Why aren't theists considered mentally ill?

[Delta4Embassy]

That practice is EXTREMELY rare and closeted. Couldnt find one of those outside of 10 cities in the county. There IS a health risk involved. What major motivation is there for you to DEMAND legislation? Other than its a good thing to bring up anytime the topic is ""how religious practice is annoying to me""..,

Your point reminds me of the points made about voter fraud being an issue in search of a problem or something like that.

The drawing of blood from the circumcision incision is not a sexual act for one thing. If it involved the ear, or a toe we wouldn't even be talking about it. The only reason we do talk about it is because Americans are unnaturally immature and xenophobic. Anything not out of a "Leave it to Beaver" or "Waltons" episode is attacked.

Trust me when I say I can flip open a Bible and cite pleanty of full-on sinful things average America does with their kids. This though is not sinful. Weird, and quaint seeing as how there's been medical devices that do this very thing for some time now ("Nurse, suction." et al.), but not sinful.

 

[Capstone]

...the Jewish circumcision ritual of sucking the blood from the incision area should also be deemed illegal? ...

That practice is EXTREMELY rare and closeted. Couldnt find one of those outside of 10 cities in the county. ...

Did you mean country instead of "county"?

If so, that may be because the Jewish-American population, which constitutes around 2% of the population in the United States, is heavily concentrated in major metropolitan areas. For instance, according to the ASARB's 2000 Survey, nearly 5 million Jewish-Americans lived in 10 cities across the country at the time. Another survey from that same year, which was sponsored by the Jewish Federations of North America and has since been shown as somewhat flawed, had the overall Jewish-American population at just above 5.2 million. Even by today's adjusted numbers for Jewish-Americans, though, it's likely that the percentages of metro-to-rural habitation remain overwhelmingly stacked on the side of the metro.

Beyond that, if the practice is indeed "closeted", as you claim, it may be difficult to accurately gauge the "EXTREMENESS" of its "rare[ness]", so I can't help but wonder as to the legitimacy of your source on the matter.

...There IS a health risk involved. What major motivation is there for you to DEMAND legislation?...

It seems to me that you may have answered your own question there.

 

[sealybobo]

...How do we determine which sacred religious traditions should be considered the sort of behavior that "warrants state intervention"?

The same way we always have... Legislatively, followed by enforcement and the judicial process.

This ain't rocket science - fair and simple Civil Laws that ALWAYS trump Religious Laws (sacred or not).

So, in your view, since placing an infant's penis in one's mouth for reasons other than religious tradition IS currently illegal, the Jewish circumcision ritual of sucking the blood from the incision area should also be deemed illegal? If so, good luck with implementing the legislative and enforcement aspects of your view.

I hope you'll pardon the pun, but I don't agree that this issue is as cut and dry as you're trying to portray it.

Another poster has pointed out certain practices of other religious groups that are similarly problematic. There HAS to be a clearly defined set of equitable and unambiguous criteria for determining which 'behaviors' should be targeted for state intervention.

Romney's grandparents were polygamous Mormons who fled the United States with their children because of the federal government's prosecution of polygamy.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Specificly, suffering from delusional disorder? Reading up on it for another thread, the description sounded awfully familar.

Uh, because they are not - you drooling bigot....

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Uh, because they are not - you drooling bigot....

So the equivilent of "Nuh-uh" is your case? Well I'm convinced.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

This is the OP in two parts, to which your rebuttal is "Nuh uh."

"Specificly, suffering from delusional disorder? Reading up on it for another thread, the description sounded awfully familar.

"Delusional disorder, previously called paranoid disorder, is a type of serious mental illness called a "psychosis" in which a person cannot tell what is real from what is imagined. The main feature of this disorder is the presence of delusions, which are unshakable beliefs in something untrue. People with delusional disorder experience non-bizarre delusions, which involve situations that could occur in real life, such as being followed, poisoned, deceived, conspired against, or loved from a distance. These delusions usually involve the misinterpretation of perceptions or experiences. In reality, however, the situations are either not true at all or highly exaggerated.

People with delusional disorder often can continue to socialize and function normally, apart from the subject of their delusion, and generally do not behave in an obviously odd or bizarre manner. This is unlike people with other psychotic disorders, who also might have delusions as a symptom of their disorder. In some cases, however, people with delusional disorder might become so preoccupied with their delusions that their lives are disrupted."

"People with delusional disorder experience non-bizarre delusions, which involve situations that could occur in real life, such as being followed, poisoned, deceived, conspired against, or loved from a distance. These delusions usually involve the misinterpretation of perceptions or experiences. In reality, however, the situations are either not true at all or highly exaggerated."

"...being followed..." God sees everything you do no matter where you are.

"...deceived..." Sounds like Satan, God's evil opposite.

"...conspired against..." Believing Satan is actively tempting you to make you go to hell.

"...loved from a distance..." God loves you.

"misinterpretation of perceptions or experiences." Visions = dreams. Voices in your head you think are God or demons are your own inner monologue or an acute mental illness. Miracles = random chance and coincidence."

 

[AVG-JOE]

...How do we determine which sacred religious traditions should be considered the sort of behavior that "warrants state intervention"?

The same way we always have... Legislatively, followed by enforcement and the judicial process.

This ain't rocket science - fair and simple Civil Laws that ALWAYS trump Religious Laws (sacred or not).

So, in your view, since placing an infant's penis in one's mouth for reasons other than religious tradition IS currently illegal, the Jewish circumcision ritual of sucking the blood from the incision area should also be deemed illegal? If so, good luck with implementing the legislative and enforcement aspects of your view.

I hope you'll pardon the pun, but I don't agree that this issue is as cut and dry as you're trying to portray it.

Another poster has pointed out certain practices of other religious groups that are similarly problematic. There HAS to be a clearly defined set of equitable and unambiguous criteria for determining which 'behaviors' should be targeted for state intervention.

Actually, the issue is exactly that cut and dry.

Baby steps.
​

Just like The United States Constitution is very cut and dry when it says it applies to "All The People", but it took almost 200 years for the black Americans to consolidate enough political power to use it to really secure their piece of the American Pie, and it looks like the gay Americans will be close on their heels at 250+.

Baby steps.
​

Evolution can get ugly, but it works.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Eventually, those types of practices will be relegated to history.

The Jews apparently have enough political clout in many nations to continue to get away it. Shit happens.

One day, probably sooner than later, the practice will most likely fade for marketing reasons, starting in the West.

Welcome to the 21st Century.​

 

[Uncensored2008]

So the equivilent of "Nuh-uh" is your case? Well I'm convinced.

I'm not surprised that is what you read into my reply, nor that you are incapable of spelling "equivalent" correctly.

Let's try again, you drooling bigot: the reason that theists are not considered mentally ill is because theism is not a symptom of mental illness.

Now bigotry on the other hand...

 

[Uncensored2008]

Eventually, those types of practices will be relegated to history.

The Jews apparently have enough political clout in many nations to continue to get away it. Shit happens.

One day, probably sooner than later, the practice will most likely fade for marketing reasons, starting in the West.

Welcome to the 21st Century.​

Yeah, those Jews are getting away with it.

If only you could come up with some final solution, eh Joe?

 

[flacaltenn]

...the Jewish circumcision ritual of sucking the blood from the incision area should also be deemed illegal? ...

That practice is EXTREMELY rare and closeted. Couldnt find one of those outside of 10 cities in the county. ...

Did you mean country instead of "county"?

If so, that may be because the Jewish-American population, which constitutes around 2% of the population in the United States, is heavily concentrated in major metropolitan areas. For instance, according to the ASARB's 2000 Survey, nearly 5 million Jewish-Americans lived in 10 cities across the country at the time. Another survey from that same year, which was sponsored by the Jewish Federations of North America and has since been shown as somewhat flawed, had the overall Jewish-American population at just above 5.2 million. Even by today's adjusted numbers for Jewish-Americans, though, it's likely that the percentages of metro-to-rural habitation remain overwhelmingly stacked on the side of the metro.

Beyond that, if the practice is indeed "closeted", as you claim, it may be difficult to accurately gauge the "EXTREMENESS" of its "rare[ness]", so I can't help but wonder as to the legitimacy of your source on the matter.

...There IS a health risk involved. What major motivation is there for you to DEMAND legislation?...

It seems to me that you may have answered your own question there.

Nope.. Gotz nothing to do with Urban/Rural statistics. Other than the one VERY SMALL SECT that maintains this practice is located in about 4 cities. This ritual is NOT practiced by the vast majority of the religion. And I don't make allegations on the board that I can't back up.

N.Y. newborn contracts herpes from controversial circumcision rite Jewish Telegraphic Agency

Metzitzah b’peh is not used in most Jewish circumcision ceremonies, but many in the haredi Orthodox community still adhere to the rite. Many haredi leaders have resisted calls to use alternative approaches.

New York wants to ban Jewish circumcision ritual because it causes fatal HERPES in babies Mail Online


Heath chiefs in New York are now pushing through regulation forcing anybody wishing to have the procedure carried out on their babies to sign a consent waiver.
But some Orthodox Jews have complained about the measures claiming that they infringe on their 'religious freedom'.
Rabbi Moshe Tendler, professor of Talmudic Law and Bioethics at Yeshiva University, told KTLA that the practice was 'primitive nonsense'.

'The ritual has nothing to do with religion. It's only their customs. But they've managed to convince the city that it's a violation of their religious freedoms,' he added.

If a professor of Talmudic Law and BioEthics at Yeshiva says it's MARGINAL (closeted) rare and primitive nonsense, they you haters are gonna have to find something else to whine about --- aren't you?

It's about as rare in Judaism as snake handling is in Christianity. But folks like the haters on this forum LOVE to wave it around as tho it's relevant to something..

 

[AVG-JOE]

Eventually, those types of practices will be relegated to history.

The Jews apparently have enough political clout in many nations to continue to get away it. Shit happens.

One day, probably sooner than later, the practice will most likely fade for marketing reasons, starting in the West.

Welcome to the 21st Century.​

Yeah, those Jews are getting away with it.

If only you could come up with some final solution, eh Joe?

As I state in my posts, it's not my call one way or the other.

The Jews have enough political clout in this here and now in any neighborhood that I give a shit about for me to find that particular crusade unpalatable under any circumstances, and I'm way past being liberal enough to feel like I should wait for victims to come forward and bitch about the experience before considering it to be a public, political issue.

 

[BillyP]

So we've agreed, theists are considered mentally ill. Good. It's about time.

 

[AVG-JOE]

No... we've established that EVERYbody is mentally ill.

​

 

[AVG-JOE]

It's the only way to remain sane while not knowing from where Monkeys came or what lay beyond death's door.

 

[haissem123]

if you believe in this world and how/where it's heading too or for, you my dear friend are the delusional one.
Schizophrenia

Our modern lives have made us all,
Para”noids”,
Rushing around until we fall,
As skits so frantic,
We’ve become manick,
Depressedants,
With delusions of grandeur,
And suicidal tendencies,
So next time your lives do race,
Your time here embrace,
For in the blink of his eye,
We all must die.

 

[haissem123]

fishpool parable

• 
  

I was cleaning "my" brother's fish tank out after some weeks of neglect through all May’s and June’s showers I had no desire to deal with more dirty water till after the break in the weather. Well, after kicking up the covered walls with the magnascrubby, I proceeded to siphon filter the bottom and rock sediment. I drained the muddy water left to about half of 150 gallons give or take twenty. I filled to the top with hose water and was amazed after doing so at how cloudy and murky the "clear" water was still. (Don’t look know but I think this is headed for another wanna those parallel parable thingamabobs) Then "my first son" Zachary an angel of five, whom happened to point out the muddied waters, asked if I could put a fish in the pool. I had long dreamt of the time when I could let the fishes into the pool and swim with them myself, so of course I obliged. I scooped but one I thought best up to the task. He wasn't the biggest or the boldest but a meek looking fellow of small stature but strong frame and conviction. I dropped him over the side and went to put on my trunks to swim with nature. lol. I "pampered" Zac and off we went to see our fish in action. He was swimming in the currents hiding off to the shade. I suppose to stay out of sight of predators. We swam and watched our little friend feel his freedom. I went for my glass of ice water and decided a good way to get the fish from pool to home tank. I chased him between my glass and the net. Hey swam into the glass not seeing its confines. It was a typical iced teas summer glass. I got a better look at it when I had him in. It had three distinct houses painted around its mid circumference. I watched him try to shoot through them in the clear spaces and bump head first into the invisible walls. I then began to see how this fish that actually was jumping and skipping out of the water to get away from and out of my net was now subdued by shadows on invisible walls. I lowered the glass and was dismayed to see the fish lower himself with it. The lip was at jumping level and he could easily jump it and be free to roam the huge heaven he had just found. But the 3 three big houses seem to be keeping him down below their ominous structures. They were all connected by a fence of some sort and that made it seem they were working together to keep him down. I lowered the lip a bit further and with some gentle coaxing and time he surfaced to freedom. Free from any burden the homes had put on him. I eventually recaptured him and put him back into his now clearer tank. I wonder what tales of fantasy he is telling his tank mates tonight about the heaven he once saw. Wonder if we'll ever see the water through the glass houses? p.s. I tested. The chlorine was nil and the ph was perfect. I hope I don't find a bunch of dried fish on my floor tomorrow. Never know if they get some crazy ideas of jumping the lip of their glass searching for a heaven ever last.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Somethin' fishy....​

 

[BillyP]

No... we've established that EVERYbody is mentally ill.

​

No need to worry about what happens when you die, we all go to the same place. Theists go mental worrying if they've kissed enough butt of the god of books.

 

[Capstone]

Nope.. Gotz nothing to do with Urban/Rural statistics. Other than the one VERY SMALL SECT that maintains this practice is located in about 4 cities. ...

Funny thing about the U.S.Ultra-Orthodox communities, at least according to the Pew Research Center, is that they have a 4.1 children born per adult ratio, as compared to the 1.9 ratio of Jews overall.

Which probably goes a long way towards explaining articles like this.

Haredi Orthodox account for bulk of Jewish population growth in New York City
by Gil Shefler, JTA [...]January 22, 2013 | 9:33 am [...]

6% of 6.4 million is 384,000 people, and the group is growing (not shrinking) at more than double the rate of all other groups in American Jewry, Flacs. If, as your article stated, "many in the haredi Orthodox community still adhere to the rite", that means way too many infants are still being subjected to the dangerous circumcision ritual on a regular basis.

...If a professor of Talmudic Law and BioEthics at Yeshiva says it's MARGINAL (closeted) rare and primitive nonsense, they you haters are gonna have to find something else to whine about --- aren't you? ...

You're misrepresenting what Professor Tendler said. He called it "primitive nonsense" and stated his view that it's a matter of custom not religion.

It was the article that stated the ritual "is not used in most Jewish circumcision ceremonies", prior to conceding that "many in the haredi Orthodox community still adhere to the rite". So, however rare you think it is, it's not rare enough in the United States.

...It's about as rare in Judaism as snake handling is in Christianity. ...

In what universe does an estimated "125 tiny churches tucked away in rural Appalachia" amount to 6-9% of all Christians in the United States?

Besides, several states have passed laws against the practice of snake-handling, in spite of its relgious significance to those 125 tiny congregations, so maybe it's time to focus on the dangerous rituals of some significantly larger congregations.