Yet another school shooting

[beagle9]

Now to say all that is to say all this, where as we should also address what Hollyweird is doing or has done to this country, and go after that bullcrap big time.

 

[elongobardi]

The first action taken by us is to peer into the world of the shooter (in which could go straight to the shooters ability to do damage, by looking into his world while he holds the gun in his hand). We should look maybe to limit his abilities to do major damage in the format that he has chosen to use (i.e the weapon of choice and try to understand his reasoning behind the choice that was made).

Ok we are in his world now, and he is holding his weapon, now what can we do in order to stop his ability to kill so many while we are along for the observational ride ?

The first observation to maybe observe, is what type of weapon he chooses and why, and what would I do to counter what I see in order to slow him down ??? Wouldn't it be wise to have his weapon already limited in respect to his ability to rapidly kill as many as he can in the moment ??? How would we do that ? If made the clip of such a weapon limited to 2 bullets per clip, and created a couple of hoops for him to have to jump through in order to not so quickly change out the clip, then would this help ???? Otherwise it's Pow, pow, and then a button is held while another lever is pulled in order to change out the clip (somewhat complicated).

All things that slow down the death rates in the situation is a good thing right ??

Now go from there, and tell us what you would do once leave the person, and move into his twisted mind ?

After leaving the shooter totally, then let's go into the school yard, and see what needs to be done there, and then let's go into the school next.

After that talk about implementing strategies and full proof ways to stop this stuff by having a complete and comprehensive plan in place after all is said and done, then we should move on to other good ideas while always preserving the rights and freedoms we as good citizens enjoy in this country.

Yes, screening is important prior to the purchasing of a gun, and no one of a shady character prone to doing bad things by proof of should get their hands on a gun ever.

Two bullets to a magazine. Wake up and smell the coffee. The shooter will get bigger magazines somewhere else. I don’t know what type of background checks there doing but in NJ it is extensive as well as our mental illness check. Also in every school shooting kids new, friends new and things were posted. Kids need to open there mouth whether they think it’s a joke or not.


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[beagle9]

The first action taken by us is to peer into the world of the shooter (in which could go straight to the shooters ability to do damage, by looking into his world while he holds the gun in his hand). We should look maybe to limit his abilities to do major damage in the format that he has chosen to use (i.e the weapon of choice and try to understand his reasoning behind the choice that was made).

Ok we are in his world now, and he is holding his weapon, now what can we do in order to stop his ability to kill so many while we are along for the observational ride ?

The first observation to maybe observe, is what type of weapon he chooses and why, and what would I do to counter what I see in order to slow him down ??? Wouldn't it be wise to have his weapon already limited in respect to his ability to rapidly kill as many as he can in the moment ??? How would we do that ? If made the clip of such a weapon limited to 2 bullets per clip, and created a couple of hoops for him to have to jump through in order to not so quickly change out the clip, then would this help ???? Otherwise it's Pow, pow, and then a button is held while another lever is pulled in order to change out the clip (somewhat complicated).

All things that slow down the death rates in the situation is a good thing right ??

Now go from there, and tell us what you would do once leave the person, and move into his twisted mind ?

After leaving the shooter totally, then let's go into the school yard, and see what needs to be done there, and then let's go into the school next.

After that talk about implementing strategies and full proof ways to stop this stuff by having a complete and comprehensive plan in place after all is said and done, then we should move on to other good ideas while always preserving the rights and freedoms we as good citizens enjoy in this country.

Yes, screening is important prior to the purchasing of a gun, and no one of a shady character prone to doing bad things by proof of should get their hands on a gun ever.

Two bullets to a magazine. Wake up and smell the coffee. The shooter will get bigger magazines somewhere else. I don’t know what type of background checks there doing but in NJ it is extensive as well as our mental illness check. Also in every school shooting kids new, friends new and things were posted. Kids need to open there mouth whether they think it’s a joke or not.


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Not if those magazines are made obselete.

Yes the kids need to speak up, but they need the proper support when doing so, and they need to trust the people in charge again. But first we need to put good common sense educated people in charge again, and that ain't by using the system or ways in which has created all that we see now. What a flipping mess we got in this nation now. Good grief.

 

[elongobardi]

The first action taken by us is to peer into the world of the shooter (in which could go straight to the shooters ability to do damage, by looking into his world while he holds the gun in his hand). We should look maybe to limit his abilities to do major damage in the format that he has chosen to use (i.e the weapon of choice and try to understand his reasoning behind the choice that was made).

Ok we are in his world now, and he is holding his weapon, now what can we do in order to stop his ability to kill so many while we are along for the observational ride ?

The first observation to maybe observe, is what type of weapon he chooses and why, and what would I do to counter what I see in order to slow him down ??? Wouldn't it be wise to have his weapon already limited in respect to his ability to rapidly kill as many as he can in the moment ??? How would we do that ? If made the clip of such a weapon limited to 2 bullets per clip, and created a couple of hoops for him to have to jump through in order to not so quickly change out the clip, then would this help ???? Otherwise it's Pow, pow, and then a button is held while another lever is pulled in order to change out the clip (somewhat complicated).

All things that slow down the death rates in the situation is a good thing right ??

Now go from there, and tell us what you would do once leave the person, and move into his twisted mind ?

After leaving the shooter totally, then let's go into the school yard, and see what needs to be done there, and then let's go into the school next.

After that talk about implementing strategies and full proof ways to stop this stuff by having a complete and comprehensive plan in place after all is said and done, then we should move on to other good ideas while always preserving the rights and freedoms we as good citizens enjoy in this country.

Yes, screening is important prior to the purchasing of a gun, and no one of a shady character prone to doing bad things by proof of should get their hands on a gun ever.

Two bullets to a magazine. Wake up and smell the coffee. The shooter will get bigger magazines somewhere else. I don’t know what type of background checks there doing but in NJ it is extensive as well as our mental illness check. Also in every school shooting kids new, friends new and things were posted. Kids need to open there mouth whether they think it’s a joke or not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not if those magazines are made obselete.

Yes the kids need to speak up, but they need the proper support when doing so, and they need to trust the people in charge again. But first we need to put good common sense educated people in charge again, and that ain't by using the system or ways in which has created all that we see now. What a flipping mess we got in this nation now. Good grief.

Those magazines will never be obsolete. They have been around since the 40’s.


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[basquebromance]

why isn't anyone talking about the link between psychiatric medications and mass shootings?! THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM!

 

[KissMy]

why isn't anyone talking about the link between psychiatric medications and mass shootings?! THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM!

Yeah right! You're so stupid! Nobody ever talks about that! LOL

Republicans are in the pocket of Big Pharma & help them bankrupt & destroy the USA! Drug them up, Arm them & enjoy the show!

 

[elongobardi]

why isn't anyone talking about the link between psychiatric medications and mass shootings?! THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM!

Yeah right! You're so stupid! Nobody ever talks about that! LOL

Republicans are in the pocket of Big Pharma & help them bankrupt & destroy the USA! Drug them up, Arm them & enjoy the show!

Yeah coming from the thief liberals who skate on income taxes as the rich assholes they are. Oh yeah and Clinton hasn’t gotten people murdered and her back alley deals which made her millions. I’ll listen to people like you. Then you have Obama the worst president ever.


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[2aguy]

To prevent shootings from hotel windows don't let people with guns into hotels

Are you really that fucking stupid to realize that your laws and gun bans won't do jack shit?

Oh Sweet Baby Jesus- How did I know THIS would be coming?

1. Vegas hosts many MANY gun shows - are you going to stop dealers from all over the world bringing guns into a gun show?
2. Nevada gun laws are loose & Lax as shit (or as Ex-Lax if you will) Stephen Paddock owned over 40 guns. Nevada law made that easy.

But taking your idiocy to even higher levels: How will you prevent kids from taking guns onto your brilliant idea of staggered school buses? The beach at spring break?? A public park on Memorial Day???

Dude, please stop - You randomly fluctuate between illogic, illiteracy and just flat-out ILL.

So what if he owned 40 guns? There are many like him who own even more who don't shoot other people. He only used two you dumb ass.....there are close to 600 million guns in private hands, genius....and the number of people killed by mass shooters is less than 75 a year.....the only outlier is the Vegas shooting.....and less than 75 is less than the number killed by lawn mowers every year....

 

[2aguy]

The first action taken by us is to peer into the world of the shooter (in which could go straight to the shooters ability to do damage, by looking into his world while he holds the gun in his hand). We should look maybe to limit his abilities to do major damage in the format that he has chosen to use (i.e the weapon of choice and try to understand his reasoning behind the choice that was made).

Ok we are in his world now, and he is holding his weapon, now what can we do in order to stop his ability to kill so many while we are along for the observational ride ?

The first observation to maybe observe, is what type of weapon he chooses and why, and what would I do to counter what I see in order to slow him down ??? Wouldn't it be wise to have his weapon already limited in respect to his ability to rapidly kill as many as he can in the moment ??? How would we do that ? If made the clip of such a weapon limited to 2 bullets per clip, and created a couple of hoops for him to have to jump through in order to not so quickly change out the clip, then would this help ???? Otherwise it's Pow, pow, and then a button is held while another lever is pulled in order to change out the clip (somewhat complicated).

All things that slow down the death rates in the situation is a good thing right ??

Now go from there, and tell us what you would do once leave the person, and move into his twisted mind ?

After leaving the shooter totally, then let's go into the school yard, and see what needs to be done there, and then let's go into the school next.

After that talk about implementing strategies and full proof ways to stop this stuff by having a complete and comprehensive plan in place after all is said and done, then we should move on to other good ideas while always preserving the rights and freedoms we as good citizens enjoy in this country.

Yes, screening is important prior to the purchasing of a gun, and no one of a shady character prone to doing bad things by proof of should get their hands on a gun ever.

Sorry, you are wrong....the magazine size doesn't matter...what matters, as the experts will tell you, is the time he has in the gun free zone with unarmed victims....time....time before another good person with a gun gets there to confront him. And it can be any good guy...a civilian with a gun will shut down a shooter because they surrender, run away or commit suicide as soon as they are confronted......that is the key.

 

[elongobardi]

To prevent shootings from hotel windows don't let people with guns into hotels

Are you really that fucking stupid to realize that your laws and gun bans won't do jack shit?

Oh Sweet Baby Jesus- How did I know THIS would be coming?

1. Vegas hosts many MANY gun shows - are you going to stop dealers from all over the world bringing guns into a gun show?
2. Nevada gun laws are loose & Lax as shit (or as Ex-Lax if you will) Stephen Paddock owned over 40 guns. Nevada law made that easy.

But taking your idiocy to even higher levels: How will you prevent kids from taking guns onto your brilliant idea of staggered school buses? The beach at spring break?? A public park on Memorial Day???

Dude, please stop - You randomly fluctuate between illogic, illiteracy and just flat-out ILL.

So what if he owned 40 guns? There are many like him who own even more who don't shoot other people. He only used two you dumb ass.....there are close to 600 million guns in private hands, genius....and the number of people killed by mass shooters is less than 75 a year.....the only outlier is the Vegas shooting.....and less than 75 is less than the number killed by lawn mowers every year....

Well said. Someone who thinks like me.


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[elongobardi]

The first action taken by us is to peer into the world of the shooter (in which could go straight to the shooters ability to do damage, by looking into his world while he holds the gun in his hand). We should look maybe to limit his abilities to do major damage in the format that he has chosen to use (i.e the weapon of choice and try to understand his reasoning behind the choice that was made).

Ok we are in his world now, and he is holding his weapon, now what can we do in order to stop his ability to kill so many while we are along for the observational ride ?

The first observation to maybe observe, is what type of weapon he chooses and why, and what would I do to counter what I see in order to slow him down ??? Wouldn't it be wise to have his weapon already limited in respect to his ability to rapidly kill as many as he can in the moment ??? How would we do that ? If made the clip of such a weapon limited to 2 bullets per clip, and created a couple of hoops for him to have to jump through in order to not so quickly change out the clip, then would this help ???? Otherwise it's Pow, pow, and then a button is held while another lever is pulled in order to change out the clip (somewhat complicated).

All things that slow down the death rates in the situation is a good thing right ??

Now go from there, and tell us what you would do once leave the person, and move into his twisted mind ?

After leaving the shooter totally, then let's go into the school yard, and see what needs to be done there, and then let's go into the school next.

After that talk about implementing strategies and full proof ways to stop this stuff by having a complete and comprehensive plan in place after all is said and done, then we should move on to other good ideas while always preserving the rights and freedoms we as good citizens enjoy in this country.

Yes, screening is important prior to the purchasing of a gun, and no one of a shady character prone to doing bad things by proof of should get their hands on a gun ever.

Sorry, you are wrong....the magazine size doesn't matter...what matters, as the experts will tell you, is the time he has in the gun free zone with unarmed victims....time....time before another good person with a gun gets there to confront him. And it can be any good guy...a civilian with a gun will shut down a shooter because they surrender, run away or commit suicide as soon as they are confronted......that is the key.

Amen. That is the truth but liberals will argue just to argue. I agree. Shooters will bail out once confronted by an armed citizen or school resource officer


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[2aguy]

To prevent shootings from hotel windows don't let people with guns into hotels

Are you really that fucking stupid to realize that your laws and gun bans won't do jack shit?

Oh Sweet Baby Jesus- How did I know THIS would be coming?

1. Vegas hosts many MANY gun shows - are you going to stop dealers from all over the world bringing guns into a gun show?
2. Nevada gun laws are loose & Lax as shit (or as Ex-Lax if you will) Stephen Paddock owned over 40 guns. Nevada law made that easy.

But taking your idiocy to even higher levels: How will you prevent kids from taking guns onto your brilliant idea of staggered school buses? The beach at spring break?? A public park on Memorial Day???

Dude, please stop - You randomly fluctuate between illogic, illiteracy and just flat-out ILL.

So what if he owned 40 guns? There are many like him who own even more who don't shoot other people. He only used two you dumb ass.....there are close to 600 million guns in private hands, genius....and the number of people killed by mass shooters is less than 75 a year.....the only outlier is the Vegas shooting.....and less than 75 is less than the number killed by lawn mowers every year....

Well said. Someone who thinks like me.


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There are a lot of normal people on U.Smessageboard, and then you also have left wing, anti gun, nutjobs too....

 

[elongobardi]

To prevent shootings from hotel windows don't let people with guns into hotels

Are you really that fucking stupid to realize that your laws and gun bans won't do jack shit?

Oh Sweet Baby Jesus- How did I know THIS would be coming?

1. Vegas hosts many MANY gun shows - are you going to stop dealers from all over the world bringing guns into a gun show?
2. Nevada gun laws are loose & Lax as shit (or as Ex-Lax if you will) Stephen Paddock owned over 40 guns. Nevada law made that easy.

But taking your idiocy to even higher levels: How will you prevent kids from taking guns onto your brilliant idea of staggered school buses? The beach at spring break?? A public park on Memorial Day???

Dude, please stop - You randomly fluctuate between illogic, illiteracy and just flat-out ILL.

So what if he owned 40 guns? There are many like him who own even more who don't shoot other people. He only used two you dumb ass.....there are close to 600 million guns in private hands, genius....and the number of people killed by mass shooters is less than 75 a year.....the only outlier is the Vegas shooting.....and less than 75 is less than the number killed by lawn mowers every year....

Well said. Someone who thinks like me.


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There are a lot of normal people on U.Smessageboard, and then you also have left wing, anti gun, nutjobs too....

True


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[beagle9]

The first action taken by us is to peer into the world of the shooter (in which could go straight to the shooters ability to do damage, by looking into his world while he holds the gun in his hand). We should look maybe to limit his abilities to do major damage in the format that he has chosen to use (i.e the weapon of choice and try to understand his reasoning behind the choice that was made).

Ok we are in his world now, and he is holding his weapon, now what can we do in order to stop his ability to kill so many while we are along for the observational ride ?

The first observation to maybe observe, is what type of weapon he chooses and why, and what would I do to counter what I see in order to slow him down ??? Wouldn't it be wise to have his weapon already limited in respect to his ability to rapidly kill as many as he can in the moment ??? How would we do that ? If made the clip of such a weapon limited to 2 bullets per clip, and created a couple of hoops for him to have to jump through in order to not so quickly change out the clip, then would this help ???? Otherwise it's Pow, pow, and then a button is held while another lever is pulled in order to change out the clip (somewhat complicated).

All things that slow down the death rates in the situation is a good thing right ??

Now go from there, and tell us what you would do once leave the person, and move into his twisted mind ?

After leaving the shooter totally, then let's go into the school yard, and see what needs to be done there, and then let's go into the school next.

After that talk about implementing strategies and full proof ways to stop this stuff by having a complete and comprehensive plan in place after all is said and done, then we should move on to other good ideas while always preserving the rights and freedoms we as good citizens enjoy in this country.

Yes, screening is important prior to the purchasing of a gun, and no one of a shady character prone to doing bad things by proof of should get their hands on a gun ever.

Sorry, you are wrong....the magazine size doesn't matter...what matters, as the experts will tell you, is the time he has in the gun free zone with unarmed victims....time....time before another good person with a gun gets there to confront him. And it can be any good guy...a civilian with a gun will shut down a shooter because they surrender, run away or commit suicide as soon as they are confronted......that is the key.

Ok, so it is TIME you say right ? Alright in the time it takes for him to empty a 30 round clip into the targets that he chooses to do so on, would it be more or less damage if he had a two round clip verses that 30 round clip ??? Is it easier to tackle a person while emptying a 30 round clip or a 2 round clip ??? Time is also important in the pause as well. After two rounds he would hopefully have to pause to either grab another clip, gun or what ever. This could be the slim window of opportunity to get him before he gets started again.

This is very simple stuff if you want to use time as a gauge in the shooting in order to figure the differences in outcomes. Every single thing has to be considered here, and no stone should be left unturned in figuring out how to save our children's lives from these monsters. To ignore any aspect of the study is to be irresponsible and unconscionable at the least.

 

[beagle9]

The first action taken by us is to peer into the world of the shooter (in which could go straight to the shooters ability to do damage, by looking into his world while he holds the gun in his hand). We should look maybe to limit his abilities to do major damage in the format that he has chosen to use (i.e the weapon of choice and try to understand his reasoning behind the choice that was made).

Ok we are in his world now, and he is holding his weapon, now what can we do in order to stop his ability to kill so many while we are along for the observational ride ?

The first observation to maybe observe, is what type of weapon he chooses and why, and what would I do to counter what I see in order to slow him down ??? Wouldn't it be wise to have his weapon already limited in respect to his ability to rapidly kill as many as he can in the moment ??? How would we do that ? If made the clip of such a weapon limited to 2 bullets per clip, and created a couple of hoops for him to have to jump through in order to not so quickly change out the clip, then would this help ???? Otherwise it's Pow, pow, and then a button is held while another lever is pulled in order to change out the clip (somewhat complicated).

All things that slow down the death rates in the situation is a good thing right ??

Now go from there, and tell us what you would do once leave the person, and move into his twisted mind ?

After leaving the shooter totally, then let's go into the school yard, and see what needs to be done there, and then let's go into the school next.

After that talk about implementing strategies and full proof ways to stop this stuff by having a complete and comprehensive plan in place after all is said and done, then we should move on to other good ideas while always preserving the rights and freedoms we as good citizens enjoy in this country.

Yes, screening is important prior to the purchasing of a gun, and no one of a shady character prone to doing bad things by proof of should get their hands on a gun ever.

Sorry, you are wrong....the magazine size doesn't matter...what matters, as the experts will tell you, is the time he has in the gun free zone with unarmed victims....time....time before another good person with a gun gets there to confront him. And it can be any good guy...a civilian with a gun will shut down a shooter because they surrender, run away or commit suicide as soon as they are confronted......that is the key.

Amen. That is the truth but liberals will argue just to argue. I agree. Shooters will bail out once confronted by an armed citizen or school resource officer


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That is one aspect of it sure, but to ignore other aspects of it is foolish.

 

[2aguy]

The first action taken by us is to peer into the world of the shooter (in which could go straight to the shooters ability to do damage, by looking into his world while he holds the gun in his hand). We should look maybe to limit his abilities to do major damage in the format that he has chosen to use (i.e the weapon of choice and try to understand his reasoning behind the choice that was made).

Ok we are in his world now, and he is holding his weapon, now what can we do in order to stop his ability to kill so many while we are along for the observational ride ?

The first observation to maybe observe, is what type of weapon he chooses and why, and what would I do to counter what I see in order to slow him down ??? Wouldn't it be wise to have his weapon already limited in respect to his ability to rapidly kill as many as he can in the moment ??? How would we do that ? If made the clip of such a weapon limited to 2 bullets per clip, and created a couple of hoops for him to have to jump through in order to not so quickly change out the clip, then would this help ???? Otherwise it's Pow, pow, and then a button is held while another lever is pulled in order to change out the clip (somewhat complicated).

All things that slow down the death rates in the situation is a good thing right ??

Now go from there, and tell us what you would do once leave the person, and move into his twisted mind ?

After leaving the shooter totally, then let's go into the school yard, and see what needs to be done there, and then let's go into the school next.

After that talk about implementing strategies and full proof ways to stop this stuff by having a complete and comprehensive plan in place after all is said and done, then we should move on to other good ideas while always preserving the rights and freedoms we as good citizens enjoy in this country.

Yes, screening is important prior to the purchasing of a gun, and no one of a shady character prone to doing bad things by proof of should get their hands on a gun ever.

Sorry, you are wrong....the magazine size doesn't matter...what matters, as the experts will tell you, is the time he has in the gun free zone with unarmed victims....time....time before another good person with a gun gets there to confront him. And it can be any good guy...a civilian with a gun will shut down a shooter because they surrender, run away or commit suicide as soon as they are confronted......that is the key.

Ok, so it is TIME you say right ? Alright in the time it takes for him to empty a 30 round clip into the targets that he chooses to do so on, would it be more or less damage if he had a two round clip verses that 30 round clip ??? Is it easier to tackle a person while emptying a 30 round clip or a 2 round clip ??? Time is also important in the pause as well. After two rounds he would hopefully have to pause to either grab another clip, gun or what ever. This could be the slim window of opportunity to get him before he gets started again.

This is very simple stuff if you want to use time as a gauge in the shooting in order to figure the differences in outcomes. Every single thing has to be considered here, and no stone should be left unturned in figuring out how to save our children's lives from these monsters. To ignore any aspect of the study is to be irresponsible and unconscionable at the least.

Here...read the actual research...

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1525107116674926

Large-Capacity Magazines and the Casualty Counts in Mass Shootings: The Plausibility of Linkages by Gary Kleck :: SSRN

Do bans on large-capacity magazines (LCMs) for semiautomatic firearms have significant potential for reducing the number of deaths and injuries in mass shootings?
The most common rationale for an effect of LCM use is that they allow mass killers to fire many rounds without reloading.
LCMs are used is less than 1/3 of 1% of mass shootings.
News accounts of 23 shootings in which more than six people were killed or wounded and LCMs were used, occurring in the U.S. in 1994-2013, were examined.
There was only one incident in which the shooter may have been stopped by bystander intervention when he tried to reload.
In all of these 23 incidents the shooter possessed either multiple guns or multiple magazines, meaning that the shooter, even if denied LCMs, could have continued firing without significant interruption by either switching loaded guns or by changing smaller loaded magazines with only a 2-4 second delay for each magazine change.
Finally, the data indicate that mass shooters maintain slow enough rates of fire such that the time needed to reload would not increase the time between shots and thus the time available for prospective victims to escape.

--------

We did not employ the oft-used definition of “mass murder” as a homicide in which four or more victims were killed, because most of these involve just four to six victims (Duwe 2007), which could therefore have involved as few as six rounds fired, a number that shooters using even ordinary revolvers are capable of firing without reloading.

LCMs obviously cannot help shooters who fire no more rounds than could be fired without LCMs, so the inclusion of “nonaffectable” cases with only four to six victims would dilute the sample, reducing the percent of sample incidents in which an LCM might have affected the number of casualties.

Further, had we studied only homicides with four or more dead victims, drawn from the FBI’s Supplementary Homicide Reports, we would have missed cases in which huge numbers of people were shot, and huge numbers of rounds were fired, but three or fewer of the victims died.


For example, in one widely publicized shooting carried out in Los Angeles on February 28, 1997, two bank robbers shot a total of 18 people - surely a mass shooting by any reasonable standard (Table 1).

Yet, because none of the people they shot died, this incident would not qualify as a mass murder (or even murder of any kind).

Exclusion of such incidents would bias the sample against the proposition that LCM use increases the number of victims by excluding incidents with large numbers of victims. We also excluded shootings in which more than six persons were shot over the entire course of the incident but shootings occurred in multiple locations with no more than six people shot in any one of the locations, and substantial periods of time intervened between episodes of shooting. An example is the series of killings committed by Rodrick Dantzler on July 7, 2011.

Once eligible incidents were identified, we searched through news accounts for details related to whether the use of LCMs could have influenced the casualty counts.

Specifically, we searched for

(1) the number of magazines in the shooter’s immediate possession,

(2) the capacity of the largest magazine,

(3) the number of guns in the shooter’s immediate possession during the incident,

(4) the types of guns possessed,

(5) whether the shooter reloaded during the incident,

(6) the number of rounds fired,

(7) the duration of the shooting from the first shot fired to the last, and (8) whether anyone intervened to stop the shooter.

Findings How Many Mass Shootings were Committed Using LCMs?

We identified 23 total incidents in which more than six people were shot at a single time and place in the U.S. from 1994 through 2013 and that were known to involve use of any magazines with capacities over ten rounds.


Table 1 summarizes key details of the LCMinvolved mass shootings relevant to the issues addressed in this paper.

(Table 1 about here) What fraction of all mass shootings involve LCMs?

There is no comprehensive listing of all mass shootings available for the entire 1994-2013 period, but the most extensive one currently available is at the Shootingtracker.com website, which only began its coverage in 2013.

-----


-----
The offenders in LCM-involved mass shootings were also known to have reloaded during 14 of the 23 (61%) incidents with magazine holding over 10 rounds.

The shooters were known to have not reloaded in another two of these 20 incidents and it could not be determined if they reloaded in the remaining seven incidents.

Thus, even if the shooters had been denied LCMs, we know that most of them definitely would have been able to reload smaller detachable magazines without interference from bystanders since they in fact did change magazines.

The fact that this percentage is less than 100% should not, however, be interpreted to mean that the shooters were unable to reload in the other nine incidents.

It is possible that the shooters could also have reloaded in many of these nine shootings, but chose not to do so, or did not need to do so in order to fire all the rounds they wanted to fire. This is consistent with the fact that there has been at most only one mass shootings in twenty years in which reloading a semiautomatic firearm might have been blocked by bystanders intervening and thereby stopping the shooter from doing all the shooting he wanted to do. All we know is that in two incidents the shooter did not reload, and news accounts of seven other incidents did not mention whether the offender reloaded.

----

For example, a story in the Hartford Courant about the Sandy Hook elementary school killings in 2012 was headlined “Shooter Paused, and Six Escaped,” the text asserting that as many as six children may have survived because the shooter paused to reload (December 23, 2012). ''

The author of the story, however, went on to concede that this was just a speculation by an unnamed source, and that it was also possible that some children simply escaped when the killer was shooting other children.

There was no reliable evidence that the pauses were due to the shooter reloading, rather than his guns jamming or the shooter simply choosing to pause his shooting while his gun was still loaded.

The plausibility of the “victims escape” rationale depends on the average rates of fire that shooters in mass shootings typically maintain.

If they fire very fast, the 2-4 seconds it takes to change box-type detachable magazines could produce a slowing of the rate of fire that the shooters otherwise would have maintained without the magazine changes, increasing the average time between rounds fired and potentially allowing more victims to escape during the betweenshot intervals.

On the other hand, if mass shooters fire their guns with the average interval between shots lasting more than 2-4 seconds, the pauses due to additional magazine changes would be no longer than the pauses the shooter typically took between shots even when not reloading.

In that case, there would be no more opportunity for potential victims to escape than there would have been without the additional magazine changes

-----


http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1525107116674926

In sum, in nearly all LCM-involved mass shootings, the time it takes to reload a detachable magazine is no greater than the average time between shots that the shooter takes anyway when not reloading.

Consequently, there is no affirmative evidence that reloading detachable magazines slows mass shooters’ rates of fire, and thus no affirmative evidence that the number of victims who could escape the killers due to additional pauses in the shooting is increased by the shooter’s need to change magazines.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

No - 21 minimum age - 3 day waiting period.

I am quite on topic.

Then stick to school shootings and none of that shit will stop a person from walking onto a school with a gun

If you want to prevent school shootings you have to prevent people from walking into a school with a gun

That has worked so well at preventing bank robberies. No ever uses a gun to rob a bank anymore.

When was the last time anyone was checked for a gun before they went into a bank?

Why are you making my point for me?

Your only point is that schools are already secure and it's impossible to stop people with guns from just walking in

If they are obviously not a student, it's easy! If I tried to walk into a school without my ID badge, they won't let me inside, except to the office where they can verify who I am and why I am there!

Adam Lanza obviously didn't belong at Sandy Hook and that's why he had to shoot out the glass in order to get in!

Almost all of the other school shooters were students or former students, Makes it hard to pick them out of a crowd.

 

[elongobardi]

The first action taken by us is to peer into the world of the shooter (in which could go straight to the shooters ability to do damage, by looking into his world while he holds the gun in his hand). We should look maybe to limit his abilities to do major damage in the format that he has chosen to use (i.e the weapon of choice and try to understand his reasoning behind the choice that was made).

Ok we are in his world now, and he is holding his weapon, now what can we do in order to stop his ability to kill so many while we are along for the observational ride ?

The first observation to maybe observe, is what type of weapon he chooses and why, and what would I do to counter what I see in order to slow him down ??? Wouldn't it be wise to have his weapon already limited in respect to his ability to rapidly kill as many as he can in the moment ??? How would we do that ? If made the clip of such a weapon limited to 2 bullets per clip, and created a couple of hoops for him to have to jump through in order to not so quickly change out the clip, then would this help ???? Otherwise it's Pow, pow, and then a button is held while another lever is pulled in order to change out the clip (somewhat complicated).

All things that slow down the death rates in the situation is a good thing right ??

Now go from there, and tell us what you would do once leave the person, and move into his twisted mind ?

After leaving the shooter totally, then let's go into the school yard, and see what needs to be done there, and then let's go into the school next.

After that talk about implementing strategies and full proof ways to stop this stuff by having a complete and comprehensive plan in place after all is said and done, then we should move on to other good ideas while always preserving the rights and freedoms we as good citizens enjoy in this country.

Yes, screening is important prior to the purchasing of a gun, and no one of a shady character prone to doing bad things by proof of should get their hands on a gun ever.

Sorry, you are wrong....the magazine size doesn't matter...what matters, as the experts will tell you, is the time he has in the gun free zone with unarmed victims....time....time before another good person with a gun gets there to confront him. And it can be any good guy...a civilian with a gun will shut down a shooter because they surrender, run away or commit suicide as soon as they are confronted......that is the key.

Amen. That is the truth but liberals will argue just to argue. I agree. Shooters will bail out once confronted by an armed citizen or school resource officer


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That is one aspect of it sure, but to ignore other aspects of it is foolish.

The magazine capacity can be altered as well if anyone wanted to It’s simple. Also shooters will normally tape two magazines together so all they have to do is turn the magazine upside down and your shooting again. I could sit here for an hour and list ways to do it. They can use a handgun with hollow point bullets and kill just as many cause some handguns can be altered if you know what your doing or read it on the internet to fully automatic. Where the squeeze the trigger and empty the magazine and pop in another one in two seconds and keep going. There are easier ways to stop the shootings where everyone is happy.


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[elongobardi]

The first action taken by us is to peer into the world of the shooter (in which could go straight to the shooters ability to do damage, by looking into his world while he holds the gun in his hand). We should look maybe to limit his abilities to do major damage in the format that he has chosen to use (i.e the weapon of choice and try to understand his reasoning behind the choice that was made).

Ok we are in his world now, and he is holding his weapon, now what can we do in order to stop his ability to kill so many while we are along for the observational ride ?

The first observation to maybe observe, is what type of weapon he chooses and why, and what would I do to counter what I see in order to slow him down ??? Wouldn't it be wise to have his weapon already limited in respect to his ability to rapidly kill as many as he can in the moment ??? How would we do that ? If made the clip of such a weapon limited to 2 bullets per clip, and created a couple of hoops for him to have to jump through in order to not so quickly change out the clip, then would this help ???? Otherwise it's Pow, pow, and then a button is held while another lever is pulled in order to change out the clip (somewhat complicated).

All things that slow down the death rates in the situation is a good thing right ??

Now go from there, and tell us what you would do once leave the person, and move into his twisted mind ?

After leaving the shooter totally, then let's go into the school yard, and see what needs to be done there, and then let's go into the school next.

After that talk about implementing strategies and full proof ways to stop this stuff by having a complete and comprehensive plan in place after all is said and done, then we should move on to other good ideas while always preserving the rights and freedoms we as good citizens enjoy in this country.

Yes, screening is important prior to the purchasing of a gun, and no one of a shady character prone to doing bad things by proof of should get their hands on a gun ever.

Sorry, you are wrong....the magazine size doesn't matter...what matters, as the experts will tell you, is the time he has in the gun free zone with unarmed victims....time....time before another good person with a gun gets there to confront him. And it can be any good guy...a civilian with a gun will shut down a shooter because they surrender, run away or commit suicide as soon as they are confronted......that is the key.

Ok, so it is TIME you say right ? Alright in the time it takes for him to empty a 30 round clip into the targets that he chooses to do so on, would it be more or less damage if he had a two round clip verses that 30 round clip ??? Is it easier to tackle a person while emptying a 30 round clip or a 2 round clip ??? Time is also important in the pause as well. After two rounds he would hopefully have to pause to either grab another clip, gun or what ever. This could be the slim window of opportunity to get him before he gets started again.

This is very simple stuff if you want to use time as a gauge in the shooting in order to figure the differences in outcomes. Every single thing has to be considered here, and no stone should be left unturned in figuring out how to save our children's lives from these monsters. To ignore any aspect of the study is to be irresponsible and unconscionable at the least.

I take it you know nothing about guns. The kid in Florida had 10 round magazines not 30. Now if like me I keep a gun in my safe which has an key-fob and bracelet to open it. Now normally a home invasion is at least two bad guys. What the fuck good is a 2 round magazine. Even a burglar at night, it’s dark and you get waken up and are startled. Two rounds is not going to help. I live in the teal world where I am a retired police officer. Put me in a school and no one is getting in. Now it depends on how big the school is. In Florida the school was massive. They had one retired cop and three unarmed security officers who are useless in an active shooter scenario. There should have been 3 or 4 retired cops or military veterans working there. We all are trained in active shooter scenarios. Needless to say the military guys are superbly trained as well. Guess no more school shootings. You blame the gun for Florida but what about the FBI whose watch list he was on and they never looked into to it, or the 4 chicken shit cops standing outside while the shooting was going on, or his mom before she passed and his family and friends he bounced around after his mom died who wouldn’t let him bring the guns in so he buried them in the backyard or the kids at the school who New him heard his threats saw it on social media and no one said anything or the school who expelled him for bringing bullets to the school. Liberals are stuck on the guns but there were so many failures prior to the shooting. It’s been a Democrat agenda for years to ban and restrict guns. I love how the want to piss on the second amendment but let other worse things go. Your going to tell me no one noticed the guy in Vegas bringing in a big duffel bag. Come on there are breakdowns everywhere. We should be more vigilant because of terrorist but we miss simple signs or just don’t want to be bother. All the people that fucked up in Florida have to live with themselves. If you have seen what I have you would think differently. We are worried about stupid shit in this country. Our priorities are all screwed up. We have to worry about transgender, black lives matter, gay and lesbian rights, the list goes on. That is all bullshit, we need to worry about keeping our country safe and our kids safe, that is more important. We piss money away on welfare and illegal aliens when we should be worrying about our country. I have nothing against welfare but for people who deserve it. Most people on welfare and food stamps know how to work the system. I have a problem when a woman pays with food stamps but is carrying a 1000 dollar purse and getting in a BMW or Mercedes.


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[FA_Q2]

It does no such thing. Females by their nature are less likely to commit murder in the first place.

Males by their very nature are more violent.

What’s your point?

From the British Medical Journal:

Antidepressants increase the risk of suicide, violence and homicide at all ages

Most people are calm by nature. Most people are alert by nature. Most people are able to walk a straight line by nature. Drugs change those natural tendencies.

Indeed

Drugs will often make the individual less able to deal with balance, so walking the straight line is harder

Most people are alert by nature, and these drugs make them even more alert and focused on their rage.

Most are calm by nature, these drugs make them 50% more likely to commit violent crimes.

What’s your point?

If drugs were the cause, girls would be shooting up schools too.

That’s been explained before. Stating the same discredited argument will not make it any better.

The big difference between men and women who kill

90% of murders are committed by men. And men commit murder for different reasons than women.

Pfft...

If a woman drinks too much alcohol, a drug, she gets drunk. The same with men who drink too much.

The outcomes are the same regardless.

If SSRIs, a drug, turned kids into killers, the outcome would be the same regardless of gender: just like alcohol

No, they are not. A man gets drunk and he is FAR more likely to be disorderly and/or violent.

It is asinine to state that women not resorting to violence somehow means that the drugs in question cannot be the cause. I can state that about anything - clearly easy access to guns is not the problem. Women have just as easy access to guns but don't shoot up schools. That is an asinine statement.