YOur kind of Christian; Family Research Council

[AllieBaba]

Well if you believe everything he says, then you believe that homosexuals are the cause of all the child abuse in Uganda.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Jeff Sharlet has written extensively about The Family, aka The Fellowship, a secret Washington DC Christian organization.

 

[Mini 14]

I wonder why all these Christian organizations don't support homosexuality?

 

[Sky Dancer]

The Family is, in its own words, an “invisible” association, though its membership has always consisted mostly of public men. Senators Don Nickles (R., Okla.), Charles Grassley (R., Iowa), Pete Domenici (R., N.Mex.), John Ensign (R., Nev.), James Inhofe (R., Okla.), Bill Nelson (D., Fla.), and Conrad Burns (R., Mont.) are referred to as “members,” as are Representatives Jim DeMint (R., S.C.), Frank Wolf (R., Va.), Joseph Pitts (R., Pa.), Zach Wamp (R., Tenn.), and Bart Stupak (D., Mich.). Regular prayer groups have met in the Pentagon and at the Department of Defense, and the Family has traditionally fostered strong ties with businessmen in the oil and aerospace industries. The Family maintains a closely guarded database of its associates, but it issues no cards, collects no official dues. Members are asked not to speak about the group or its activities.

During the 1960s the Family forged relationships between the U.S. government and some of the most anti-Communist (and dictatorial) elements within Africa's postcolonial leadership. The Brazilian dictator General Costa e Silva, with Family support, was overseeing regular fellowship groups for Latin American leaders, while, in Indonesia, General Suharto (whose tally of several hundred thousand “Communists” killed marks him as one of the century's most murderous dictators) was presiding over a group of fifty Indonesian legislators. During the Reagan Administration the Family helped build friendships between the U.S. government and men such as Salvadoran general Carlos Eugenios Vides Casanova, convicted by a Florida jury of the torture of thousands, and Honduran general Gustavo Alvarez Martinez, himself an evangelical minister, who was linked to both the CIA and death squads before his own demise. “We work with power where we can,” the Family's leader, Doug Coe, says, “build new power where we can't.”

Jesus plus nothing: Undercover among America's secret theocrats?By Jeff Sharlet (Harper's Magazine)

 

[Sky Dancer]

In his latest book, "C Street," Sharlet extends his investigation of the Fellowship to a string of Republican sex scandals, anti-gay legislation in Uganda and a purported evangelical takeover of the U.S. military.

Much of his firsthand reporting is brilliant, even courageous. Sharlet traveled to Uganda and met with political and religious leaders who want to execute gay people.

Sharlet documents the connections that Fellowship members have formed with dictators and thugs around the world, focusing in particular on the ministry's activities in Uganda. In 2009, Uganda's parliament began considering a bill that would condemn to death persons who committed "aggravated homosexuality," such as multiple acts of homosexual sex. Sharlet assigns substantial blame for this barbaric idea to American evangelicals and, in particular, to the Fellowship. "The Family didn't pull the trigger," he writes, "[but] they provided the gun." "C Street," Jeff Sharlet's examination of the evangelical group, the Fellowship

 

[Sky Dancer]

Jeff Sharlet is the best journalist currently covering American religion.

Drawing upon information gleaned from research in the Fellowship archives at the Wheaton College Library, Sharlet tells the Fellowship’s story from its beginnings as a group of business and political leaders banded together to fight the growing influence of unionized longshoremen in depression-era Seattle, through World War II and its aftermath, into the Cold War, when Fellowship operatives began to engage in what the earlier President Bush described as “quiet diplomacy” in the fight against communism. The story continues to the present day and to the Fellowship’s advocacy for the latter Bush’s policy of privatizing governmental assistance to the poor through the office of “Faith Based Initiatives.”

For me, the most disturbing of Sharlet’s revelations was the cataloging of rogues for whom, in Jesus name, members of the Fellowship have provided political favors in the form of access to American political and business leaders. The short list of those befriended by the Family includes Indonesia’s General Suharto, who is said to have killed more than a million people in Indonesia and East Timor, Francois “Papa Doc” Duvalier whose Touton Macoutes subverted traditional voodooism to terrorize Haiti’s population, killing more than 60,000 people in the process, and Eugenio Rios Mont from Guatemala, an Evangelical who killed more than ten thousand indigenous Guatemalans in the name of fighting communism. A longer list includes diabolical strongmen from Latin America, Southeast Asia, and Africa, as well as a host of lesser-known Nazis who benefited from the Family’s intercession in the wake of World War II.
Book Review: “The Family” by Jeff Sharlet « bendaniel.org

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The Family Research Council has repeatedly argued that gay men are more likely than others to molest children. Bryan Fischer of the American Family Association has said that Hitler was gay and that homosexuality caused the Holocaust. To call such claims misinformed is being generous—they have been repeatedly and roundly debunked. Disseminating these claims doesn't promote discussion; it promotes prejudice and hatred.

Neither the Family Research Council nor the American Family Association condones criminal behavior. But by spreading falsehoods and propaganda, such groups lend ideas and credibility to more extremist elements.

The SPLC has been clear and consistent as to what it means by hate group. Applying the term to high-profile anti-gay organizations isn't just politics. It's asserting that facts matter, that words have consequences and that hate is hate—regardless of how many people support it.
Spreading lies | The Christian Century

Ever wonder why it took so long for homosexual activists to start banning NAMBLA from their meetings?

 

[Gadawg73]

The Family Research Council has repeatedly argued that gay men are more likely than others to molest children. Bryan Fischer of the American Family Association has said that Hitler was gay and that homosexuality caused the Holocaust. To call such claims misinformed is being generous—they have been repeatedly and roundly debunked. Disseminating these claims doesn't promote discussion; it promotes prejudice and hatred.

Neither the Family Research Council nor the American Family Association condones criminal behavior. But by spreading falsehoods and propaganda, such groups lend ideas and credibility to more extremist elements.

The SPLC has been clear and consistent as to what it means by hate group. Applying the term to high-profile anti-gay organizations isn't just politics. It's asserting that facts matter, that words have consequences and that hate is hate—regardless of how many people support it.
Spreading lies | The Christian Century

Ever wonder why it took so long for homosexual activists to start banning NAMBLA from their meetings?

ALL homosexual activists? What meetings?
How long did it take for us to ban KKK from "meetings"?

 

[Gadawg73]

"I don't hate you but I want to deny you equal protection under the law".
WTF?
Yeah, right! That makes a lot of sense! LOL.
I would rather they just hated me.
No wonder homosexuals are pissed.

 

[Newby]

Christian Scott Lively is on a worldwide anti-gay campaign.

Scott Lively is known in the United States for being outspoken against homosexuality and “the LGBT lobby,” as well as occasional Holocaust revisionism. While his message has had increasingly less traction at home in the United States, Lively has emerged as a tireless international campaigner against the “threat” of homosexuality faced by other nations, from Russia to Uganda—and now to Moldova.

You can see firsthand the sort of rhetoric Mr. Lively employs (and the kind of reception he receives) at his sermons abroad in this YouTube clip from Novosibirsk, Russia. Such messages have been particularly welcome by certain religious and other leaders in Uganda, where the Anti-Homosexuality Bill was introduced in 2009 after a similar visit by Lively. Following an international outcry, the Bill’s principle sponsor, MP David Bahati, temporarily tabled the bill—which proposes life imprisonment for the offense of “homosexuality”—although has said that he plans to reintroduce it. President Museveni promised to veto this legislation should it make it through the Uganda’s Parliament, although the very discussion of the bill and its contents has contributed to a hateful climate for Uganda’s lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and intersex (LGBTI) individuals.

“Homosexuality” is precisely what Scott Lively went to combat in Moldova. As reported by Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, Lively reacted to the new antidiscrimination bill that contained a sexual orientation clause by arguing that “ending discrimination against gays would be the first step towards the ‘homosexualization’ of society and would be followed by granting gay people the right to marry and adopt children.” The proposed bill, which would bring Moldova a step closer to improved relations with the European Union, was also condemned by the Moldovan Orthodox Church and is vehemently opposed by Lively’s main allies in the country—
Two Influential Americans Make Separate Visits to Europe

So what? Are we supposed to 'hate' him? Do you 'hate' him and others like him? How are you any different than they are?

So what? Fine. He's evil, if you like his work, support him. Just don't try and bullshit me about how moderate you are.

I don't have to 'bullshit' you about anything. You're the one that has to bullshit and put words in people's mouths that they didn't say in order to justify your hatred and bias. I asked you a question. Do you hate him? How are you any better than he is? Why do you only give a damn about anything that has to do with gay people? Is that all you care about? Where is your caring and compassion for those that are different from you? You expect others to care about people and ideas that are different than theirs, yet you're not willing to step up to the plate and do the same. That's called hypocrisy Sky, and you are full of it.

 

[Newby]

It hasn't been passed yet.

No? But it's been two years? And you don't think people who knowingly spread AIDS to others should be prosecuted? Should they face the death penalty for basically giving the death penalty to someone they had sex with?

No. I don't support the death penalty. Do you?

Oh, okay, I'll play your game then. I guess you think it's perfectly fine for people with Aids to go around having sex without disclosing their condition and basically giving their sex partners a death penalty. Nice to know that you're okay with that, and that there should be no punishment for their crime, how pathetic. And yes, I absolutely support the death penalty in specific cases.

 

[Newby]

"Mr. Sharlet claims I told him that I had paid a visit to Mr. Bahati in Kampala to assure him that he remains in good standing despite my personal opposition to the bill. The meeting was not to tell Mr. Bahati that he was in “good standing,” whatever that means, it was to discuss my concerns with the bill. Indeed, on NPR’s Fresh Air episode of August 25, 2010, Mr. Sharlet says that, after he met with me, Mr. Bahati “was upset because he had come into a sort of a schism with the group.” Mr. Sharlet’s reporting on this subject is inconsistent, to put the best light on it.
Mr. Sharlet gives me credit for being vocal about my opposition to the bill, but claims that there’s somehow a “profound lack of accountability at every other level.” Mr. Sharlet knows that every American with any connection to Uganda for the Fellowship has condemned the bill. When Mr. Bahati first discussed the possibility of this bill, a close associate of the Fellowship told him it was a bad idea, making us the first group in the world to condemn the legislation since, under Mr. Sharlet’s approach of guilt by association, we must also have blessing by association."

Bob Hunter and Jeff Sharlet: An Exchange (Harper's Magazine)

Sky's full of shit.

I pulled up a load of information on this a while back but I don't remember what thread it was in. I think it was some garbage rtard was spewing at the time. It included a history of the situation in Uganda and Bahati specifically.

I've shown this information to her many months ago, several times now. She continues to try to imply that it's a 'kill gays' bill whenever it's not, and that American churches are supporting the 'killing of gays' in Uganda when that's not anywhere near the truth. But, that's the only way she can hold onto her hatred, I think she believes her own lies. It's sad.

 

[Mini 14]

If Sky is a buddhist, so are the muslims.

I have a feeling Buddha's position on her would be "would you please shut the fuck up?"

 

[Sky Dancer]

No? But it's been two years? And you don't think people who knowingly spread AIDS to others should be prosecuted? Should they face the death penalty for basically giving the death penalty to someone they had sex with?

No. I don't support the death penalty. Do you?

Oh, okay, I'll play your game then. I guess you think it's perfectly fine for people with Aids to go around having sex without disclosing their condition and basically giving their sex partners a death penalty. Nice to know that you're okay with that, and that there should be no punishment for their crime, how pathetic. And yes, I absolutely support the death penalty in specific cases.

Yes. I see your game. I don't support the death penalty so you assume I think there should be no consequences for disclosing AIDS to your sex partners. I never said it was 'perfectly fine' for people with AIDS to infect their partners without them knowing. It is a crime. There should be consequences, just not the death penalty.

Nice to know how you operate, pathetic.

 

[Sky Dancer]

If Sky is a buddhist, so are the muslims.

I have a feeling Buddha's position on her would be "would you please shut the fuck up?"

I have a feeling YOUR position on me speaking is 'shut the fuck up'.

Buddha means 'awake'. Awake means we know what's going on inside and the true nature of all that passes through. Ineffable, impermanent.

Buddha is not a god who speaks.

 

[Sky Dancer]

"Mr. Sharlet claims I told him that I had paid a visit to Mr. Bahati in Kampala to assure him that he remains in good standing despite my personal opposition to the bill. The meeting was not to tell Mr. Bahati that he was in “good standing,” whatever that means, it was to discuss my concerns with the bill. Indeed, on NPR’s Fresh Air episode of August 25, 2010, Mr. Sharlet says that, after he met with me, Mr. Bahati “was upset because he had come into a sort of a schism with the group.” Mr. Sharlet’s reporting on this subject is inconsistent, to put the best light on it.
Mr. Sharlet gives me credit for being vocal about my opposition to the bill, but claims that there’s somehow a “profound lack of accountability at every other level.” Mr. Sharlet knows that every American with any connection to Uganda for the Fellowship has condemned the bill. When Mr. Bahati first discussed the possibility of this bill, a close associate of the Fellowship told him it was a bad idea, making us the first group in the world to condemn the legislation since, under Mr. Sharlet’s approach of guilt by association, we must also have blessing by association."

Bob Hunter and Jeff Sharlet: An Exchange (Harper's Magazine)

Sky's full of shit.

I pulled up a load of information on this a while back but I don't remember what thread it was in. I think it was some garbage rtard was spewing at the time. It included a history of the situation in Uganda and Bahati specifically.

I've shown this information to her many months ago, several times now. She continues to try to imply that it's a 'kill gays' bill whenever it's not, and that American churches are supporting the 'killing of gays' in Uganda when that's not anywhere near the truth. But, that's the only way she can hold onto her hatred, I think she believes her own lies. It's sad.

It was a kill gays bill. It's been changed to be a life imprisonment for gays bill. The Church supported Ssempa when it was a kill gays bill. They changed their tune when it became public knowledge that they supported Ssempa.

I absolutely oppose this group, Family Research Council. I am very surprised you all defend them. Scott Lively absolutely bragged about his work in Uganda as 'dropping sa nuclear bomb on gay people'. Lively is evil and I oppose evil.

I do not hate Lively or anyone else. I pray he wakes up before he dies.

 

[Sky Dancer]

"I don't hate you but I want to deny you equal protection under the law".
WTF?
Yeah, right! That makes a lot of sense! LOL.
I would rather they just hated me.
No wonder homosexuals are pissed.

I'm hurt and I'm angry. I don't hate those who hate me. I pray they are quickly freed from the suffering that causes them to hate gay people.

Thank you so much for understanding. You stand out as a Christian willing to speak out against extremism.

Note that many of the posters here support these hateful groups and defend them with all their might. It saddens me.

 

[Newby]

No. I don't support the death penalty. Do you?

Oh, okay, I'll play your game then. I guess you think it's perfectly fine for people with Aids to go around having sex without disclosing their condition and basically giving their sex partners a death penalty. Nice to know that you're okay with that, and that there should be no punishment for their crime, how pathetic. And yes, I absolutely support the death penalty in specific cases.

Yes. I see your game. I don't support the death penalty so you assume I think there should be no consequences for disclosing AIDS to your sex partners. I never said it was 'perfectly fine' for people with AIDS to infect their partners without them knowing. It is a crime. There should be consequences, just not the death penalty.

Nice to know how you operate, pathetic.

No, Sky, I was just playing your game when you constantly put words into other people's mouths. It displayed how YOU operate. Not very nice, is it?

 

[Newby]

"Mr. Sharlet claims I told him that I had paid a visit to Mr. Bahati in Kampala to assure him that he remains in good standing despite my personal opposition to the bill. The meeting was not to tell Mr. Bahati that he was in “good standing,” whatever that means, it was to discuss my concerns with the bill. Indeed, on NPR’s Fresh Air episode of August 25, 2010, Mr. Sharlet says that, after he met with me, Mr. Bahati “was upset because he had come into a sort of a schism with the group.” Mr. Sharlet’s reporting on this subject is inconsistent, to put the best light on it.
Mr. Sharlet gives me credit for being vocal about my opposition to the bill, but claims that there’s somehow a “profound lack of accountability at every other level.” Mr. Sharlet knows that every American with any connection to Uganda for the Fellowship has condemned the bill. When Mr. Bahati first discussed the possibility of this bill, a close associate of the Fellowship told him it was a bad idea, making us the first group in the world to condemn the legislation since, under Mr. Sharlet’s approach of guilt by association, we must also have blessing by association."

Bob Hunter and Jeff Sharlet: An Exchange (Harper's Magazine)

Sky's full of shit.

I pulled up a load of information on this a while back but I don't remember what thread it was in. I think it was some garbage rtard was spewing at the time. It included a history of the situation in Uganda and Bahati specifically.

I've shown this information to her many months ago, several times now. She continues to try to imply that it's a 'kill gays' bill whenever it's not, and that American churches are supporting the 'killing of gays' in Uganda when that's not anywhere near the truth. But, that's the only way she can hold onto her hatred, I think she believes her own lies. It's sad.

It was a kill gays bill. It's been changed to be a life imprisonment for gays bill. The Church supported Ssempa when it was a kill gays bill. They changed their tune when it became public knowledge that they supported Ssempa.

I absolutely oppose this group, Family Research Council. I am very surprised you all defend them. Scott Lively absolutely bragged about his work in Uganda as 'dropping sa nuclear bomb on gay people'. Lively is evil and I oppose evil.

I do not hate Lively or anyone else. I pray he wakes up before he dies.

But you're still calling it a 'kill gays' bill, when it's not. It's never been passed and it never will be, and there aren't any christian US churches that supported it. All lies.

If you have sex while HIV positive without disclosure, or sex with minors, you deserve to be punished under the law. AIDS is a very real and very rampant problem in Africa, and they're dealing harshly with those who are spreading it.

 

[Sky Dancer]

So what? Are we supposed to 'hate' him? Do you 'hate' him and others like him? How are you any different than they are?

So what? Fine. He's evil, if you like his work, support him. Just don't try and bullshit me about how moderate you are.

I don't have to 'bullshit' you about anything. You're the one that has to bullshit and put words in people's mouths that they didn't say in order to justify your hatred and bias. I asked you a question. Do you hate him? How are you any better than he is? Why do you only give a damn about anything that has to do with gay people? Is that all you care about? Where is your caring and compassion for those that are different from you? You expect others to care about people and ideas that are different than theirs, yet you're not willing to step up to the plate and do the same. That's called hypocrisy Sky, and you are full of it.

Hypocrisy would be if I didn't speak up. Of course, I am concerned about gay civil rights. I'm a lesbian. I'm the daughter of a gay man. I had to wait 25 years before I could marry my life partner only to have the RCC and LDS reverse the decision three months later.

No, I don't hate Scott Lively. I do think he's evil and must be stopped. He's on a world wide mission to cause suffering to gay people. Too bad you don't care about gay people as much as you do these hateful 'Christians'.

I care about many things and many kinds of people who are suffering. You don't know me or what I generally spend my time doing. I am a counselor and a teacher, and a volunteer crisis domestic violence advocate serving 24 hours a week on-call. I financially support a family of nine Tibetans exiled in India. I write to prisoners in the US who are studying Buddhism. I support nuns in Tibet. I vote. I write letters. I financially support the Teaching Tolerance project and the work of the Southern Poverty Law Center. I give blood. I'm kind to children and old people and animals. I'm concerned about many international issues and foreign policy. I'm concerned about people who suffer in war and famine and the Japanese now.

Scott Lively is suffering from his hatred. I have to work hard to not return his hate. His actions hurt and anger me. I will speak out against him and I am sorry to see how many of you approve of his actions.

It makes me sick.

You think I'm a lousy Buddhist because I have the capacity to feel hurt and angry? So be it. You have the luxury of not having to give a shit what happens to gay people. I don't.