Why I'm voting Democrat Part 2: Romney's insult to cops/firemen

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Busc90 you should seriously think about a new screen name and not tell anyone its you, maybe Joe Starkey?

You have zero credibility, none. The days when you and Starkey could fool anyone are so long over that's its absurd you're still trying. It's the Internet equivalent of wooden teeth and buggy whips.

You're not gaining any follower, nobody takes you seriously, nobody pays any attention to you.

Be he a fraud or a sellout matters not. Both are despicable

 

[bucs90]

Vote republican OR ELSE!

Tow the line or YOU'RE A RINO!

Lockstep or GET TO STEPPING!

See the Tolerant right? ....Me neither

And I was one of the ones who always accused Democrats of that mindset. I recall Tea Party types bitching about why blacks would never change their mind and vote Dem. I suppose changing one's mind..............IF ONLY FOR ONE ELECTION CYCLE.....and plan to reasses afterwards.......is a sin against humanity.

so you think we should embrace your stupid ass for putting obama into a second term? really?

Nope. My lonely 1 vote wont do that. The funny thing is the last 2 days of posting, I haven't said one vulgar thing to a right winger. Not one curse word.

I've been met with "faggot, commie, socialist, retard, stupid ass" etc, etc, etc. Not very civil.

 

[Publius1787]

Wow. Ok. Give me 25 professions that do more good for society than cops and firemen? This should be a good read........

Their end goal is protect society. What is good for society? First you must have one. What does that consist of? Then you must protect it. What does that consist of? There is the individual. Then there is the family. Then there is the business or the farm. Then there is civil government/society. Then there is political government/society. In this case, the chicken did indeed come before the egg. For without the chicken there would be no egg. Read John Locke's Second Treatise and ask again your question. In a society founded on individual liberty the cops and firefighters are the necessary evil to defend individual liberty that fosters societal advancement. Therefore they are good for society. However, individual liberty itself is what’s best for society and the moment that police and firefighters, i.e. government “become destructive of these ends,” (whether violently or politically) is the moment they are a detriment to society.

Damn. So now cops and firemen are a "detriment to society"? Well shit, I hope they dont bother showing up if you dial 911 for something.

This is getting better by the minute. Im seeing I made the right choice.

None of this matters unless you want the federal government to look after your cops and your firefighters at my expense. Don’t ask me to bail out the pension/budgets of your public employees when it all falls apart. I certainly did not vote to extend the benefits of your public employees and I should not be on the hook for them when it falls apart. Build your liberal utopia Detroit, L.A., California, Chicago, San Bernardino. Just don't ask me to pay for it! I certainly wont ask you to pay for mine. Deal?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Wow. Ok. Give me 25 professions that do more good for society than cops and firemen? This should be a good read........

25? I don't have all day. I'll give you 5. If you still want more after that I'll think about it.

Level of cops' productivity is about 50k a year
Average Police Patrol Officer Salary Information plus Job, Career Education & Unemployment Help

In contrast, we have the following more productive people

1. CEO - The average CEO makes 729k a year. Over 14 TIMES as productive as the average cop.
Average Chief Executive Officer Salary Information plus Job, Career Education & Unemployment Help

2. Physicians - 3.5 times as productive as cops
Average Physician - Family Practice Salary Information plus Job, Career Education & Unemployment Help

3. Data management directors - 2.6 times as productive as cops
Average Data Management Director Salary Information plus Job, Career Education & Unemployment Help

4. Pipelines director - 2.24 times as productive as cops
Average Pipelines Manager Salary Information plus Job, Career Education & Unemployment Help

5. Chemical engineer 4 - 2 times as productive as cops
Average Chemical Engineer IV Salary Information plus Job, Career Education & Unemployment Help

HAHAHA!!! So epic. So you measure "productivity" in pure salary? Thats a hardcore right wing corporatist stereotype, but sure, whatever.

Sorry, but how else would you measure productivity - by feelings?

So.....by your logic.....LeBron James is more productive than all the above careers combined???

The free market seems to think so.

Wait, this gets better:

So Sean Penn, Rosie ODonnell and George Clooney, combined, are 10 times more productive for society than the entire US Marine Corp????

By your logic, yes, simply because they earn more money.

Is that the modern right wing's ideals?

Sorry are any of these people getting paid more than the market thinks they are worth? Nope. I'm sorry your envious that a small fraction of actors are actually productive enough to get paid well. (Although the vast majority of them are unproductive)

 

[WillowTree]

And I was one of the ones who always accused Democrats of that mindset. I recall Tea Party types bitching about why blacks would never change their mind and vote Dem. I suppose changing one's mind..............IF ONLY FOR ONE ELECTION CYCLE.....and plan to reasses afterwards.......is a sin against humanity.

so you think we should embrace your stupid ass for putting obama into a second term? really?

Nope. My lonely 1 vote wont do that. The funny thing is the last 2 days of posting, I haven't said one vulgar thing to a right winger. Not one curse word.

I've been met with "faggot, commie, socialist, retard, stupid ass" etc, etc, etc. Not very civil.

cry us a river, a vote for obama is a stupid vote, is that better?

 

[bucs90]

That's not how you were using love thy neighbor. You weren't offering to help. You were offering to love your neighbor by having the Feds use taxpayer money to help. That is an OWS parasite definition of love thy neighbor.

And I was not aware that states only had ground transportation to help with natural disasters. I really did not know that.

Um.......yeah, thats exactly what I meant. TAXPAYERS paid for our troops to go help out in Haiti. Should we instead have let that island just go straight to hell? Taxpayer money was used to help the Navy take aid to the tsunami victims. Should we say "Go buy a snorkel you losers, my tax money aint for yous to have!!!" No, we helped. If a state can't afford to keep firetrucks gassed to respond to calls, SHOULD WE HELP? Yes, we should.

And yes, most Fire Depts do not have aircraft. If they do, they sure wouldn't make it to Hawaii. Thats why Colorado had to turn to asking the Feds to use the military C17's, which seemed to thankfully get that awful fire under control out there.

Clearly, you have no idea what Jesus was admonishing when he said "thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself". He was definitely not referring to confiscating funds from one neighbor to help another neighbor so that you do not have to do anything yourself. The text simply says nothing towards taxation and expenditures, although that is how OWS parasites see it.

No. But he did speak of a duty to pay one's tax to the ruling authority, and the obey the ruling authority's laws as if they were from God.

And while it may not be in the Bible, I suspect Jesus would be ok with a ruling authority saying "We shall take our extra bread and carry it to the starving in the next village". Hey, call it verse Bucs90 1:1.

 

[bucs90]

25? I don't have all day. I'll give you 5. If you still want more after that I'll think about it.

Level of cops' productivity is about 50k a year
Average Police Patrol Officer Salary Information plus Job, Career Education & Unemployment Help

In contrast, we have the following more productive people

1. CEO - The average CEO makes 729k a year. Over 14 TIMES as productive as the average cop.
Average Chief Executive Officer Salary Information plus Job, Career Education & Unemployment Help

2. Physicians - 3.5 times as productive as cops
Average Physician - Family Practice Salary Information plus Job, Career Education & Unemployment Help

3. Data management directors - 2.6 times as productive as cops
Average Data Management Director Salary Information plus Job, Career Education & Unemployment Help

4. Pipelines director - 2.24 times as productive as cops
Average Pipelines Manager Salary Information plus Job, Career Education & Unemployment Help

5. Chemical engineer 4 - 2 times as productive as cops
Average Chemical Engineer IV Salary Information plus Job, Career Education & Unemployment Help

HAHAHA!!! So epic. So you measure "productivity" in pure salary? Thats a hardcore right wing corporatist stereotype, but sure, whatever.

Sorry, but how else would you measure productivity - by feelings?

So.....by your logic.....LeBron James is more productive than all the above careers combined???

The free market seems to think so.

Wait, this gets better:

So Sean Penn, Rosie ODonnell and George Clooney, combined, are 10 times more productive for society than the entire US Marine Corp????

By your logic, yes, simply because they earn more money.

Is that the modern right wing's ideals?

Sorry are any of these people getting paid more than the market thinks they are worth? Nope. I'm sorry your envious that a small fraction of actors are actually productive enough to get paid well. (Although the vast majority of them are unproductive)

And thats another issue I had with the Tea Party mindset. The worship of the "free market" above all logic. Like you just basically admitting you think Sean Penn, George Clooney and Rosie O'Donnell are more productive to our society than the entire US Marine Corp. You gotta be freaking kidding me, right?

 

[Publius1787]

Um.......yeah, thats exactly what I meant. TAXPAYERS paid for our troops to go help out in Haiti. Should we instead have let that island just go straight to hell? Taxpayer money was used to help the Navy take aid to the tsunami victims. Should we say "Go buy a snorkel you losers, my tax money aint for yous to have!!!" No, we helped. If a state can't afford to keep firetrucks gassed to respond to calls, SHOULD WE HELP? Yes, we should.

And yes, most Fire Depts do not have aircraft. If they do, they sure wouldn't make it to Hawaii. Thats why Colorado had to turn to asking the Feds to use the military C17's, which seemed to thankfully get that awful fire under control out there.

Clearly, you have no idea what Jesus was admonishing when he said "thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself". He was definitely not referring to confiscating funds from one neighbor to help another neighbor so that you do not have to do anything yourself. The text simply says nothing towards taxation and expenditures, although that is how OWS parasites see it.

No. But he did speak of a duty to pay one's tax to the ruling authority, and the obey the ruling authority's laws as if they were from God.

And while it may not be in the Bible, I suspect Jesus would be ok with a ruling authority saying "We shall take our extra bread and carry it to the starving in the next village". Hey, call it verse Bucs90 1:1.

I choose life.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdctDMW241Q&list=UUrPr-Eov9aiI9nQVPsyhFxQ&index=8&feature=plcp]Ep. 2 "Theme & Variation" - YouTube[/ame]

 

[bucs90]

Well, gotta go for the night. Lots of "intelligent" responses thought, I'll say that.

 

[Pho_King]

Um.......yeah, thats exactly what I meant. TAXPAYERS paid for our troops to go help out in Haiti. Should we instead have let that island just go straight to hell? Taxpayer money was used to help the Navy take aid to the tsunami victims. Should we say "Go buy a snorkel you losers, my tax money aint for yous to have!!!" No, we helped. If a state can't afford to keep firetrucks gassed to respond to calls, SHOULD WE HELP? Yes, we should.

And yes, most Fire Depts do not have aircraft. If they do, they sure wouldn't make it to Hawaii. Thats why Colorado had to turn to asking the Feds to use the military C17's, which seemed to thankfully get that awful fire under control out there.

Clearly, you have no idea what Jesus was admonishing when he said "thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself". He was definitely not referring to confiscating funds from one neighbor to help another neighbor so that you do not have to do anything yourself. The text simply says nothing towards taxation and expenditures, although that is how OWS parasites see it.

No. But he did speak of a duty to pay one's tax to the ruling authority, and the obey the ruling authority's laws as if they were from God.

And while it may not be in the Bible, I suspect Jesus would be ok with a ruling authority saying "We shall take our extra bread and carry it to the starving in the next village". Hey, call it verse Bucs90 1:1.

Then perhaps you should use your imagined verses to support federal expenditures to help people that you do not want to help directly, instead of misappropriating biblical verse to accommodate your desire to help others with the money of others.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

HAHAHA!!! So epic. So you measure "productivity" in pure salary? Thats a hardcore right wing corporatist stereotype, but sure, whatever.

Sorry, but how else would you measure productivity - by feelings?



The free market seems to think so.

Wait, this gets better:

So Sean Penn, Rosie ODonnell and George Clooney, combined, are 10 times more productive for society than the entire US Marine Corp????

By your logic, yes, simply because they earn more money.

Is that the modern right wing's ideals?

Sorry are any of these people getting paid more than the market thinks they are worth? Nope. I'm sorry your envious that a small fraction of actors are actually productive enough to get paid well. (Although the vast majority of them are unproductive)

And thats another issue I had with the Tea Party mindset. The worship of the "free market" above all logic. Like you just basically admitting you think Sean Penn, George Clooney and Rosie O'Donnell are more productive to our society than the entire US Marine Corp. You gotta be freaking kidding me, right?

Without the wealthy there would be no taxes to pay the Marine corps.

 

[Publius1787]

Well, gotta go for the night. Lots of "intelligent" responses thought, I'll say that.

A shame. I was looking foward to the response to this one. http://www.usmessageboard.com/5804020-post143.html

 

[Publius1787]

Sorry, but how else would you measure productivity - by feelings?



The free market seems to think so.



Sorry are any of these people getting paid more than the market thinks they are worth? Nope. I'm sorry your envious that a small fraction of actors are actually productive enough to get paid well. (Although the vast majority of them are unproductive)

And thats another issue I had with the Tea Party mindset. The worship of the "free market" above all logic. Like you just basically admitting you think Sean Penn, George Clooney and Rosie O'Donnell are more productive to our society than the entire US Marine Corp. You gotta be freaking kidding me, right?

Without the wealthy there would be no taxes to pay the Marine corps.

We don't produce anything. We make production more secure via defending individual liberty from foreign intervention. His assertion is a false one.

 

[Vel]

Ok. Then forget the Bible. Forget the whole conversation.

Breaking News: Honolulu in massive fire from eruption; Honolulu FD is overwhelmed. LAFD, and other West Coast FD's, can't drive there.

Would you, as president, send aid? Or say "Sorry folks, the constitution doesn't grant me the authority to help"?

Very...simple...question.

What you're talking about in your example would be response to a natural disaster, which would certainly merit help. It is different to expect others to pick up the slack for your city's poor financial management and inability to prioritize.
If I spend my money on dinners out and movies and come up short to pay my electric bill, is it your job to help cover my bill?

And the collapse was a financial disaster. Many cities couldn't afford to keep cops on their streets (for basic public safety) and the Feds helped out.

Would you had rather the citizens be left to fend for themselves?

But to the philisophical point the Tea Party guys were trying to make: Does the Federal Government HAVE or NOT HAVE the authority to send aid to a state in the form of fire or police services? Did you know the United States Marine Corp....yes, the USMC...assisted LAPD in the LA riots of the early 90's? Was that CONSTITUTIONAL? Was it needed?

It has been 4 years since the "financial disaster". How long do you think others should be required to support your city's basic needs? What did your town cut in order to keep firemen and police officers on the streets before requiring federal aid? Your problem is not an emergency. If your local people can't handle the budget, elect someone who can.

 

[bucs90]

Clearly, you have no idea what Jesus was admonishing when he said "thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself". He was definitely not referring to confiscating funds from one neighbor to help another neighbor so that you do not have to do anything yourself. The text simply says nothing towards taxation and expenditures, although that is how OWS parasites see it.

No. But he did speak of a duty to pay one's tax to the ruling authority, and the obey the ruling authority's laws as if they were from God.

And while it may not be in the Bible, I suspect Jesus would be ok with a ruling authority saying "We shall take our extra bread and carry it to the starving in the next village". Hey, call it verse Bucs90 1:1.

Then perhaps you should use your imagined verses to support federal expenditures to help people that you do not want to help directly, instead of misappropriating biblical verse to accommodate your desire to help others with the money of others.

Um......Im ok with welfare and food stamps, etc. But ONLY when we can afford it. Right now, we can't. I never pledged to be a full radical leftist. I wish we could heal all disease and feed all the hungry. Right now, our species just hasn't reached that evolution.

However, I believe our species has set up governance, and that structure has a few core elements which should be the LAST resort to ever be cut: Military, police, fire, road work (roads are more modern obviously). And if a govt is going bankrupt, like San Jose or Newark or Scranton, due to huge union deals, then fine, thats a last resort.

But the Tea Party-led Southern cities, counties and states are in many places doing FINE, but they are slashing police/fire comp just out of ideology. Thats why they lost my vote.

You right wingers.....I still agree with you all on some things. You severely aren't getting my point............ Which may in fact be exactly my point and thus why I wont be voting for your guys this fall.

 

[bucs90]

What you're talking about in your example would be response to a natural disaster, which would certainly merit help. It is different to expect others to pick up the slack for your city's poor financial management and inability to prioritize.
If I spend my money on dinners out and movies and come up short to pay my electric bill, is it your job to help cover my bill?

And the collapse was a financial disaster. Many cities couldn't afford to keep cops on their streets (for basic public safety) and the Feds helped out.

Would you had rather the citizens be left to fend for themselves?

But to the philisophical point the Tea Party guys were trying to make: Does the Federal Government HAVE or NOT HAVE the authority to send aid to a state in the form of fire or police services? Did you know the United States Marine Corp....yes, the USMC...assisted LAPD in the LA riots of the early 90's? Was that CONSTITUTIONAL? Was it needed?

It has been 4 years since the "financial disaster". How long do you think others should be required to support your city's basic needs? What did your town cut in order to keep firemen and police officers on the streets before requiring federal aid? Your problem is not an emergency. If your local people can't handle the budget, elect someone who can.

Thats well said. Well, our city and our neighboring cities are doing ok now, they got through the mess. The arrival of Boeing was huge for the local economy, the port is booming again, and growth has exploded in the Charleston Metro. However, during the tough times, the local cities cut NOTHING as far as parks and rec, arts, cultural nonsense, pet projects, etc, etc. They only furloughed cops, firemen and teachers, cut pay, cut benefits, etc. Didn't raise taxes either.....which I'm not pissed about, thats fine, but they should've cut all that other shit first.

Now, with the economy booming, they're still on a slashing rampage, led by Gov Haley who said it's "to send a message".

It's just not right. They're non union here. Very modest pay/benefits. Not the typical "unionized" PD's like out West and North. Which really is how the politicians are getting away with it: They're non union, the cops/firemen can't do shit to stop 'em. Only voters can. And Gov Haley and the local mayors are in fact gonna be in trouble in the next elections. From me certainly, as I"m voting Dem.

Now, federally why am I voting Obama? Well, trust me, it was a gut wrenching decision and process. I just believe a Romney/Ryan regime would send the signal to these same locals that it's "game on" in the slash and burn of all that is govt. That was the deciding factor for me. God I wish we had a better choice than Obama/Romney, but right now we dont.

And secondly, weed should be fucking legal for goodness sake. Gays should be able to marry. And I wish we had harsher penalties for animal cruelty (just a personal cause there).

 

[Luddly Neddite]

The Real Message Behind Mitt Romney’s Anti-Police And Firefighters ‘Gaffe’ | Mediaite

All the right wingers of the political world who are in power (mayors, govs, councils) seem to share the same idea: It's open season on cops and firemen. Lump them into the evil "government worker" label, and start slashing away.

This story didn't get reported much at all. Why? Well, maybe because I used to watch mostly FoxNews, and they just didn't spend a lot of time on it. I'm sure CNN, NBC, etc, didn't either.

And the above article sums it up so well. Romney and the right wing TP need votes from the right wing and independents. Which are mostly middle and upper class, many live in suburbs, and many are white. Which is fine. But the article explains, perfectly, that THOSE voting groups aren't as dependent on cops and firemen as, say, those in inner city ghettos. It says in those places, reductions in cops wont cause "someone to die" as a result. Thus, the voters accept it and dont really care. Again....just government workers, which are BAD.

Which is why I personally think "they" dont get it. Many on the right and in the TP live in the suburbs or in safe rural areas. They see a cop here and there. Probably live in fairly safe areas, with the biggest problems being speeding, DUI, some minor thefts. To them, "more cops" not only makes no sense, but they see TOO MANY cops. (Note: Often the case in cities the cops have helped make safe, the locals feel they are no longer necessary). Same with firemen. No one needs a fireman until their house is on fire.

What they dont realize is most FD's also have certified paramedics on the truck. And respond to ALL medical calls. So a person having a minor medical problem has a paramedic show up. If he/she can treat it there, guess what? It's free. You dont pay for an ambulance ride. You dont pay for an ER visit. Which means healthcare costs never happen. Good for everyone involved.

Unless you're the rich TP'er who sees the fire truck stopped at Subway for lunch and think "what a waste of my tax dollars to have so many fire trucks".

I think it takes real courage to look at the other side honestly and see that you have missed some things.

Its not just RobMe and Robin are anti-fire fighters, cops, teachers. The cops and fire fighters put their lives on the line for us - no questions asked. Teachers are underpaid and over worked but they do it because they love children.

for some reason, rw's and Rs hate them for that.

BUT - every single poster here would call the fire dept if their house was on fire. They'd call the cops if they needed help and they demand teachers to keep teaching their kids all the time they're stabbing them in the back.

IOW, its business as usual.

 

[Publius1787]

The Real Message Behind Mitt Romney’s Anti-Police And Firefighters ‘Gaffe’ | Mediaite

All the right wingers of the political world who are in power (mayors, govs, councils) seem to share the same idea: It's open season on cops and firemen. Lump them into the evil "government worker" label, and start slashing away.

This story didn't get reported much at all. Why? Well, maybe because I used to watch mostly FoxNews, and they just didn't spend a lot of time on it. I'm sure CNN, NBC, etc, didn't either.

And the above article sums it up so well. Romney and the right wing TP need votes from the right wing and independents. Which are mostly middle and upper class, many live in suburbs, and many are white. Which is fine. But the article explains, perfectly, that THOSE voting groups aren't as dependent on cops and firemen as, say, those in inner city ghettos. It says in those places, reductions in cops wont cause "someone to die" as a result. Thus, the voters accept it and dont really care. Again....just government workers, which are BAD.

Which is why I personally think "they" dont get it. Many on the right and in the TP live in the suburbs or in safe rural areas. They see a cop here and there. Probably live in fairly safe areas, with the biggest problems being speeding, DUI, some minor thefts. To them, "more cops" not only makes no sense, but they see TOO MANY cops. (Note: Often the case in cities the cops have helped make safe, the locals feel they are no longer necessary). Same with firemen. No one needs a fireman until their house is on fire.

What they dont realize is most FD's also have certified paramedics on the truck. And respond to ALL medical calls. So a person having a minor medical problem has a paramedic show up. If he/she can treat it there, guess what? It's free. You dont pay for an ambulance ride. You dont pay for an ER visit. Which means healthcare costs never happen. Good for everyone involved.

Unless you're the rich TP'er who sees the fire truck stopped at Subway for lunch and think "what a waste of my tax dollars to have so many fire trucks".

I think it takes real courage to look at the other side honestly and see that you have missed some things.

Its not just RobMe and Robin are anti-fire fighters, cops, teachers. The cops and fire fighters put their lives on the line for us - no questions asked. Teachers are underpaid and over worked but they do it because they love children.

for some reason, rw's and Rs hate them for that.

BUT - every single poster here would call the fire dept if their house was on fire. They'd call the cops if they needed help and they demand teachers to keep teaching their kids all the time they're stabbing them in the back.

IOW, its business as usual.

None of what you said matters unless you want the federal government to look after your cops and your firefighters at my expense. Don’t ask me to bail out the pension/budgets of your public employees when it all falls apart. I certainly did not vote to extend the benefits of your public employees and I should not be on the hook for them when it falls apart. Build your liberal utopia Detroit, L.A., California, Chicago, San Bernardino. Just don't ask me to pay for it! I certainly wont ask you to pay for mine. Deal?

 

[JamesInFlorida]

Tell us, do you believe we need more firefighters? If so, why?

Do you believe the federal government has the authority to fund local firefighters? If so, where is that authority granted?

More? No. But we need to keep the ones we have. And they deserve a decent salary and modest retirement. Union FD's have bloated it, and I accept there will be cutbacks in some of those. The non-union ones in the South, who already dont make much, shouldn't be cut or be cut as LAST resort along with PD. TP mayor are slashing like Edward Scissorhands.

Authority? I dont know. I'm not a Constitutional Law expert. But I'll take a guess. When the colonies won the Revolutionary War, they helped each other on US soil. They helped put out fires the Brits set. Their common folk in the non-regular militia fought off threats for each other, over state lines. I'd guess if George Washington was asked to send help to CHarleston to put out a massive fire, or to control violent crime waves, he would. Oh wait............HE DID.

So, yeah, I'd argue the Feds can send resources to a state for the protection of it's people if needed.

What part of 16+ trillion in debt do you not get? Jesus

Would and should are two different concepts. I don't think the federal government should necessarily hire firefighters, but there is an argument that they could do so constitutionally (FEMA is a federal organization that's a good example that performs similar services).