Would Israel exist today without the holoccaust? And moreover...

[Lipush]

And let's not forget...

Did you know that this is absolute bullshit?

My father, son of survivors, never saw a penny, nither did my uncle.

But who cares for facts when you can make stuff up.?

 

[Lipush]

And let's not forget...

Wow...I didn't know that...

Maybe because it isn't true. My dad only got $100/month and no medical benefits, which was cut off immediately after his death. My siblings and I get no benefits, and neither does my mom who, while being a refugee, was never in the camps.

This guy cares for facts like I care what prince George had for breakfast today.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Why is it that the Palestinians have to suffer the consequences of the nazi atrocities?

Let's face facts. There would be no Israel without the holocaust. The world never would have went for it. Beyond that, because the Jews suffered atrocities at the hands of some Germans in the 1940s, the Palestinians, miles away from any of those atrocities need to suffer the consequences in the present day?

How can anyone in their right mind believe that?

Why is it that the Palestinians have to suffer the consequences of the nazi atrocities?

They should move to Syria. No Nazis there.

Why should the Palestinians leave their native land? Haven't the invading Jews thrown enough of the Muslims and Christians out?

Why should the Palestinians leave their native land?

Muslims left their native land when they started invading all their neighbors.
Time to reverse that flow for good. Send them all to Syria. If they want to walk to
Saudi Arabia from there.....I'll chip in for some comfortable shoes.

 

[montelatici]

Why is it that the Palestinians have to suffer the consequences of the nazi atrocities?

Let's face facts. There would be no Israel without the holocaust. The world never would have went for it. Beyond that, because the Jews suffered atrocities at the hands of some Germans in the 1940s, the Palestinians, miles away from any of those atrocities need to suffer the consequences in the present day?

How can anyone in their right mind believe that?

Why is it that the Palestinians have to suffer the consequences of the nazi atrocities?

They should move to Syria. No Nazis there.

Why should the Palestinians leave their native land? Haven't the invading Jews thrown enough of the Muslims and Christians out?

Why should the Palestinians leave their native land?

Muslims left their native land when they started invading all their neighbors.
Time to reverse that flow for good. Send them all to Syria. If they want to walk to
Saudi Arabia from there.....I'll chip in for some comfortable shoes.

The Muslims in Palestine converted to Islam from Christianity (some remained Christian of course), they are not Arabians (they are Arabic speaking people, hence Arabs), they are the native and indigenous people of the area many of whose ancestors practiced Judaism before most they were obliged to convert to Christianity under Roman law.

"Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted to Christianity, and later Islam, not Arab in origin"

In Palestine the "small" number of Arab invaders who had been imported by the Arabian conquerors were wiped out by disease. Thus the "myth" of the "Palestinian Arab" descending "from the Arab conquerors" appears to be factually incorrect for all but perhaps a few."

Native Population almost wholly descended from Jews who had been forcibly converted

 

[louie888]

The holocaust industry and those numbers are real.

From an honest Jew who gets berated as a Jew hater while being a well respected professor...

The Holocaust Industry: Reflections on the Exploitation of Jewish Suffering: Norman G. Finkelstein: 9781859843239: Amazon.com: Books

 

[Hollie]

The holocaust industry and those numbers are real.

From an honest Jew who gets berated as a Jew hater while being a well respected professor...

The Holocaust Industry: Reflections on the Exploitation of Jewish Suffering: Norman G. Finkelstein: 9781859843239: Amazon.com: Books

It seems Norman is the type exploiting what he calls Jewish suffering.

He wrote a book hoping to make a few bucks on that very topic.

 

[louie888]

I'm just curious. Now that we have seen how the zionists collaborated with the nazis to steal Palestine and then exploited the same Jewish suffering that they share with the nazis so much guilt in causing, has this changed anyone's perspective... even a tad?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I'm just curious. Now that we have seen how the zionists collaborated with the nazis to steal Palestine and then exploited the same Jewish suffering that they share with the nazis so much guilt in causing, has this changed anyone's perspective... even a tad?

When did Nazis steal Palestine? Who did they steal it from?

 

[fanger]

Yehuda Bauer, an Israeli Holocaust scholar who chairs the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance, said he warned his friend Wiesenthal, who died in 2005, about spreading the false notion that the Holocaust claimed 11 million victims – 6 million Jews and 5 million non-Jews.


Yehuda Bauer (Thonke/Ullstein bild via Getty Images/JTA)

“I said to him, ‘Simon, you are telling a lie,’” Bauer recalled in an interview Tuesday. “He said, ‘Sometimes you need to do that to get the results for things you think are essential.’”

Bauer and other historians who knew Wiesenthal said the Nazi hunter told them that he chose the 5 million number carefully: He wanted a number large enough to attract the attention of non-Jews who might not otherwise care about Jewish suffering, but not larger than the actual number of Jews who were murdered in the Holocaust, 6 million.

It caught on: President Jimmy Carter, issuing the executive order that would establish the US Holocaust Memorial Museum, referred to the “11 million victims of the Holocaust.”

Deborah Lipstadt, a professor of Holocaust studies at Emory University in Atlanta, wrote in 2011 how the number continues to dog her efforts to teach about the Holocaust.

“I have been to many Yom Hashoah observances — including those sponsored by synagogues and Jewish communities — where eleven candles were lit,” she wrote in an article in the Jewish Review of Books in which she lacerated Wiesenthal’s ethical standards. “When I tell the organizers that they are engaged in historical revisionism, their reactions range from skepticism to outrage. Strangers have taken me to task in angry letters for focusing ‘only’ on Jewish deaths and ignoring the five million others. When I explain that this number is simply inaccurate, in fact made up, they become even more convinced of my ethnocentrism and inability to feel the pain of anyone but my own people.”

The problem, according to Bauer, who has debunked the number repeatedly in his writings over the decades, is not that non-Jews were not victims; they were. It is that Wiesenthal’s arbitrarily chosen tally of non-Jewish victims diminishes the centrality to the Nazi ideology of systematically wiping any trace of the Jewish people from the planet.

In fact, he said, the term “genocide” could accurately be applied to the 2 million to 3 million Poles murdered and millions more enslaved by the Nazis. But the mass murder of the Poles, Roma and others should not come under the rubric “Holocaust,” a term that Holocaust historians generally dislike because of its religious connotations but nonetheless have accepted as describing only the annihilation that the Nazis hoped to visit on the Jews.

“All Jews of the world had to be annihilated,” Bauer said. “That was the intent. There was never an idea in Nazi minds to murder all the Russians.”

The number 5 million also adheres to no known understanding of the number of non-Jews killed by the Nazis: While as many as 35 million people were killed overall because of Nazi aggression, the number of non-Jews who died in the concentration camps is no more than half a million, Bauer said.

‘Remember the 11 million’? Why an inflated victims tally irks Holocaust historians

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Yehuda Bauer, an Israeli Holocaust scholar who chairs the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance, said he warned his friend Wiesenthal, who died in 2005, about spreading the false notion that the Holocaust claimed 11 million victims – 6 million Jews and 5 million non-Jews.


Yehuda Bauer (Thonke/Ullstein bild via Getty Images/JTA)

“I said to him, ‘Simon, you are telling a lie,’” Bauer recalled in an interview Tuesday. “He said, ‘Sometimes you need to do that to get the results for things you think are essential.’”

Bauer and other historians who knew Wiesenthal said the Nazi hunter told them that he chose the 5 million number carefully: He wanted a number large enough to attract the attention of non-Jews who might not otherwise care about Jewish suffering, but not larger than the actual number of Jews who were murdered in the Holocaust, 6 million.

It caught on: President Jimmy Carter, issuing the executive order that would establish the US Holocaust Memorial Museum, referred to the “11 million victims of the Holocaust.”

Deborah Lipstadt, a professor of Holocaust studies at Emory University in Atlanta, wrote in 2011 how the number continues to dog her efforts to teach about the Holocaust.

“I have been to many Yom Hashoah observances — including those sponsored by synagogues and Jewish communities — where eleven candles were lit,” she wrote in an article in the Jewish Review of Books in which she lacerated Wiesenthal’s ethical standards. “When I tell the organizers that they are engaged in historical revisionism, their reactions range from skepticism to outrage. Strangers have taken me to task in angry letters for focusing ‘only’ on Jewish deaths and ignoring the five million others. When I explain that this number is simply inaccurate, in fact made up, they become even more convinced of my ethnocentrism and inability to feel the pain of anyone but my own people.”

The problem, according to Bauer, who has debunked the number repeatedly in his writings over the decades, is not that non-Jews were not victims; they were. It is that Wiesenthal’s arbitrarily chosen tally of non-Jewish victims diminishes the centrality to the Nazi ideology of systematically wiping any trace of the Jewish people from the planet.

In fact, he said, the term “genocide” could accurately be applied to the 2 million to 3 million Poles murdered and millions more enslaved by the Nazis. But the mass murder of the Poles, Roma and others should not come under the rubric “Holocaust,” a term that Holocaust historians generally dislike because of its religious connotations but nonetheless have accepted as describing only the annihilation that the Nazis hoped to visit on the Jews.

“All Jews of the world had to be annihilated,” Bauer said. “That was the intent. There was never an idea in Nazi minds to murder all the Russians.”

The number 5 million also adheres to no known understanding of the number of non-Jews killed by the Nazis: While as many as 35 million people were killed overall because of Nazi aggression, the number of non-Jews who died in the concentration camps is no more than half a million, Bauer said.

‘Remember the 11 million’? Why an inflated victims tally irks Holocaust historians

Wow, now you're even denying the non-Jewish victims? There were a half-million Roma (Gypsy) victims alone. Disabled ppl, homosexuals, political dissidents, J Witnesses, and Russian POW's. After examining the numbers, I personally believe there were 7 million non-Jews and 5 million Jews who perished in the camps. But I guess because of just one phoney on Oprah, all those ppl died in vain.

 

[fanger]

Read the Times of Israel article, I didn't deny anything, but there again I didn't invent anything either

 

[teddyearp]

I'm just curious. Now that we have seen how the zionists collaborated with the nazis to steal Palestine and then exploited the same Jewish suffering that they share with the nazis so much guilt in causing, has this changed anyone's perspective... even a tad?

I'm just curious as well. How do you figure that the 'fringe' evidence you have to now to be considered the truth by this board?

When you say, "the Zionists collaborated with the Nazi's to steal Palestine", etc., you infer that it was all of that movement, when in actuality, it was only a very very very small portion.

Poof, another feather gone with the wind . . . .

 

[P F Tinmore]

I'm just curious. Now that we have seen how the zionists collaborated with the nazis to steal Palestine and then exploited the same Jewish suffering that they share with the nazis so much guilt in causing, has this changed anyone's perspective... even a tad?

I'm just curious as well. How do you figure that the 'fringe' evidence you have to now to be considered the truth by this board?

When you say, "the Zionists collaborated with the Nazi's to steal Palestine", etc., you infer that it was all of that movement, when in actuality, it was only a very very very small portion.

Poof, another feather gone with the wind . . . .

Still more than that one Palestinian.

 

[louie888]

...Did you know that this is absolute bullshit?

My father, son of survivors, never saw a penny, nither did my uncle.

But who cares for facts when you can make stuff up.?

Maybe, maybe not as you lie constantly here, but if true, this is how Finklestein explains it on page 167 his book posted above...

...the pretexts invoked by the Holocaust industry to force a non-recoupable settlement on the Swiss banks were false, and that few actual survivors of the Nazi holocaust will directly - or, for that matter, indirectly benefit from the Swiss monies. A comparable analysis of other Holocaust industry settlements would presumably yield comparable results. Indeed, buried in the details of the Gribetz Plan is a nest egg for the Holocaust industry. Most of the Swiss monies probably won't be distributed until after all but a handful of survivors are dead.

With the survivors gone, the monies will pour into the coffers of Jewish organizations. Small wonder that the Holocaust industry was unanimous in its praise of the Gribetz Plan.

 

[Lipush]

I don't believe the book and I don't believe you.

 

[louie888]

I don't believe the book and I don't believe you.

On November 22, 2000, Judge Edward R. Korman announced a settlement of this case with his approval of a plan featuring the payment of $1.25 billion into funds controlled by the Israeli Banking Trust. Judah Gribetz was appointed Special Master to administer the plan, which is sometimes called the Gribetz Plan after its chief author.[12]

World Jewish Congress lawsuit against Swiss banks - Wikipedia

 

[Lipush]

Yawn.

 

[louie888]

It turns out that artists have had a field day with this topic:

 

[louie888]

There's more, from page 151...

In late August 2000 the World Jewish Congress (WJC) announced that it stood to amass fully $9 billion in Holocaust compensation monies. They were extracted in the name of "needy Holocaust victims" but the WJC now maintained that the monies belonged to the "Jewish people as a whole" (WJC executive director, Elan Steinberg). Conveniently, the WJC is the self-anointed representative of the "Jewish people as a whole." Meanwhile, a black-tie Holocaust reparations banquet sponsored by WJC president Edgar Bronfman at New York's Pierre Hotel celebrated the creation of a "Foundation of the Jewish People" to subsidize Jewish organizations and "Holocaust education." (One Jewish critic of the "Holocaust-themed dinner" conjured this scenario: "Mass murder. Horrible plunder. Slave labor. Let's eat.") The Foundation's endowment would come from "residual" Holocaust compensation monies amounting to "probably billions of dollars" (Steinberg). How the WJC already knew that "probably billions" would be left over when none of the compensation monies had yet been distributed to Holocaust victims was anyone's guess. Indeed, it was not yet even known how many would qualify. Or, did the Holocaust industry extract compensation monies in the name of "needy Holocaust victims" knowing all along that "probably billions" would be left over? The Holocaust industry bitterly complained that the German and Swiss settlements allotted only meager sums for survivors. It is unclear why the "probably billions" couldn't be used to supplement these allocations.

 

[P F Tinmore]

...Did you know that this is absolute bullshit?

My father, son of survivors, never saw a penny, nither did my uncle.

But who cares for facts when you can make stuff up.?

Maybe, maybe not as you lie constantly here, but if true, this is how Finklestein explains it on page 167 his book posted above...

...the pretexts invoked by the Holocaust industry to force a non-recoupable settlement on the Swiss banks were false, and that few actual survivors of the Nazi holocaust will directly - or, for that matter, indirectly benefit from the Swiss monies. A comparable analysis of other Holocaust industry settlements would presumably yield comparable results. Indeed, buried in the details of the Gribetz Plan is a nest egg for the Holocaust industry. Most of the Swiss monies probably won't be distributed until after all but a handful of survivors are dead.

With the survivors gone, the monies will pour into the coffers of Jewish organizations. Small wonder that the Holocaust industry was unanimous in its praise of the Gribetz Plan.

The Holocaust Industry - Interview with Norman Finkelstein (2002)