A Liberal's Attempt to Understand the Conservative Mind

[Coloradomtnman]

So, I've noticed that a lot of the arguments between the two ends of the political spectrum are based purely in misunderstandings. I've started this thread to attempt to understand what it is to be a conservative, what it stands for, what it means, etc. I was also inspired to do this because I saw a show on PBS yesterday that got me thinking about Federal spending and waste and just how wasteful governmental spending is.

If you're a conservative and would like to help enlighten this kool-aid drinking, marxist, terrorist-loving, Christian-bashing, spend-happy liberal please answer or comment on the following questions and statements. Now, what I'm looking for here isn't your particular political ideology or philosophy, but the conservative one. So answer for either what the majority of conservative believe or think, or, if it isn't that simple, give me an idea of how conservatives view that particular topic. I'm going to write either a comment that I think is the case and you correct me if I'm wrong or inaccurate, or I'll just ask a question if I'm really unsure as to what conservatives think about that particular topic.

I'm ignorant of many conservative ideas, but I think I know enough to separate social conservatism and fiscal conservatism.

When answering you may want to copy and paste starting from below here, just for clarity:

I'll start with...

Social conservatism:

Do social conservatives think abortion shouldn't be legal, or is it that they think Roe v. Wade should be overturned and states should determine whether to allow abortions or not? Should those states have a referendum to determine the legality of abortions?

Social conservatives think same-sex marriage shouldn't be legal.

Many social conservatives think that homosexuality should be illegal.

Social conservatives want to allow prayer in public schools.

Social conservatives want to allow the teaching of creationism in public schools.

Many social conservatives don't want evolution taught in public schools.

Social conservatives want to keep marijuana illegal.

Social conservatives want stricter sentences for crimes than we have now.

Social conservatives want to deport all illegal immigrants and have stricter illegal immigration laws, stricter legal immigration laws, and more protection of US borders.

Social conservatives want all US citizens to speak the English as the official US language.

Social conservatives think that the government should be better aligned with Christian ideals.

Social conservatives think that US culture should be better aligned with Christian ideals.

Social conservatives tend to think that state universities and colleges are staffed mostly with liberal professors and administration.

Social conservatives think that police are generally good people with a tough job and that excuses the rare occurrences when police may behave overly brutal or when they seem abusive of their authority.

Social conservatives think that democracy is the best system of government for all peoples and all cultures around the world; and if democracy was world-wide there would be fewer wars.

Social conservatives think the war in Iraq is justified.

Social conservatives think the war in Afghanistan is justified.

Social conservatives think that there should be more faith-based initiatives.

Social conservatives think that the Constitution is not a living document.

Social conservatives think that racism is a thing of the past and no longer a salient issue in modern politics.

I'll address Fiscal Conservatism in the next post in this thread.

 

[REVxERIK]

So, I've noticed that a lot of the arguments between the two ends of the political spectrum are based purely in misunderstandings. I've started this thread to attempt to understand what it is to be a conservative, what it stands for, what it means, etc. I was also inspired to do this because I saw a show on PBS yesterday that got me thinking about Federal spending and waste and just how wasteful governmental spending is.

If you're a conservative and would like to help enlighten this kool-aid drinking, marxist, terrorist-loving, Christian-bashing, spend-happy liberal please answer or comment on the following questions and statements. Now, what I'm looking for here isn't your particular political ideology or philosophy, but the conservative one. So answer for either what the majority of conservative believe or think, or, if it isn't that simple, give me an idea of how conservatives view that particular topic. I'm going to write either a comment that I think is the case and you correct me if I'm wrong or inaccurate, or I'll just ask a question if I'm really unsure as to what conservatives think about that particular topic.

I'm ignorant of many conservative ideas, but I think I know enough to separate social conservatism and fiscal conservatism.

When answering you may want to copy and paste starting from below here, just for clarity:

I'll start with...

Social conservatism:

Do social conservatives think abortion shouldn't be legal, or is it that they think Roe v. Wade should be overturned and states should determine whether to allow abortions or not? Should those states have a referendum to determine the legality of abortions?

Social conservatives think same-sex marriage shouldn't be legal.

Many social conservatives think that homosexuality should be illegal.

Social conservatives want to allow prayer in public schools.

Social conservatives want to allow the teaching of creationism in public schools.

Many social conservatives don't want evolution taught in public schools.

Social conservatives want to keep marijuana illegal.

Social conservatives want stricter sentences for crimes than we have now.

Social conservatives want to deport all illegal immigrants and have stricter illegal immigration laws, stricter legal immigration laws, and more protection of US borders.

Social conservatives want all US citizens to speak the English as the official US language.

Social conservatives think that the government should be better aligned with Christian ideals.

Social conservatives think that US culture should be better aligned with Christian ideals.

Social conservatives tend to think that state universities and colleges are staffed mostly with liberal professors and administration.

Social conservatives think that police are generally good people with a tough job and that excuses the rare occurrences when police may behave overly brutal or when they seem abusive of their authority.

Social conservatives think that democracy is the best system of government for all peoples and all cultures around the world; and if democracy was world-wide there would be fewer wars.

Social conservatives think the war in Iraq is justified.

Social conservatives think the war in Afghanistan is justified.

Social conservatives think that there should be more faith-based initiatives.

Social conservatives think that the Constitution is not a living document.

Social conservatives think that racism is a thing of the past and no longer a salient issue in modern politics.

I'll address Fiscal Conservatism in the next post in this thread.

lol you worked hard on this it seems.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Fiscal Conservatism:

Fiscal conservatives think that the federal government and state governments generally overstep their bounds fiscally.

Fiscal conservatives think that income tax isn't supported by the Constitution.

Fiscal conservatives believe in a flat tax.

Fiscal conservative believe capitalism is generally the best economic system for all peoples and cultures.

Fiscal conservatives think there is too much governmental meddling in business and that capitalism works better when its completely unregulated. The market will regulate itself.

Fiscal conservatives think that large corporations run the American economy with good reason: these are the companies which have succeeded and therefore have a right to do whatever they can to increase the bottom line, as long as it doesn't hurt US citizens.

Fiscal conservatives want to privatize Social Security or do away with it altogether.

Fiscal conservatives want to privatize Medicare/Medicaid or do away with it altogether.

Do Fiscal conservatives not want health care reform in any form?

Fiscal conservatives think there shouldn't be a minimum wage: let the market settle on what the minimum wage should be.

Fiscal conservatives think that the economy should be more of a priority than the environment.

Fiscal conservatives think welfare should be discontinued.

Fiscal conservative think that unemployment insurance should be discontiued.

Do fiscal conservatives think all social program spending should be discontinued on the Federal level and that states should handle it i.e. food stamps, welfare, unemployment insurance, etc., or do fiscal conservatives think that all social programs should be discontinued and let non-profits handle those programs with charitable donations?

Fiscal conservatives want to get rid of Affirmative Action because institutional racism and sexism are things of the past and no longer issues in American business.

Fiscal conservatives think we should stop our dependence on foreign oil by drilling here instead.

I know there are more than these issues for social and fiscal consertives, but in the interest of brevity.... If there some issues which I missed that you think are important to conservatives, please feel free to mention them as you are educating this card carrying commie pinko liberal.

By the way, this isn't a bait thread but an honest attempt to understand the conservative point of view.

Thanks!

 

[REVxERIK]

Fiscal Conservatism:

Fiscal conservatives think that the federal government and state governments generally overstep their bounds fiscally.

Fiscal conservatives think that income tax isn't supported by the Constitution.

Fiscal conservatives believe in a flat tax.

Fiscal conservative believe capitalism is generally the best economic system for all peoples and cultures.

Fiscal conservatives think there is too much governmental meddling in business and that capitalism works better when its completely unregulated. The market will regulate itself.

Fiscal conservatives think that large corporations run the American economy with good reason: these are the companies which have succeeded and therefore have a right to do whatever they can to increase the bottom line, as long as it doesn't hurt US citizens.

Fiscal conservatives want to privatize Social Security or do away with it altogether.

Fiscal conservatives want to privatize Medicare/Medicaid or do away with it altogether.

Do Fiscal conservatives not want health care reform in any form?

Fiscal conservatives think there shouldn't be a minimum wage: let the market settle on what the minimum wage should be.

Fiscal conservatives think that the economy should be more of a priority than the environment.

Fiscal conservatives think welfare should be discontinued.

Fiscal conservative think that unemployment insurance should be discontiued.

Do fiscal conservatives think all social program spending should be discontinued on the Federal level and that states should handle it i.e. food stamps, welfare, unemployment insurance, etc., or do fiscal conservatives think that all social programs should be discontinued and let non-profits handle those programs with charitable donations?

Fiscal conservatives want to get rid of Affirmative Action because institutional racism and sexism are things of the past and no longer issues in American business.

Fiscal conservatives think we should stop our dependence on foreign oil by drilling here instead.

I know there are more than these issues for social and fiscal consertives, but in the interest of brevity.... If there some issues which I missed that you think are important to conservatives, please feel free to mention them as you are educating this card carrying commie pinko liberal.

By the way, this isn't a bait thread but an honest attempt to understand the conservative point of view.

Thanks!

even non bait threads will attract some very colorful posts on this board.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

What, no conservatives want to talk about this? You guys can't talk about your political ideologies with a liberal?

You bunch of elitists!

 

[Missourian]

C-man, IMHO this is too much for one thread.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

C-man, IMHO this is too much for one thread.

Well, I guess I can see that. But I didn't know how else to do it. Start fifty threads - one thread for each point?

 

[Big Black Dog]

What, no conservatives want to talk about this? You guys can't talk about your political ideologies with a liberal?

You bunch of elitists!

There you go with the name calling thing that is so much a part of the "lefty liberal mentality. I'm in the waiting room of my family practice doctor waiting while my wife gets her annual physical exam. I'm on the public computer in his waiting room. If I have the time tonight when I get home I would like to address this post. This is a pretty good post coming from you. It deserves some honest attention. I don't have a lot of time now to explain my stand on the issues you listed but maybe so tonight. I'm a conservative - used to be a Republican but have of late turned towards being an Independent because the Republican Party is in the trash right now. I agree with a lot of what you described but certainly not all of it. I'll try to be more specific tonight.

As distasteful as it might sound to you, I strongly recommend you reading Glenn Beck's book, "Common Sense". Politics today is not necessarily geared towards Dems vs Repubs. That is what the Progressives would like for you to believe because it keeps everything in turmoil. Beck explains it all very well and if you read the book it will open your eyes to a lot of things you took for granted before in your life. Well worth the read if you can read it with an open mind. It's less than $9.00 at Walmart.

 

[The Rabbi]

Unfortunately over-simplifying conservative beliefs until they bear little resemblance to the truth isn't calculated to insure decent discussion.
Why don't we discuss liberal beliefs:
Liberals believe the US is the source of most unhappiness and injustice in the world.
Liberals believe that every social problem demands a gov't solution.
Liberals believe that taxation is a privilege, and you're gonna feel real privileged soon.
Liberals believe that traditional families are the source of societal ills, not the answer to them.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Unfortunately over-simplifying conservative beliefs until they bear little resemblance to the truth isn't calculated to insure decent discussion.
Why don't we discuss liberal beliefs:
Liberals believe the US is the source of most unhappiness and injustice in the world.
Liberals believe that every social problem demands a gov't solution.
Liberals believe that taxation is a privilege, and you're gonna feel real privileged soon.
Liberals believe that traditional families are the source of societal ills, not the answer to them.

What was that you said about oversimplification again?

I wrote what I perceived are conservative tenets. I didn't try to oversimplify them, that's just how I perceive them. Which is why I wrote them so someone who knows better can come along and show me what I don't know so that I will know better in the futre.

It isn't a car or a house or health care so it's "ensure" not "insure".

Start another thread if you wish to discuss those perceived ideologies you think liberals believe.

Thanks for contributing to understanding between liberals and conservatives, hack.

 

[REVxERIK]

hmmmmm

 

[Dr.Traveler]

Unfortunately over-simplifying conservative beliefs until they bear little resemblance to the truth isn't calculated to insure decent discussion.
Why don't we discuss liberal beliefs:
Liberals believe the US is the source of most unhappiness and injustice in the world.
Liberals believe that every social problem demands a gov't solution.
Liberals believe that taxation is a privilege, and you're gonna feel real privileged soon.
Liberals believe that traditional families are the source of societal ills, not the answer to them.

Pot meet Kettle.

Accusing the OP of oversimplifying when you yourself are guilty in the same post makes you a laughing stock.

Why not stay on topic, and discuss what Conservatives believe. I've suspected for a while now that most of the folks that think they're Conservative are lost when they aren't on the attack. Prove me wrong. Expound on why folks should be more Conservative. What exactly DO YOU BELIEVE?

I'll add to this discussion: In my interaction with family members, church colleagues, etc that identify themselves as Conservative, one over riding trait you always see is a sense that "Compromise = Weakness". They usually have a "My Way Or The Highway" attitude.

It often strikes me as a pretty short sighted way to view things. Compromises guarantee you accomplish something to address a problem. Stubbornness usually means you accomplish ZERO in politics or life. If you want to go through life without compromising, you'll pretty much always have to act on your own. That appears to be why Conservatives seem to fail on the political scene.

 

[Missourian]

C-man, IMHO this is too much for one thread.

Well, I guess I can see that. But I didn't know how else to do it. Start fifty threads - one thread for each point?

Maybe try them one at a time, starting with the one you are most interested in.

I would consider myself a social conservative, so we could start with my feelings on abortion, but those threads seem to go downhill fast.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

C-man, IMHO this is too much for one thread.

Well, I guess I can see that. But I didn't know how else to do it. Start fifty threads - one thread for each point?

Maybe try them one at a time, starting with the one you are most interested in.

I would consider myself a social conservative, so we could start with my feelings on abortion, but those threads seem to go downhill fast.

I'd add you could even go for a thread on what does a Social Conservative stand for and hone in from there. The OP has potential to be enlightening if some Conservatives will expound on things.

 

[bill777]

The straw man.... so elegant. It's so easy to resort to. Unfortunately, it makes you look like a proto-human when you do resort to it. Way to go. dictate the position of the opposition, and then ask for rebuttal. U iz a genius.

 

[Missourian]

I think a good place to start is to understand that many on both sides of our cultural struggle have benevolent intentions.

 

[bill777]

I think a good place to start is that many people on both sides have bad intentions.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

I think a good place to start is to understand that many on both sides of our cultural struggle have benevolent intentions.

True.

Unfortunately the road to.....

 

[Maple]

So, I've noticed that a lot of the arguments between the two ends of the political spectrum are based purely in misunderstandings. I've started this thread to attempt to understand what it is to be a conservative, what it stands for, what it means, etc. I was also inspired to do this because I saw a show on PBS yesterday that got me thinking about Federal spending and waste and just how wasteful governmental spending is.

If you're a conservative and would like to help enlighten this kool-aid drinking, marxist, terrorist-loving, Christian-bashing, spend-happy liberal please answer or comment on the following questions and statements. Now, what I'm looking for here isn't your particular political ideology or philosophy, but the conservative one. So answer for either what the majority of conservative believe or think, or, if it isn't that simple, give me an idea of how conservatives view that particular topic. I'm going to write either a comment that I think is the case and you correct me if I'm wrong or inaccurate, or I'll just ask a question if I'm really unsure as to what conservatives think about that particular topic.

I'm ignorant of many conservative ideas, but I think I know enough to separate social conservatism and fiscal conservatism.

When answering you may want to copy and paste starting from below here, just for clarity:

I'll start with...

Social conservatism:

Do social conservatives think abortion shouldn't be legal, or is it that they think Roe v. Wade should be overturned and states should determine whether to allow abortions or not? Should those states have a referendum to determine the legality of abortions?

Social conservatives think same-sex marriage shouldn't be legal. That's correct, we beleive it should be between a man and a woman.

Many social conservatives think that homosexuality should be illegal. I certainly don't, what people do or the choices they make are there's and there's alone.

Social conservatives want to allow prayer in public schools. That would be nice, but not to force it on someone who does not want to participate.

Social conservatives want to allow the teaching of creationism in public schools. Do you mean the bIble?

Many social conservatives don't want evolution taught in public schools. That's fine with me as I believe that the more you study evolution the more it becomes clear that we do not descend from Apes.

Social conservatives want to keep marijuana illegal. I do, I think that should we legalize it, people will just do harder and harder drugs. Marijauna kind of takes the ambition and drive out of people to do better, I have seen this with friends personally.

Social conservatives want stricter sentences for crimes than we have now. Absolutely, child molestors should never be let out of jail, they are very sick people and the recindivism rate is over 90% on these people. You create more innocent victims by letting them out.

Social conservatives want to deport all illegal immigrants and have stricter illegal immigration laws, stricter legal immigration laws, and more protection of US borders.
I do not want to deport all illegals, but yes we need to enforce our immigration laws and protect our borders.

Social conservatives want all US citizens to speak the English as the official US language.
That would be nice, because english is the dominate language, but I also believe that americans are extremely difficient in language, we need to be learning other languages.
Comprende'?

Social conservatives think that the government should be better aligned with Christian ideals. Our country was founded on Judeo Christian beliefs. But there is a separation of church and state and I stand behind that.

Social conservatives think that US culture should be better aligned with Christian ideals.
I don't know, I believe that there is a morality in most religions and I believe that it is valuable.

Social conservatives tend to think that state universities and colleges are staffed mostly with liberal professors and administration. They are, that has been proven.

Social conservatives think that police are generally good people with a tough job and that excuses the rare occurrences when police may behave overly brutal or when they seem abusive of their authority. I think most are good people. Yes.

Social conservatives think that democracy is the best system of government for all peoples and all cultures around the world; and if democracy was world-wide there would be fewer wars. Not necessarily, I don't for one minute think that we will ever get the middle east to a democracy. That's a mistake.

Social conservatives think the war in Iraq is justified. Yes, had Hussein just let the weapon's people in, there would have been no war. The last Presidents for the last 20 years have stated that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction, he did, he used them on the Iranians. After 9-11 thinking this, would you not be worried about the transfer of these weapons to terrorists. BTW, they did find WMD in Iraq, just not in the quantities that everyone expected.

Social conservatives think the war in Afghanistan is justified. Yes, Osama Bin Lauden and the launch site of 9-11/

Social conservatives think that there should be more faith-based initiatives.Yes, they are great organizations, they do alot of good for the poor, I volunteer at one of them.

Social conservatives think that the Constitution is not a living document. It is not breathing and it has no heartbeat, but that is what our country is founded on, that's also why this country has been so successful, that's why immigrants from all over the world come here and stay here.

Social conservatives think that racism is a thing of the past and no longer a salient issue in modern politics. Yes, explan the Obama win, if racism is such a problem.

I'll address Fiscal Conservatism in the next post in this thread.

I can hardly wait for the fiscal stuff.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Social conservatism:

Do social conservatives think abortion shouldn't be legal, or is it that they think Roe v. Wade should be overturned and states should determine whether to allow abortions or not? Should those states have a referendum to determine the legality of abortions?

a. Some think (my guess about 25%-30%) that abortion is murder and murder should not be legal. This stems from their closely held belief that life begins at conception. This contra to the previously held belief by conservatives that there was a "quickening," or a moment when the the fetus received a soul, and that was when life began. Science has shown that the fetus looks like a baby at a very early stage so you can blame this one on scientific advance.

b. Yes, it is a commonly held view by conservatives that Roe is bad law. Few conservative lawyers would hold the postion that Roe should be overturned though. It is a more typical legal thought that Griswold v. Connecticut is the offending case that should be overturned. Roe relies on Griswold and would be overturned de facto if Griswold were overturned. The reason conservatives believe that Griswold is bad law is because the SCOTUS made up a new fundamental right (the right to privacy) that is nowhere to be found in the actual text of the Constitution. The problem with this is that the unwritten right to privacy can come into tension with the written rights of the bill of rights. If they had not "created" a new right, then it would be no contest, the written right would trump the unwritten "desire." Now in abortion clinic protest trials the right to privacy comes in conflict with the right to assembly and free speech. Which should win?

c. Yes, conservatives generally believe that it is better for the states to decide issues such as abortion. I don't think there is any collective opinion on the mechanism at the state so long as it is legislative and democratic in charater rather than oligarchic and judicial.

Social conservatives think same-sex marriage shouldn't be legal.

I believe this is a true statement. They believe a marriage should be between a man and a woman.

(My personal position on this is that the state does not have the right to decide what "marriage" is. The concept of marriage is religious not civil. Government "recognized" the religious institution of marriage and its common strictures and codified some, but they did not create it. Since it was not created by government, it cannot be changed by government. That doesn't mean it cannot create something else and say "all rights had by married people are to be enjoyed by those who are (fill in the blank civil unions et al.)

Many social conservatives think that homosexuality should be illegal.

I don't think this is a widely held position. There is probably a less than 20% (maybe less then 10%) that think something like this.

Social conservatives want to allow prayer in public schools.

This probably a fair statement. Although the end is probably something less than liberals like to demonize it to be. One wonders why people are forbidden to do something as innocuous as praying. (This coming from a pagan, not a christian).

Social conservatives want to allow the teaching of creationism in public schools.

I believe this is advocated by maybe half of the conservatives. Mostly just in those circles that are strongly socially conservative. Usually it is advocated that "intelligent design" be taught as a possible alternative to Darwin's theory of evolution. Some liberals seem to be strongly into turning it into an iron law of evolution. The science is the science and if science cannot prove it, it is a theory and only a theory. A stand that attempts to make more of it than it is is itself engaging in religion.

Many social conservatives don't want evolution taught in public schools.

I haven't heard that one before.

Social conservatives want to keep marijuana illegal.

I can't imagine social conservatives advocating drug use. So they would probably be against any intoxicants including alcohol, generally. But, they would probably tolerate alcohol use.

Social conservatives want stricter sentences for crimes than we have now.

A good example of what social conservatives want with respect to criminal punishment can be found in Virginia. We've enacted truth in sentencing laws. If you send someone away for 20 years, he serves no less than 18.5 years. The issue was that juries were confused by the old sentencing rules that allowed criminals to get out after only serving a fraction of their sentence.

Project Exile - you commit a crime with a gun, you get an automatically harsher sentence. This is the answer to gun control advocates. You don't need to control guns, you need to control criminals who use guns. It has had a tremendous effect in reducing gun crime in VA.

Three strikes (applied to violent crime) - you commit three violent crime, you go to jail for life.

Death penalty - we have it and we use it. It doesn't take 25 years on death row for us to do it either. The DC Sniper is set for lethal injection Nov. 10th. That's 8 years after the crimes he commited. That's about average.

Social conservatives want to deport all illegal immigrants and have stricter illegal immigration laws, stricter legal immigration laws, and more protection of US borders.

In a perfect world, yes the illegals would be deported, but that's the not the big point. In the end, how current illegals are dealt with is probably negotiable based on the practicalities of the situation. The larger point is that the law must be enforced. Measures must be taken to enforce the border and prevent illegal immigration by anyone. The security and economic considerations cannot be overstated. It is malfeasance to fail to take strong measures to prevent unlawful immigration.

Note, this applies only to illegal immigration. Have as much legal immigration as makes sense understanding the economic impact on low wage earners and the social service provision requirements. Probably a balanced low income, to skilled high income immigration policy is best for the economy to allow as many immigrants as possible. But, it can only be rational once there is control over the border. Until that happens, you don't know what your immigration policy is.

Social conservatives want all US citizens to speak the English as the official US language.

I guess. It really only makes sense for the government not to spend the excessive amount of resources to give those who are not interested in joining this country enough that they learn the language the capability enjoy the benefits without putting in some effort. I'd put this in the social and fiscal categories.

Social conservatives think that the government should be better aligned with Christian ideals.

Ideals? Maybe ideals. I'd have to hear you expand on what you mean by this question.

Social conservatives think that US culture should be better aligned with Christian ideals.

I think by definition. Since the development of the United States was based on the Judeo-Christian ethic and conservatives stand for incremental change, one would assume that the socially conservative position would be that the culture of the US should more closely resemble the Judeo-Christian ethics that existed prior to the counter-culture "revolution."

Social conservatives tend to think that state universities and colleges are staffed mostly with liberal professors and administration.

This isn't really up for question. During my 7 years of involvement on college campi in the US, I found zero professors who self-identified as Republican or Conservative. Now, one might understand that at American University in DC, but not at the University of Nebraska at Omaha. There may be conservative professors someplace, but if there are, they are in bunkers, surrounded and outnumbered.

Social conservatives think that police are generally good people with a tough job and that excuses the rare occurrences when police may behave overly brutal or when they seem abusive of their authority.

Not really. The first part of the statement is true. The second part, a bit over the top. I would say that in those episodes that involve "police abuse of power" that conservatives are more apt to want to hear the other side (from the police) because they hold out the possibility that there might have been some mitigating circumstance. (Much as the liberal does for a criminal).

But, absent some mitigating factor, I think the conservative is just as willing to put away bad cops, and probably in harsher circumstances, than the liberal who jumps to the conclusion of police guilt.

Social conservatives think that democracy is the best system of government for all peoples and all cultures around the world; and if democracy was world-wide there would be fewer wars.

Now we play Seasame Street. Which of these things is not like the others. This is a neo-conservative position. As we should all know by now, the neo-cons developed out of disillusioned communists and socialists of the 1940s. Mr. Kristol describe Neo-cons as liberals mugged by reality. So, you notice a distinctly unconservative mentality behind neo-conservative thought. (Or, at least you should).

While I would agree that allowing the governed a strong voice in their governance is probably the best way (democracy) I'd listen to the argument for something else. I do believe that arguments that say one or another race/culture is not able to have democracy is an inherently racist position.

Social conservatives think the war in Iraq is justified.

Again, I think this a neo-con position.

My position is that in the face of what was occurring in 2002, there were a set of bad choices. I also think that among these bad choices, the neo-cons made the choice to depose Saddam look less bad than it really was. The fact was that the coalition that was keeping Saddam in check was shaking apart. Between the corruption in the oil for food program, we now know about, and the efforts by the French and others to get around the sanctions to the forthright statements by several of the allies that continued efforts to enforce the sanctions would not be forthcoming in 2003 and beyond, it was clear that either the US would be left holding a hole-ridden bag or it could go to war.

Layered upon this was the question about how to engage a "hot war" with the Jihadist elements in the Muslim world. We clearly understood that these elements were mobile as the wars first in Afghanistan, later in Bosnia etc., showed that Jihadis will travel the world (our at least that corner of it) to engage their enemies. Then, layered on top of that was the geo-political question of dividing Iran from Syria and neutralizing Iraq as a bad actor in the process. (The neo-cons also added the possibility of turning Iraq into a successful democracy and putting pressure on the surrounding countries, but that is a 50 year proposition and too much to consider here).

So, while it was poorly executed, at least in part, the war was not an entirely bad idea. It was a selection from a list of bad choices. Taken over a 20 year period, I'm unsure which course would be more expensive.

Social conservatives think the war in Afghanistan is justified.

Only radicals think this war is unjust. The question is the war's length. This is a tough tactical and strategic question. No large army has ever been successful in Afghanistan. Increasing troop strength is a double edged sword to say the least. But, that doesn't aswer the justification question.

A conservative would justify this war by saying that the US has the right to self-defense. We were attacked by the inhabitants of that corner of the world and we have the right to counter-attack if the government there is not willing or able to exert the control over the people in the confines of their nation-state. We have done so and are continuing to execute that mission. The justification, nor the mission, has changed.

Social conservatives think that there should be more faith-based initiatives.

Don't know.

Social conservatives think that the Constitution is not a living document.

Documents do not live, people do. The Constitution was written in a sufficiently general format that general functions and characters of governance were defined for the federal government. While there is a great leap in technology between wagons and sailing ships and jet planes and long haul truckers, the basic and fundemental principles in Article I, Section 8 clearly provide for both of these eventualities and for Congress' proper authority to do so.

Where people have difficulty is when they are trying to do something that the Constitution does not allow and feel constrained. Well, that's because you shouldn't be fucking doing that.....how bout that?

Now, if everyone thinks it's a good idea for government to do that particular bit of business, well the founders were geniuses they provided an amendment process to add that puppy right in there. In fact, we've done so 27 times. Now, we've been pretty lazy over the last few decades about having any amendments. My guess is because we've just let the oligarchical SCOTUS amend the Constitution for us. A VERY DANGEROUS path.

Social conservatives think that racism is a thing of the past and no longer a salient issue in modern politics.

I think that is a bit of a stretch. The point conservatives are trying to make here is that there was institutional racism throughout America. We have made significant progress in wringing that racism from our systems. This needs to be recognized. The people saying it is just as bad or worse than it was in 1970 are making asses of themselves.

Everyone understands that racism still exists. But the conservatives will point out that it is no longer institutionally based. So, the policy position is that mechanisms that were put in place to wring racism from the system need to be re-examined to determine whether they are designed to meet the needs of today. Does it get at those areas where racism still exists.

(I'll tell a story here. I live in the DC area. I work with 99.6% black co-workers. I went to Houston a couple of years ago, looking at moving down there. We went to a real estate agent to look at areas to move. Here, we encountered racism like we were not used seeing. This guy was definitely redlining. You want to look here and here, but I don't think you would be comfortable looking in this area or that one. Our jaws nearly hit the table. You would never see anything like that out here.) So yes, racism exists, but it isn't everywhere and we have made significant progress. It's not that it isn't an issue, but it's not the same issue it once was.