Yet Another Israeli Injustice To Palestinians

[docmauser1]

One example of this second phase was the expulsion of Arabs living in Lydda (present-day Lod) and Ramleh. On 12 July 1948, within the framework of Operation Dani, a skirmish with Jordanian armoured forces served as a pretext for a violent backlash, with 250 killed, some of whom were unarmed prisoners. This was followed by a forced evacuation characterised by summary executions and looting and involving upwards of 70,000 Palestinian civilians - almost 10% of the total exodus of 1947- 49. Similar scenarios were enacted, as Morris shows, in central Galilee, Upper Galilee and the northern Negev, as well as in the post-war expulsion of the Palestinians of Al Majdal (Ashkelon). Most of these operations (with the exception of the latter) were marked by atrocities - a fact which led Aharon Zisling, the minister of agriculture, to tell the Israeli cabinet on 17 November 1948: “I couldn’t sleep all night. I felt that things that were going on were hurting my soul, the soul of my family and all of us here (...) Now Jews too have behaved like Nazis and my entire being has been shaken (10).”="docmauser1, post: 9864848, member: 25338"]

Another "interpretation" from RoccoR. The war had started on 30th November 1947.

Funny, palstanians didn't exist then, of course.

The neighbouring states intervened much later when the Zionists declared their state.

Funny drivel. But I'm here to spread the light! So, back to chronology:

• 
  
  
  • May 15, 1947 - The General Assembly established a Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP).
  • August 31 - The UNSCOP recommended partition of Palestine with an internationalised Jerusalem, a minority report recommended a federation.
  • September 29 - The Arab higher committee rejected the UNSCOP recommendation formally.
  • October 2 - The Jewish agency accepted the UNSCOP recommendation formally.
  • November 29 - The UN approved the partition.
  • November 30 - Arab mobs attacked jews in Jerusalem, arab armed thugs began operations against jews everywhere.
  • March 19, 1948 - The US proposed a partition suspension and called for a special session of the GA to discuss trusteeship.
  • April 1 - The Security Council called for a truce and a special session of the GA to reconsider future of Palestine.
  • May 13 - Jaffa arab thugs got their asses kicked by hagana.
  • May 14 - Declaration of Independence. The US recognized Israel de facto.
  • May 14 - The British mandate ended. Arab armies invaded Israel.
  • May 17 - The USSR recognized Israel.
  • May 19 - Jerusalem cut off by arabs.
  • May 1948 - July 1949 - War.

"Funny, palstanians didn't exist then, of course." Palstanians did not exist, of course. Never actually heard of these people.

How so? They claim to be there from time immemorial, or for eons, or whatever, of course!

Palestinians, however, had existed at least since the early 1920's when the Palestine Arab Congress were formed and sent the first Palestinian Arab Delegations to conferences with the British in London.

That is Arabs, A-RABS!

Your chronology is balderdash. Jew thugs began planning ethnic cleansing in 1895:
" "We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our own country... expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly. Theodor Herzl"

procuring employment!!! Very much humane, indeed! Not like arabs, of course.

and was completed through the successful execution of Plan Dalet in 1948.

Maybe, Plan Majestic 12? Since, according to Benny Morris, There was no Zionist "plan" or blanket policy of evicting the Arab population, or of "ethnic cleansing"., of course.

What really happened: "One example of this second phase was the expulsion of Arabs living in Lydda (present-day Lod) and Ramleh. On 12 July 1948, within the framework of Operation Dani, a skirmish with Jordanian armoured forces served as a pretext for a violent backlash, with 250 killed, some of whom were unarmed prisoners. This was followed by a forced evacuation characterised by summary executions and looting and involving upwards of 70,000 Palestinian civilians - almost 10% of the total exodus of 1947- 49. Similar scenarios were enacted, as Morris shows, in central Galilee, Upper Galilee and the northern Negev, as well as in the post-war expulsion of the Palestinians of Al Majdal (Ashkelon). Most of these operations (with the exception of the latter) were marked by atrocities - a fact which led Aharon Zisling, the minister of agriculture, to tell the Israeli cabinet on 17 November 1948: “I couldn’t sleep all night. I felt that things that were going on were hurting my soul, the soul of my family and all of us here (...) Now Jews too have behaved like Nazis and my entire being has been shaken (10).”The expulsion of the Palestinians re-examined - Le Monde diplomatique

Funny, Le Monde Antisemitique of 1997 quotes Morris. Here's some Morris then "There was no Zionist "plan" or blanket policy of evicting the Arab population, or of "ethnic cleansing". Plan Dalet (Plan D), of March 10th, 1948 (it is open and available for all to read in the IDF Archive and in various publications), was the master plan of the Haganah - the Jewish military force that became the Israel Defence Forces (IDF) - to counter the expected pan-Arab assault on the emergent Jewish state. That's what it explicitly states and that's what it was. And the invasion of the armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Iraq duly occurred, on May 15th.
It is true that Plan D gave the regional commanders carte blanche to occupy and garrison or expel and destroy the Arab villages along and behind the front lines and the anticipated Arab armies' invasion routes. And it is also true that mid-way in the 1948 war the Israeli leaders decided to bar the return of the "refugees" (those "refugees" who had just assaulted the Jewish community), viewing them as a potential fifth column and threat to the Jewish state's existence. I for one cannot fault their fears or logic."
Kewl.

 

[montelatici]

One example of this second phase was the expulsion of Arabs living in Lydda (present-day Lod) and Ramleh. On 12 July 1948, within the framework of Operation Dani, a skirmish with Jordanian armoured forces served as a pretext for a violent backlash, with 250 killed, some of whom were unarmed prisoners. This was followed by a forced evacuation characterised by summary executions and looting and involving upwards of 70,000 Palestinian civilians - almost 10% of the total exodus of 1947- 49. Similar scenarios were enacted, as Morris shows, in central Galilee, Upper Galilee and the northern Negev, as well as in the post-war expulsion of the Palestinians of Al Majdal (Ashkelon). Most of these operations (with the exception of the latter) were marked by atrocities - a fact which led Aharon Zisling, the minister of agriculture, to tell the Israeli cabinet on 17 November 1948: “I couldn’t sleep all night. I felt that things that were going on were hurting my soul, the soul of my family and all of us here (...) Now Jews too have behaved like Nazis and my entire being has been shaken (10).”="docmauser1, post: 9864848, member: 25338"]

Another "interpretation" from RoccoR. The war had started on 30th November 1947.

Funny, palstanians didn't exist then, of course.

The neighbouring states intervened much later when the Zionists declared their state.

Funny drivel. But I'm here to spread the light! So, back to chronology:

• 
  
  
  • May 15, 1947 - The General Assembly established a Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP).
  • August 31 - The UNSCOP recommended partition of Palestine with an internationalised Jerusalem, a minority report recommended a federation.
  • September 29 - The Arab higher committee rejected the UNSCOP recommendation formally.
  • October 2 - The Jewish agency accepted the UNSCOP recommendation formally.
  • November 29 - The UN approved the partition.
  • November 30 - Arab mobs attacked jews in Jerusalem, arab armed thugs began operations against jews everywhere.
  • March 19, 1948 - The US proposed a partition suspension and called for a special session of the GA to discuss trusteeship.
  • April 1 - The Security Council called for a truce and a special session of the GA to reconsider future of Palestine.
  • May 13 - Jaffa arab thugs got their asses kicked by hagana.
  • May 14 - Declaration of Independence. The US recognized Israel de facto.
  • May 14 - The British mandate ended. Arab armies invaded Israel.
  • May 17 - The USSR recognized Israel.
  • May 19 - Jerusalem cut off by arabs.
  • May 1948 - July 1949 - War.

"Funny, palstanians didn't exist then, of course." Palstanians did not exist, of course. Never actually heard of these people.

How so? They claim to be there from time immemorial, or for eons, or whatever, of course!

Palestinians, however, had existed at least since the early 1920's when the Palestine Arab Congress were formed and sent the first Palestinian Arab Delegations to conferences with the British in London.

That is Arabs, A-RABS!

Your chronology is balderdash. Jew thugs began planning ethnic cleansing in 1895:
" "We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our own country... expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly. Theodor Herzl"

procuring employment!!! Very much humane, indeed! Not like arabs, of course.

and was completed through the successful execution of Plan Dalet in 1948.

Maybe, Plan Majestic 12? Since, according to Benny Morris, There was no Zionist "plan" or blanket policy of evicting the Arab population, or of "ethnic cleansing"., of course.

What really happened: "One example of this second phase was the expulsion of Arabs living in Lydda (present-day Lod) and Ramleh. On 12 July 1948, within the framework of Operation Dani, a skirmish with Jordanian armoured forces served as a pretext for a violent backlash, with 250 killed, some of whom were unarmed prisoners. This was followed by a forced evacuation characterised by summary executions and looting and involving upwards of 70,000 Palestinian civilians - almost 10% of the total exodus of 1947- 49. Similar scenarios were enacted, as Morris shows, in central Galilee, Upper Galilee and the northern Negev, as well as in the post-war expulsion of the Palestinians of Al Majdal (Ashkelon). Most of these operations (with the exception of the latter) were marked by atrocities - a fact which led Aharon Zisling, the minister of agriculture, to tell the Israeli cabinet on 17 November 1948: “I couldn’t sleep all night. I felt that things that were going on were hurting my soul, the soul of my family and all of us here (...) Now Jews too have behaved like Nazis and my entire being has been shaken (10).”The expulsion of the Palestinians re-examined - Le Monde diplomatique

Funny, Le Monde Antisemitique of 1997 quotes Morris. Here's some Morris then "There was no Zionist "plan" or blanket policy of evicting the Arab population, or of "ethnic cleansing". Plan Dalet (Plan D), of March 10th, 1948 (it is open and available for all to read in the IDF Archive and in various publications), was the master plan of the Haganah - the Jewish military force that became the Israel Defence Forces (IDF) - to counter the expected pan-Arab assault on the emergent Jewish state. That's what it explicitly states and that's what it was. And the invasion of the armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Iraq duly occurred, on May 15th.
It is true that Plan D gave the regional commanders carte blanche to occupy and garrison or expel and destroy the Arab villages along and behind the front lines and the anticipated Arab armies' invasion routes. And it is also true that mid-way in the 1948 war the Israeli leaders decided to bar the return of the "refugees" (those "refugees" who had just assaulted the Jewish community), viewing them as a potential fifth column and threat to the Jewish state's existence. I for one cannot fault their fears or logic."
Kewl.

Thanks for giving me the opening:

"Benny Morris contrives to make two seemingly contradictory statements within two pages of each other, namely that “Plan D was not a political blueprint for the expulsion of Palestine’s Arabs” and that “from the beginning of April, there are clear traces of an expulsion policy on both national and local levels”.....Already from 1937 we find Ben Gurion (and most of the other Zionist leaders) supporting a ’transfer’ solution to the ’Arab problem’ (...) Come 1948, and the confusions and deplacement of war, and we see Ben Gurion quickly grasp the opportunity for ’Judaising’ the emergent Jewish State” ("1948 and After..., p. 33).

The expulsion of the Palestinians re-examined - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition

 

[MJB12741]

"That is Arabs, A-RABS" Yes, Palestinians, Christian, and Muslim, speak Arabic and they are of the Arab culture as are are those of other nationalities such as Moroccans, Algerians etc. So what?

Since only jews ever called themselves palestinians, right up to 1948, palistanians and their cheerleaders better dispense with their sob-show of love for their "long-lost land and nation", of course.

I learned here that "Israel is stealing 'Palestinian' land." Very cleaver those Israeli Jews stealing their own land.

 

[Challenger]

Challenger, et al,

Yes, this is true --- but improperly interpreted.

Nice, but what our friend Mr RoccoR overlooks is that the Egyptian forces were deployed defensively to cover any Zionist israeli aggressive moves, not to launch an Egyptian offensive. Neither the U.S. nor the Zionists believed Egypt would initiate hostilities. Gen Ahron Yariv, reported at the end of May 1967 Egyptian forces in the Sinai to be in a "state of chaos" and IDF Chief of Staff Rabin stated on 2nd June 1967 that Egyptian forces were deployed defensively in expectation of a Zionist Israeli first strike. Menachim Begin stated after the war, "The Egyptian Arrmy concentrations in the Sinai do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him."

Wise words. Have your own interpretation, by all means, but at least "be honest with yourself".

(COMMENT)

To prove intent --- is very difficult. Yes, the evidence "did not prove" Nassar's intent. But the Israelis saw they were outnumbered tow-to-one, and against an artillery heavy opponent, with additional enemy formations being marshaled and rapidly closing from the East, the probability of an attack was very high.

The best time to strike an attack force is when they are repositioning and deploying --- that is when there is "chaos;" a point at which they are most vulnerable. Of course the Israelis made the decision to attack. (No one disputes that.) The question is a matter of sound defensive strategy. Many wars have started over the mobilization and forward deployment of troops.

If the UAR Forces were being defensively positioned, then they would have never ordered the UNEF to move.

Most Respectfully,
R

It not a matter of interpretation, but a statement of fact. Neither the CIA nor the Zionist Israeli intelligence services believed the UAR was going to attack Zionist Israel. Both militaries estimated that in the current circumstances (May 26-27th 1967) Israel could win a war against the UAR within two weeks no matter who "fired first" and Zionist could win a war within one week if they attacked first.

 

[docmauser1]

It not a matter of interpretation, but a statement of fact. Neither the CIA nor the Zionist Israeli intelligence services believed the UAR was going to attack Zionist Israel. Both militaries estimated that in the current circumstances (May 26-27th 1967) Israel could win a war against the UAR within two weeks no matter who "fired first" and Zionist could win a war within one week if they attacked first.

It's all a matter of nuance, of course.

 

[Challenger]

It not a matter of interpretation, but a statement of fact. Neither the CIA nor the Zionist Israeli intelligence services believed the UAR was going to attack Zionist Israel. Both militaries estimated that in the current circumstances (May 26-27th 1967) Israel could win a war against the UAR within two weeks no matter who "fired first" and Zionist could win a war within one week if they attacked first.

It's all a matter of nuance, of course.

Drivel.

 

[docmauser1]

One example of this second phase was the expulsion of Arabs living in Lydda (present-day Lod) and Ramleh. On 12 July 1948, within the framework of Operation Dani, a skirmish with Jordanian armoured forces served as a pretext for a violent backlash, with 250 killed, some of whom were unarmed prisoners. This was followed by a forced evacuation characterised by summary executions and looting and involving upwards of 70,000 Palestinian civilians - almost 10% of the total exodus of 1947- 49. Similar scenarios were enacted, as Morris shows, in central Galilee, Upper Galilee and the northern Negev, as well as in the post-war expulsion of the Palestinians of Al Majdal (Ashkelon). Most of these operations (with the exception of the latter) were marked by atrocities - a fact which led Aharon Zisling, the minister of agriculture, to tell the Israeli cabinet on 17 November 1948: “I couldn’t sleep all night. I felt that things that were going on were hurting my soul, the soul of my family and all of us here (...) Now Jews too have behaved like Nazis and my entire being has been shaken (10).”="docmauser1, post: 9864848, member: 25338"]

Funny, palstanians didn't exist then, of course.
Funny drivel. But I'm here to spread the light! So, back to chronology:

• 
  
  
  • May 15, 1947 - The General Assembly established a Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP).
  • August 31 - The UNSCOP recommended partition of Palestine with an internationalised Jerusalem, a minority report recommended a federation.
  • September 29 - The Arab higher committee rejected the UNSCOP recommendation formally.
  • October 2 - The Jewish agency accepted the UNSCOP recommendation formally.
  • November 29 - The UN approved the partition.
  • November 30 - Arab mobs attacked jews in Jerusalem, arab armed thugs began operations against jews everywhere.
  • March 19, 1948 - The US proposed a partition suspension and called for a special session of the GA to discuss trusteeship.
  • April 1 - The Security Council called for a truce and a special session of the GA to reconsider future of Palestine.
  • May 13 - Jaffa arab thugs got their asses kicked by hagana.
  • May 14 - Declaration of Independence. The US recognized Israel de facto.
  • May 14 - The British mandate ended. Arab armies invaded Israel.
  • May 17 - The USSR recognized Israel.
  • May 19 - Jerusalem cut off by arabs.
  • May 1948 - July 1949 - War.

"Funny, palstanians didn't exist then, of course." Palstanians did not exist, of course. Never actually heard of these people.

How so? They claim to be there from time immemorial, or for eons, or whatever, of course!

Palestinians, however, had existed at least since the early 1920's when the Palestine Arab Congress were formed and sent the first Palestinian Arab Delegations to conferences with the British in London.

That is Arabs, A-RABS!

Your chronology is balderdash. Jew thugs began planning ethnic cleansing in 1895:
" "We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our own country... expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly. Theodor Herzl"

procuring employment!!! Very much humane, indeed! Not like arabs, of course.

and was completed through the successful execution of Plan Dalet in 1948.

Maybe, Plan Majestic 12? Since, according to Benny Morris, There was no Zionist "plan" or blanket policy of evicting the Arab population, or of "ethnic cleansing"., of course.

What really happened: "One example of this second phase was the expulsion of Arabs living in Lydda (present-day Lod) and Ramleh. On 12 July 1948, within the framework of Operation Dani, a skirmish with Jordanian armoured forces served as a pretext for a violent backlash, with 250 killed, some of whom were unarmed prisoners. This was followed by a forced evacuation characterised by summary executions and looting and involving upwards of 70,000 Palestinian civilians - almost 10% of the total exodus of 1947- 49. Similar scenarios were enacted, as Morris shows, in central Galilee, Upper Galilee and the northern Negev, as well as in the post-war expulsion of the Palestinians of Al Majdal (Ashkelon). Most of these operations (with the exception of the latter) were marked by atrocities - a fact which led Aharon Zisling, the minister of agriculture, to tell the Israeli cabinet on 17 November 1948: “I couldn’t sleep all night. I felt that things that were going on were hurting my soul, the soul of my family and all of us here (...) Now Jews too have behaved like Nazis and my entire being has been shaken (10).”The expulsion of the Palestinians re-examined - Le Monde diplomatique

Funny, Le Monde Antisemitique of 1997 quotes Morris. Here's some Morris then "There was no Zionist "plan" or blanket policy of evicting the Arab population, or of "ethnic cleansing". Plan Dalet (Plan D), of March 10th, 1948 (it is open and available for all to read in the IDF Archive and in various publications), was the master plan of the Haganah - the Jewish military force that became the Israel Defence Forces (IDF) - to counter the expected pan-Arab assault on the emergent Jewish state. That's what it explicitly states and that's what it was. And the invasion of the armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Iraq duly occurred, on May 15th.
It is true that Plan D gave the regional commanders carte blanche to occupy and garrison or expel and destroy the Arab villages along and behind the front lines and the anticipated Arab armies' invasion routes. And it is also true that mid-way in the 1948 war the Israeli leaders decided to bar the return of the "refugees" (those "refugees" who had just assaulted the Jewish community), viewing them as a potential fifth column and threat to the Jewish state's existence. I for one cannot fault their fears or logic."
Kewl.

Thanks for giving me the opening:

More like a "closing".

"Benny Morris contrives to make two seemingly contradictory statements within two pages of each other, namely that “Plan D was not a political blueprint for the expulsion of Palestine’s Arabs” and that “from the beginning of April, there are clear traces of an expulsion policy on both national and local levels”.....Already from 1937 we find Ben Gurion (and most of the other Zionist leaders) supporting a ’transfer’ solution to the ’Arab problem’ (...) Come 1948, and the confusions and deplacement of war, and we see Ben Gurion quickly grasp the opportunity for ’Judaising’ the emergent Jewish State” ("1948 and After..., p. 33).The expulsion of the Palestinians re-examined - Le Monde diplomatique

Not a single arab called himself a "palestinian" until 1967, when they underwent a total recall procedure with the soviet PR campaign of the USSR Oriental Studies Institute. Le Monde Radotagique has to get serious to be taken seriously, of course.

 

[toastman]

No, until the first shot is fired, there is no war.


Helms was awakened at 3:00 in the morning on 5 June by a call from the CIA Operations Center. The Foreign Broadcast Information Service had picked up reports that Israel had launched its attack. (OCI soon concluded that the Israelis— contrary to their claims—had fired first.)

CIA Analysis of the 1967 Arab-Israeli War Central Intelligence Agency

There is PLENTY of information that has already been posted that proves Egypt was going to attack Israel. The problem is you ignore it . Israel was well in her right to pre emptively strike Egypt.
Your first comment is extremly idiotic BTW.

Talk about idiotic and not doing one's homework. Can you for once spout something other than Zionist propaganda?

"the CIA assessed that Nasser’s military presence in the Sinai was defensive, stating that “Armored striking forces could breach the UAR’s double defense line in the Sinai in three to four days and drive the Egyptians west of the Suez Canal in seven to nine days. Israel could contain any attacks by Syria or Jordan during this period”

"Yitzhak Rabin, who would later become Prime Minister, told Le Monde the year following the ’67 war, “I do not think Nasser wanted war. The two divisions which he sent to the Sinai, on May 14, would not have been sufficient to start an offensive against Israel. He knew it and we knew it.”

Israel s attack on Egypt in June 67 was not preemptive - Foreign Policy Journal

Propaganda spewing idiot, that quote is fake first of all. Second, the troops massed against the border was only one thing Egypt did. Right before the war started, Egypt kicked out all of the peacekeeping forced by the border that were put there the last time the two countries fought in order to keep the peace. Then there were the open threats if annihalating Israel .
You are nothing but a liar Monti and your posts should not be taken seriously.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

It gets far worse than that. Those Zionists in Israel even provoke the noble life loving, peace loving Palestinians into hatred, rage & violence with peace offerings, a security fence & land concesions so they can remain in Israel. Face it you Zionists, not once has Israel even tried to find a way to free the Palestinians back to their indigenous homelands.

I'm still mad at the Zionist European colonialists for leaving all those state of the art greenhouses in Gaza when they pulled out the last Jew living there.

Some of our brave freedom fighters might have cut themselves as they smashed them to pieces! How dare the evil Zionists be so inconsiderate!

 

[MJB12741]

It gets far worse than that. Those Zionists in Israel even provoke the noble life loving, peace loving Palestinians into hatred, rage & violence with peace offerings, a security fence & land concesions so they can remain in Israel. Face it you Zionists, not once has Israel even tried to find a way to free the Palestinians back to their indigenous homelands.

I'm still mad at the Zionist European colonialists for leaving all those state of the art greenhouses in Gaza when they pulled out the last Jew living there.

Some of our brave freedom fighters might have cut themselves as they smashed them to pieces! How dare the evil Zionists be so inconsiderate!

When Israel granted their request for a Jew free Gaza, not only did the Palestinians destroy the greenhouses which could have provided immediate employment & revenue for Palestinians, they also leveled the remaining synagogues which could have provided immidiate housing or been converted into mosques. Palestinians are not exactly among the brightest of life forms on this earth, are they?

 

[Penelope]

It gets far worse than that. Those Zionists in Israel even provoke the noble life loving, peace loving Palestinians into hatred, rage & violence with peace offerings, a security fence & land concesions so they can remain in Israel. Face it you Zionists, not once has Israel even tried to find a way to free the Palestinians back to their indigenous homelands.

I'm still mad at the Zionist European colonialists for leaving all those state of the art greenhouses in Gaza when they pulled out the last Jew living there.

Some of our brave freedom fighters might have cut themselves as they smashed them to pieces! How dare the evil Zionists be so inconsiderate!

When Israel granted their request for a Jew free Gaza, not only did the Palestinians destroy the greenhouses which could have provided immediate employment & revenue for Palestinians, they also leveled the remaining synagogues which could have provided immidiate housing or been converted into mosques. Palestinians are not exactly among the brightest of life forms on this earth, are they?

and the other side of the story for those interested:
The Greenhouse propaganda How Gazan history is being rewritten to dehumanize Palestinians 8211 Mondoweiss