter at all if they believe Jesus removed all taint of all sins they would ever commit a couple of thousand years before they were even born and were committing those sins. Jesus put much stock in faith, not just great faith, but faith the size of a mustard seed. I wish all these people the best.

Keep in mind, the Bible tells a different story from the conclusion Luther and others leapt to. The Bible also asks for great faith--and the faith the size of a mustard seed. Faith is a strong connection between the two.

 

[Meriweather]

In any case, I don't recall anything like purgation after death mentioned in Job. I don't suppose you can refer me to where I could find that? I've read Job more thn once, didn't see it. But I am not a protestant who refuses to learn

No, purification/purgatory are not mentioned in Job, but the idea is there because Job prayed for the members of his family who had died.

 

[WinterBorn]

Yep, true story.

There's something about Catholicism that drives some anti-Catholic Protestant zealots to... loony tunes.

I mean, one anti-Catholic poster here comes to mind, but will remain un-named, but really they all say about the same thing... over and over and over ad nauseum, in fact

It's always: You Catholics worship Mary, not Jesus! (Who knew??)
and stuff like: You follow the pope instead of Jesus! (Who knew??)
and: You make up stuff that can't be found ANYWHERE in Scripture.

Then when you show them that Scriptures actually DO exist that support Catholic beliefs, like Mt 18:23 re Purgatory and etc,

What do we get in response

crickets

Clarify this for me. Is the "CDS" or catholic derangement syndrome, for those deranged in favor of, or those deranged in opposition to, the Catholic Church.

 

[The Irish Ram]

.

The indoctrination is pretty strong. Their TV tells them that Catholics are BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD!

They cannot overcome what the TV says.

.

lol. Not one. That statement is ridiculous...

 

[The Irish Ram]

The Bible tells us that Abraham's Bosom was emptied and they returned with Jesus for 40 days. Matthew said that they ascended with Christ.
Now I need the scripture where Christ pulls over and lets Abraham and King David, the beggar and the rest out at Purgatory to begin suffering...

 

[Meriweather]

The Bible tells us that Abraham's Bosom was emptied and they returned with Jesus for 40 days. Matthew said that they ascended with Christ.
Now I need the scripture where Christ pulls over and lets Abraham and King David, the beggar and the rest out at Purgatory to begin suffering...

Imagining purification/purgatory as something it is not does not make it go away.

 

[hadit]

Keep in mind, the people of that day had no doubt there was a purification process after death. Why state the obvious? Allusions (which are throughout both the Old and New Testaments) make the point. Fifteen hundred years later, some began thinking that an automatic pass into heaven was given to all who believed in Jesus. No more need to worry about sins, past, present, or future--all taken care of, so no need for purification as some decided God only sees Christ's blood that covers all sin.

There are two ways of looking at these conclusions. The first is that they are not that logical. But the second way of looking at it, Is what great faith. These people have faith their sins don't matter at all if they believe Jesus removed all taint of all sins they would ever commit a couple of thousand years before they were even born and were committing those sins. Jesus put much stock in faith, not just great faith, but faith the size of a mustard seed. I wish all these people the best.

Keep in mind, the Bible tells a different story from the conclusion Luther and others leapt to. The Bible also asks for great faith--and the faith the size of a mustard seed. Faith is a strong connection between the two.

You pose an interesting thought here about a person being purified after death, one with which I don't agree, especially given that Yeshua took a man with a lifetime of sin and wrongdoing directly to Paradise with Him, based solely on that man's literal deathbed faith. If He can do that for that sinner, He can do it for me.

Furthermore, from whence comes the idea that those still alive on earth are able to effect even in the smallest degree a person's progress in that purification process?

 

[Meriweather]

You pose an interesting thought here about a person being purified after death, one with which I don't agree, especially given that Yeshua took a man with a lifetime of sin and wrongdoing directly to Paradise with Him, based solely on that man's literal deathbed faith. If He can do that for that sinner, He can do it for me.

Furthermore, from whence comes the idea that those still alive on earth are able to effect even in the smallest degree a person's progress in that purification process?

Catholics believe that the Body of Christ is made up of both the living and those who have passed on. This is based on Christ teaching that God is the God of the living, not the dead (when referring to others who have passed on).

The Apostles were Jews, and Jews of that time prayed for those who had passed on.
So, yes, from childhood on, I have prayed for those who have passed on, both for those I knew and did not know. In doing this, I have had three remarkable experiences, so I am a believer and continue praying for the dead. We, and those who have passed on, may be closer to each other than we are aware.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Clarify this for me. Is the "CDS" or catholic derangement syndrome, for those deranged in favor of, or those deranged in opposition to, the Catholic Church.

Good question. From the last three commenters, it seems this “Catholic derangement syndrome” is what is sometimes called “great faith” by RC believers. Most non-believers are pretty indifferent to religious “derangement syndromes” — except when they get aggressive and political.

Most of us “liberals” of whatever religious convictions are reasonably tolerant of ordinary mental illness … but a little queezy at the prospect of inmates taking over asylums (or prisons). Needless to say, we feel the same about our country!

As a matter of “belief” and principle, however, we all fully favor “free exercise of religion” as per our country’s First Amendment.

As for “purification after death” I personally choose cremation. Signed my contract last month with the Neptune Society!n

 

[The Irish Ram]

Catholics believe that the Body of Christ is made up of both the living and those who have passed on. This is based on Christ teaching that God is the God of the living, not the dead (when referring to others who have passed on).

The Apostles were Jews, and Jews of that time prayed for those who had passed on.
So, yes, from childhood on, I have prayed for those who have passed on, both for those I knew and did not know. In doing this, I have had three remarkable experiences, so I am a believer and continue praying for the dead. We, and those who have passed on, may be closer to each other than we are aware.

Meri, you pray for the dead. Other "non-protestants" here consult them and ask for favors. There in lies the difference...

 

[The Irish Ram]

Imagining purification/purgatory as something it is not does not make it go away.

Do you honestly believe that Jesus had a stop over at Purgatory on His way to Heaven to drop off those He gathered from Paradise, and continued without them? Where is that found in the Bible? And those He left in Hell? They don't get purgatoried?

 

[Meriweather]

Meri, you pray for the dead. Other "non-protestants" here consult them and ask for favors. There in lies the difference...

Who is asking for favors? People in your denomination? What favors are they asking for?

 

[The Irish Ram]

Who is asking for favors? People in your denomination? What favors are they asking for?

No, people in your denomination. First they lied about it and then admitted it...

 

[Meriweather]

No, people in your denomination.

Oh, you mean Catholics. I thought you might be referencing, Pentecostals, LDS, Anabaptists, etc. who point out their sects are not part of the Protestant Reformation.

First they lied about it and then admitted it...

It is common for Catholics to ask those who have passed on to join them in prayer requests. As members of the Body of Christ, we remember Christ's promise that when two are more are gathered in his name, he hears.

So...are you suggesting that a member of the Body of Christ who has passed on steps away from Christ to grant personal favors to the living? Odd. Never heard of this.