"A free thinker is Satan's slave"

[ThinkCritically]

Sorry, but there are Christians on here who say that all Christians are the same.

According to them, all that's required is to be "saved".

I would agree with them that salvation is everything, but how that is done requires a lot of soul searching. One man's interpretation of salvation is different than the next and unless you actively pursue that answer, you are at risk.

The bible puts it quite clearly, "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'"

This verse is meant for everyone, but I find it especially true for fire and brimstone christians.

 

[koshergrl]

Maybe...

Or the Catholic Church.

It is fairly ambiguous.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Sorry, but there are Christians on here who say that all Christians are the same.

According to them, all that's required is to be "saved".

I would agree with them that salvation is everything, but how that is done requires a lot of soul searching. One man's interpretation of salvation is different than the next and unless you actively pursue that answer, you are at risk.

The bible puts it quite clearly, "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'"

This verse is meant for everyone, but I find it especially true for fire and brimstone christians.

Actually, I think it's true for the large majority of Christians, because according to what Yeshua taught, they sure don't follow His teachings much.

Wanna talk about the bigotry of Christians?

 

[koshergrl]

I find it fairly amazing that someone who claims to be a Taoist, who calls Christ by the name of Yeshua, and portrays himself as some sort of sophisticated biblical scholar (albeit laughably) is the same person who sends female usmb posters vile and disgusting pms and admits to hitting women...

You sure you are up to a discussion about hypocrisy?

 

[ThinkCritically]

Actually, I think it's true for the large majority of Christians, because according to what Yeshua taught, they sure don't follow His teachings much.

Wanna talk about the bigotry of Christians?

No doubt, and it hurts to think about because so many build up walls agains Yeshua, because of the bigotry of so many "Christians".

It is easy to stereotype, especially since the stereotype holds so true, but remember if you know the difference between Yeshua following christians and hypocritical christians, and you continue to lump them together in your speech and thoughts.... then you are only fooling yourself and everyone else around you.

 

[ABikerSailor]

I find it fairly amazing that someone who claims to be a Taoist, who calls Christ by the name of Yeshua, and portrays himself as some sort of sophisticated biblical scholar (albeit laughably) is the same person who sends female usmb posters vile and disgusting pms and admits to hitting women...

You sure you are up to a discussion about hypocrisy?

Why do I call Christ Yeshua? Simple, because that's His name as He was born with it (remember, He's Jewish). Whenever I went overseas, I told people to call me "Rob", not "Roberto", not "Rober" or any other pronunciation of my name in their language, as my name was given to me in English, and I prefer people to pronounce it properly.

As far as the vile and disgusting pm's? Well, the vileness starts when you neg rep me, so I start by saying the nastiest things I can about you in the neg rep, after telling you the neg rep is being returned.

The vile pm's come from me replying to something vile you said to me about the neg rep I sent you.

As far as never hitting women? Never have except once, and that was when I was attacked by my foster sister (who outweighed me by 30 lbs and was 7 inches taller, as well as several years older than me).

What else ya got Kaiser Twit?

 

[ThinkCritically]

I find it fairly amazing that someone who claims to be a Taoist, who calls Christ by the name of Yeshua, and portrays himself as some sort of sophisticated biblical scholar (albeit laughably) is the same person who sends female usmb posters vile and disgusting pms and admits to hitting women...

You sure you are up to a discussion about hypocrisy?

WHY do you do this koshergrl? "Judge not least ye be judged"

Where do you get off telling these people that they are bad....pick the plank out of your eye...

 

[koshergrl]

Because I know this guy, and he's a puke who sends disgusting pms to women and has admitted on this board to hitting women...in addition to being woefully ignorant of the bible that he's always dragging into his weird discussions....

I hope he goes to heaven. But there's nothing wrong with pointing out exactly who and what he is.

 

[ThinkCritically]

When Jesus was hanging on the cross, with every reason in the world to curse everyone to hell what did he say...."forgive them father for they know not what they do"

This is the part christians forget when they get attacked. All of the sudden they start kicking back, but if you think Jesus dying on the cross means anything at all to you then you will stop judging and start forgiving.

 

[koshergrl]

And a person who sends scary pms to women and hits them is bad. I'm sorry you think that's judgemental. I think you don't understand the scripture if you think it means we aren't allowed to pass judgement on the actions of other people. He can be forgiven and attain heaven next to me and I'm fine with that...but that doesn't mean I'm going to ignore his bad behavior.

Christ didn't remove the man being crucified next to him from his cross and set him free. He allowed the earthly judgement to be carried out....

 

[ThinkCritically]

I think you don't understand the scripture if you think it means we aren't allowed to pass judgement on the actions of other people.

Matthew 7:1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge other, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck fro your brother's eye."

The other one is John 7:53-8:11 which I won't post here cause its to long, but I'm sure we are all familiar with it...Its about Jesus forgiving the woman found guilty of adultery.

Where is the confusion it is right there.

 

[koshergrl]

Oh I forgive him.

That doesn't mean I ignore his depravity, or pretend it's not there.

Nor does it mean I'm not aware of my own shortcomings.

And I'm not proposing he be stoned to death for it.

Jesus also told the woman to sin no more, you know....

And if you read the judge not scripture further...

"Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."

 

[koshergrl]

"But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.
12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked man from among you.”b"

Just saying.

1 Corinthians 5

 

[logical4u]

Again, there is no even comparison. Not humanly possible to make one. You're comparing communities with different aspects to them to other communities.

Money and resources are the most important factors imo. You make anyone desperate enough and they'll kill and steal to feed their family.

This is my point: the "atheists", the "homosexuals" (or any other group that regularly slams Christians) will not start a community of their own. Why do you think that is? There are places where towns are for sale. There are large tracts of land where a group could start their own community (gated or otherwise). Why don't they? Why do they choose to live in family oriented communities (usually largely Christian)? Why do they then feel insulted when a neighbor invites them to "fellowship"? They chose to live in a place where the beliefs of the majority of the people are Christian?

How many of those same people would choose to live in a "muslim community" and then mock and ridicule the muslim faith?

Your point is why don't atheists or homosexuals or whatever other groups you don't like here start communities of their own? Why should they? Just because someone shares a lack of belief, or sexual orientation, doesn't mean you want to live around them. This is obviously true of Christians as well. Why don't they buy a town or start a community? Perhaps most are either happy enough where they are, or not part of any large groups that could do such a thing, etc. You make it out as though atheists generally segregate themselves from the rest of the population, or homosexuals do, or the other groups you consider Christian bashers. I think that's a misrepresentation of reality. While certainly atheist and homosexual groups do exist, I question whether the majority of people who fit those categories are part of said groups, and I question whether they consider isolating themselves from people outside those groups a good thing.

As far as people from these groups you dislike living in largely Christian areas, aren't MOST parts of the country largely Christian? If somewhere from 70-80% of Americans self-identify as Christian (I've seen multiple polls that put the number somewhere in that area), wouldn't it, in fact, be hard to find places that are not made up of mostly Christians? So, the idea that these Christian bashers are specifically going to Christian neighborhoods seems ridiculous.

There are probably few people who would argue that there are admirable traits to Christianity. It may even be that Christians are better able to get along in a society than any others. It is a very difficult hypothesis to prove, if it isn't impossible to do so. There are simply too many variables involved in what makes a good nation, even a good community.

I was responding to a person claiming that Christians were too pushy for them. They seem to think the Christians should just be quiet and accept that other people should make their decisions for them. I was pointing out that if these other ways were soooo great, why didn't they start a community on their own.

It figures that instead of trying to understand the point (that these people find Christians necessary to their way of life), you want to tell me how I feel about them. Please, stay focused: if the Christian way of life is sooo offensive to people that do not agree with those beliefs, settle in a place where Christians are not the largest part of the population.

Your last paragraph demonstrated that somewhere down inside that you (like most people that bash and mock Christians?) understand that there are a huge amount of benefits to be gained from living in a Christian community. I was hoping that those that want Christians to be silent would see that on their own. Maybe, it will help that you pointed it out to us.

 

[logical4u]

Quite obviously, he's implying christians live more wholesome lives than everyone else solely because of their religion. He's implying you're more likely to be a criminal if you aren't a christian, you're less likely to be prosperous and the community is less likely to have nice stuff in it.

There was already a thread made about less religious countries and how happy the people in the countries are, what could be more important than people being happy?

Logical4u is a loud, proud and outspoken bigot and has shown it in multiple posts on this thread. If I said a christian community was going to have a higher crime rate because it was christian (which i'd never stoop to), you'd call me a bigot and appropriately so.

Another coward on the experiment? What's the matter, don't think your "groups" can pull it off?

Lol you're doing a good job. Challenge me to do an impossible experiment, then call me a coward for not pulling off the impossible experiment. You're covered on all grounds!

No, it is not an impossible experiment. You could advertise to start a "non-Christian" (or what ever group you wanted to use) neighborhood or subdivision. You could put up signs asking Christians not to share their beliefs there or solicit. You could do monuments with sayings that you believe. Have a common area, and welcome the neighborhood to spend time together. See how it works out, will it grow and expand, or will people sell out and move?

 

[logical4u]

My whole argument might be summed up as this....There are old testament christians (the ones that dragon calls traditional or fundamentalist, whatever you want to call it, I think we all know what it is), and there are new testament christians, who follow the new way that was established by Jesus (grace). The Old testament is there as a historical reference to give context to the coming of Jesus, but Jesus broke the sabbath, so that we could get over our dogmatic ways.

Yeshua "broke" with the laws of men, what He said were motions rather than understanding the reason and doing it to honor the Father.

 

[logical4u]

Ummmm...........hate to tell you, but the first 5 books of the Bible are what the Jews referred to as the Torah, and the rest of the OT is simply a history of the Jewish people.

Your "OT Christians" would actually be Jews.

You are right the "OT Christians" are essentially following Judaism (maybe that is why so many of them associate themselves with the jews so much). But any christian that doesn't follow the teaching of Jesus first and foremost is fooled and is essentially spreading OT ideas, the same OT ideas that Jesus came to brake down.

So, because the Jews don't recognize Jesus as the Messiah, that means they're all going to hell?

Really?

Because I seem to remember a story about a guy named Abraham who was blessed by God, and all his lineage as well, which is why the Jews are God's Chosen.

And, I don't think God is going to break His covenant with the Jews. Besides, Jesus didn't come to replace the law, but rather to EXPAND on it.

The Bible does not say that those we know don't believe in Yeshua are going to hell. Yeshua tells His followers that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Light. He does not specify when one is "required" to believe. There are other sources that specifically mention waiting times (Jerimiah has a reference to cowards about this too), before people see the Lord. There is one place that was extremely beautiful and peaceful where Enoch was told that it was a place that people went to be prepared to meet the Lord.

You usually ignore my posts, so I will probably have to re-post something similar for you in the future.

If you do not know of Yeshua and are searching for the truth, when you die, there is a VERY good possibility that you will recognize Him, as your Lord, and you will have the same reward, that His believers receive.

 

[logical4u]

Lack of thinking freely is indeed not a Christian monopoly. There are dogmas and dogmatists in other religions as well. Muslims are especially bad about this.

However, insofar as it occurs among Christians and with respect to Christian dogma, it IS Christianity's fault. Or rather, it's the fault of dogmatic belief in a Christian context.

It is an "idea's" fault? An idea has no power to force anyone to do anything. It sounds like you do not want to hold people responsible for their actions.

 

[Montrovant]

This is my point: the "atheists", the "homosexuals" (or any other group that regularly slams Christians) will not start a community of their own. Why do you think that is? There are places where towns are for sale. There are large tracts of land where a group could start their own community (gated or otherwise). Why don't they? Why do they choose to live in family oriented communities (usually largely Christian)? Why do they then feel insulted when a neighbor invites them to "fellowship"? They chose to live in a place where the beliefs of the majority of the people are Christian?

How many of those same people would choose to live in a "muslim community" and then mock and ridicule the muslim faith?

Your point is why don't atheists or homosexuals or whatever other groups you don't like here start communities of their own? Why should they? Just because someone shares a lack of belief, or sexual orientation, doesn't mean you want to live around them. This is obviously true of Christians as well. Why don't they buy a town or start a community? Perhaps most are either happy enough where they are, or not part of any large groups that could do such a thing, etc. You make it out as though atheists generally segregate themselves from the rest of the population, or homosexuals do, or the other groups you consider Christian bashers. I think that's a misrepresentation of reality. While certainly atheist and homosexual groups do exist, I question whether the majority of people who fit those categories are part of said groups, and I question whether they consider isolating themselves from people outside those groups a good thing.

As far as people from these groups you dislike living in largely Christian areas, aren't MOST parts of the country largely Christian? If somewhere from 70-80% of Americans self-identify as Christian (I've seen multiple polls that put the number somewhere in that area), wouldn't it, in fact, be hard to find places that are not made up of mostly Christians? So, the idea that these Christian bashers are specifically going to Christian neighborhoods seems ridiculous.

There are probably few people who would argue that there are admirable traits to Christianity. It may even be that Christians are better able to get along in a society than any others. It is a very difficult hypothesis to prove, if it isn't impossible to do so. There are simply too many variables involved in what makes a good nation, even a good community.

I was responding to a person claiming that Christians were too pushy for them. They seem to think the Christians should just be quiet and accept that other people should make their decisions for them. I was pointing out that if these other ways were soooo great, why didn't they start a community on their own.

It figures that instead of trying to understand the point (that these people find Christians necessary to their way of life), you want to tell me how I feel about them. Please, stay focused: if the Christian way of life is sooo offensive to people that do not agree with those beliefs, settle in a place where Christians are not the largest part of the population.

Your last paragraph demonstrated that somewhere down inside that you (like most people that bash and mock Christians?) understand that there are a huge amount of benefits to be gained from living in a Christian community. I was hoping that those that want Christians to be silent would see that on their own. Maybe, it will help that you pointed it out to us.

I gave you reasons why groups of non-Christians might not start more communities. Do you think buying a town or starting a community of all like-minded people is a simple thing to do?

I didn't tell you how you feel about anyone. As far as Christians being necessary to anyone's way of life, that is true inasmuch as the US is a large majority Christian, and I don't think you have been talking to any of our foreign-located posters here. If you think those who are offended should settle in a place Christians aren't the majority, fine, but understand that those places are going to be few and far between in a country with as many Christians as we have in the US.

I didn't say or imply anything about benefits of Christian communities. What I said was that there are admirable traits in Christianity. I could say the same of just about any religion, probably. That doesn't mean a community made up of people that follow a particular religion is necessarily better than any other. This is especially true considering the many varied denominations of Christianity; you could have multiple Christian communities that are run differently based on the form of the religion the people there follow.

The important point to understand is that the success or safety or enjoyability of a community is based on many things. To assume that a Christian community is going to be better than a non-Christian community, without taking the many other factors into account, is foolish.

 

[ThinkCritically]

"But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.
12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked man from among you.”b"

Just saying.

1 Corinthians 5

This is the whole point that I am making. Paul tells the church to rebuke false christians. He says, "who calls himself a brother". These people who call themselves brothers but are not, is what he is saying. In no way is he telling the church to go counter to the actions of Jesus when he hung out with the drunks, slanderers and swindlers. What he is warning against is hanging out with hypocritical christians. Why do you think that he warned against this so vehamently, because it would be the poison of the church. Non believers would see true believers hanging out with the hypocritical believers, and say to themselves what a bunch of hypocritical nut jobs.