12 year old, 15 year old shot in London, where guns are banned and confiscated

[2aguy]

Thanks for this thread. It’s important that we know about every gun death that happens in Britain. Very important.

Yes...it is, when people like you want to do what they did in Britain, banning and confiscating guns.......and after doing it, seeing what happens to gun crime rates....they go up, not down.

 

[2aguy]

Gun control doesn't work worth a damn, unless it's Federal Law. State gun-control is meaningless, when any gun-toting fool can get in his car and drive clear across the country to shoot someone.
Australia has Federal gun control, and, like Britain, when there's a shooting, it's national news.
In our sorry country, it's 'Meh, so what?', unless at least 5 people are shot down in one incident.

Gun crime is going up in Australia too...another island nation that banned and confiscated guns, and now their gun crime rates are going up....

And they still have public shootings in Australia, no matter how often they lie about that.

 

[toobfreak]

If only gun nuts put as much effort into bettering themselves and their families as they did into caring and protecting their precious guns.

I swear, if a gun nut had to choose between his guns and his children...he would actually hesitate before answering.

What exactly do you mean by the term, "gun nut?"

What is a "gun nut?"

A gun nut is NOT someone who merely owns guns. There are lots of gun enthusaists who are not gun nuts. I own and use guns myself. Some of the identifying charactoristics of a gun nut include, but aren't limited to
1. A person who feels he should be armed any time he is in public. Some do it because they are cowards and fear interaction with the real world, or they use it as compensation for lack of masculine charactoristics they wish they had, or to try to make others believe they are as masculine as they want the world to believe they are. Some just do it as a fashion statement. Nobody has a need to be armed 24/7 nless they are a member of the military, and deployed in a combat area.
2. Someone who cares more about enjoying their gun fettish than they do about the safety of others around them. (see #1)
3. Someone who uses guns to make a political statement. "I'm a right winger. Right wingers are gun nuts, so I'll adopt the accepted gun nut strategy to show unity with my political party."
4. Some just want to feel like they are part of a movement. Doesn't really matter what that movement might be, but it helps them to not feel so alone.

Lots of other behaviors could classify someone as a gun nut, but those seem to be the top identifying charactoristics I notice when dealing with gun nuts.

Just curious Bulldog, in your defining of a "gun nut":

1). "A person who feels he should be armed any time he is in public. Some do it because they are cowards and fear interaction with the real world, or they use it as compensation for lack of masculine charactoristics they wish they had, or to try to make others believe they are as masculine as they want the world to believe they are. Some just do it as a fashion statement. Nobody has a need to be armed 24/7 nless they are a member of the military, and deployed in a combat area."

Have you or someone else done a psychological study to back any of that up? And how is it a fashion statement when concealed carry cannot be seen by others? And considering that military do not carry on bases, then by your reasoning, NO ONE needs carry on the street? That is, except the criminal element. Or is this just more male bashing / inferiority complex / resentment by you (I notice you don't assume any WOMEN might wish to carry full time on the street)?

2). Someone who cares more about enjoying their gun fettish than they do about the safety of others around them.

So by inference then, you are saying that people who carry concealed for personal protection actually pose a threat or risk to others on the street? Do you have documentation to show cases where people were carrying and were involved in a crime scene and DID NOT come to the aid of others but chose to only think of themselves?

3. Someone who uses guns to make a political statement.

How do you make a "political statement" with concealed carry when by its very nature, it does not show to others? What do you do, yell out to crowds: "Hey! I'm carrying a gun just to make a political statement?"

If these are how you define being a "gun nut," it suggests to me you don't know the first thing about the subject.

 

[2aguy]

Two more shootings this week.....a 12 year old and a 15 year old, both boys, in London, in a country, an island, that banned and confiscated guns.....


They were shot, but not killed, so anti gunners will come here and say...but....but.... the murder rate in Britain is lower than the U.S....... in an attempt to hide the fact that gun crime in Britain is going up..... 20 years after they banned and confiscated guns........and it has been going up ever since the ban...and it is accelerating...



Two children aged 12 and 15 shot in Harrow, northwest London

Two boys have been shot minutes apart from each other in Harrow, northwest London.

Police were called just minutes apart, at 1.17pm, to the shootings at two locations in close proximity in High Street, Wealdstone.

A 15-year-old boy was found with a gun shot wound.



Two minutes later at a different but nearby location in High Street, a 12-year-old boy was also treated for gunshot wounds.

Both boys were taken to hospital and police said they await details of their condition.

Hey....anti gunners......which British gun control law has stopped this shooter from walking into a school and murdering children?

So, what are you getting at? Just how insidious guns are? Or how ineffective and incompetent British law enforcement is?

The points are these...

1) gun control laws only effect law abiding gun owners, criminals ignore them even on island nations.

2) banning and confiscating guns for law abiding gun owners does not lower the gun crime or murder rate

3) Gun crime is not static. Gun crime is created by the criminal culture in society, and for most of it's history, due to feudalism, and 2 world wars, violence in Britain was very low. Now it is changing, the welfare state has destroyed the British family, as it did to our families in democrats controlled cities, and the importing of violent 3rd world criminals is increasing the gun crime rate there.

4) As our own experience shows....law abiding people owning and carrying guns does not increase the gun crime rate, the violent crime rate or the gun murder rate.

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

5) The core argument, the primary argument of anti gun extremists is that more guns = more gun crime....the example from Britain, where they banned and confiscated guns and gun crime keeps increasing, and our own experience, where more people now own and actually carry guns and our gun murder rate went down, our gun crime rate went down and our violent crime rate went down, shows that this core argument is wrong...it is false, and has no basis in actual experience or reality....they have no argument for taking guns away from law abiding gun owners...

 

[2aguy]

Two more shootings this week.....a 12 year old and a 15 year old, both boys, in London, in a country, an island, that banned and confiscated guns.....


They were shot, but not killed, so anti gunners will come here and say...but....but.... the murder rate in Britain is lower than the U.S....... in an attempt to hide the fact that gun crime in Britain is going up..... 20 years after they banned and confiscated guns........and it has been going up ever since the ban...and it is accelerating...



Two children aged 12 and 15 shot in Harrow, northwest London

Two boys have been shot minutes apart from each other in Harrow, northwest London.

Police were called just minutes apart, at 1.17pm, to the shootings at two locations in close proximity in High Street, Wealdstone.

A 15-year-old boy was found with a gun shot wound.

Two minutes later at a different but nearby location in High Street, a 12-year-old boy was also treated for gunshot wounds.

Both boys were taken to hospital and police said they await details of their condition.

Hey....anti gunners......which British gun control law has stopped this shooter from walking into a school and murdering children?

That's 2.

You do realize there are something like 300 shootings a day here right?

But according to YOUR logic, "if only guns were banned none of this terrible gun violence would be happening". Turns out you are wrong. So why should we listen to you again?

No. Only gun nuts expect reasonable gun regulation to solve all gun problems. Sane people know it will just reduce the probem to a less horrible number. Why do you keep repeating such goofy crap? The NRA can't supply you with less ignorant talking points?

And only unreasonable people think that attacking tens of millions of people for the criminal misdeeds of less than 200,000 is somehow OK. Ignoring the fact that those same 200,000 are continuously let out of prison by those who DEMAND GUN CONTROL!

Do you see the problem with your so called "logic"?

You seem to think reasonable gun control is a personal attack on you. How childish of you.

You never have "reasonable" gun control...nothing you ever offer is reasonable or controls guns for criminals or mass shooters. All your laws will do is make it more difficult for law abiding people to own and carry guns, and it will put them in legal peril if they try to own and carry guns....while criminals and mass shooters ignore those laws....

While the actual effective way to deal with criminals... long prison sentences.... is ignored by you. And the actual way to deal with mass public shooters, getting rid of democrat created gun free zones, is ignored by you.

 

[2aguy]

Two more shootings this week.....a 12 year old and a 15 year old, both boys, in London, in a country, an island, that banned and confiscated guns.....


They were shot, but not killed, so anti gunners will come here and say...but....but.... the murder rate in Britain is lower than the U.S....... in an attempt to hide the fact that gun crime in Britain is going up..... 20 years after they banned and confiscated guns........and it has been going up ever since the ban...and it is accelerating...



Two children aged 12 and 15 shot in Harrow, northwest London

Two boys have been shot minutes apart from each other in Harrow, northwest London.

Police were called just minutes apart, at 1.17pm, to the shootings at two locations in close proximity in High Street, Wealdstone.

A 15-year-old boy was found with a gun shot wound.



Two minutes later at a different but nearby location in High Street, a 12-year-old boy was also treated for gunshot wounds.

Both boys were taken to hospital and police said they await details of their condition.

Hey....anti gunners......which British gun control law has stopped this shooter from walking into a school and murdering children?

So, what are you getting at? Just how insidious guns are? Or how ineffective and incompetent British law enforcement is?

I will leave it to a certified genius to explain it to you...


"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
- Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

I am no genious. But, here's a "What if" scenario: Totally banning guns across the board? You can't ban anyone being abusive, but you can limit them to what tools they use.

Do you understand that that is the point of this thread? They banned and confiscated guns in Britain....an island.... and their gun crime rates and their violent crime rates are through the roof.......

Dittos in Australia......

Meanwhile, in the United States...we did the opposite.....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...



--------
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

 

[2aguy]

Two more shootings this week.....a 12 year old and a 15 year old, both boys, in London, in a country, an island, that banned and confiscated guns.....


They were shot, but not killed, so anti gunners will come here and say...but....but.... the murder rate in Britain is lower than the U.S....... in an attempt to hide the fact that gun crime in Britain is going up..... 20 years after they banned and confiscated guns........and it has been going up ever since the ban...and it is accelerating...



Two children aged 12 and 15 shot in Harrow, northwest London

Two boys have been shot minutes apart from each other in Harrow, northwest London.

Police were called just minutes apart, at 1.17pm, to the shootings at two locations in close proximity in High Street, Wealdstone.

A 15-year-old boy was found with a gun shot wound.

Two minutes later at a different but nearby location in High Street, a 12-year-old boy was also treated for gunshot wounds.

Both boys were taken to hospital and police said they await details of their condition.

Hey....anti gunners......which British gun control law has stopped this shooter from walking into a school and murdering children?

Math is hard for you, isn't it?

The truth doesn't exist for you.....

 

[2aguy]

Let me RE-POST this.....

You're meme, as is typical of memes - is faulty. Cities can't legislate stricter gun control laws then the state has - in fact Florida is in a court battle with several cities over this. Did you know Louisiana and Missouri have some of the laxest gun control laws? That means St. Louis and New Orleans do not have strict gun control laws. In fact those two states are among the ten least restrictive gun law states. Oops.

The major cities St. Louis, New Orleans, Baton Rouge...are all controlled by democrats......and they have revolving door policies for violent gun offenders...which is what drives their gun crime rates. Law abiding gun owners are not shooting people in those cities......

And if criminals in Britain can get guns easily, criminals in America will be able to get guns easily no matter what you do...as Mexican drug cartels now have illegal gun factories built along the U.S. border.....

 

[2aguy]

If only gun nuts put as much effort into bettering themselves and their families as they did into caring and protecting their precious guns.

I swear, if a gun nut had to choose between his guns and his children...he would actually hesitate before answering.

What exactly do you mean by the term, "gun nut?"

What is a "gun nut?"

A gun nut is NOT someone who merely owns guns. There are lots of gun enthusaists who are not gun nuts. I own and use guns myself. Some of the identifying charactoristics of a gun nut include, but aren't limited to
1. A person who feels he should be armed any time he is in public. Some do it because they are cowards and fear interaction with the real world, or they use it as compensation for lack of masculine charactoristics they wish they had, or to try to make others believe they are as masculine as they want the world to believe they are. Some just do it as a fashion statement. Nobody has a need to be armed 24/7 nless they are a member of the military, and deployed in a combat area.
2. Someone who cares more about enjoying their gun fettish than they do about the safety of others around them. (see #1)
3. Someone who uses guns to make a political statement. "I'm a right winger. Right wingers are gun nuts, so I'll adopt the accepted gun nut strategy to show unity with my political party."
4. Some just want to feel like they are part of a movement. Doesn't really matter what that movement might be, but it helps them to not feel so alone.

Lots of other behaviors could classify someone as a gun nut, but those seem to be the top identifying charactoristics I notice when dealing with gun nuts.

Just curious Bulldog, in your defining of a "gun nut":

1). "A person who feels he should be armed any time he is in public. Some do it because they are cowards and fear interaction with the real world, or they use it as compensation for lack of masculine charactoristics they wish they had, or to try to make others believe they are as masculine as they want the world to believe they are. Some just do it as a fashion statement. Nobody has a need to be armed 24/7 nless they are a member of the military, and deployed in a combat area."

Have you or someone else done a psychological study to back any of that up? And how is it a fashion statement when concealed carry cannot be seen by others? And considering that military do not carry on bases, then by your reasoning, NO ONE needs carry on the street? That is, except the criminal element. Or is this just more male bashing / inferiority complex / resentment by you (I notice you don't assume any WOMEN might wish to carry full time on the street)?

2). Someone who cares more about enjoying their gun fettish than they do about the safety of others around them.

So by inference then, you are saying that people who carry concealed for personal protection actually pose a threat or risk to others on the street? Do you have documentation to show cases where people were carrying and were involved in a crime scene and DID NOT come to the aid of others but chose to only think of themselves?

3. Someone who uses guns to make a political statement.

How do you make a "political statement" with concealed carry when by its very nature, it does not show to others? What do you do, yell out to crowds: "Hey! I'm carrying a gun just to make a political statement?"

If these are how you define being a "gun nut," it suggests to me you don't know the first thing about the subject.

bulldog has nothing.....nothing he suggests is intelligent, and all of his arguments are based on irrational beliefs about guns, gun owners and criminals that the democrats keep letting out of jail.....so he has to try to divert attention to law abiding gun owners...since he has nothing else.

 

[Camp]

Thanks for this thread. It’s important that we know about every gun death that happens in Britain. Very important.

Yes...it is, when people like you want to do what they did in Britain, banning and confiscating guns.......and after doing it, seeing what happens to gun crime rates....they go up, not down.

All guns banned? Why do you spread lies and misinform?

 

[toobfreak]

If only gun nuts put as much effort into bettering themselves and their families as they did into caring and protecting their precious guns.

I swear, if a gun nut had to choose between his guns and his children...he would actually hesitate before answering.

What exactly do you mean by the term, "gun nut?"

What is a "gun nut?"

That is for you to figure out. But Bulldog's answer is a good start.

So's a flying leap off a cliff if all you want is to get to the bottom of the chasm fast as possible.

 

[Crepitus]

That's 2.

You do realize there are something like 300 shootings a day here right?

But according to YOUR logic, "if only guns were banned none of this terrible gun violence would be happening". Turns out you are wrong. So why should we listen to you again?

No. Only gun nuts expect reasonable gun regulation to solve all gun problems. Sane people know it will just reduce the probem to a less horrible number. Why do you keep repeating such goofy crap? The NRA can't supply you with less ignorant talking points?

And only unreasonable people think that attacking tens of millions of people for the criminal misdeeds of less than 200,000 is somehow OK. Ignoring the fact that those same 200,000 are continuously let out of prison by those who DEMAND GUN CONTROL!

Do you see the problem with your so called "logic"?

Nope. I see you and your buddies endangering the rest of us so you can feel tough.

Law abiding gun owners aren't shooting anyone.....the criminals that democrats let out of jail over and over again, the ones with multiple felony convictions and gun convictions are the ones shooting people in democrat controlled voting districts...the problem is, again, the democrat party and their cozy relationship with violent criminals.

Riiiight
Now you've moved beyond straw men and into lies.