Shusha
Gold Member
- Dec 14, 2015
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Decided to start a new thread since it has the potential to be an interesting discussion.
A quick overview of the topic, copied from the other thread:
There are 39 "unrecognized" Bedouin villages in the Negev region, comprising of ~70,000 people. (There are 6 villages which have been recognized). These villages represent locations where, in the past ~75 years, traditional, nomadic tribes have fallen into a more sedentary and localize agricultural lifestyle. The location of these villages is based on complex and competing tribal relationships as well as the result of the upheaval of the War of Independence. Some of those villages (including Umm al-Hiran in 1956) received government permission to settle on that land. The villages, however, were not considered or included in Israel's long-term land use strategy and planning. It may be that Israel's intent was to permit only temporary use of the land. This land is not "privately owned" by any citizen, and is State land. This is not land which is historically "ancestral" land in the sense often used by advocates in this conflict.
The issue is that this land does not fit into Israel's long-term urban planning schedule. Israel does not intend for this land to be traditional, local, agricultural subsistence-level farming. This conflict between urbanization and traditional farming communities is a common one all over the world. It is not primarily a conflict of ethnicities -- but a conflict of technology and civilization.
So what is Israel to do? First, it offered incentives -- each married couple and each single male over the age of 24 was offered legal ownership of a 800 sq m parcel of land in the nearby town of Hura with 100,000 NIS to build a house. Hura offered not only legal ownership of land and a home, but also water, electricity, and access to schools and medical services. The majority of the residents accepted this offer. The remaining ~700 residents refused.
But, there are problems with Hura. Unemployment is high. Housing is limited by physical space and there are families waiting to receive housing from the government (the Bedouin population''s fertility rate is so high the population doubles every 15 years). There are tribal and family conflicts.
The remaining residents of Umm al-Hiran have also been offered parcels of land within the new Hiran community to be built there. Those parcels are necessarily smaller than those in Hura, because the land parcels in Hiran are smaller universally.
The residents seem to be resisting this incorporation into the new Hiran community, near as I can tell. (As I said, it is difficult to get detailed, accurate information). The residents of Umm al-Hiran appear, at least to me, to want to maintain a semi-traditional, rural, agricultural subsistence farming-bound life. The ~700 residents want individual or communal ownership of the land they currently farm, and they will need enough land reserves to deal with a population which doubles ever 15 years.
Now, having said all that, there is a tendency in Israel to segregate Arab and Jewish communities. (No, don't go all apartheid on me -- its not that). There is an element of embedded, even institutionalized racism. It occurs on both sides. Its not much different than segregated communities which occur all over the world -- in the US, Canada, UK, Europe.
So what is Israel to do? What is the solution to this? Its a complex problem. Its a problem tackled by many countries in the past and still being addressed in many places today.
Its easy enough to say, "well, just give the 39 Bedouin villages recognition and land ownership within defined and official village boundaries, provide them with water, electricity, sanitation, education and medical facilities." And I wouldn't disagree with you. But be aware that this 'solution' presents a new host of problems. In the six villages which have been recognized, there is a problem with them growing outside their boundaries, building illegal houses there, taking over land which is not under their ownership. What does Israel do then?
Its a good discussion to have. This actually is one of the areas where people can legitimately criticize Israel. Be glad to have this debate with anyone willing to pursue it with integrity.
A quick overview of the topic, copied from the other thread:
There are 39 "unrecognized" Bedouin villages in the Negev region, comprising of ~70,000 people. (There are 6 villages which have been recognized). These villages represent locations where, in the past ~75 years, traditional, nomadic tribes have fallen into a more sedentary and localize agricultural lifestyle. The location of these villages is based on complex and competing tribal relationships as well as the result of the upheaval of the War of Independence. Some of those villages (including Umm al-Hiran in 1956) received government permission to settle on that land. The villages, however, were not considered or included in Israel's long-term land use strategy and planning. It may be that Israel's intent was to permit only temporary use of the land. This land is not "privately owned" by any citizen, and is State land. This is not land which is historically "ancestral" land in the sense often used by advocates in this conflict.
The issue is that this land does not fit into Israel's long-term urban planning schedule. Israel does not intend for this land to be traditional, local, agricultural subsistence-level farming. This conflict between urbanization and traditional farming communities is a common one all over the world. It is not primarily a conflict of ethnicities -- but a conflict of technology and civilization.
So what is Israel to do? First, it offered incentives -- each married couple and each single male over the age of 24 was offered legal ownership of a 800 sq m parcel of land in the nearby town of Hura with 100,000 NIS to build a house. Hura offered not only legal ownership of land and a home, but also water, electricity, and access to schools and medical services. The majority of the residents accepted this offer. The remaining ~700 residents refused.
But, there are problems with Hura. Unemployment is high. Housing is limited by physical space and there are families waiting to receive housing from the government (the Bedouin population''s fertility rate is so high the population doubles every 15 years). There are tribal and family conflicts.
The remaining residents of Umm al-Hiran have also been offered parcels of land within the new Hiran community to be built there. Those parcels are necessarily smaller than those in Hura, because the land parcels in Hiran are smaller universally.
The residents seem to be resisting this incorporation into the new Hiran community, near as I can tell. (As I said, it is difficult to get detailed, accurate information). The residents of Umm al-Hiran appear, at least to me, to want to maintain a semi-traditional, rural, agricultural subsistence farming-bound life. The ~700 residents want individual or communal ownership of the land they currently farm, and they will need enough land reserves to deal with a population which doubles ever 15 years.
Now, having said all that, there is a tendency in Israel to segregate Arab and Jewish communities. (No, don't go all apartheid on me -- its not that). There is an element of embedded, even institutionalized racism. It occurs on both sides. Its not much different than segregated communities which occur all over the world -- in the US, Canada, UK, Europe.
So what is Israel to do? What is the solution to this? Its a complex problem. Its a problem tackled by many countries in the past and still being addressed in many places today.
Its easy enough to say, "well, just give the 39 Bedouin villages recognition and land ownership within defined and official village boundaries, provide them with water, electricity, sanitation, education and medical facilities." And I wouldn't disagree with you. But be aware that this 'solution' presents a new host of problems. In the six villages which have been recognized, there is a problem with them growing outside their boundaries, building illegal houses there, taking over land which is not under their ownership. What does Israel do then?
Its a good discussion to have. This actually is one of the areas where people can legitimately criticize Israel. Be glad to have this debate with anyone willing to pursue it with integrity.
