10/2020: Solar is now ‘Cheapest Electricity in History’, confirms IEA

[Flash]

TBWO , to be worked out ; something you view as a problem , others view as a challenge. Perhaps , that. Is one of the challenges which require international support. Optimism is better than pessimism anyway. I don't worry about the details.

The problem with solar outside of it not being available for about 2/3rds of the time is that it is low energy when it hits the ground. You can't make something outta nutin.

 

[Stann]

The problem with solar outside of it not being available for about 2/3rds of the time is that it is low energy when it hits the ground. You can't make something outta nutin.

The Sun is responsible for ALL life on this planet. ENERGY = LIFE. It ain't nothing !

 

[Flash]

The Sun is responsible for ALL life on this planet. ENERGY = LIFE. It ain't nothing !

Of course it is. Nobody is disputing that fact. Nuclear was created when the sun was born and fossil is nothing more than stored up energy from past eons.

However, that doesn't change the fact that the amount of energy that can be collected by solar panels and turned into usable energy is very dilute at the earth's surface. If I can remember the figures correctly it is like 1000 W per square meter at the Equator in direct sunlight. Of that only about 1/3rd can be converted into direct electrical power under the best circumstances. Not everybody lives at the Equator so the average for all of earth when the sun is out is about 100 W per sq meter.

That is not going to provide the power for 10 billion people without blanketing all available land with solar arrays.

The facts just don't support the fantasy.

 

[jc456]

TBWO , to be worked out ; something you view as a problem , others view as a challenge. Perhaps , that. Is one of the challenges which require international support. Optimism is better than pessimism anyway. I don't worry about the details.

No, no, you said you had solutions, what is it

 

[jc456]

The Sun is responsible for ALL life on this planet. ENERGY = LIFE. It ain't nothing !

Climate too, and it’s only visible 1/3 of a day

 

[abu afak]

As a fuel source for generating electricity a hundred years or so. And it is orders of magnitude more efficient than wind or solar.

elektra Flash westwall

"..And lawmakers complicated the economics for Renewable energy producers, which have immensely increased in number over the past decade in Texas, offering Cheaper Electricity Than Gas- or Coal-Powered Plants Can Produce. One new policy will make connecting rural renewable projects to the grid more costly.....

Fossil fuels got a boost from lawmakers aiming to fix Texas’ grid, while renewable energy escaped stricter regulations​

The bills will give owners of natural gas power plants incentives to build more capacity, but they don’t go as far as originally proposed to change how electricity is created and sold in the Texas market.

www.texastribune.org

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[Orangecat]

Where you see problems , I see solutions . With such a huge shift government does need to get involved , possibly it will be the driving force that ends our nation-state system. Clearly International cooperation has to be involved. What better to drive mankind forward than Universal policies on Energy.

International cooperation? I’m an optimist, but not to that degree. I don’t see any meaningful international cooperation between the socialist/communists and the liberty leaning capitalists.

 

[elektra]

elektra Flash westwall

"..And lawmakers complicated the economics for Renewable energy producers, which have immensely increased in number over the past decade in Texas, offering Cheaper Electricity Than Gas- or Coal-Powered Plants Can Produce. One new policy will make connecting rural renewable projects to the grid more costly.....

HOW MUCH HAVE WE SPENT AND HOW MUCH MORE WILL WE SPEND?

 

[Stann]

Of course it is. Nobody is disputing that fact. Nuclear was created when the sun was born and fossil is nothing more than stored up energy from past eons.

However, that doesn't change the fact that the amount of energy that can be collected by solar panels and turned into usable energy is very dilute at the earth's surface.

That is not going to provide the power for 10 billion people without blanketing all available land with solar arrays.

Things are going to get much worse before we reach that 10 billion mark. I'll take all the help I can get. Also , if you review the history and efficiency of the use of coal you'd know that the first use of it was very ineffective. Improvements throughout time have improved the efficiency of its use. Solar is relative a newborn in respect to that and the new panels are already 22 % more efficient. Imagine where we'll be at in 50 years. Plus if they crack the ability to beam it in , it will be caught in the outer atmosphere. The possibilities are endless and that's a FACT !

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Things are going to get much worse before we reach that 10 billion mark. I'll take all the help I can get. Also , if you review the history and efficiency of the use of coal you'd know that the first use of it was very ineffective. Improvements throughout time have improved the efficiency of its use. Solar is relative a newborn in respect to that and the new panels are already 22 % more efficient. Imagine where we'll be at in 50 years. Plus if they crack the ability to beam it in , it will be caught in the outer atmosphere. The possibilities are endless and that's a FACT !

I'll take all the help I can get.

How much nuclear help should we get?

 

[elektra]

Things are going to get much worse before we reach that 10 billion mark. I'll take all the help I can get. Also , if you review the history and efficiency of the use of coal you'd know that the first use of it was very ineffective. Improvements throughout time have improved the efficiency of its use. Solar is relative a newborn in respect to that and the new panels are already 22 % more efficient. Imagine where we'll be at in 50 years. Plus if they crack the ability to beam it in , it will be caught in the outer atmosphere. The possibilities are endless and that's a FACT !

Solar is old, older than computers. 1883? First solar cell? Selenium.

Wind is old

Efficiency in both is about as good as it gets.

Yes, review history, the first use of coal satisfied the needs of the times.

Solar and wind are parasites, dirty weak power

 

[Stann]

Solar and wind are parasites, dirty weak power

I believe you're very confused , coal is dirty. My dad was a coal miner in Northeastern Pa. ( Anthracite coal / clean coal ) and every day when he came home from work he'd look like a black man. Couldn't even come in the house. Went into the basement , striped down and showered before stepping foot into the upstairs. Coal is as dirty as it gets. He died in a mining accident. The doctors tried to console my mother by saying if he had lived it would have been really bad because he already had black lung bad ( Anthracilicosus ).

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I believe you're very confused , coal is dirty. My dad was a coal miner in Northeastern Pa. ( Anthracite coal / clean coal ) and every day when he came home from work he'd look like a black man. Couldn't even come in the house. Went into the basement , striped down and showered before stepping foot into the upstairs. Coal is as dirty as it gets. He died in a mining accident. The doctors tried to console my mother by saying if he had lived it would have been really bad because he already had black lung bad ( Anthracilicosus ).

It's amazing the lengths we'll go to provide the reliable power we need.

 

[westwall]

I believe you're very confused , coal is dirty. My dad was a coal miner in Northeastern Pa. ( Anthracite coal / clean coal ) and every day when he came home from work he'd look like a black man. Couldn't even come in the house. Went into the basement , striped down and showered before stepping foot into the upstairs. Coal is as dirty as it gets. He died in a mining accident. The doctors tried to console my mother by saying if he had lived it would have been really bad because he already had black lung bad ( Anthracilicosus ).

Yes, and just think. To manufacture the solar modules, and the windmills, and the concrete for those windmills, you are using ENORMOUS amounts of fossil fuels in their manufacture. And, thanks to the progressive left pushing so called "green" manufacturing over seas, guess which fossil fuel is being used the most to manufacture them?

Yup, you guessed it. COAL!

Nothing in life is free. And the sad reality is most solar modules, and windmills will not produce the amount of electricity that was used to create them.

 

[ReinyDays]

Of course it is. Nobody is disputing that fact. Nuclear was created when the sun was born and fossil is nothing more than stored up energy from past eons.

However, that doesn't change the fact that the amount of energy that can be collected by solar panels and turned into usable energy is very dilute at the earth's surface. If I can remember the figures correctly it is like 1000 W per square meter at the Equator in direct sunlight. Of that only about 1/3rd can be converted into direct electrical power under the best circumstances. Not everybody lives at the Equator so the average for all of earth when the sun is out is about 100 W per sq meter.

That is not going to provide the power for 10 billion people without blanketing all available land with solar arrays.

The facts just don't support the fantasy.

If solar power is 1,000 W at the equator ... then everyplace else would be 1,000 W times the cosine of latitude ... that cosine at 45º is 0.707 ... or 707 W halfway between equator and pole ... your math is wrong ...

If rooftop solar serves 1/3 of Los Angeles' power needs ... then it's worth installing rooftop solar there ... but if you live on top of a coal seam ... then it's worth burning coal ... is Chicago windy? ... maybe they should use wind turbines in all those corn fields ...

If a golf cart doesn't fit your lifestyle ... then don't buy an EV ... only YOU can answer these questions, and only for yourself ... don't tell me "renewables don't work" in the Pacific Northwest (where it rains every day all day long) ... because it rains every day all day long, we have plenty of hydro ...

 

[elektra]

I believe you're very confused , coal is dirty. My dad was a coal miner in Northeastern Pa. ( Anthracite coal / clean coal ) and every day when he came home from work he'd look like a black man. Couldn't even come in the house. Went into the basement , striped down and showered before stepping foot into the upstairs. Coal is as dirty as it gets. He died in a mining accident. The doctors tried to console my mother by saying if he had lived it would have been really bad because he already had black lung bad ( Anthracilicosus ).

Yes, coal is dirty and coal is used to melt silica to polysilicon. Silica to solar grade is another step. Blast furnaces. And what chemical are required, that only come from Oil?

Then we need more coal and oil, to make steel and fiberglass for wind turbinewood. s.

You can not have wind or solar when there is no more oil. Carbon, I guess the carbon you need you can get from cutting down more trees.

Such a short lived, piss poor solution, use our natural resources as fast as possible building wind towers and solar panels that dont give us the electricity we need.

Death, both my parents died of cancer before they were 59 years old.

 

[Stann]

My father

Death, both my parents died of cancer before they were 59 years old.

My mother was poorly educated , when she was 12 years old her parents pulled her out of school and she became more or less an indentured servant { slave ) in a Jewish home. Any money made by her was given to her parents. Married off at 16. With her first birth she did not know how she became pregnant. My father's death threw her into menopause. She nearly went crazy because she thought she was pregnant again. A young widow with 7 children at home. She suffered for months until she went to the doctor and he explained menopause to her.

 

[westwall]

If solar power is 1,000 W at the equator ... then everyplace else would be 1,000 W times the cosine of latitude ... that cosine at 45º is 0.707 ... or 707 W halfway between equator and pole ... your math is wrong ...

If rooftop solar serves 1/3 of Los Angeles' power needs ... then it's worth installing rooftop solar there ... but if you live on top of a coal seam ... then it's worth burning coal ... is Chicago windy? ... maybe they should use wind turbines in all those corn fields ...

If a golf cart doesn't fit your lifestyle ... then don't buy an EV ... only YOU can answer these questions, and only for yourself ... don't tell me "renewables don't work" in the Pacific Northwest (where it rains every day all day long) ... because it rains every day all day long, we have plenty of hydro...

Of course hydroelectric is renewable. There are sadly, also few places where it can be used. But where possible it is absolutely the best source of power.

The same can not be said about either wind or solar. At best they are only truly useful for a off grid situation.

I just replaced my original solar system after 30 years. I installed three times my needs, to make up for the inefficiency.

I also installed a 65kwh battery backup. Good for about a week at low usage. But in all cases, the grid is far cheaper, and there is no need to worry about limiting my usage.

 

[Stann]

Of course hydroelectric is renewable. There are sadly, also few places where it can be used. But where possible it is absolutely the best source of power.

The same can not be said about either wind or solar. At best they are only truly useful for a off grid situation.

I just replaced my original solar system after 30 years. I installed three times my needs, to make up for the inefficiency.

I also installed a 65kwh battery backup. Good for about a week at low usage. But in all cases, the grid is far cheaper, and there is no need to worry about limiting my usage.

For now. All this is in preparation for the future.

 

[Stann]

And the sad reality is most solar modules, and windmills will not produce the amount of electricity that was used to create them.

Went to fact check . You are wrong , in most cases they pay for their carbon imprint in 6 months. And given they last for 20 - 30 years. That's all gravy , making them the best choice around.