$15 Minimum Wage Is Speeding Up the ERA of Automation

[thereisnospoon]

Unless you own a business, you have no clue what you're talking about.
Entry level work which pays entry level wages is NOT for support.
Live within your means.

Businesses would pay us all $1.00 an hour if we let them get away with it, whether we have skills or not. Which is why we have pilots selling their blood plasma and Adjuct Professors on food stamps.

If you can't afford to pay a living wage, you shouldn't be in business.

Right...And you keep hammering away with the same unsubstantiated talking points that bring your rhetoric to the level of the annoying buzz of a gnat flying about one's head.
If a business opened just to pay people you'd have a point. But since you have this entitlement mentality as though the world owes you something, here's a little refresher. The primary function of a business is to turn a profit for the owners and/or the investors.
I realize that in that tiny all or nothing straw man brain you have that means "screw you , I need to make a profit" it isn't the real world.
You have a "thing"...You despise wealth, and the entrepreneurial spirit. Yet to have come to depend upon those willing to take high risks so that you can earn a paycheck that allows you to buy a computer and internet access, so that you can trash the very system that provides you with these and other things.
You don't get to rise and sleep under the blanket of the risk takers and then question the means by which the risk takers provide you with the means.
If you want out, get out. Start your own business. Become the benevolent business owner you so longingly wish for.
Otherwise, just stop complaining

 

[thereisnospoon]

Low wages = low productivity. Higher wages = higher productivity. If you pretend to pay me, I pretend to work. THATS HOW THINGS WORK.

Well, that would be violating the terms of the agreement you made with your employer.
You don't get to say "yes, I accept" then after you find you had a lapse in judgement or you decided to create a couple of new kids go back to your boss and scream DO OVER!
No, any employer who finds a worker who is not pulling their weight will send that person packing and replace them with someone who will produce.
Pretend to pay? No, you accepted the employment agreement. You are getting paid the amount that YOU agreed to.....That's called a CHOICE

 

[thereisnospoon]

of course, those company's can not afford the investment and rely on $12 dollar an hour Q.C. folks.

Maybe we need to stop basing our economy on what is profitable for the 1%.

Let's go this route. The total GDP of the United States is 18 trillion. If you divide that up by the number of working age people, 243 million, then the average worker is producing $74,000 of value.

So that said, no, not everyone is being equally productive. But the distribution of wealth is not based on productivity. the 1% who control 43% of the wealth are not doing 43% of the producing, they are cheating those who do.

I merely propose that they cheat them a little bit less.

Ok,......This is a good one. Let's cut through the bullshit...You believe that the nation's wealth should be community owned by all.
BTW, your narrow focus on "productivity' appears to be ties only to tangible goods.
Here's a little newsflash for you....The owners of that plant in which you work do not collect a load of cash and shove it into an armored car bound for their fictitious mansion on a hill behind the iron gates. No, probably around 90% goes to expenses. Including YOUR salary.
The majority of the remainder is invested. That investment includes the business itself. The rest goes to others to invest for the purpose of making that money make them more money. In effect, they employ their wealth to produce for them. That function requires people with expertise to do that work....
If those investment people did not exist, your employer would have closed the doors long ago and you would be holding a cup of pencils....Which by the way is a prime example of the entrepreneurial spirit. When all else fails, find a way to make a living.
Of course those are the very people you come to USMB to trash on a daily basis.
I wish I could find out where you work( LOL) so I could show your employer the filth you post about them so they could go "Ok, so that's what he thinks...Good. He will collecting his belongings and will be escorted from the premises."
Better be careful what you say around the workplace, Joe. Somebody's always watching.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Why not demand a wage increase? Good for them. If they don't do it for themselves, who else will? You think businesses give a shit about their workers' struggles? I can assure you they don't. They'll lay their own Mothers off if they think they'll make an extra buck out of it. The world is rough, it sure ain't fair. Sometimes you have to demand yours. Businesses aren't gonna give you anything.

Oh puhleeze......
Demand......Why? Just because?...
You" I demand a wage increase"
Boss: "Excuse me?"
You: " I want more money. You should pay me more"
Boss: "when you can prove to me you've earned a pay raise, come back and see me".
You: "That's not going to work for me"
Boss: "then you are free to explore other employment options. Now, is there anything else you'd like to discuss?"
Conversation ended

They don't care about their workers' struggles. Like i said, they'd lay their own mothers off if they saw an extra buck in it. So, workers should demand theirs. Why not? The world just isn't fair. You have to fight for what you want. Because the harsh reality is, no one cares about your problems. It's all on you.

Who is "they".....
Define "fight"....
How about just doing what generations of other workers have done....That would be , for example, get an education. Learn a trade. Make one's self more valuable to their employer.
Move on to another company that is willing to pay them a higher wage....

During the Great Bush Recession of 2008 we were losing 700,000 jobs a month. Those people had trades, had education, they had been valuable to their employers for decades.......yet they were still told their services were no longer necessary

Spot On. And the Minimum Wage had absolutely nothing to do with it. It doesn't cause economic collapses. And it never will. The greedy usual suspects always predict End-Times when it's raised. They've been proven wrong every time, and they'll be proven wrong this time too. I don't give much credibility to people who are always wrong.

So? Then start a business and pay the lowest skilled laborer $25 per hour...Let us know how that works out for you

 

[paulitician]

Oh puhleeze......
Demand......Why? Just because?...
You" I demand a wage increase"
Boss: "Excuse me?"
You: " I want more money. You should pay me more"
Boss: "when you can prove to me you've earned a pay raise, come back and see me".
You: "That's not going to work for me"
Boss: "then you are free to explore other employment options. Now, is there anything else you'd like to discuss?"
Conversation ended

They don't care about their workers' struggles. Like i said, they'd lay their own mothers off if they saw an extra buck in it. So, workers should demand theirs. Why not? The world just isn't fair. You have to fight for what you want. Because the harsh reality is, no one cares about your problems. It's all on you.

Who is "they".....
Define "fight"....
How about just doing what generations of other workers have done....That would be , for example, get an education. Learn a trade. Make one's self more valuable to their employer.
Move on to another company that is willing to pay them a higher wage....

During the Great Bush Recession of 2008 we were losing 700,000 jobs a month. Those people had trades, had education, they had been valuable to their employers for decades.......yet they were still told their services were no longer necessary

Spot On. And the Minimum Wage had absolutely nothing to do with it. It doesn't cause economic collapses. And it never will. The greedy usual suspects always predict End-Times when it's raised. They've been proven wrong every time, and they'll be proven wrong this time too. I don't give much credibility to people who are always wrong.

So? Then start a business and pay the lowest skilled laborer $25 per hour...Let us know how that works out for you

No one has proposed a $25 Minimum Wage... Yet. It may happen someday though. And i'm pretty sure when it does, you angry old White Republican dudes will be screeching the same 'Sky is Falling' Bullshit. You guys are always wrong. So why should anyone listen to you?

 

[Socialist]

This is horrifying.. automation won't just affect fast food workers, and I am appalled that people are celebrating that millions will lose their employment, and then, the same people will be against them getting on the oh so horrid "food stamps" from the devil (I've seen rhetoric like this..) Yes, we've survived automation in the past, but nothing even close to the scale of what is coming, current economic models are not build to handle such automation, especially when the machines will literally be independent, apart from small amounts of maintenance, but even then, it's only a matter of time before we have machines doing the maintenance on other machines. It amazes me how labor has been crushed for the interests of capital, the dramatic shift that has happened, and continues to happen, it horrifies me, and I am disgusted.

So according to you, we should be building roads by hand. Not using robots to make automobiles. Eliminate all the machines that speed production. Get rid of computers.....
"MIllions"?.....Jesus Christ..
Go sell your straw man 1950's mentality somewhere else.

You clearly did not read my post. No, I don't think roads should be built by hands, in fact, we have machinery that is operated by workers today, and the robots we use usually require maintenance, control, overwatch, automation in the past has involved people controlling the machines, now, we're getting to a point where machines are more efficient then working people, and this results in a loss of work, since the machines can function on their own. Where the hell did I say I wanted to get rid of anything? It's an actual problem that current economic models won't be able to address, unless we move to a system like a basic income or a strong welfare state to offset the loss of jobs and increasing automation, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

You're advocating a European style welfare system...I E paying people who refuse to adapt to progress so that they don't have to work.
Contrary to popular belief even "happy" Denmark is having moderate to severe issues with its generous social welfare system.
Need you be reminded that Spain, Greece, Portugal, and France have been down the road toward fiscal insolvency due to massive their social safety nets?
And if one bothers to peel back the layers of the onion, they will discover that Germany, for the most part is funding the entire Euro Zone.

In a capitalist framework, I do advocate a welfare state, and what issues honey? Scandinavia is prime.

 

[OnePercenter]

And?.....Ok, here's a one question test...
Ready?
Q: What is the primary function of a business?

To provide a product or service.

 

[OnePercenter]

Yet Amazon employees 120,000 people. So much for automation.

Oh?......If there were no automation, Amazon would employ twice that number.
This does not apply to Amazon as their distribution centers are staffed by semi skilled and skilled workers. There are no positions for the fast food type worker.

If automation were anywhere close to what you loons believe it is, Amazon could run on a couple thousand people.

Pickers in a distribution are somehow different than fast food workers? How so?

re read my previous post.
Amazon does not hire low level no skill workers.

How much skill does it take to pick an item and put it into a basket or fries into a bag?

Fries are not served at Amazon

Wanna bet!

Amazon.com Andy Capp s Big Bag Fries Hot 8-Ounce Pack of 8

 

[OnePercenter]

Unless you own a business, you have no clue what you're talking about.
Entry level work which pays entry level wages is NOT for support.
Live within your means.

Wouldn't a Resident Physician be 'entry level?'

Stop being a pain in the ass.

Shoving your talking points is quite entertaining.

 

[OnePercenter]

Millions?......I told you ten thousand times not exaggerate.
I asked for proof. Not hyperbole

Yes, Millions. If you have differing numbers, please post.

You made the claim. YOU support it with facts.....I'm not doing your work for you

Post 184. Killed two loons with one post. The NRA would be proud!

Ok...don't support your claim.....Yer done...
I looked at your game here. You argue just to argue.
Bugger off.

On top of that, the restaurant chains often make sure you have at least a few hundred-thousand dollars to your name before you even fill out a franchisee application. Most national and international fast food chains require that franchisees have several hundred-thousand dollars—if not millions—in net worth and liquid assets.

What does it cost to open a fast food franchise

 

[JoeB131]

Right...And you keep hammering away with the same unsubstantiated talking points that bring your rhetoric to the level of the annoying buzz of a gnat flying about one's head.
If a business opened just to pay people you'd have a point. But since you have this entitlement mentality as though the world owes you something, here's a little refresher. The primary function of a business is to turn a profit for the owners and/or the investors.
I realize that in that tiny all or nothing straw man brain you have that means "screw you , I need to make a profit" it isn't the real world.

Guy, here's the thing. We shouldn't base our economy on what is just good for the 1% that own businesses. seriously, the world works a lot better when everyone is well-paid for their labor.

If those investment people did not exist, your employer would have closed the doors long ago and you would be holding a cup of pencils....Which by the way is a prime example of the entrepreneurial spirit. When all else fails, find a way to make a living.

Investors are parasites that have convinced stupid people like you they are a vital organ.

 

[OnePercenter]

Nope..Those and public safety are essential functions of government.
In a manner of speaking we decide to live in a certain place we make a pseudo "social contract"...In exchange, we are levied taxes.....In your world, any and all types of social programs you invent should be lumped in because in your mind "well, we already have the social contract, why not take it and run with it"......

'Essential functions of government' paid for by monies placed into a pot by all = Socialist ideal.

 

[JoeB131]

Ok,......This is a good one. Let's cut through the bullshit...You believe that the nation's wealth should be community owned by all.

Nope, didn't say that... but let's move on.

BTW, your narrow focus on "productivity' appears to be ties only to tangible goods.
Here's a little newsflash for you....The owners of that plant in which you work do not collect a load of cash and shove it into an armored car bound for their fictitious mansion on a hill behind the iron gates. No, probably around 90% goes to expenses. Including YOUR salary.

Well, I don't work for an American company, so they don't have the fucked up Dressage Horsie and Mansions mentality American companies have.

The majority of the remainder is invested. That investment includes the business itself. The rest goes to others to invest for the purpose of making that money make them more money. In effect, they employ their wealth to produce for them. That function requires people with expertise to do that work....

Like I said. Parasites that have convinced you they are a vital organ.

If those investment people did not exist, your employer would have closed the doors long ago and you would be holding a cup of pencils....Which by the way is a prime example of the entrepreneurial spirit. When all else fails, find a way to make a living.
Of course those are the very people you come to USMB to trash on a daily basis.

Yes, I trash parasites who add nothing to the economy. And often fuck it up, in case you were asleep in 2008.

I wish I could find out where you work( LOL) so I could show your employer the filth you post about them so they could go "Ok, so that's what he thinks...Good. He will collecting his belongings and will be escorted from the premises."
Better be careful what you say around the workplace, Joe. Somebody's always watching.

My co-workers know my political leanings, thanks. They also know they'd have to hire three people to replace me.

 

[KissMy]

If you don't make minimum wage why do you want to pay more?

Why don't you cheap skates just tip? No law against that.

We will be paying less, not more! Government is already paying people to take my money & give it to underpaid workers & their families covering difference between their wage & $24,000. I am tired of paying for someone else's workers. I already pay for my own workers. My business also suffers when these workers have less money to spend.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Oh puhleeze......
Demand......Why? Just because?...
You" I demand a wage increase"
Boss: "Excuse me?"
You: " I want more money. You should pay me more"
Boss: "when you can prove to me you've earned a pay raise, come back and see me".
You: "That's not going to work for me"
Boss: "then you are free to explore other employment options. Now, is there anything else you'd like to discuss?"
Conversation ended

How that conversation should go.

Government: "Sorry, you should pay him more. NOw do so or I come back with my buddies, OSHA, IRS and EEOC."

The liberal/progressive alphabet gestapo. Robbery at the point of a gun is a crime if anyone else does it.

 

[GHook93]

Guy, here's the thing. We shouldn't base our economy on what is just good for the 1% that own businesses. seriously, the world works a lot better when everyone is well-paid for their labor.

Investors are parasites that have convinced stupid people like you they are a vital organ.

True but how do you spread the wealth via central planning without all the negative effects that go along with it?

Investors usually provide the capital necessary to start-up or expand a business.

In the end, if automation continues to decimate the job market, then I don't see how centrally planned economy will be avoided. If there are no job because machines are doing so many of the jobs that people would do, then do we just let the vast majority of the population become homeless or starve? Not going to happen!

 

[JoeB131]

True but how do you spread the wealth via central planning without all the negative effects that go along with it?

Investors usually provide the capital necessary to start-up or expand a business.

That might have been true in the past, but really, what you have now is capital just making more money, not actually producing goods and services, and that's the problem. It's why you can have a stock market lose 50% of the value in a few weeks because most of that money is imaginary, it doesn't represent anything. It's what we saw in the Dot-Com crash in 2000, and it's what we saw in the Housing Bubble in 2008.

In the end, if automation continues to decimate the job market, then I don't see how centrally planned economy will be avoided. If there are no job because machines are doing so many of the jobs that people would do, then do we just let the vast majority of the population become homeless or starve? Not going to happen!

No, we aren't. so the question becomes, what do we do with them. There's plenty of things that NEED to be done, and aren't.

So when you got 42% of the wealth in the hands of the 1% just making more imaginary money wh ile the bottom 40% are fighting over a mere .6% of the wealth, how does that not lead to the kind of socialism that you guys crap you pants over.

The thing about the Union Household that you guys have worked very hard to destroy over the last 40 years is that it tended to be very conservative. My Dad was a staunch Union Guy, but he voted for Nixon and pretty much stuck up for Nixon even after he resigned. In short, a well-paid manual laborer has as much stake in conservative social, security and economic values as a 1%er checking out his new Dressage Horse.

 

[Jarlaxle]

I have to admit every person that I've ever seen fired and then sue the company sure they had a. Sure they were picked on sure it wasn't fair but what pussies life isn't fair if they don't want you there pick your s*** up and go get a new job

Fucking WHAT?!?! Seriously: is this even ENGLISH?

 

[JoeB131]

The liberal/progressive alphabet gestapo. Robbery at the point of a gun is a crime if anyone else does it.

Here's the thing, guy. I'm glad there's an OSHA. I am glad that my employer is required to make sure that the workplace is kept safe. I'm glad there's an EPA making sure htey aren't putting shit in my drinking water.

I'm glad there's an IRS making sure he pays his fair share in taxes.

I'm glad there's a department of labor making sure he doesn't find other ways to cheat me.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Guy, here's the thing. We shouldn't base our economy on what is just good for the 1% that own businesses. seriously, the world works a lot better when everyone is well-paid for their labor.

Well, Joe....

Just how do you base it on anything else ?

The 1% own the place...they make the rules.