Why the NFL and ESPN are pushing society further right, you are apolitical or you aren't..

[jwoodie]

It is destructive to try and turn the focus on the flag or to call kneelers unpatriotic.

The kneelers are the ones who disrespected our flag and anthem for their own political purposes and yes, they are unpatriotic for doing so. Their destructive actions are no different than burning the flag, and they deserved to be called out for doing so.

 

[Slade3200]

It is destructive to try and turn the focus on the flag or to call kneelers unpatriotic.

The kneelers are the ones who disrespected our flag and anthem for their own political purposes and yes, they are unpatriotic for doing so. Their destructive actions are no different than burning the flag, and they deserved to be called out for doing so.

You reenforce my point. Thank you. Now go chase the next shiny object please, you obviously have no intent of having a productive conversation about this.

 

[jwoodie]

You reenforce my point. Thank you. Now go chase the next shiny object please, you obviously have no intent of having a productive conversation about this.

1. What, exactly, IS your point? Can you explain it in less than three paragraphs?

2. Your deflection to juvenile metaphors is pathetic.

3. How do you define a "productive conversation" other than approbation by your fellow sychophants?

 

[PredFan]

Not really. The left is poisoning the sport with politics. The right is not.

A sport is a sport. Its a game. There has always been politics injected into it as some level from both sides. Ever notice the flag that covers the entire field? The F-16 fly overs, The national Anthem, Military solutes? All great things in my opinion but also political in nature. It comes from both sides. We have always had statements, protests, hold outs, and expression from people with a spotlight in every industry. Don't sit there pointing your finger at the "Left" while smelling you own shit and proclaiming that it smells yummy. Its disingenuous.

They are patriotic, not political.

Keep telling yourself that bub

It's true whether you approve or not.

The truth is that it is patriotic AND political

That's a stretch.

 

[Slade3200]

You reenforce my point. Thank you. Now go chase the next shiny object please, you obviously have no intent of having a productive conversation about this.

1. What, exactly, IS your point? Can you explain it in less than three paragraphs?

2. Your deflection to juvenile metaphors is pathetic.

3. How do you define a "productive conversation" other than approbation by your fellow sychophants?

1. What, exactly, IS your point? Can you explain it in less than three paragraphs?
My point was that people like you try and distract by avoiding discussions about the core subject and focusing on petty and divisive off subject attacks. This is exactly what you did in response to my statement, so you proved my point.

2. Your deflection to juvenile metaphors is pathetic.
What was I deflecting?

3. How do you define a "productive conversation" other than approbation by your fellow sychophants?
Productive conversation is one that focuses on real solutions. One that reflects an effort to listen and understand both sides and then present productive criticisms and/or ideas to help progress towards solutions.

 

[Slade3200]

A sport is a sport. Its a game. There has always been politics injected into it as some level from both sides. Ever notice the flag that covers the entire field? The F-16 fly overs, The national Anthem, Military solutes? All great things in my opinion but also political in nature. It comes from both sides. We have always had statements, protests, hold outs, and expression from people with a spotlight in every industry. Don't sit there pointing your finger at the "Left" while smelling you own shit and proclaiming that it smells yummy. Its disingenuous.

They are patriotic, not political.

Keep telling yourself that bub

It's true whether you approve or not.

The truth is that it is patriotic AND political

That's a stretch.

It is not a stretch at all. It is absolutely a political issue about how we use our military. There are many people who do not believe in war, our presence in other countries, the size of our military or the amount of money we spend every year on our military. When the Military makes a deal with the NFL in 2009 to stage military displays before and during games in an effort to market and recruit then it absolutely brings politics into sports. Between 2010 and 2013 the DOD spent 53 million of tax payers money on sports marketing contracts with professional teams.

I personally don't mind it as I respect our military and love standing for the anthem before games, i love it when the fighter jets fly over, and I love seeing our vets being recognized... But lets at least try to be honest about this conversation.

 

[bodecea]

You see, I think what bothers people the most is the clear double standard. This is not addressed enough by the media and I'm guessing it a major reason why people are upset and will become more patriotic, not less. Less supportive of these actions, not more supportive.

At ESPN, you have former hosts who are fired for their political views. Some well known like Schilling, then you have another host who shares their own political views, in a very dishonest and vulgar manner and she keeps her job. Double standard? Of course.

The NFL does not allow the Cowboys to wear a decal in support of the seven fallen Texas police officers who died, protecting the right of left wing protests by the way. Killed be an alt-left racist. They are told they cannot wear the decal because it is a political expression. However, kneeling for the anthem and disrespecting the flag in front of soldiers who have lost their limbs in some cases, well, that's a reasonable political expression.

You decide that as a company you are apolitical or you aren't. Since they have shown they are political, they can expect a backlash and a loss of interest for those who aren't political or who share a different political view. So, it will cost both companies, no question.

There is simply no ducking this fact, and I believe it will push many in society further right who view these subversive expressions as harming the United States. I am certainly one who would support the protesting and constructive discussion of police brutality and state abuses, I have experienced them first hand myself; but this is not the method nor the forum to do so. It's a sporting event. You are hurting your own cause, no matter what NBC and CNN tell you.

You make fair points and I think many people agree with your point of view. If I can push back a bit... I’d dare to say a majority of Americans generally support efforts that stand up to bigotry towards minority/oppressed groups, whether that be race, religion, women or the LGBT.

It is always going to be more socially acceptable to express hatred against bigots that it is to express hatred as a bigot.

You are right that this shouldn’t spill over to politics as being a conservative or on the Right does not make one a bigot and they too often get labeled as such. On the flip side, the right needs to be more honest about how they engage about this conversation as well.

The NFL goes through tremendous effort to support the troops. They have a whole month where all the players wear camo with their uniforms to express such support. The players who take a knee during the anthem are not trying to disrespect the troops. They are trying to raise awareness for a cause. I understand the controversy and wish they had a chosen a better way to make their statement, but as you can see, they got all of our attention.

They biggest wedge pushing people to the right and to the left is this polarized demonizing and dishonest way we conduct our conversations. We’ve lost the ability to speak with honesty and respect and we no longer try to see the other sides point of view. This is one of the biggest issues I have with our leader as he leads the charge with his divisive rhetoric and childish/bullish ways that he conducts himself with... he pours gas on the fires that he should be putting out and seems completely uninterested in unifying the country.

I pretty much agree with the OP and you're reply seemed pretty reasonable, but you included this.

The players who take a knee during the anthem are not trying to disrespect the troops.

Those who are offended by the fact that they ARE disrespecting not only the troops, but those who have served, bled, and died for this nation and are aware that there is offense being given, don't seem to care.. When this was first pointed out, we were attacked, called names, ridiculed, and subjected to pretty much an entire spectrum of vitriol for daring to point it out. This is why the left has been losing elections for the past 10+ years and why they have become marginalized.

What made it unbearable was that the NFL has, in the past, taken strong stands against players for violating an ethic code; including fining people. When it was reasonably suggested that the players and the NFL find a better way to bring attention to this issue, we were, you guessed it, subjected to more nasty attacks AND the NFL decided to double down on their stupidity.

This has been the case now for over a decade. Question something on the left and we get this avalanche of raw hatred.

Now, I no longer care about the NFL or the players or their cause. No one is listening to what they perceive as injustice, and they certainly are not listening to the information that shows that their 'feelings' are at best, misguided and their facts are wrong or cherry picked. It is the players and the NFL that has done more damage to their message than any number of statements from the right.

So now I have already begun to boycott the NFL and its sponsors. I have started a media campaign on social media with My own money to get attention to the NFL games reduced to the point where it damages them financially. I intend to take the same campaign to sponsors of the NFL, and I'll also begin targeting those who invest to sell their stock in the NFL, and any company that endorses or sponsors any of the members of the NFL who are taking a knee for the purpose of supporting anthem protesters.

No, they are not disrespecting the troops. Those on the Right are trying to USE the troops as a tool to try to shame the protestors.....rather than trying to honestly address the problems with law enforcement they are shining a light on.

 

[bodecea]

You pointed your finger at me instead of addressing my statement. I posed a pretty detailed argument about specific issues and you responded with a petty unfounded insult, saying I lost the ability to speak honestly, and then posed 4 questions. Thats not a substantive way to engage in a discussion.

No, I did not point a finger at you; I merely parodied your statement that "We've lost the ability to speak honestly." You may have lost that ability, but I have not.

However, thank you for (finally) answering my questions. I believe that this "kneeling" activity is merely the latest iteration of the anti-Trump movement, which has now painted itself into an anti-American corner from which they may never escape. Crying Wolf only lasts so long, and the public is waking up to this charade.

Kneeling has been going on for over a year now....how can you call it an anti-trump movement?

 

[bodecea]

The dishonesty coming from Trump is in his "branding" game that he has played his whole life. He is taking the "Patriotic" "Pro-military" stance on this argument trying to brand the protestors as anti-american. You obviously like the taste of that Kool-aid, as many others do as well.

Trump is a master negotiator who is becoming a master politician. His "branding" pales in comparison with the "racist" label that has been used by the Left for decades. As for disrespecting our flag and national anthem, what could be more anti-American? These protesters have branded themselves more than anything Trump has done.

"As for disrespecting our flag and national anthem, what could be more anti-American?" DIsrespecting our Constitution and Bill of Rights and our freedoms to peacefully protest.....for a couple.

 

[bodecea]

Liberals will always tell you who they are...

Are you trying to pass that post-TD "celebration" off as an Anthem protest again?

 

[bodecea]

Let me ask you something. Why was Jerry Jones, Trump supporter and owner of the Dallas Cowboys, down on one knee with arms locked with his team last night?

Because his team is 70% black and he doesn't want a walkout.

So, he sells out his patriotic principles, in your opinion?

 

[BluesLegend]

Liberals will always tell you who they are...

Are you trying to pass that post-TD "celebration" off as an Anthem protest again?

Its a Trump protest, you know that already.

 

[bodecea]

Liberals will always tell you who they are...

Are you trying to pass that post-TD "celebration" off as an Anthem protest again?

Its a Trump protest, you know that already.

Keep up, son. We're talking about Nat'l Anthem protests.

 

[Darkwind]

You see, I think what bothers people the most is the clear double standard. This is not addressed enough by the media and I'm guessing it a major reason why people are upset and will become more patriotic, not less. Less supportive of these actions, not more supportive.

At ESPN, you have former hosts who are fired for their political views. Some well known like Schilling, then you have another host who shares their own political views, in a very dishonest and vulgar manner and she keeps her job. Double standard? Of course.

The NFL does not allow the Cowboys to wear a decal in support of the seven fallen Texas police officers who died, protecting the right of left wing protests by the way. Killed be an alt-left racist. They are told they cannot wear the decal because it is a political expression. However, kneeling for the anthem and disrespecting the flag in front of soldiers who have lost their limbs in some cases, well, that's a reasonable political expression.

You decide that as a company you are apolitical or you aren't. Since they have shown they are political, they can expect a backlash and a loss of interest for those who aren't political or who share a different political view. So, it will cost both companies, no question.

There is simply no ducking this fact, and I believe it will push many in society further right who view these subversive expressions as harming the United States. I am certainly one who would support the protesting and constructive discussion of police brutality and state abuses, I have experienced them first hand myself; but this is not the method nor the forum to do so. It's a sporting event. You are hurting your own cause, no matter what NBC and CNN tell you.

You make fair points and I think many people agree with your point of view. If I can push back a bit... I’d dare to say a majority of Americans generally support efforts that stand up to bigotry towards minority/oppressed groups, whether that be race, religion, women or the LGBT.

It is always going to be more socially acceptable to express hatred against bigots that it is to express hatred as a bigot.

You are right that this shouldn’t spill over to politics as being a conservative or on the Right does not make one a bigot and they too often get labeled as such. On the flip side, the right needs to be more honest about how they engage about this conversation as well.

The NFL goes through tremendous effort to support the troops. They have a whole month where all the players wear camo with their uniforms to express such support. The players who take a knee during the anthem are not trying to disrespect the troops. They are trying to raise awareness for a cause. I understand the controversy and wish they had a chosen a better way to make their statement, but as you can see, they got all of our attention.

They biggest wedge pushing people to the right and to the left is this polarized demonizing and dishonest way we conduct our conversations. We’ve lost the ability to speak with honesty and respect and we no longer try to see the other sides point of view. This is one of the biggest issues I have with our leader as he leads the charge with his divisive rhetoric and childish/bullish ways that he conducts himself with... he pours gas on the fires that he should be putting out and seems completely uninterested in unifying the country.

I pretty much agree with the OP and you're reply seemed pretty reasonable, but you included this.

The players who take a knee during the anthem are not trying to disrespect the troops.

Those who are offended by the fact that they ARE disrespecting not only the troops, but those who have served, bled, and died for this nation and are aware that there is offense being given, don't seem to care.. When this was first pointed out, we were attacked, called names, ridiculed, and subjected to pretty much an entire spectrum of vitriol for daring to point it out. This is why the left has been losing elections for the past 10+ years and why they have become marginalized.

What made it unbearable was that the NFL has, in the past, taken strong stands against players for violating an ethic code; including fining people. When it was reasonably suggested that the players and the NFL find a better way to bring attention to this issue, we were, you guessed it, subjected to more nasty attacks AND the NFL decided to double down on their stupidity.

This has been the case now for over a decade. Question something on the left and we get this avalanche of raw hatred.

Now, I no longer care about the NFL or the players or their cause. No one is listening to what they perceive as injustice, and they certainly are not listening to the information that shows that their 'feelings' are at best, misguided and their facts are wrong or cherry picked. It is the players and the NFL that has done more damage to their message than any number of statements from the right.

So now I have already begun to boycott the NFL and its sponsors. I have started a media campaign on social media with My own money to get attention to the NFL games reduced to the point where it damages them financially. I intend to take the same campaign to sponsors of the NFL, and I'll also begin targeting those who invest to sell their stock in the NFL, and any company that endorses or sponsors any of the members of the NFL who are taking a knee for the purpose of supporting anthem protesters.

No, they are not disrespecting the troops. Those on the Right are trying to USE the troops as a tool to try to shame the protestors.....rather than trying to honestly address the problems with law enforcement they are shining a light on.

The who are upset about the disrespect to flag and anthem were upset long before the troops even came into the discussion. So that is a lie, right there.

They ARE disrespecting everything that the flag stands for and the people who have sacrificed for America. There simply is no way around that.

 

[jwoodie]

Let me ask you something. Why was Jerry Jones, Trump supporter and owner of the Dallas Cowboys, down on one knee with arms locked with his team last night?

Because his team is 70% black and he doesn't want a walkout.

So, he sells out his patriotic principles, in your opinion?

No, he did not kneel during the anthem.

 

[jwoodie]

Keep up, son. We're talking about Nat'l Anthem protests.

Slade, are you listening?

 

[Serioususername]

The who are upset about the disrespect to flag and anthem were upset long before the troops even came into the discussion. So that is a lie, right there.

They ARE disrespecting everything that the flag stands for and the people who have sacrificed for America. There simply is no way around that.

So, can you explain to me how you're disrespecting a symbol by exercising the very things it stands for? It's like saying you're disrespecting a car by driving it, or disrespecting a gun by shooting it. The rights symbolized by that flag aren't show pieces, to be talked about and looked at, but never used. Anyway, a Veteran is the one that told Kap' to start taking a knee, plenty of Veterans and Activity Duty support and acknowledge the right of this protest.

So quite frankly all you have is an Opinion, especially on this supposed disrespect for the troops, and unless you've served your opinion here is about as weighty as a collection of old toenails. That's besides the point though, the point is you have an opinion, not a fact, because even Troops are split, and I see this personally everyday.

 

[jwoodie]

Anyway, a Veteran is the one that told Kap' to start taking a knee

Major Hasan is a Veteran, too. So what?

 

[Darkwind]

The who are upset about the disrespect to flag and anthem were upset long before the troops even came into the discussion. So that is a lie, right there.

They ARE disrespecting everything that the flag stands for and the people who have sacrificed for America. There simply is no way around that.

So, can you explain to me how you're disrespecting a symbol by exercising the very things it stands for? It's like saying you're disrespecting a car by driving it, or disrespecting a gun by shooting it. The rights symbolized by that flag aren't show pieces, to be talked about and looked at, but never used. Anyway, a Veteran is the one that told Kap' to start taking a knee, plenty of Veterans and Activity Duty support and acknowledge the right of this protest.

So quite frankly all you have is an Opinion, especially on this supposed disrespect for the troops, and unless you've served your opinion here is about as weighty as a collection of old toenails. That's besides the point though, the point is you have an opinion, not a fact, because even Troops are split, and I see this personally everyday.

That is a strawman argument meant to defelct from what is being said.

No one is telling them they cannot exercise their freedoms.

They are disrespecting the Anthem and the flag and everything it stands for. I, and millions of others like Me, also have the right to protest and we are. Until such time as the NFL, which has banned political speech in the past, returns the game to a non-political event, then every American who finds this disresectful should boycott the NFL, any sponsors of the NFL, and sponsors of individual players, and any business that promotes NFL gear, or shows NFL games.

Have a nice night.

 

[bodecea]

Let me ask you something. Why was Jerry Jones, Trump supporter and owner of the Dallas Cowboys, down on one knee with arms locked with his team last night?

Because his team is 70% black and he doesn't want a walkout.

So, he sells out his patriotic principles, in your opinion?

No, he did not kneel during the anthem.

That's right, he did not.