$15 Minimum Wage Is Speeding Up the ERA of Automation

[JoeB131]

I on the other hand at 18 in 1983 started a full time job in a plastic plant as an operator making $4 bucks an hour (MW was $3.35) I busted my ass at that small company, became a setup guy, then got in mold processing , went to night school, became a shift supervisor at 20 making $10 bucks an hour, quit and got a job with a japenesse company making 40 grand a year with a company car and an expense account.@21 year's old.

Yeah. Funny that, you didn't start doing well until you worked for a company based in a country that has a social democracy based on not cheating their workers. Funny how that works out.

 

[Wyatt earp]

of course, those company's can not afford the investment and rely on $12 dollar an hour Q.C. folks.

Maybe we need to stop basing our economy on what is profitable for the 1%.

Let's go this route. The total GDP of the United States is 18 trillion. If you divide that up by the number of working age people, 243 million, then the average worker is producing $74,000 of value.

So that said, no, not everyone is being equally productive. But the distribution of wealth is not based on productivity. the 1% who control 43% of the wealth are not doing 43% of the producing, they are cheating those who do.

I merely propose that they cheat them a little bit less.

Joe, I don't disagree with that, but how do you do it? Hell with all my experience and working around dummys all the time who make just as much as me and call me on the radio and all I do is trip a breaker or telling an idiot manager that "No you can not run that machine with the guard off" I should be making $200,000 a year.

But I don't lose sleep over it. What I did was I moved out of Chicago, I can't beat the mega rich but I could beat high rent and taxes.

 

[Wyatt earp]

I on the other hand at 18 in 1983 started a full time job in a plastic plant as an operator making $4 bucks an hour (MW was $3.35) I busted my ass at that small company, became a setup guy, then got in mold processing , went to night school, became a shift supervisor at 20 making $10 bucks an hour, quit and got a job with a japenesse company making 40 grand a year with a company car and an expense account.@21 year's old.

Yeah. Funny that, you didn't start doing well until you worked for a company based in a country that has a social democracy based on not cheating their workers. Funny how that works out.

Cinncinati and now the defunked Van Dorn out of Ohio wanted me also. But I wanted to go to Japan. Their technology was better at the time.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Btw remember I was still a liberal back then, Joe, with a strong drive and still partied on the weekends. The coke and woman were great back then

 

[paulitician]

Yeah, i'll never get them rooting for Americans to make less money and be unemployed. Their hateful greed has driven them mad. More Americans poor and unemployed will not be a good thing.

They won't just magically disappear. They'll still be here and will have to be dealt with. There's a whole lotta flaws in their Robot-Revolution fantasy.

I cannot believe there are people such as yourself who call themselves "intelligent" that believe this nonsense.
Ypu're not thinking this through.
Let's say for a moment that the min wage for these no skill fast food and service workers are given these federally mandated wages.....Just what do you think skilled and educated workers who have busted their asses to get to the wage levels which they EARNED are going to say about this?
Do you think they will just sit there and go "uhh, ok. Now the guy that flips burgers in a fast food joint is making almost as much as me"....
Do you not think those people are going to demand a wage increase in proportion to the new wage?...

Why not demand a wage increase? Good for them. If they don't do it for themselves, who else will? You think businesses give a shit about their workers' struggles? I can assure you they don't. They'll lay their own Mothers off if they think they'll make an extra buck out of it. The world is rough, it sure ain't fair. Sometimes you have to demand yours. Businesses aren't gonna give you anything.

Oh puhleeze......
Demand......Why? Just because?...
You" I demand a wage increase"
Boss: "Excuse me?"
You: " I want more money. You should pay me more"
Boss: "when you can prove to me you've earned a pay raise, come back and see me".
You: "That's not going to work for me"
Boss: "then you are free to explore other employment options. Now, is there anything else you'd like to discuss?"
Conversation ended

They don't care about their workers' struggles. Like i said, they'd lay their own mothers off if they saw an extra buck in it. So, workers should demand theirs. Why not? The world just isn't fair. You have to fight for what you want. Because the harsh reality is, no one cares about your problems. It's all on you.

Who is "they".....
Define "fight"....
How about just doing what generations of other workers have done....That would be , for example, get an education. Learn a trade. Make one's self more valuable to their employer.
Move on to another company that is willing to pay them a higher wage....

It's a cold ugly world out there. No one cares about you and your struggles. So you better fight to get yours. American Workers just need to get better organized. Once they start doing that, they'll gain some leverage. It's all about leverage. Businesses understand that. Once organized, they have to listen. They don't have a choice.

 

[Darkwind]

Could we end automation by requiring Americans to work for free?

That's a GREAT idea...Imagine the profit margins.

Is your brain not functioning?......Few people with average intelligence would be unable to recognize an absurdity used to make a point....
So has your IQ been tested and the outcome that which resembles room temperature?

My IQ is in the top 2 percent of humanity. Where's yours?

Thanks for the chuckle.

 

[paulitician]

I cannot believe there are people such as yourself who call themselves "intelligent" that believe this nonsense.
Ypu're not thinking this through.
Let's say for a moment that the min wage for these no skill fast food and service workers are given these federally mandated wages.....Just what do you think skilled and educated workers who have busted their asses to get to the wage levels which they EARNED are going to say about this?
Do you think they will just sit there and go "uhh, ok. Now the guy that flips burgers in a fast food joint is making almost as much as me"....
Do you not think those people are going to demand a wage increase in proportion to the new wage?...

Why not demand a wage increase? Good for them. If they don't do it for themselves, who else will? You think businesses give a shit about their workers' struggles? I can assure you they don't. They'll lay their own Mothers off if they think they'll make an extra buck out of it. The world is rough, it sure ain't fair. Sometimes you have to demand yours. Businesses aren't gonna give you anything.

Oh puhleeze......
Demand......Why? Just because?...
You" I demand a wage increase"
Boss: "Excuse me?"
You: " I want more money. You should pay me more"
Boss: "when you can prove to me you've earned a pay raise, come back and see me".
You: "That's not going to work for me"
Boss: "then you are free to explore other employment options. Now, is there anything else you'd like to discuss?"
Conversation ended

They don't care about their workers' struggles. Like i said, they'd lay their own mothers off if they saw an extra buck in it. So, workers should demand theirs. Why not? The world just isn't fair. You have to fight for what you want. Because the harsh reality is, no one cares about your problems. It's all on you.

Who is "they".....
Define "fight"....
How about just doing what generations of other workers have done....That would be , for example, get an education. Learn a trade. Make one's self more valuable to their employer.
Move on to another company that is willing to pay them a higher wage....

During the Great Bush Recession of 2008 we were losing 700,000 jobs a month. Those people had trades, had education, they had been valuable to their employers for decades.......yet they were still told their services were no longer necessary

Spot On. And the Minimum Wage had absolutely nothing to do with it. It doesn't cause economic collapses. And it never will. The greedy usual suspects always predict End-Times when it's raised. They've been proven wrong every time, and they'll be proven wrong this time too. I don't give much credibility to people who are always wrong.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Why not demand a wage increase? Good for them. If they don't do it for themselves, who else will? You think businesses give a shit about their workers' struggles? I can assure you they don't. They'll lay their own Mothers off if they think they'll make an extra buck out of it. The world is rough, it sure ain't fair. Sometimes you have to demand yours. Businesses aren't gonna give you anything.

Oh puhleeze......
Demand......Why? Just because?...
You" I demand a wage increase"
Boss: "Excuse me?"
You: " I want more money. You should pay me more"
Boss: "when you can prove to me you've earned a pay raise, come back and see me".
You: "That's not going to work for me"
Boss: "then you are free to explore other employment options. Now, is there anything else you'd like to discuss?"
Conversation ended

They don't care about their workers' struggles. Like i said, they'd lay their own mothers off if they saw an extra buck in it. So, workers should demand theirs. Why not? The world just isn't fair. You have to fight for what you want. Because the harsh reality is, no one cares about your problems. It's all on you.

Who is "they".....
Define "fight"....
How about just doing what generations of other workers have done....That would be , for example, get an education. Learn a trade. Make one's self more valuable to their employer.
Move on to another company that is willing to pay them a higher wage....

During the Great Bush Recession of 2008 we were losing 700,000 jobs a month. Those people had trades, had education, they had been valuable to their employers for decades.......yet they were still told their services were no longer necessary

Spot On. And the Minimum Wage had absolutely nothing to do with it. It doesn't cause economic collapses. And it never will. The greedy usual suspects always predict End-Times when it's raised. They've been proven wrong every time, and they'll be proven wrong this time too. I don't give much credibility to people who are always wrong.

Neither will eliminating the MW in the USA in the year 2015, it would help out children competing for jobs with 29 year olds or are you one of those losers who still make minimum wage?

Which is it?

 

[paulitician]

They don't care about their workers' struggles. Like i said, they'd lay their own mothers off if they saw an extra buck in it. So, workers should demand theirs. Why not? The world just isn't fair. You have to fight for what you want. Because the harsh reality is, no one cares about your problems. It's all on you.

Who is "they".....
Define "fight"....
How about just doing what generations of other workers have done....That would be , for example, get an education. Learn a trade. Make one's self more valuable to their employer.
Move on to another company that is willing to pay them a higher wage....

During the Great Bush Recession of 2008 we were losing 700,000 jobs a month. Those people had trades, had education, they had been valuable to their employers for decades.......yet they were still told their services were no longer necessary

Obama told us this would be "the new normal"..Pelosi said :"embrace the suck"...
Stop whining.

I have a feeling you pulled that one out of your ass

Got a credible source?

Obama s Unemployment New Normal Foretells A Lost Decade - Forbes
snip
A quick look at the BLS Household Survey showed that, rather than being bad, December was actually a better-than-average month in President Obama’s “new normal” economy. This is not a huge accomplishment, given that “Obama’s new normal” comprises slow GDP growth, a stagnant jobs market, and falling real household incomes.
You do realize the last quarter showed a negative 0.7% GDP growth rate? If this quarter comes up short, it's technically a recession. Who needs THAT?
Ok...Pelosi was referring to the federal budget when she used 'embrace the suck'...Not related to the economy

Again, nothing to do with the Minimum Wage. You guys are just always wrong. So why should anyone listen to you when you cry wolf? Your 'It's always the Workers' fault' theory, is deeply flawed. I would even call it BULLSHIT!

 

[Wyatt earp]

The only ones that want to raise the MW is folks who make MW and sit around Fucking up your order while texting at McDonald's, the others are trying to buy votes.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Who is "they".....
Define "fight"....
How about just doing what generations of other workers have done....That would be , for example, get an education. Learn a trade. Make one's self more valuable to their employer.
Move on to another company that is willing to pay them a higher wage....

During the Great Bush Recession of 2008 we were losing 700,000 jobs a month. Those people had trades, had education, they had been valuable to their employers for decades.......yet they were still told their services were no longer necessary

Obama told us this would be "the new normal"..Pelosi said :"embrace the suck"...
Stop whining.

I have a feeling you pulled that one out of your ass

Got a credible source?

Obama s Unemployment New Normal Foretells A Lost Decade - Forbes
snip
A quick look at the BLS Household Survey showed that, rather than being bad, December was actually a better-than-average month in President Obama’s “new normal” economy. This is not a huge accomplishment, given that “Obama’s new normal” comprises slow GDP growth, a stagnant jobs market, and falling real household incomes.
You do realize the last quarter showed a negative 0.7% GDP growth rate? If this quarter comes up short, it's technically a recession. Who needs THAT?
Ok...Pelosi was referring to the federal budget when she used 'embrace the suck'...Not related to the economy

Again, nothing to do with the Minimum Wage. You guys are just always wrong. So why should anyone listen to you when you cry wolf? Your 'It's always the Workers' fault' theory, is deeply flawed. I would even call it BULLSHIT!

why after all these years you still make minimum wage?

Sounds like a personal problem to me.

 

[Wyatt earp]

If you don't make minimum wage why do you want to pay more?

Why don't you cheap skates just tip? No law against that.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Put your charity where your mouth is.

 

[thereisnospoon]

This is horrifying.. automation won't just affect fast food workers, and I am appalled that people are celebrating that millions will lose their employment, and then, the same people will be against them getting on the oh so horrid "food stamps" from the devil (I've seen rhetoric like this..) Yes, we've survived automation in the past, but nothing even close to the scale of what is coming, current economic models are not build to handle such automation, especially when the machines will literally be independent, apart from small amounts of maintenance, but even then, it's only a matter of time before we have machines doing the maintenance on other machines. It amazes me how labor has been crushed for the interests of capital, the dramatic shift that has happened, and continues to happen, it horrifies me, and I am disgusted.

So according to you, we should be building roads by hand. Not using robots to make automobiles. Eliminate all the machines that speed production. Get rid of computers.....
"MIllions"?.....Jesus Christ..
Go sell your straw man 1950's mentality somewhere else.

You clearly did not read my post. No, I don't think roads should be built by hands, in fact, we have machinery that is operated by workers today, and the robots we use usually require maintenance, control, overwatch, automation in the past has involved people controlling the machines, now, we're getting to a point where machines are more efficient then working people, and this results in a loss of work, since the machines can function on their own. Where the hell did I say I wanted to get rid of anything? It's an actual problem that current economic models won't be able to address, unless we move to a system like a basic income or a strong welfare state to offset the loss of jobs and increasing automation, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

You're advocating a European style welfare system...I E paying people who refuse to adapt to progress so that they don't have to work.
Contrary to popular belief even "happy" Denmark is having moderate to severe issues with its generous social welfare system.
Need you be reminded that Spain, Greece, Portugal, and France have been down the road toward fiscal insolvency due to massive their social safety nets?
And if one bothers to peel back the layers of the onion, they will discover that Germany, for the most part is funding the entire Euro Zone.

 

[thereisnospoon]

This is horrifying.. automation won't just affect fast food workers, and I am appalled that people are celebrating that millions will lose their employment, and then, the same people will be against them getting on the oh so horrid "food stamps" from the devil (I've seen rhetoric like this..) Yes, we've survived automation in the past, but nothing even close to the scale of what is coming, current economic models are not build to handle such automation, especially when the machines will literally be independent, apart from small amounts of maintenance, but even then, it's only a matter of time before we have machines doing the maintenance on other machines. It amazes me how labor has been crushed for the interests of capital, the dramatic shift that has happened, and continues to happen, it horrifies me, and I am disgusted.

So according to you, we should be building roads by hand. Not using robots to make automobiles. Eliminate all the machines that speed production. Get rid of computers.....
"MIllions"?.....Jesus Christ..
Go sell your straw man 1950's mentality somewhere else.

You clearly did not read my post. No, I don't think roads should be built by hands, in fact, we have machinery that is operated by workers today, and the robots we use usually require maintenance, control, overwatch, automation in the past has involved people controlling the machines, now, we're getting to a point where machines are more efficient then working people, and this results in a loss of work, since the machines can function on their own. Where the hell did I say I wanted to get rid of anything? It's an actual problem that current economic models won't be able to address, unless we move to a system like a basic income or a strong welfare state to offset the loss of jobs and increasing automation, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

He hasn't figured out 'socialist ideals' either. Although he does use them.

Oh? Which ones?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Of course they do. But that's two people where there may have been ten people. There will still be employees, just way fewer of them and very well paid.

Reducing employees increases the net of the company. Period.

And?.....Ok, here's a one question test...
Ready?
Q: What is the primary function of a business?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Wal Mart is folliwing Amazon in automating bagging and packing.

Yet Amazon employees 120,000 people. So much for automation.

Oh?......If there were no automation, Amazon would employ twice that number.
This does not apply to Amazon as their distribution centers are staffed by semi skilled and skilled workers. There are no positions for the fast food type worker.

If automation were anywhere close to what you loons believe it is, Amazon could run on a couple thousand people.

Pickers in a distribution are somehow different than fast food workers? How so?

re read my previous post.
Amazon does not hire low level no skill workers.

How much skill does it take to pick an item and put it into a basket or fries into a bag?

Fries are not served at Amazon

 

[thereisnospoon]

Unless you own a business, you have no clue what you're talking about.
Entry level work which pays entry level wages is NOT for support.
Live within your means.

Wouldn't a Resident Physician be 'entry level?'

Stop being a pain in the ass.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Millions?......I told you ten thousand times not exaggerate.
I asked for proof. Not hyperbole

Yes, Millions. If you have differing numbers, please post.

You made the claim. YOU support it with facts.....I'm not doing your work for you

Post 184. Killed two loons with one post. The NRA would be proud!

Ok...don't support your claim.....Yer done...
I looked at your game here. You argue just to argue.
Bugger off.

 

[thereisnospoon]

This is horrifying.. automation won't just affect fast food workers, and I am appalled that people are celebrating that millions will lose their employment, and then, the same people will be against them getting on the oh so horrid "food stamps" from the devil (I've seen rhetoric like this..) Yes, we've survived automation in the past, but nothing even close to the scale of what is coming, current economic models are not build to handle such automation, especially when the machines will literally be independent, apart from small amounts of maintenance, but even then, it's only a matter of time before we have machines doing the maintenance on other machines. It amazes me how labor has been crushed for the interests of capital, the dramatic shift that has happened, and continues to happen, it horrifies me, and I am disgusted.

So according to you, we should be building roads by hand. Not using robots to make automobiles. Eliminate all the machines that speed production. Get rid of computers.....
"MIllions"?.....Jesus Christ..
Go sell your straw man 1950's mentality somewhere else.

You clearly did not read my post. No, I don't think roads should be built by hands, in fact, we have machinery that is operated by workers today, and the robots we use usually require maintenance, control, overwatch, automation in the past has involved people controlling the machines, now, we're getting to a point where machines are more efficient then working people, and this results in a loss of work, since the machines can function on their own. Where the hell did I say I wanted to get rid of anything? It's an actual problem that current economic models won't be able to address, unless we move to a system like a basic income or a strong welfare state to offset the loss of jobs and increasing automation, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

He hasn't figured out 'socialist ideals' either. Although he does use them.

The only "socialist" ideal is common ownership of production, that is all socialism is, at it's core. Medicare is not socialism, nor is social security. People are stupid..

Streetlights? Roadways?

Nope..Those and public safety are essential functions of government.
In a manner of speaking we decide to live in a certain place we make a pseudo "social contract"...In exchange, we are levied taxes.....In your world, any and all types of social programs you invent should be lumped in because in your mind "well, we already have the social contract, why not take it and run with it"......