not the point, the point is that the American voters are finally waking up to the corruption in both parties-------------------that's why Trump and Sanders are getting so many votes-----------the people are fed up.
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2016: The Year Americans Found Out Their Elections Are Rigged
- Thread starter JimBowie1958
- Start date
not the point, the point is that the American voters are finally waking up to the corruption in both parties-------------------that's why Trump and Sanders are getting so many votes-----------the people are fed up.
BluesLegend
Diamond Member
2016: The Year Americans Found Out Their Elections Are Rigged
The two establishment parties have gone above and beyond to corrupt the election process so they can do whatever the hell they want without fear of being booted out of office. This is how these corrupt bastards hold onto their seat for 30-40 years. The result...pick an area of corruption and you will find politicians at the root of the corruption.
By their very nature, a political party is acting in their own interests and attempting to remain in power. Is this surprising to you?
Why would it be different?
We have the U.S. Constitution to protect us from these corrupt bastards and the trend is they are losing their grip on power.
Hutch Starskey
Diamond Member
- Mar 24, 2015
- 34,802
- 8,842
- 1,340
2016: The Year Americans Found Out Their Elections Are Rigged
The two establishment parties have gone above and beyond to corrupt the election process so they can do whatever the hell they want without fear of being booted out of office. This is how these corrupt bastards hold onto their seat for 30-40 years. The result...pick an area of corruption and you will find politicians at the root of the corruption.
By their very nature, a political party is acting in their own interests and attempting to remain in power. Is this surprising to you?
Why would it be different?
not the point, the point is that the American voters are finally waking up to the corruption in both parties-------------------that's why Trump and Sanders are getting so many votes-----------the people are fed up.
What corruption?
Hutch Starskey
Diamond Member
- Mar 24, 2015
- 34,802
- 8,842
- 1,340
2016: The Year Americans Found Out Their Elections Are Rigged
The two establishment parties have gone above and beyond to corrupt the election process so they can do whatever the hell they want without fear of being booted out of office. This is how these corrupt bastards hold onto their seat for 30-40 years. The result...pick an area of corruption and you will find politicians at the root of the corruption.
By their very nature, a political party is acting in their own interests and attempting to remain in power. Is this surprising to you?
Why would it be different?
We have the U.S. Constitution to protect us from these corrupt bastards and the trend is they are losing their grip on power.
How does the constitution protect you from the manner in which a political party apportions their delegates?
2016: The Year Americans Found Out Their Elections Are Rigged
The two establishment parties have gone above and beyond to corrupt the election process so they can do whatever the hell they want without fear of being booted out of office. This is how these corrupt bastards hold onto their seat for 30-40 years. The result...pick an area of corruption and you will find politicians at the root of the corruption.
By their very nature, a political party is acting in their own interests and attempting to remain in power. Is this surprising to you?
Why would it be different?
not the point, the point is that the American voters are finally waking up to the corruption in both parties-------------------that's why Trump and Sanders are getting so many votes-----------the people are fed up.
What corruption?
making the voters think they are involved in the nomination process.
BluesLegend
Diamond Member
2016: The Year Americans Found Out Their Elections Are Rigged
The two establishment parties have gone above and beyond to corrupt the election process so they can do whatever the hell they want without fear of being booted out of office. This is how these corrupt bastards hold onto their seat for 30-40 years. The result...pick an area of corruption and you will find politicians at the root of the corruption.
By their very nature, a political party is acting in their own interests and attempting to remain in power. Is this surprising to you?
Why would it be different?
We have the U.S. Constitution to protect us from these corrupt bastards and the trend is they are losing their grip on power.
How does the constitution protect you from the manner in which a political party apportions their delegates?
Just leave the heavy thinking to us and don't concern yourself with it.
Hutch Starskey
Diamond Member
- Mar 24, 2015
- 34,802
- 8,842
- 1,340
2016: The Year Americans Found Out Their Elections Are Rigged
The two establishment parties have gone above and beyond to corrupt the election process so they can do whatever the hell they want without fear of being booted out of office. This is how these corrupt bastards hold onto their seat for 30-40 years. The result...pick an area of corruption and you will find politicians at the root of the corruption.
By their very nature, a political party is acting in their own interests and attempting to remain in power. Is this surprising to you?
Why would it be different?
not the point, the point is that the American voters are finally waking up to the corruption in both parties-------------------that's why Trump and Sanders are getting so many votes-----------the people are fed up.
What corruption?
making the voters think they are involved in the nomination process.
Who ever said you were? Your education is your own responsibility.
Hutch Starskey
Diamond Member
- Mar 24, 2015
- 34,802
- 8,842
- 1,340
2016: The Year Americans Found Out Their Elections Are Rigged
The two establishment parties have gone above and beyond to corrupt the election process so they can do whatever the hell they want without fear of being booted out of office. This is how these corrupt bastards hold onto their seat for 30-40 years. The result...pick an area of corruption and you will find politicians at the root of the corruption.
By their very nature, a political party is acting in their own interests and attempting to remain in power. Is this surprising to you?
Why would it be different?
We have the U.S. Constitution to protect us from these corrupt bastards and the trend is they are losing their grip on power.
How does the constitution protect you from the manner in which a political party apportions their delegates?
Just leave the heavy thinking to us and don't concern yourself with it.
Heavy thinking?
More like just the opposite.
The two establishment parties have gone above and beyond to corrupt the election process so they can do whatever the hell they want without fear of being booted out of office. This is how these corrupt bastards hold onto their seat for 30-40 years. The result...pick an area of corruption and you will find politicians at the root of the corruption.
By their very nature, a political party is acting in their own interests and attempting to remain in power. Is this surprising to you?
Why would it be different?
not the point, the point is that the American voters are finally waking up to the corruption in both parties-------------------that's why Trump and Sanders are getting so many votes-----------the people are fed up.
What corruption?
making the voters think they are involved in the nomination process.
Who ever said you were? Your education is your own responsibility.
Until this year, most americans believed that their votes in the primaries had some influence in who got the nomination. Some of us understand that that was never the case, but the majority believed that it was.
Now, because of Trump and Sanders, the truth is coming out and lots of people are very pissed at both parties-------------and that's a good thing for the country.
Hutch Starskey
Diamond Member
- Mar 24, 2015
- 34,802
- 8,842
- 1,340
By their very nature, a political party is acting in their own interests and attempting to remain in power. Is this surprising to you?
Why would it be different?
not the point, the point is that the American voters are finally waking up to the corruption in both parties-------------------that's why Trump and Sanders are getting so many votes-----------the people are fed up.
What corruption?
making the voters think they are involved in the nomination process.
Who ever said you were? Your education is your own responsibility.
Until this year, most americans believed that their votes in the primaries had some influence in who got the nomination. Some of us understand that that was never the case, but the majority believed that it was.
Now, because of Trump and Sanders, the truth is coming out and lots of people are very pissed at both parties-------------and that's a good thing for the country.
Well most Americans were/are wrong. That in no way is corrupt behavior by either party.
That has been the process since the beginning. If people don't like it, then don't be affiliated with a party.
NYcarbineer
Diamond Member
We got a perfect example of how the voters don't decide elections in 2000,
via the electoral college system that by far a consensus of conservatives LOVE.
via the electoral college system that by far a consensus of conservatives LOVE.
not the point, the point is that the American voters are finally waking up to the corruption in both parties-------------------that's why Trump and Sanders are getting so many votes-----------the people are fed up.
What corruption?
making the voters think they are involved in the nomination process.
Who ever said you were? Your education is your own responsibility.
Until this year, most americans believed that their votes in the primaries had some influence in who got the nomination. Some of us understand that that was never the case, but the majority believed that it was.
Now, because of Trump and Sanders, the truth is coming out and lots of people are very pissed at both parties-------------and that's a good thing for the country.
Well most Americans were/are wrong. That in no way is corrupt behavior by either party.
That has been the process since the beginning. If people don't like it, then don't be affiliated with a party.
yes, most americans did not understand the process, now they do and that's a good thing.
We got a perfect example of how the voters don't decide elections in 2000,
via the electoral college system that by far a consensus of conservatives LOVE.
still crying that Bush beat your clowns twice------------tough shit.
JimBowie1958
Old Fogey
- Sep 25, 2011
- 63,590
- 16,756
- 2,220
- Thread starter
- #34
I agree to a degree....
First let me say, ''the establishment'' is just a softer synonym for ''the PARTY''...... it's 'THE PARTY, the Republican Party, that is doing this to Trump....and as long as you all hang on to this regurgitation of calling it 'the establishment' you are HIDING who is truly doing this....it is the Republican Party, the RNC/the GOP that is doing this to Mr. Trump....
It is NOT THE SAME with the DNC and Bernie....
no one in the Democratic party is trying to STOP sanders, there is no #NeverSanders movement as there is a #NeverTrump....
NO ONE in the Democratic Party is out there trying to belittle Bernie, as the Republican Party has put out there to belittle Trump....
Trump is winning in the votes of the people AHEAD of all other Republican candidates
Sanders is losing by 2MILLION votes of the people, against Hillary....
Trying to bring the Democratic Party in to this by the author, is just diminishing what the Republican Party HAS CHOSEN TO DO against Mr. Trump.
You make some great points here, but I dont think it is 100% accurate to say that Sanders is getting no suppression whatsoever.
When a candidate wins 7 of 8 contests and LOSES ground in the delegate count, or wins a state with 70% of the vote and still comes out with the minority of the delegates, it isnt exactly 'one man, one vote'.
The Democratic Party essentially practices Apartheid with socialists in their own party so the elite DC politicians can continue to sell their votes to corporate lobbyists with little blow back from voters.
IT is pretty much the same kind of thing with different methods in the GOP trying to derail Trump.
I agree to a degree....
First let me say, ''the establishment'' is just a softer synonym for ''the PARTY''...... it's 'THE PARTY, the Republican Party, that is doing this to Trump....and as long as you all hang on to this regurgitation of calling it 'the establishment' you are HIDING who is truly doing this....it is the Republican Party, the RNC/the GOP that is doing this to Mr. Trump....
It is NOT THE SAME with the DNC and Bernie....
no one in the Democratic party is trying to STOP sanders, there is no #NeverSanders movement as there is a #NeverTrump....
NO ONE in the Democratic Party is out there trying to belittle Bernie, as the Republican Party has put out there to belittle Trump....
Trump is winning in the votes of the people AHEAD of all other Republican candidates
Sanders is losing by 2MILLION votes of the people, against Hillary....
Trying to bring the Democratic Party in to this by the author, is just diminishing what the Republican Party HAS CHOSEN TO DO against Mr. Trump.
You make some great points here, but I dont think it is 100% accurate to say that Sanders is getting no suppression whatsoever.
When a candidate wins 7 of 8 contests and LOSES ground in the delegate count, or wins a state with 70% of the vote and still comes out with the minority of the delegates, it isnt exactly 'one man, one vote'.
The Democratic Party essentially practices Apartheid with socialists in their own party so the elite DC politicians can continue to sell their votes to corporate lobbyists with little blow back from voters.
IT is pretty much the same kind of thing with different methods in the GOP trying to derail Trump.
its not nice to confuse liberals with facts, facts make their little heads implode.
JimBowie1958
Old Fogey
- Sep 25, 2011
- 63,590
- 16,756
- 2,220
- Thread starter
- #36
The elections are not rigged in 2016 any more than they were rigged in previous years where the States abdocated (sp?) their responsibility to hold the elections to the various parties.
It's a very hard concept to wrap your head around but the framers never invisioned political parties managing elections, nominating conventions, majority/minority leaders, etc... It's hard because for our lifetimes (and likely those of your father) they have always been this way.
What should be happening is that there should be one ballot and you have everyone's name on it. Whomever gets a plurality would win. Now to ensure that the winner gets a majority (not a plurality), a runoff could be implemented but HRC and Donald Trump and Ted Cruz and Bernie Sanders should all be on one ballot. The polling place should be staffed by trained state election officials (not party trained officials) who secure each ballot into a locked case. Then that ballot should be sent to the State Capitol to where the Secretary of State's office counts the ballots (we do this electronically now but you get the picture). There shouldn't be one case for Repubicans and one case for Democrats and the only people who should ever touch the ballots or the containers should be the voter and the certified state election official at the polling place.
What Trump is bitching about is easily fixed; get rid of the party nominating conventions and let the best candidate win a wide-open contest.
But the system is what the system has always been for my voting life. You have parties, the parties make their rules to benefit themselves; all participants know the rules (or should) going in. If they don't, shame on them. HRC's manager in 2008 didn't understand the landscape anymore than Trump's people seem to and they ended up losing to Obama who had unbelieveable wonks working for him.
The complaints are childish.
Thank you for a reasonable post this time.
I think that the Federal government should reform the party system with uniform requirements and regional primaries, much as you describe.
We need to keep the Electoral College as a bullwark against voting fraud and corruption within a state from having an unmitigated affect across the whole country. Our electiosn would devolve into contests between who could rig a Diebold machine the most.
I would also have the top two candidates by vote participate in a two man run off a month later. Too many BAD candidate manage to squeak through with a plurality when their wiser opposition was divided among several candidates. Some would say that Trumps primary wins illustrate the concept.
JimBowie1958
Old Fogey
- Sep 25, 2011
- 63,590
- 16,756
- 2,220
- Thread starter
- #37
I agree to a degree....
First let me say, ''the establishment'' is just a softer synonym for ''the PARTY''...... it's 'THE PARTY, the Republican Party, that is doing this to Trump....and as long as you all hang on to this regurgitation of calling it 'the establishment' you are HIDING who is truly doing this....it is the Republican Party, the RNC/the GOP that is doing this to Mr. Trump....
It is NOT THE SAME with the DNC and Bernie....
no one in the Democratic party is trying to STOP sanders, there is no #NeverSanders movement as there is a #NeverTrump....
NO ONE in the Democratic Party is out there trying to belittle Bernie, as the Republican Party has put out there to belittle Trump....
Trump is winning in the votes of the people AHEAD of all other Republican candidates
Sanders is losing by 2MILLION votes of the people, against Hillary....
Trying to bring the Democratic Party in to this by the author, is just diminishing what the Republican Party HAS CHOSEN TO DO against Mr. Trump.
You make some great points here, but I dont think it is 100% accurate to say that Sanders is getting no suppression whatsoever.
When a candidate wins 7 of 8 contests and LOSES ground in the delegate count, or wins a state with 70% of the vote and still comes out with the minority of the delegates, it isnt exactly 'one man, one vote'.
The Democratic Party essentially practices Apartheid with socialists in their own party so the elite DC politicians can continue to sell their votes to corporate lobbyists with little blow back from voters.
IT is pretty much the same kind of thing with different methods in the GOP trying to derail Trump.
its not nice to confuse liberals with facts, facts make their little heads implode.
Care4All is a very reasonable liberal, not an ideological libtard.
NYcarbineer
Diamond Member
We got a perfect example of how the voters don't decide elections in 2000,
via the electoral college system that by far a consensus of conservatives LOVE.
still crying that Bush beat your clowns twice------------tough shit.
He won via a system that you people are now crying about, the system where who gets the most votes may still lose.
Wildman
Gold Member
The elections are not rigged in 2016 any more than they were rigged in previous years...
KornyKandy, in every year elections have been held, to some degree or another,,, they are RIGGED !!
NYcarbineer
Diamond Member
We got a perfect example of how the voters don't decide elections in 2000,
via the electoral college system that by far a consensus of conservatives LOVE.
still crying that Bush beat your clowns twice------------tough shit.
That's a hilarious post given that you just admitted being pissed at any system where the people's vote doesn't count.
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