5 Common Myths about "The Settlements".

[Shusha]

1. The native Palestinians still owned 85% of the land at the time of partition in 1947.

Privately owned land is not equivalent to sovereignty*. And the assertion that 85% of the territory in question was under private ownership of Arab "Palestinian" "natives"** is simply untrue. This is patently obvious to anyone with even a rudimentary knowledge of Ottoman land law. (Please, don't bother to post again! your foolish "facts" in the form of land surveys. They don't actually say what you think they say.)


*Obviously. A large neighborhood of primarily Italian immigrants in New York does not grant Italy sovereignty over New York.

**For example, define 'native'. Why is an Arab Christian from another country who bought land in the 1930s a "native" while a Jew returning to his homeland, from another country, who bought land in the 1930s an "invader"?

 

[montelatici]

1. Privately owned land is not equivalent to sovereignty*.

Then tell the bozo that claimed that Zionists weren't invaders because they bought some land.

2. Why is an Arab Christian from another country who bought land in the 1930s a "native" while a Jew returning to his homeland, from another country, who bought land in the 1930s an "invader"?

Because the ownership statistics were related to Palestinian citizens, non-Jew and Jew. Not foreign citizen owners of land.

 

[P F Tinmore]

*Obviously. A large neighborhood of primarily Italian immigrants in New York does not grant Italy sovereignty over New York.

Indeed, and large Jewish settlements do not grant sovereignty over Palestine. It is still Palestinian land.

Thank you for clearing that up.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

1. The native Palestinians still owned 85% of the land at the time of partition in 1947. So they are occupiers of 85% of the land.

2. The British sponsored Zionist European colonization starting with the Balfour Declaration. Not much different from what they did in Rhodesia.

3. So what?

4. So what?

5. So what?

1. In 1945 a Palestinian was a Jew, Arabs never referred to themselves as Palestinians.
2. Not all Jews are Zionists, Stereotyping people says more about you than I think you care known.
Zionism proceeded the Balfour Declaration by decades.

Like I said, if you wish to actually know the history I can recommend good books. It is not like this is really hard.

Which books can you recommend?

 

[Shusha]

*Obviously. A large neighborhood of primarily Italian immigrants in New York does not grant Italy sovereignty over New York.

Indeed, and large Jewish settlements do not grant sovereignty over Palestine. It is still Palestinian land....

Well, that all depends on what you mean by "Palestinian land". I don't disagree with you that it is "Palestinian land". It is "Palestinian land". But you keep forgetting that there are (at least) two types of "Palestinians". You mean to include Arab Palestinians and exclude Jewish Palestinians and you mean to include Arab Palestinian returnees while excluding Jewish returnees. And therein lies the problem. See, you want to say that "Palestinian land" somehow excludes the Jewish people. You want to say that the Arab Palestinians have a right to self-determination, while the Jewish Palestinians do not. You want to say that Jewish Palestinians are stealing land from Arab Palestinians as though only one of those groups has rights. You want to include Arab immigrants while excluding Jewish immigrants. (You were the one championing the rights of the Arab immigrant to the territory in the 1930s while simultaneously denying the rights of the Jewish immigrant to the territory in the 1930s even though they bought literally adjoining plots of land within a few years of each other).

Further, if you believe that "Jewish settlements" do not grant sovereignty over territory, you would have to admit that these "Jewish settlements" do not pose a risk to the potential sovereignty of an eventual Palestinian State.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

*Obviously. A large neighborhood of primarily Italian immigrants in New York does not grant Italy sovereignty over New York.

Indeed, and large Jewish settlements do not grant sovereignty over Palestine. It is still Palestinian land.

Thank you for clearing that up.

There were not only settlements. There were legal documents. There was recognition from the U.N. There was Jewish blood spilled. (6,000 in the War of Independence. Dr. Ruth Westheimer was a sniper in that war.) There were the sweat and tears of Jews building up the land in kibbutzim. (And I lived on a kibbutz for 6 months--really hard work.)

 

[P F Tinmore]

You want to say that the Arab Palestinians have a right to self-determination, while the Jewish Palestinians do not.

I have never said that. The Palestinians do not group people. All Palestinians have equal rights.

 

[Shusha]

You want to say that the Arab Palestinians have a right to self-determination, while the Jewish Palestinians do not.

I have never said that. The Palestinians do not group people. All Palestinians have equal rights.

Then you agree that the Jewish "Palestinians" have a right to sovereign self-determination, as do the Arab "Palestinians". Yes or no?

 

[P F Tinmore]

*Obviously. A large neighborhood of primarily Italian immigrants in New York does not grant Italy sovereignty over New York.

Indeed, and large Jewish settlements do not grant sovereignty over Palestine. It is still Palestinian land.

Thank you for clearing that up.

There were not only settlements. There were legal documents. There was recognition from the U.N. There was Jewish blood spilled. (6,000 in the War of Independence. Dr. Ruth Westheimer was a sniper in that war.) There were the sweat and tears of Jews building up the land in kibbutzim. (And I lived on a kibbutz for 6 months--really hard work.)

OK, so? What does that have to do with my post?

 

[P F Tinmore]

You want to say that the Arab Palestinians have a right to self-determination, while the Jewish Palestinians do not.

I have never said that. The Palestinians do not group people. All Palestinians have equal rights.

Then you agree that the Jewish "Palestinians" have a right to sovereign self-determination, as do the Arab "Palestinians". Yes or no?

Yes, equal rights. One cannot grab the rights then deny them to others.

 

[elektra]

1. The native Palestinians still owned 85% of the land at the time of partition in 1947. So they are occupiers of 85% of the land.

2. The British sponsored Zionist European colonization starting with the Balfour Declaration. Not much different from what they did in Rhodesia.

3. So what?

4. So what?

5. So what?

1. In 1945 a Palestinian was a Jew, Arabs never referred to themselves as Palestinians.
2. Not all Jews are Zionists, Stereotyping people says more about you than I think you care known.
Zionism proceeded the Balfour Declaration by decades.

Like I said, if you wish to actually know the history I can recommend good books. It is not like this is really hard.

Which books can you recommend?

Behind the Silken Curtain, Bartley C. Crum
Moshe Dayan, Story of my life.
Arabia Deserta
History of Syria Including Lebanon and Palestine, Hitti
The Bible

I think Behind the Silken Curtain is one of the biggest eye openers.

The Diary of Moses Montefiore, is another great book which explains some things that are pretty unknown. You can find the diary as a free download at Google books, full view. A must read.

Behind the Silken Curtain is another must read.

 

[montelatici]

You want to say that the Arab Palestinians have a right to self-determination, while the Jewish Palestinians do not.

I have never said that. The Palestinians do not group people. All Palestinians have equal rights.

Then you agree that the Jewish "Palestinians" have a right to sovereign self-determination, as do the Arab "Palestinians". Yes or no?

The Jewish Palestinians that were in Palestine before the mass European Zionist invasion, certainly had a right to self-determination along with the Muslim and Christian Palestinians that lived with them, had a right to live in a secular Palestinian state.

 

[elektra]

The Jewish Palestinians that were in Palestine before the mass European Zionist invasion, certainly had a right to self-determination along with the Muslim and Christian Palestinians that lived with them, had a right to live in a secular Palestinian state.

And of course, all Arabs migrated to Palestine, as they are from Arabia. Never once has what you call "Palestinians", who are Arabs, denounced their origin, as from being from Arabia.

Arabs came to Israel in great numbers, from Syria, from Babylonia, from Persia, from Arabia. You see, those countries as monelatici pointed out earlier, had no colleges, they had no opportunity hence they had to come to the only place in the Middle East with colleges and hospitals, Israel. Especially if they wanted children with healthy eyes.

 

[montelatici]

The Jewish Palestinians that were in Palestine before the mass European Zionist invasion, certainly had a right to self-determination along with the Muslim and Christian Palestinians that lived with them, had a right to live in a secular Palestinian state.

And of course, all Arabs migrated to Palestine, as they are from Arabia. Never once has what you call "Palestinians", who are Arabs, denounced their origin, as from being from Arabia.

Arabs came to Israel in great numbers, from Syria, from Babylonia, from Persia, from Arabia. You see, those countries as monelatici pointed out earlier, had no colleges, they had no opportunity hence they had to come to the only place in the Middle East with colleges and hospitals, Israel. Especially if they wanted children with healthy eyes.

The Christians and Muslims of Palestine are Arabs, not Arabians. They are the native people of Palestine, that before converting to Christianity, practiced different religions, Judaism included. Arab denotes a linguistic and cultural definition, not an ethnic definition. The Arabians invaded Christian Palestine and conquered it, but did not displace the Christian population. They were the ruling class. You are just a propagandist.

 

[elektra]

The Christians and Muslims of Palestine are Arabs, not Arabians. They are the native people of Palestine, that before converting to Christianity, practiced different religions, Judaism included. Arab denotes a linguistic and cultural definition, not an ethnic definition. The Arabians invaded Christian Palestine and conquered it, but did not displace the Christian population. They were the ruling class. You are just a propagandist.

They can't be Arabs if they are from Palestine, Palestine never was and will never be, Arabia. Only in opposite World is an Arab not an Arab. I guess Americans are the English?

 

[montelatici]

There are "Arabs" in Morocco and Algeria that are ethnically Berbers. Arab is not an ethnic group you idiot. Arabs are people that speak Arabic. Just as Hispanics are people that speak Spanish.

The ancestors of the Muslims and Christians of Palestine were once Roman citizens. They are the native people of Palestine. You are so confused.

​

 

[elektra]

There are "Arabs" in Morocco and Algeria that are ethnically Berbers. Arab is not an ethnic group you idiot. Arabs are people that speak Arabic. Just as Hispanics are people that speak Spanish.

The ancestors of the Muslims and Christians of Palestine were once Roman citizens. They are the native people of Palestine. You are so confused.

​

That Mohamed spread the language of Arabia across Northern Africa, does not make the people of Morocco, Arabic.

Technically, people who speak spanish are not Hispanic, you kind of got to be of Hispania origin to be hispanic.

 

[Hollie]

You want to say that the Arab Palestinians have a right to self-determination, while the Jewish Palestinians do not.

I have never said that. The Palestinians do not group people. All Palestinians have equal rights.

Then you agree that the Jewish "Palestinians" have a right to sovereign self-determination, as do the Arab "Palestinians". Yes or no?

The Jewish Palestinians that were in Palestine before the mass European Zionist invasion, certainly had a right to self-determination along with the Muslim and Christian Palestinians that lived with them, had a right to live in a secular Palestinian state.

That's that pretty darn funny. A secular Arab/Islamist utopia?

A secular state controlled by Moslems is quite the contradiction. Nowhere is this more evident than in the normal of the Arab/Islamic world where armed terrorists are allowed to roam the streets, genocidal jihad groups participate in governance and a population holding to a 7th century worldview promotes a population that enables your politico-religious ideology to engender hate and derision toward the minority population. We call that fascism.

 

[P F Tinmore]

There are "Arabs" in Morocco and Algeria that are ethnically Berbers. Arab is not an ethnic group you idiot. Arabs are people that speak Arabic. Just as Hispanics are people that speak Spanish.

The ancestors of the Muslims and Christians of Palestine were once Roman citizens. They are the native people of Palestine. You are so confused.

​

That Mohamed spread the language of Arabia across Northern Africa, does not make the people of Morocco, Arabic.

Technically, people who speak spanish are not Hispanic, you kind of got to be of Hispania origin to be hispanic.

And besides that, what does it matter?

 

[montelatici]

There are "Arabs" in Morocco and Algeria that are ethnically Berbers. Arab is not an ethnic group you idiot. Arabs are people that speak Arabic. Just as Hispanics are people that speak Spanish.

The ancestors of the Muslims and Christians of Palestine were once Roman citizens. They are the native people of Palestine. You are so confused.

​

That Mohamed spread the language of Arabia across Northern Africa, does not make the people of Morocco, Arabic.

Technically, people who speak spanish are not Hispanic, you kind of got to be of Hispania origin to be hispanic.

His·pan·ic
hiˈspanik/
adjective

1. 1.
   relating to Spain or to Spanish-speaking countries, especially those of Latin America.

noun

1. 1.
   a Spanish-speaking person living in the US, especially one of Latin American descent.