Debate Now A Hard Look at the MAGA Movement

[Flopper]

Then you dont live in the real world skippy and must be a paid poster.

Interest on debt is over 600 Billion a year retard. With a 30 trillion dollar economy

That is only about 2% of the US GDP. And 2/3 of the debt is owed to ourselves.

 

[Flopper]

That is only about 2% of the US GDP. And 2/3 of the debt is owed to ourselves.

Neither party is going to reduce the debt. Today, they can not do so without massive cuts in programs that their constituents depend on or big tax increases.. The only president in the last hundred years to reduce the deficit was Bill Clinton.

 

[JoeB131]

On the official stage, I'd say somewhat, but I think the crux has to do with the large rise in self-loathing American leftists who brand America as an evil, racist, occupying force. These people, who seem to actually despise America, have peddled their influence to the forefront of one of the two major parties in America. It's mainstream to think America is a majority of bad on your side of the aisle. This message is projected onto the populace by leftist mainstream media, social media algorithms, and via indoctrinating impressionable youth in schools and colleges across the nation. MAGA wants to break the bottleneck of influence the left has.

Loving your country does not mean that it is above criticism. Our foreign policy is frequently bad because it doesn't reflect the interest of American people, it's how we get into long wars with people on the other side of the planet who pose no threat to us (Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam.) We keep making the same mistakes and never learning our lessons!

Protecting borders, encouraging success (not victimhood or demonizing it), positivity, appreciation for the nation and our history, rejecting the return of racism in the Democrat party (Identity politics).

Hmm...yeah, can't have them brown people moving in here.

And last time I checked, Greed was considered a sin in Christianity. That's certainly what Sister Mary Psycho taught us in Catholic school. When did it become a virtue?

The only people I see trying to return to racism are the Republicans, which is why you see Swastikas and Confederate Flags at Trump rallies.

 

[surada]

On the official stage, I'd say somewhat, but I think the crux has to do with the large rise in self-loathing American leftists who brand America as an evil, racist, occupying force. These people, who seem to actually despise America, have peddled their influence to the forefront of one of the two major parties in America. It's mainstream to think America is a majority of bad on your side of the aisle. This message is projected onto the populace by leftist mainstream media, social media algorithms, and via indoctrinating impressionable youth in schools and colleges across the nation. MAGA wants to break the bottleneck of influence the left has.

Protecting borders, encouraging success (not victimhood or demonizing it), positivity, appreciation for the nation and our history, rejecting the return of racism in the Democrat party (Identity politics).

Trump never stops telling us that America is failing. What are you talking about? Trump has been whining about being a victim for 40 years. He has always taken revenge on people he perceived as disloyal to him.

 

[surada]

Loving your country does not mean that it is above criticism. Our foreign policy is frequently bad because it doesn't reflect the interest of American people, it's how we get into long wars with people on the other side of the planet who pose no threat to us (Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam.) We keep making the same mistakes and never learning our lessons!





Hmm...yeah, can't have them brown people moving in here.

And last time I checked, Greed was considered a sin in Christianity. That's certainly what Sister Mary Psycho taught us in Catholic school. When did it become a virtue?

The only people I see trying to return to racism are the Republicans, which is why you see Swastikas and Confederate Flags at Trump rallies.

Foreign policy has been ignorant since 1950... Or, it's just about selling weapons.

 

[Flopper]

On the official stage, I'd say somewhat, but I think the crux has to do with the large rise in self-loathing American leftists who brand America as an evil, racist, occupying force. These people, who seem to actually despise America, have peddled their influence to the forefront of one of the two major parties in America. It's mainstream to think America is a majority of bad on your side of the aisle. This message is projected onto the populace by leftist mainstream media, social media algorithms, and via indoctrinating impressionable youth in schools and colleges across the nation. MAGA wants to break the bottleneck of influence the left has.

Protecting borders, encouraging success (not victimhood or demonizing it), positivity, appreciation for the nation and our history, rejecting the return of racism in the Democrat party (Identity politics).

I've worked to elect various democrat candidates for years and thus have met many people well to the left of center. During that time, I do not believe that I have met anyone who would qualify as a self-loathing American leftist who brands America as an evil, racist, occupying force. Since there are extremist on both sides I am sure they must exist . On the far right we have white supremist such as we saw in Charlotte a few years ago and those who believe that violent attacks on government is an acceptable method of change such as we saw in the Jan 6 attack on the Capital.

However the exceptions do not make the rule. I believe the vast majority of people in this country are neither far left or far right extremists. They believe our country is great and want to see it become greater.

 

[Flopper]

Loving your country does not mean that it is above criticism. Our foreign policy is frequently bad because it doesn't reflect the interest of American people, it's how we get into long wars with people on the other side of the planet who pose no threat to us (Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam.) We keep making the same mistakes and never learning our lessons!





Hmm...yeah, can't have them brown people moving in here.

And last time I checked, Greed was considered a sin in Christianity. That's certainly what Sister Mary Psycho taught us in Catholic school. When did it become a virtue?

The only people I see trying to return to racism are the Republicans, which is why you see Swastikas and Confederate Flags at Trump rallies.

In fact greed is considered one of the 7 deadly sins. Greed which is an intense and all consuming selfish desire for something is not good for the individual nor society. However step greed down a notch to a healthy desire to succeed and that is good for both individuals and society.

 

[Flopper]

Foreign policy has been ignorant since 1950... Or, it's just about selling weapons.

I agree. Foreign Policy to often focuses on the little picture rather than the big picture and proves to be very short sighted. For example After spending billions of dollars to support the Israeli military, the United States, virtually alone in the world, is defending Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s right-wing extremist government, which is waging a campaign of total war and destruction against the Palestinian people, resulting in the deaths of tens of thousand including thousands of children and the starvation of hundreds of thousands more in the Gaza Strip.

What policy makers ignore is the embarrassing question of what happens after the war ends. Are Palestinians going embrace their new life in refugee camps in their war torn homeland ready to embrace a peaceful co-existence with the Jews who killed their parents, children, and destroyed their life. History of the region tells that is not going to happen. We are simply creating new 21st century terrorist groups and reviving old ones.

Modern American foreign policy has not always been short-sighted and destructive. In the wake of World War II, despite the bloodiest war in history, Washington chose to learn the lessons of the punitive post–World War I agreements. Instead of humiliating defeated wartime enemies Germany and Japan, whose countries lay in ruin, the United States led a massive multibillion-dollar economic recovery program and helped convert totalitarian societies into prosperous democracies. Washington spearheaded the founding of the United Nations and the implementation of the Geneva Conventions to prevent the horrors of World War II from ever happening again and to ensure that all countries are held to the same standards on human rights. In the 1960s, President John F. Kennedy launched the Peace Corps to support education, public health, and entrepreneurship around the world, building human connections and advancing local development projects. In this century, Bush launched the President’s Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief, known as PEPFAR, which has saved over 25 million lives, primarily in sub-Saharan Africa, and the President’s Malaria Initiative, which has prevented more than 1.5 billion cases of malaria.

If the goal of foreign policy is to help create a peaceful and prosperous world, the foreign policy establishment needs to fundamentally rethink its assumptions. Spending trillions of dollars on endless wars and defense contracts is not going to address the existential threat of climate change, the likelihood of future pandemics, nor the threat of global war.

 

[leftwinger]

As I read your post, it reminds me of the same rhetoric in presidential campaigns for the last 100 years, Moral Decline, lost of greatness, Less Government, Cleanout Washington, Debt going thru the roof, etc, etc.

Despite all such claims by extremists, America is a great nation and will continue to be one unless the public really believes these claims.

Early on in this thread I knew this black-tounged TDS phony POS would eventually show it’s true full Deep State colors. I was not wrong. Flip Floppin POS never saw a commee arse he won’t smooch. Get off the boards you sick forking mess.

 

[BackAgain]

First let's look's at what MAGA is?
It is a political movement that emerged in the United States during the 2016 presidential campaign of its putative leader, Donald Trump. Its name is derived from Trump’s 2016 campaign slogan “Make America Great Again,” which became a rallying cry for many Trump supporters during his candidacy, presidency (2017–21), and beyond.

MAGA movement | Meaning, Beliefs, Origins, Donald Trump, & Facts | Britannica

The MAGA movement is a nativist political movement that emerged in the United States during the 2016 presidential campaign of its putative leader, Donald Trump. Its name is derived from Trump’s 2016 campaign slogan “Make America Great Again,” which became a rallying cry for many Trump supporters.

www.britannica.com

The MAGA movement (often referred to simply as MAGA, or Make America Great Again), was founded on the belief that the United States was once a “great” country but has lost this status owing to foreign influence, both within its borders (via immigration and multiculturalism) and without (via globalization, or the increased integration of multiple national economies).

1. Is it true that America has lost it's status as a great country?

Your premise is incorrect. The claim is NOT that America is not great. It is, of areas, that America was unquestionably great but has lost its edge.

It’s akin to the “more perfect Union” line. We all accept it for what it is intended to convey even though it makes no literal sense.

2. What policies and legislation does the MAGA movement claim should be implemented?

Come on. Obviously, it calls for making illegal immigration both actually illegal and far more difficult. It calls for reducing the massive size and scope of our federal government. That includes getting a hold on and strangling our otherwise and heretofore unaccountable bureaucracy. It includes measuring proposed laws on how it affects primarily America and her people.

3. Assuming America is no longer a great country, will these policies work to restore America to it's former greatness?

We are a great country. Again, your working promise is wrong.

 

[Flopper]

Your premise is incorrect. The claim is NOT that America is not great. It is, of areas, that America was unquestionably great but has lost its edge.

It’s akin to the “more perfect Union” line. We all accept it for what it is intended to convey even though it makes no literal sense.

Come on. Obviously, it calls for making illegal immigration both actually illegal and far more difficult. It calls for reducing the massive size and scope of our federal government. That includes getting a hold on and strangling our otherwise and heretofore unaccountable bureaucracy. It includes measuring proposed laws on how it affects primarily America and her people.

We are a great country. Again, your working promise is wrong.

If America is already a great country, you can not make it great again if it is already great.

The purpose of the slogan is to convince voters that America has lost it's greatness. Trump rhetoric takes it to the next level. Our nation has not just lost it's greatness but is being destroy by the democrats as I speak. Listening to Trump you have to wonder whether the nation will survive till the elections. Trump has one of the most effective campaigns I have seen in a long time. Although it is based on lies and misinformation it works quite well and that is what's important to him.

No president in the last 50 years has been able to fix the illegal immigration problem including Trump. Congress has updated immigration law 4 times. Trump had his chance to change the laws in his first two years in office when Republicans controlled congress. There is no reason to think that he would do any better today.

 

[eagle1462010]

If America is already a great country, you can not make it great again if it is already great.

The purpose of the slogan is to convince voters that America has lost it's greatness. Trump rhetoric takes it to the next level. Our nation has not just lost it's greatness but is being destroy by the democrats as I speak. Listening to Trump you have to wonder whether the nation will survive till the elections. Trump has one of the most effective campaigns I have seen in a long time. Although it is based on lies and misinformation it works quite well and that is what's important to him.

No president in the last 50 years has been able to fix the illegal immigration problem including Trump. Congress has updated immigration law 4 times. Trump had his chance to change the laws in his first two years in office when Republicans controlled congress. There is no reason to think that he would do any better today.

That is because Corrupt Congress doesnt want to

If they did it would be closedin days

 

[BackAgain]

If America is already a great country, you can not make it great again if it is already great.

The purpose of the slogan is to convince voters that America has lost it's greatness. Trump rhetoric takes it to the next level. Our nation has not just lost it's greatness but is being destroy by the democrats as I speak. Listening to Trump you have to wonder whether the nation will survive till the elections. Trump has one of the most effective campaigns I have seen in a long time. Although it is based on lies and misinformation it works quite well and that is what's important to him.

No president in the last 50 years has been able to fix the illegal immigration problem including Trump. Congress has updated immigration law 4 times. Trump had his chance to change the laws in his first two years in office when Republicans controlled congress. There is no reason to think that he would do any better today.

If America is great you can make it great again assuming it has lost its edge. Exactly akin to a “more perfect union.”

I’m not answering your question just to argue about our respective points of view.
You don’t agree with me. That’s fine. I am similarly not obliged to agree with you.

 

[Flopper]

Your premise is incorrect. The claim is NOT that America is not great. It is, of areas, that America was unquestionably great but has lost its edge.

It’s akin to the “more perfect Union” line. We all accept it for what it is intended to convey even though it makes no literal sense.

Come on. Obviously, it calls for making illegal immigration both actually illegal and far more difficult. It calls for reducing the massive size and scope of our federal government. That includes getting a hold on and strangling our otherwise and heretofore unaccountable bureaucracy. It includes measuring proposed laws on how it affects primarily America and her people.

We are a great country. Again, your working promise is wrong.

If Trump believes we are a great nations then why didn't he recognize this with a slogan, such as "Make America Greater." I think we all know why. Trump's campaign is based on convincing voters that America is a failing nation, a nation whose greatness lies in the past and it's all due to the democrats.

 

[HikerGuy83]

If Trump believes we are a great nations then why didn't he recognize this with a slogan, such as "Make America Greater." I think we all know why. Trump's campaign is based on convincing voters that America is a failing nation, a nation whose greatness lies in the past and it's all due to the democrats.

I think you have it backwards.

Long before Trump there were many who felt America was "slipping". He gave them voice.

They came first.

 

[BackAgain]

If Trump believes we are a great nations then why didn't he recognize this with a slogan, such as "Make America Greater."

If the founders and framers thought we had a perfect union, why did they seek a “more perfect union?”

You’re quibbling about a mere turn of phrase.

Give it up.

I think we all know why.

Apparently, you don’t.

Trump's campaign is based on convincing voters that America is a failing nation,

Nope. But he is concerned that we have lost our edge. And he seeks to get it back.

a nation whose greatness lies in the past and it's all due to the democrats.

Our greatness is both historic and better is yet to come. But our recent refusal to abide by our nation’s credo is largely the responsibility of the Democraps.

 

[Flopper]

Probably the most important element in MAGA is controlling illegal immigration, yet he has not explained how he will do this without violating our laws and the constriction. He has emphasized his mass deportation but very little about stopping illegal entry.

For example:
Turmp claims that he will deport 15 to 20 illegal immigrants in the country. The number is of course exaggerated but that is not my point. Both Citizens and Non-Citizens are guaranteed Due Process by the 5th and 14th amendment. Essentially what that means is the government can't do mass deportation as Trump pictured to his followers. Each person has the right to their day in court and that court will be immigration court unless the state has evidence that the person actually entered the country illegally.

Since being in the country without documentation is not a crime it has to go through the immigration court system. That will allow the person to claim asylum. If the person passes the initial test which is not very hard, the person has to be detained until an immigration officer investigates the claim. That can take 2 to 6 months. If the officer believes the person has a case for asylum a court date is set which will be over a year. If the claim is denied, the person can challenge the decision which would of course take months.

Even if the person does not claim asylum, there are many other legal routes to remain in the US which include family hardship, time to search for documentation, applications for correction of status, etc, etc.

Under the constitutional and current laws, no one reading this would be alive to see the end of the Trump deportation.

What happen to th great beautiful wall? I have heard no comment about the wall, however he does have a new plan to protect the United States. I wonder if it will keep illegal aliens out. It sounds like it might keep space aliens out.

"In my next term, we will build a great Iron Dome over our country, a dome like has never seen before, a state -of-the-art missile defense shield that will be entirely built in America," Trump said at a June rally in Wisconsin as the crowd applauded. "We're going to build the greatest dome of them all," I guess this will be a replacement for the great beautiful wall.

 

[Mac-7]

Probably the most important element in MAGA is controlling illegal immigration, yet he has not explained how he will do this without violating our laws and the constriction. He has emphasized his mass deportation but very little about stopping illegal entry.

Stopping illegal entry is the reason for the wall along with other ideas

 

[Flopper]

Probably the most important element in MAGA is controlling illegal immigration, yet he has not explained how he will do this without violating our laws and the constriction. He has emphasized his mass deportation but very little about stopping illegal entry.

For example:
Turmp claims that he will deport 15 to 20 illegal immigrants in the country. The number is of course is exaggerated but that is not my point. Both Citizens and Non-Citizens are guaranteed Due Process by the 5th and 14th amendment. Essentially what that means is the government can't do mass deportation as Trump pictured to his followers. Each person has the right to their day in court and that court will be immigration court unless the state has evidence that the person actually entered the country illegally.

Since being in the country without documentation is not a crime it has to go through the immigration court system. That will allow the person to claim asylum. If the person passes the initial test which is not very hard, the person has to be detained until an immigration officer investigates the claim. That can take 2 to 6 months. If the officer believes the person has a case for asylum a court date is set which will be over a year. If the claim is denied, the person can challenge the decision which would of course take months.

Even if the person does not claim asylum, there are many other legal routes to remain in the US which include family hardship, time to search for documentation, applications for correction of status, etc, etc.

Under the constitutional and current laws, no one reading this would be alive to see the end of the Trump deportation.

What happen to the great beautiful wall? I have heard no comment about the wall, however he does have a new plan to protect the United States. I wonder if it will keep illegal aliens out. It sounds like it might keep space aliens out.

"In my next term, we will build a great Iron Dome over our country, a dome like has never seen before, a state -of-the-art missile defense shield that will be entirely built in America," Trump said at a June rally in Wisconsin as the crowd applauded. "We're going to build the greatest dome of them all,

It's now GOP policy to build a US Iron Dome. Here's what Trump's plan could mean.

President Trump has made it official GOP policy to build an Iron Dome missile shield for the US. The military says it's not something it needs.

abcnews.go.com

 

[Flopper]

Stopping illegal entry is the reason for the wall along with other ideas

It seems to me the best way to stop illegal immigration is to stop them from coming. We spend over 150 billion a year trying to stop them at the border so it seems like it might be worth while to try another approach.

• Require that applications for asylum be filed with US embassies and consultants, not at the US border. The first test for asylum should be done there.
• Work with Mexico to screen crossing of Mexican Guatemalan border.
• Change the admission policy to make it possible for people from central American countries to immigrate to the US. Today, for most people from Central American , there is no legal way of entering the US. It is not that the waiting list is too long. There is no list.