2016: The Year Americans Found Out Their Elections Are Rigged

[bendog]

I've lived in four states now, and I don't think Mississippi is unusual in terms of citizen participation in a state party. There's no barrier to getting involved with a party.

Mississippi Republican Party » Events

There was in Colorado when the GOP there decided to revoke the primary without getting the consent of its dues paying members, Sherlock

Jim, Colorado hasn't had a primary election since 2000.

Colorado Caucus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[JimBowie1958]

were you upset that Al Gore won the popular vote but the electors and supreme court chose Bush?

Presidents have never been picked by the popular vote, our constitution specifies that we the people's vote, does not pick our President, electors do....

Primaries are no different with delegates.....

So it would be no big deal to you if the general election were canceled and the next President chosen by unbound delegates to the Electoral College?

who picks the electors?

The states select their delegates in varying ways, similar to how convention delegates are chosen.

Electoral College (United States) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[JimBowie1958]

I've lived in four states now, and I don't think Mississippi is unusual in terms of citizen participation in a state party. There's no barrier to getting involved with a party.

Mississippi Republican Party » Events

There was in Colorado when the GOP there decided to revoke the primary without getting the consent of its dues paying members, Sherlock

Jim, Colorado hasn't had a primary election since 2000.

Colorado Caucus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I mispoke; I meant to say it revoked its poll rather than let it be binding..

 

[JimBowie1958]

All but 3 of colo's natl delegates were elected. No one has shown anyone was denied the opportunity to legitimately vote in the precinct caucuses in early March. After that, only delegates elected at the caucuses could vote, and they voted either in county caucuses or at the state convention, where half of the natl delegates were elected at each. (besides the three who are sorta like superdelegates)

The only oligarch harmed was Trump, who didn't have his voters are the March 2 precinct caucuses.

Delegates at a closed caucus where less than 10% of the party membership shows up or even knows about the caucus is hardly 'elected'.

Colorado GOP Elites did not want to risk Trump winning a straw poll, or a primary and so they went with a caucus format that is considered antiquated even for a caucus.

Colorado GOP blundered on 2016 presidential caucus

Except for the actual delegates to July's national convention, Colorado Republicans who want to have a say in the future of their party have mostly been stripped of a role in the most interesting and surprising nominating struggle in decades....
Meanwhile, local airwaves have been featuring ads on behalf of Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders, since the Democrats are still holding a traditional caucus at which participants get to signal their support for a candidate. It's known as democracy. ...
It's bad enough the two parties in Colorado don't have presidential primaries in which many more voters would participate. The caucuses already limit participation to a narrow slice of the electorate. But the fact that the Republican leadership then took matters a step further and deprived even that narrow slice of voters a voice in one of the most competitive, consequential political nominations in memory - and perhaps in history - is mindboggling.

So the distinction, as I gather it in Colorado, is that instead of the traditional caucus where the local precincts vote for a candidate and the consequences of that vote roll up to the top, the GOP attendees got to vote for delegates to go to a congressional convention and then they elected delegates to the state convention and at the state convention the delegates voted for a slate of delegates that backed candidates.

That is extremely NOT transparent and ANTI democratic.

 

[bendog]

Colo had a NONBINDING straw poll. The national party said any state wide vote had to be binding. Colorado's state party didn't want their delegates bound in March when some of the candidates still running would be gone long before the natl convention. So, they quit having the poll. But nothing shows this was done hurt the Donald, as he was probably still a dem at the time, and nothing shows he had much support amongst registered Colorado republican .... because IN FACT Cruz won more delegates in the March 2 precinct caucuses, which is why he got the delegates to the natl convention who BTW are not actually bound to anyone even on the first ballot.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Colorado's state party didn't want their delegates bound in March when some of the candidates still running would be gone long before the natl convention. So, they quit having the poll. But nothing shows this was done hurt the Donald, as he was probably still a dem at the time, and nothing shows he had much support amongst registered Colorado republican .....

The change was made in August of 2015, and Trump was ahead in Colorado polls.

 

[Iceweasel]

Of course they are rigged, they are private institutions. They don't have to accept anyones' votes.

What I am learning in 2016 is the dumbshit billionaire who allegedly calls all the shots didn't bother to even compete for delegates because he didn't understand the established rules that existed before he ran for president. Putin would love him.

Putin has punked obama every way possible so far. What a stupid point of view. Plus, the point was that it's unfair, not that it was illegal. Dumb fuck.

 

[bendog]

All but 3 of colo's natl delegates were elected. No one has shown anyone was denied the opportunity to legitimately vote in the precinct caucuses in early March. After that, only delegates elected at the caucuses could vote, and they voted either in county caucuses or at the state convention, where half of the natl delegates were elected at each. (besides the three who are sorta like superdelegates)

The only oligarch harmed was Trump, who didn't have his voters are the March 2 precinct caucuses.

Delegates at a closed caucus where less than 10% of the party membership shows up or even knows about the caucus is hardly 'elected'.

Colorado GOP Elites did not want to risk Trump winning a straw poll, or a primary and so they went with a caucus format that is considered antiquated even for a caucus.

Colorado GOP blundered on 2016 presidential caucus

Except for the actual delegates to July's national convention, Colorado Republicans who want to have a say in the future of their party have mostly been stripped of a role in the most interesting and surprising nominating struggle in decades....
Meanwhile, local airwaves have been featuring ads on behalf of Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders, since the Democrats are still holding a traditional caucus at which participants get to signal their support for a candidate. It's known as democracy. ...
It's bad enough the two parties in Colorado don't have presidential primaries in which many more voters would participate. The caucuses already limit participation to a narrow slice of the electorate. But the fact that the Republican leadership then took matters a step further and deprived even that narrow slice of voters a voice in one of the most competitive, consequential political nominations in memory - and perhaps in history - is mindboggling.

So the distinction, as I gather it in Colorado, is that instead of the traditional caucus where the local precincts vote for a candidate and the consequences of that vote roll up to the top, the GOP attendees got to vote for delegates to go to a congressional convention and then they elected delegates to the state convention and at the state convention the delegates voted for a slate of delegates that backed candidates.

That is extremely NOT transparent and ANTI democratic.

The natl gop said in 2012 all state wide polls had to be binding. So on August 15, 2016 the colo gop said they wouldn't have the straw poll WHICH HAD NEVER BEEN BINDING IN THE FIRST FOCKING PLACE.

It's perfectly transparent, Jim, because everyone who BOTHERED TO LOOK knew in August 15 how it worked. It's perfectly democratic, Jim, because anyone BOTHERING TO VOTE CAN VOTE, so long as they registered as a republican.

 

[bendog]

Colorado's state party didn't want their delegates bound in March when some of the candidates still running would be gone long before the natl convention. So, they quit having the poll. But nothing shows this was done hurt the Donald, as he was probably still a dem at the time, and nothing shows he had much support amongst registered Colorado republican .....

The change was made in August of 2015, and Trump was ahead in Colorado polls.

post a link

 

[JimBowie1958]

Of course they are rigged, they are private institutions. They don't have to accept anyones' votes.

What I am learning in 2016 is the dumbshit billionaire who allegedly calls all the shots didn't bother to even compete for delegates because he didn't understand the established rules that existed before he ran for president. Putin would love him.

Putin has punked obama every way possible so far. What a stupid point of view. Plus, the point was that it's unfair, not that it was illegal. Dumb fuck.

 

[JimBowie1958]

The natl gop said in 2012 all state wide polls had to be binding. So on August 15, 2016 the colo gop said they wouldn't have the straw poll WHICH HAD NEVER BEEN BINDING IN THE FIRST FOCKING PLACE.

It's perfectly transparent, Jim, because everyone who BOTHERED TO LOOK knew in August 15 how it worked. It's perfectly democratic, Jim, because anyone BOTHERING TO VOTE CAN VOTE, so long as they registered as a republican.

Lol a tightly restricted 'caucus' that does not allow its precinct voters to vote for a candidate, but only unbound delegates is far from democratic, retard.

Your assertion that "anyone BOTHERING TO VOTE CAN VOTE," is just a riduculous lie.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Colorado's state party didn't want their delegates bound in March when some of the candidates still running would be gone long before the natl convention. So, they quit having the poll. But nothing shows this was done hurt the Donald, as he was probably still a dem at the time, and nothing shows he had much support amongst registered Colorado republican .....

The change was made in August of 2015, and Trump was ahead in Colorado polls.

post a link

no

 

[boilermaker55]

Everything in this country is rigged.
Economically and politically and judicially.

 

[Care4all]

were you upset that Al Gore won the popular vote but the electors and supreme court chose Bush?

Presidents have never been picked by the popular vote, our constitution specifies that we the people's vote, does not pick our President, electors do....

Primaries are no different with delegates.....

So it would be no big deal to you if the general election were canceled and the next President chosen by unbound delegates to the Electoral College?

who picks the electors?

The states select their delegates in varying ways, similar to how convention delegates are chosen.

Electoral College (United States) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

WOW! That is really complicated! I need to read it a few more times before I understand it!

 

[Montrovant]

If this election really leads to people having a better understand of how presidential candidates are chosen; if this election really leads to people voting for candidates outside the "establishment"; if this election really causes the parties to change the way they do business, I will consider it a good one, regardless of who wins the presidency.

However, a combination of past history and personal pessimism/cynicism lead me to doubt that anything will really change. Nor do I consider Trump and Sanders all that outside of the "establishment".

I also wonder if Ross Perot is right now sitting in an office, thinking, "I was anti-establishment! Not these assholes!".

 

[Tom Horn]

In my first civics class in 9th grade we were told a low voter turnout was a sign of people being satisfied with both parties exchanging chairs. Let's not lose our minds because Trump doesn't have a clue about running a national campaign and even less about how to run this government. There isn't a GOP candidate running this time who won't finish the fence, get rid of Barry-Care and ditch the deal with Iran. So why should there be this panic about Trump not getting the nomination? At least the others know something about the issues, not what they've heard on the Sunday morning talk shows.

 

[bendog]

If this election really leads to people having a better understand of how presidential candidates are chosen; if this election really leads to people voting for candidates outside the "establishment"; if this election really causes the parties to change the way they do business, I will consider it a good one, regardless of who wins the presidency.

However, a combination of past history and personal pessimism/cynicism lead me to doubt that anything will really change. Nor do I consider Trump and Sanders all that outside of the "establishment".

I also wonder if Ross Perot is right now sitting in an office, thinking, "I was anti-establishment! Not these assholes!".

Anderson was sort of the establishment candidate in 80, and I voted for him, because he knew Reagan was soft on deficits. And that was really Perot's thing too, and ironically Poppy had raised taxes.

I think Bernie's pretty far out there. He doesn't want to take over the banks, but he sure wants to manage them, imo.

And Donald ..... it's reality TV gone viral.

 

[Foxfyre]

can you say-----------democrat super delegates? Hmmmmm?

Why?

Not a single super Delegate has voted yet...

It doesn't matter at this point, Bernie IS NOT WINNING the vote of the people.... if he were winning the vote of the people, and won the vote of the people come the convention, and super delegates did not move the majority of their votes to the candidate who won in the primary citizenry votes, THEN AND ONLY THEN, would it matter and then and only then, could the Democratic Party be put on the same level of scuzziness as the Republican Party.

are you on planet earth?

on solid ground!

not ONE single Super Delegate has VOTED yet...some, not all, have voiced their support for a candidate, but like I've said, they have not taken a pledge to support any candidate...they can change their minds a hundred times before they actually vote in the convention.

Sure they can. But did you vote for a single super delegate? No. Did anybody vote for those super delegates? No. They are hand picked and instruments of the DNC to do the DNC's bidding. The only difference between them and what most of the GOP delegates are going to be is that the DNC is at least honest about it. The RNC is not.

They are instruments of the DNC as is any delegate of either party. The " do the bidding" part is only true insofar as delegates interests overlap with the interests of the party. I know it burns when you find out things don't work as you imagined but you'll get over it. No party has lied to you.There is no great conspiracy. The nomination process has always been the purview of the parties and not the voters.

Then again, why bother with elections to choose the party's candidate at all? Nobody has yet been able to explain that to me.

 

[Boss]

Then again, why bother with elections to choose the party's candidate at all? Nobody has yet been able to explain that to me.

Because elections often give the party an idea of where they stand with the core of their voters. Without that, they risk falling severely out of touch with their voters and losing in landslides. The point is, the Republican party nominates it's candidate through a specific party process. Because they are one of the two major parties, they can organize at the state levels and hold primaries and caucuses to help them strategize a national campaign. The entirety of their very complicated process does give much control of the party and it's direction to the party members. The keyword there being, party members and not the voting populace at large.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Why?

Not a single super Delegate has voted yet...

It doesn't matter at this point, Bernie IS NOT WINNING the vote of the people.... if he were winning the vote of the people, and won the vote of the people come the convention, and super delegates did not move the majority of their votes to the candidate who won in the primary citizenry votes, THEN AND ONLY THEN, would it matter and then and only then, could the Democratic Party be put on the same level of scuzziness as the Republican Party.

are you on planet earth?

on solid ground!

not ONE single Super Delegate has VOTED yet...some, not all, have voiced their support for a candidate, but like I've said, they have not taken a pledge to support any candidate...they can change their minds a hundred times before they actually vote in the convention.

Sure they can. But did you vote for a single super delegate? No. Did anybody vote for those super delegates? No. They are hand picked and instruments of the DNC to do the DNC's bidding. The only difference between them and what most of the GOP delegates are going to be is that the DNC is at least honest about it. The RNC is not.

They are instruments of the DNC as is any delegate of either party. The " do the bidding" part is only true insofar as delegates interests overlap with the interests of the party. I know it burns when you find out things don't work as you imagined but you'll get over it. No party has lied to you.There is no great conspiracy. The nomination process has always been the purview of the parties and not the voters.

Then again, why bother with elections to choose the party's candidate at all? Nobody has yet been able to explain that to me.

I'm happy to explain it to you.
There is no election in the primaries. What office are you electing a candidate to? Why would the people choose a party's candidate?