2nd Amendment protection added to Health Care ???

[immto]

O.K this is bizarre, the Democrats have allowed language in the Health Care bill to protect 2nd amendment rights. It seems to me the Democrats are really going for the hail marry on this one. The language added appears to protect people from being required to report firearm ownership and collections and ammo being stored. The only reason I can think of for this is to ensure that some left winger won't get a sneaky idea here soon to make it mandatory for you to list firearms owned in order to obtain medical services. Or to be required to list permits obtained on medical disclosures. I guess it's a good safety net but if we have some republicans (I'm assuming) having foresight to have this added, then what do they have in store for us in the near future. We better be watching like a hawk.

Is this really still our Country?: 2nd Amendment protection added to Health Care ???

 

[Emma]

Hail marry?

In any case:

http://www.politico.com/static/PPM145_chris.html

‘‘(c) PROTECTION OF SECOND AMENDMENT GUN
RIGHTS.—

‘‘(1) WELLNESS AND PREVENTION PROGRAMS.—A wellness and health promotion activity implemented under subsection (a)(1)(D) may not require the disclosure or collection of any information relating to—

‘‘(A) the presence or storage of a lawfully possessed firearm or ammunition in the residence or on the property of an individual; or

‘‘(B) the lawful use, possession, or storage of a firearm or ammunition by an individual.

‘‘(2) LIMITATION ON DATA COLLECTION.—None of the authorities provided to the Secretary under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act shall be construed to authorize or may be used for the collection of any information relating to—

‘‘(A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition;

‘‘(B) the lawful use of a firearm or ammunition; or

‘‘(C) the lawful storage of a firearm or ammunition.

‘‘(3) LIMITATION ON DATABASES OR DATA BANKS.—None of the authorities provided to the Secretary under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act shall be construed to authorize or may be used to maintain records of individual ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition.

‘‘(4) LIMITATION ON DETERMINATION OF PREMIUM RATES OR ELIGIBILITY FOR HEALTH INSURANCE.—A premium rate may not be increased, health insurance coverage may not be denied, and a discount, rebate, or reward offered for participation in a wellness program may not be reduced or with held under any health benefit plan issued pursuant to or in accordance with the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act on the basis of, or on reliance upon—

‘‘(A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition; or

‘‘(B) the lawful use or storage of a firearm or ammunition.

‘‘(5) LIMITATION ON DATA COLLECTION REQUIREMENTS FOR INDIVIDUALS.—No individual shall be required to disclose any information under any data collection activity authorized under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act relating to—

‘‘(A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition; or

‘‘(B) the lawful use, possession, or storage of a firearm or ammunition.’’.

1. No database created by this bill can be used to collect or maintain records of legally owned/stored firearms or ammunition.

2. In addition, health insurance coverage cannot be denied, premiums cannot be increased, and discounts cannot be withheld or reduced based upon gun ownership and use.


I recall the right being pretty damned paranoid about this. So Reid puts this guarantee into the amendment to specifically address their concerns... and what happens? It makes them even more paranoid

 

[blu]

the current gop is the cancer killing intelligent debate and progression of the country

 

[Emma]

On Oct. 9, 2009, the day before the Finance Committee began voting on amendments to the Baucus bill, GOA sent an alert to members titled, "ObamaCare Could be Used to Ban Guns in Home Self-Defense." The conservative group speculated about the impact of the health care bill on gun owners, hypothesizing that, in a bid to control spiraling health care costs, the administration will target people who have "excessively dangerous" behaviors that officials believe raise the cost of health care. The group warned that gun ownership — particularly keeping "a loaded firearm for self-defense" — is likely to be high on that list.

PolitiFact | Gun-rights group says health care bill could harm gun owners

[from one of that group's emails]

Why should gun owners care that this "research result" will show such an impact on health care costs?

Underwriting.

Insurance premiums are calculated, in part, based upon your risk group. If you smoke, your premiums are higher and/or it is harder to get coverage. Why? Cigarette smoking demonstrably increases your health care costs over the long term. Have diabetes? Ditto. High blood pressure and cholesterol? Get out your wallet.

So now, armed with a "study" showing that the presence of a gun greatly increases health care costs, gun owners are now considered a high risk group and the insurance companies have Science! to back up that claim. "Owning a gun is no different than having cancer..." "No sir, we aren't violating your civil rights. You may still own whatever guns you wish, you just are going to pay at-risk rates rather than preferred rates."

Here is a preview of the new health insurance application forms:

Name, address, age, gender, height, weight, prior medical conditions, do you smoke, do you own guns, if so how many and what kind....

 

[Immanuel]

Hail marry?

In any case:

http://www.politico.com/static/PPM145_chris.html

‘‘(c) PROTECTION OF SECOND AMENDMENT GUN
RIGHTS.—

‘‘(1) WELLNESS AND PREVENTION PROGRAMS.—A wellness and health promotion activity implemented under subsection (a)(1)(D) may not require the disclosure or collection of any information relating to—

‘‘(A) the presence or storage of a lawfully possessed firearm or ammunition in the residence or on the property of an individual; or

‘‘(B) the lawful use, possession, or storage of a firearm or ammunition by an individual.

‘‘(2) LIMITATION ON DATA COLLECTION.—None of the authorities provided to the Secretary under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act shall be construed to authorize or may be used for the collection of any information relating to—

‘‘(A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition;

‘‘(B) the lawful use of a firearm or ammunition; or

‘‘(C) the lawful storage of a firearm or ammunition.

‘‘(3) LIMITATION ON DATABASES OR DATA BANKS.—None of the authorities provided to the Secretary under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act shall be construed to authorize or may be used to maintain records of individual ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition.

‘‘(4) LIMITATION ON DETERMINATION OF PREMIUM RATES OR ELIGIBILITY FOR HEALTH INSURANCE.—A premium rate may not be increased, health insurance coverage may not be denied, and a discount, rebate, or reward offered for participation in a wellness program may not be reduced or with held under any health benefit plan issued pursuant to or in accordance with the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act on the basis of, or on reliance upon—

‘‘(A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition; or

‘‘(B) the lawful use or storage of a firearm or ammunition.

‘‘(5) LIMITATION ON DATA COLLECTION REQUIREMENTS FOR INDIVIDUALS.—No individual shall be required to disclose any information under any data collection activity authorized under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act relating to—

‘‘(A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition; or

‘‘(B) the lawful use, possession, or storage of a firearm or ammunition.’’.

1. No database created by this bill can be used to collect or maintain records of legally owned/stored firearms or ammunition.

2. In addition, health insurance coverage cannot be denied, premiums cannot be increased, and discounts cannot be withheld or reduced based upon gun ownership and use.


I recall the right being pretty damned paranoid about this. So Reid puts this guarantee into the amendment to specifically address their concerns... and what happens? It makes them even more paranoid

Actually the intent is to force Republicans to vote for the Health Insurance Destruction Bill. Any Republican with the gall to vote no will be exposed as being Anti-gun rights and accused of wanting to circumvent the 2nd Amendment... in other words, the tactic is deceitful politics at its finest.

I pray the Republicans don't cave in that easily.

Immie

 

[Emma]

the current gop is the cancer killing intelligent debate and progression of the country

They are certainly the most paranoid people on the face of the planet...

 

[blu]

the current gop is the cancer killing intelligent debate and progression of the country

They are certainly the most paranoid people on the face of the planet...

I think much of it has to do with ignorance & fear of the unknown. they are scared that their children might have to learn science and non-violent solutions to problems. they are also worried that their kids might reach the liberal internet and gain access to ideas not specifically sanctioned by the town pastor and fox news.

 

[Emma]

Actually the intent is to force Republicans to vote for the Health Insurance Destruction Bill. Any Republican with the gall to vote no will be exposed as being Anti-gun rights and accused of wanting to circumvent the 2nd Amendment... in other words, the tactic is deceitful politics at its finest.

I pray the Republicans don't cave in that easily.

Immie

C'mon. Seriously. The gun lobby raises hell about this non-existent 'threat'... so it's addressed in the manager's amendment and now it's "deceit"? Considering this was included as a compromise with and for the Republicans, does that mean they want to out their own as anti-gun?


Why should he even bothered? Damned if he did, damned if he didn't.

 

[Missourian]

the current gop is the cancer killing intelligent debate and progression of the country

They are certainly the most paranoid people on the face of the planet...

“Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you”​

Kurt Cobain
​

 

[immto]

the current gop is the cancer killing intelligent debate and progression of the country

They are certainly the most paranoid people on the face of the planet...

“Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you”​

Kurt Cobain
​

It's not like the left wingers are not after all guns. Give them a second and gun grabbing will be the next big thing.

 

[Emma]

They are certainly the most paranoid people on the face of the planet...

“Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you”​

Kurt Cobain
​

It's not like the left wingers are not after all guns. Give them a second and gun grabbing will be the next big thing.

I heart guns.

 

[Emma]

the current gop is the cancer killing intelligent debate and progression of the country

They are certainly the most paranoid people on the face of the planet...

“Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you”​

Kurt Cobain
​

true dat

 

[oreo]

O.K this is bizarre, the Democrats have allowed language in the Health Care bill to protect 2nd amendment rights. It seems to me the Democrats are really going for the hail marry on this one. The language added appears to protect people from being required to report firearm ownership and collections and ammo being stored. The only reason I can think of for this is to ensure that some left winger won't get a sneaky idea here soon to make it mandatory for you to list firearms owned in order to obtain medical services. Or to be required to list permits obtained on medical disclosures. I guess it's a good safety net but if we have some republicans (I'm assuming) having foresight to have this added, then what do they have in store for us in the near future. We better be watching like a hawk.

Is this really still our Country?: 2nd Amendment protection added to Health Care ???

Now--why on earth would second amendment rights be stuffed into a "health care bill." Our federal government at work again---

 

[oreo]

Hail marry?

In any case:

http://www.politico.com/static/PPM145_chris.html

‘‘(c) PROTECTION OF SECOND AMENDMENT GUN
RIGHTS.—

‘‘(1) WELLNESS AND PREVENTION PROGRAMS.—A wellness and health promotion activity implemented under subsection (a)(1)(D) may not require the disclosure or collection of any information relating to—

‘‘(A) the presence or storage of a lawfully possessed firearm or ammunition in the residence or on the property of an individual; or

‘‘(B) the lawful use, possession, or storage of a firearm or ammunition by an individual.

‘‘(2) LIMITATION ON DATA COLLECTION.—None of the authorities provided to the Secretary under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act shall be construed to authorize or may be used for the collection of any information relating to—

‘‘(A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition;

‘‘(B) the lawful use of a firearm or ammunition; or

‘‘(C) the lawful storage of a firearm or ammunition.

‘‘(3) LIMITATION ON DATABASES OR DATA BANKS.—None of the authorities provided to the Secretary under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act shall be construed to authorize or may be used to maintain records of individual ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition.

‘‘(4) LIMITATION ON DETERMINATION OF PREMIUM RATES OR ELIGIBILITY FOR HEALTH INSURANCE.—A premium rate may not be increased, health insurance coverage may not be denied, and a discount, rebate, or reward offered for participation in a wellness program may not be reduced or with held under any health benefit plan issued pursuant to or in accordance with the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act on the basis of, or on reliance upon—

‘‘(A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition; or

‘‘(B) the lawful use or storage of a firearm or ammunition.

‘‘(5) LIMITATION ON DATA COLLECTION REQUIREMENTS FOR INDIVIDUALS.—No individual shall be required to disclose any information under any data collection activity authorized under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act relating to—

‘‘(A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition; or

‘‘(B) the lawful use, possession, or storage of a firearm or ammunition.’’.

1. No database created by this bill can be used to collect or maintain records of legally owned/stored firearms or ammunition.

2. In addition, health insurance coverage cannot be denied, premiums cannot be increased, and discounts cannot be withheld or reduced based upon gun ownership and use.


I recall the right being pretty damned paranoid about this. So Reid puts this guarantee into the amendment to specifically address their concerns... and what happens? It makes them even more paranoid

Actually the intent is to force Republicans to vote for the Health Insurance Destruction Bill. Any Republican with the gall to vote no will be exposed as being Anti-gun rights and accused of wanting to circumvent the 2nd Amendment... in other words, the tactic is deceitful politics at its finest.

I pray the Republicans don't cave in that easily.

Immie

We already have second admendment rights--& Republicans won't cave into this prank. They will vote no on this health care bill.

 

[Emma]

We already have second admendment rights--& Republicans won't cave into this prank. They will vote no on this health care bill.

Psst:

Manager's Amendment

A Manager's Amendment is a package of numerous individual amendments agreed to by both sides in advance.

The managers are the majority and the minority member who manage the debate on a bill for their side.

 

[jeffrockit]

the current gop is the cancer killing intelligent debate and progression of the country

the current Political parties are the cancer killing intelligent debate and progression of the country. To think that either side is better or worse is to be ignorant of past political history. Partisan politics is the real cancer on this country though it keeps the politicians safe and free to go on with their power grab.

 

[txlonghorn]

the current gop is the cancer killing intelligent debate and progression of the country

They are certainly the most paranoid people on the face of the planet...

Yes...a strong arm takeover of one's country tends to make one a bit skiddish. When so much is being taken away right under your nose, you tend to question a sudden gesture of "sacrifice" by the hit and run left.

 

[ihopehefails]

the current gop is the cancer killing intelligent debate and progression of the country

Some of us feel the direction of progression is determined by the individual in a direction that they choose and not by the collective will of society.

 

[Immanuel]

Actually the intent is to force Republicans to vote for the Health Insurance Destruction Bill. Any Republican with the gall to vote no will be exposed as being Anti-gun rights and accused of wanting to circumvent the 2nd Amendment... in other words, the tactic is deceitful politics at its finest.

I pray the Republicans don't cave in that easily.

Immie

C'mon. Seriously. The gun lobby raises hell about this non-existent 'threat'... so it's addressed in the manager's amendment and now it's "deceit"? Considering this was included as a compromise with and for the Republicans, does that mean they want to out their own as anti-gun?


Why should he even bothered? Damned if he did, damned if he didn't.

Why should he be bothered?

What ever it takes to defeat the "enemy".

The deceitful part is the using the language to claim that Senator "Soandso" is against gun rights because he voted against the Health Insurance Deformation Act of 2009. You see they will claim that anyone who votes against the destruction of the Health Insurance companies (which is what this bill is going to be when they reconcile the two plans and throw the public "Option" back in) only voted against it because they were opposed to guns.

The bastards in Washington are just plain deceitful in that manner.

Immie

And PS: for the most part that was meant as a joke.

 

[DiamondDave]

Hail marry?

In any case:

http://www.politico.com/static/PPM145_chris.html

‘‘(c) PROTECTION OF SECOND AMENDMENT GUN
RIGHTS.—

‘‘(1) WELLNESS AND PREVENTION PROGRAMS.—A wellness and health promotion activity implemented under subsection (a)(1)(D) may not require the disclosure or collection of any information relating to—

‘‘(A) the presence or storage of a lawfully possessed firearm or ammunition in the residence or on the property of an individual; or

‘‘(B) the lawful use, possession, or storage of a firearm or ammunition by an individual.

‘‘(2) LIMITATION ON DATA COLLECTION.—None of the authorities provided to the Secretary under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act shall be construed to authorize or may be used for the collection of any information relating to—

‘‘(A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition;

‘‘(B) the lawful use of a firearm or ammunition; or

‘‘(C) the lawful storage of a firearm or ammunition.

‘‘(3) LIMITATION ON DATABASES OR DATA BANKS.—None of the authorities provided to the Secretary under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act shall be construed to authorize or may be used to maintain records of individual ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition.

‘‘(4) LIMITATION ON DETERMINATION OF PREMIUM RATES OR ELIGIBILITY FOR HEALTH INSURANCE.—A premium rate may not be increased, health insurance coverage may not be denied, and a discount, rebate, or reward offered for participation in a wellness program may not be reduced or with held under any health benefit plan issued pursuant to or in accordance with the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act on the basis of, or on reliance upon—

‘‘(A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition; or

‘‘(B) the lawful use or storage of a firearm or ammunition.

‘‘(5) LIMITATION ON DATA COLLECTION REQUIREMENTS FOR INDIVIDUALS.—No individual shall be required to disclose any information under any data collection activity authorized under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act relating to—

‘‘(A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition; or

‘‘(B) the lawful use, possession, or storage of a firearm or ammunition.’’.

1. No database created by this bill can be used to collect or maintain records of legally owned/stored firearms or ammunition.

2. In addition, health insurance coverage cannot be denied, premiums cannot be increased, and discounts cannot be withheld or reduced based upon gun ownership and use.


I recall the right being pretty damned paranoid about this. So Reid puts this guarantee into the amendment to specifically address their concerns... and what happens? It makes them even more paranoid

Actually the intent is to force Republicans to vote for the Health Insurance Destruction Bill. Any Republican with the gall to vote no will be exposed as being Anti-gun rights and accused of wanting to circumvent the 2nd Amendment... in other words, the tactic is deceitful politics at its finest.

I pray the Republicans don't cave in that easily.

Immie

All those voting against it, who also support the 2nd amendment, have to do is publicly explain that the vote was against healthcare and expose the plot of the 'rider' as an attempt to buy opposition votes... and that if standing each on their own, they would vote for a protection of 2nd amendment rights and against the healthcare proposals