Why aren't theists considered mentally ill?

[AVG-JOE]

Convinced real invisible superbeings in another dimension that will punish you if you don't follow a book rule us is for sure the thinking of a diseased mind. Mentally deficient and reality challenged.

Does it matter?

The sooner we all relax about the unanswerable questions of Creation and Death, the sooner we can begin to work together to drive this fucker back to the stars.

Just 'cause Monkeys can't prove how life began or learn the truth about what lay beyond death's door doesn't mean we can't make the most of the gift of life.

Let sleeping dogs and deluded Monkeys lay....

Trouble with the let sleeping dogs lie approach is when we do that delusional people post threads about who they think is in hell. And since some people might actually believe that, the emotional harm and grief that kind of thing can cause should be refuted strenuously.

Posting threads on the internet is EXACTLY what the deluded should be allowed to do. Giving them guns apparently leads to things like ISIS.

Besides, if we truly accept the concept of unanswerable questions giving the only relevance to religion, and ass-u-me-ing that we're pretty damn sure of our own beliefs, we're forced to accept that we too are deluded.

Based on the premise of the opening post, it's the Monkeys who're frustratedly undecided on the questions of Origins and Death who are the grounded ones, and everyone who believes anything is deluded.

 

[amrchaos]

I am an Atheists and I have a big problem with this thread....

I don't care how rational a person is, each one of us has some kind of delusions we believe in.

What do you think? Do you think there are humans beings who are completely rational?


Let me put it this way: Vulcans are figments of our imagination! They are new age fairies! The sci-fi version of angels and flying nuns!!


You have never seen what happens when you put a "normal" person on a crazy pill!!

Bad analogy vulcans and fairies. People use to claim to have seen fairies and believed they existed. Afaik no one's ever claimed to have met a Vulcan. Grays are the obvious analogy to fairies.

Normal person doesn't need a chemical to become crazy. Lock a parent up in a home with their newborn child and never give them any time off and you'll see crazy within 48 hours.

Point taken, but I am referring to the idea that there exists humans that are completely rational. That is, not enslaved to their emotions, intuition and/or ignorance.

Anyone of those can taint rational thought and produce a delusion of reality. The only way to get rid of them is to provide evidence that the individual understands that leads him/her to realize they are holding a delusion.


And even in many cases, it is not really necessary to diagnose them as mentally ill.


I think what you are trying to suggest is that some of these people that "conversate"(I mean have actual discussions, not this 'intuitive conversation' that many christians allude to) with some unseen character are schizophrenic, which is a mental illness and is treated when it gets out of hand.

You are taking what some people say to literal. When a believer says he had a discussion with god or something of the like, he did what everyone does. He sat down and reasoned out what he believed to be right or best--as according to his ideas and values.

Most of them are not crazy, they just talk like they are crazy. Big difference.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Specificly, suffering from delusional disorder? Reading up on it for another thread, the description sounded awfully familar.

"Delusional disorder, previously called paranoid disorder, is a type of serious mental illness called a "psychosis" in which a person cannot tell what is real from what is imagined. The main feature of this disorder is the presence of delusions, which are unshakable beliefs in something untrue. People with delusional disorder experience non-bizarre delusions, which involve situations that could occur in real life, such as being followed, poisoned, deceived, conspired against, or loved from a distance. These delusions usually involve the misinterpretation of perceptions or experiences. In reality, however, the situations are either not true at all or highly exaggerated.

People with delusional disorder often can continue to socialize and function normally, apart from the subject of their delusion, and generally do not behave in an obviously odd or bizarre manner. This is unlike people with other psychotic disorders, who also might have delusions as a symptom of their disorder. In some cases, however, people with delusional disorder might become so preoccupied with their delusions that their lives are disrupted."

Perhaps delusional disorders should be ignored unless and until BEHAVIOR warrants state intervention.


EVERYbody has the same right to be wrong. The ancient stories of creation by the God of Abraham can no more be disproved than can the theories of evolution or any other creation stories Monkeys believe in.

If Christians, Muslims and Jews are deluded, the same can be said for believers in Evolution and The Flying Spaghetti Monster.


Perhaps delusional disorders should be ignored unless and until BEHAVIOR warrants state intervention.

Firstly, it is that solely reactionary thinking when it comes to mental disorders that leads to so many tragic cases of people with such disorders falling through the cracks and causing harm to themselves and others. The system SHOULD step in before it's too late and BEFORE that person's "behavior warrants state intervention"

Second, people don't actually worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster and the argument that God can't be disproven any more than evolution is a crappy one. A negative cannot be disproven 100% but that is no reason to believe in it. I cannot prove to a degree of 100% certainty that unicorns don't exist but I have no reason to think they do, so I don't. Were anyone to claim that they saw one, the burden would be on them to prove it, not on me to disprove it. That burden becomes even greater if they start making claims that they "speak with the unicorn" and that "the unicorn hates fags" and says that "we shouldn't let them get married" for example. You are now asking the rest of us to live OUR lives in accordance to something YOU claim is true but cannot verify for the rest of us.

If you claim something is real or true then you must provide evidence for it. Evolution does this. Religion does not.

Additionally, there are large swaths of the Bible that CAN and HAVE been shown to be false after historical, archaeological and other scientific study.

But that's not the point.

If someone believes that they saw a unicorn, being unable to prove the sighting to you will in no way diminish their belief.

The point is pointing out the equal right of all of us to be wrong in our beliefs about the unprovable questions.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Specificly, suffering from delusional disorder? Reading up on it for another thread, the description sounded awfully familar.

"Delusional disorder, previously called paranoid disorder, is a type of serious mental illness called a "psychosis" in which a person cannot tell what is real from what is imagined. The main feature of this disorder is the presence of delusions, which are unshakable beliefs in something untrue. People with delusional disorder experience non-bizarre delusions, which involve situations that could occur in real life, such as being followed, poisoned, deceived, conspired against, or loved from a distance. These delusions usually involve the misinterpretation of perceptions or experiences. In reality, however, the situations are either not true at all or highly exaggerated.

People with delusional disorder often can continue to socialize and function normally, apart from the subject of their delusion, and generally do not behave in an obviously odd or bizarre manner. This is unlike people with other psychotic disorders, who also might have delusions as a symptom of their disorder. In some cases, however, people with delusional disorder might become so preoccupied with their delusions that their lives are disrupted."

Perhaps delusional disorders should be ignored unless and until BEHAVIOR warrants state intervention.


EVERYbody has the same right to be wrong. The ancient stories of creation by the God of Abraham can no more be disproved than can the theories of evolution or any other creation stories Monkeys believe in.

If Christians, Muslims and Jews are deluded, the same can be said for believers in Evolution and The Flying Spaghetti Monster.


Perhaps delusional disorders should be ignored unless and until BEHAVIOR warrants state intervention.

You make valid points but we're left to deal with some inescapable realities surrounding religious fundamentalists.

These are the folks who pre-define the supernatural as "excused" from any verifiable standard and then proceed calmly and "reasonably" inside that paradigm. At their level, it's "religious belief". At another level, it's utter delusion. Both are the same break from reality, the only difference is in degree and in overt harm it might cause.

"Faith" means you have no way to discern the difference.

Reason lets us understand both for what they actually are.

We need to be on our guard against the science-hating, literalist view embracing, “gods did it” screaming”, types. People don’t fly commercial airliners into mega-buildings because they’re unhappy with the in-flight meal. They do so out of deep seated convictions regarding their religious views and carnal rewards in the afterlife.

Similarly, Christian fundamentalists with their eye on the ball regarding the "Endtimes" are not behaving in a manner that is conducive to a healthy and productive life. There are consequences to a worldview (akin to fascism), wherein the heathens are low life's who will not pass into "heaven" when the gawds return and once again wipe humanity from the planet.

Every idiot has the right to build a bomb shelter in their back yard.

Not every idiot has the right to stock it with real bombs.

The answer remains reasonable Civil Laws that ALWAYS trump religious law whenever the two conflict.

 

[flacaltenn]

Yep.. The writers of the Declaration of Independence were delusionary and mentally ill..

But forget about the super-being for a moment. What would you call a group of people who set the alarm every Sunday morning, get dressed and FORCE themselves to go socialize, be inspired and pray. Or people who have beautiful traditions that other ethnicities also celebrate? Folks who give up their vacations to go on mission trips to hellholes? These are DISCIPLINED people, with a large dose of HUMILITY. Where MAN does not have all the answers and shouldn't have supremacy over anyone's UNALIENABLE rights.

So what would you call LESS disciplined, and less humbled people?

Now --- I'm CERTAIN that you accept the premise that ALL MATTER and ALL ENERGY in the entire universe fit on the head of pin prior to creation.. Pardon me while I chuckle about your delusion.. It's a might easier to buy the Plagues of Egypt and the parting of the Red Sea than that there whopper... I see caravans of white restraining jackets arriving shortly.

 

[amrchaos]

Yep.. The writers of the Declaration of Independence were delusionary and mentally ill..

Hey, who say they were not? They did take on a world superpower at that time(The British empire) and expected to win.

I don't know--that sounded pretty delusional to me. But look, their risk paid off right?

Because we respect someones ideas or actions does not mean they were not delusional. In fact, delusions tend to lead to risk taking, which could be either good or bad, depending on the outcome.

 

[AtheistBuddah]

Specificly, suffering from delusional disorder? Reading up on it for another thread, the description sounded awfully familar.

"Delusional disorder, previously called paranoid disorder, is a type of serious mental illness called a "psychosis" in which a person cannot tell what is real from what is imagined. The main feature of this disorder is the presence of delusions, which are unshakable beliefs in something untrue. People with delusional disorder experience non-bizarre delusions, which involve situations that could occur in real life, such as being followed, poisoned, deceived, conspired against, or loved from a distance. These delusions usually involve the misinterpretation of perceptions or experiences. In reality, however, the situations are either not true at all or highly exaggerated.

People with delusional disorder often can continue to socialize and function normally, apart from the subject of their delusion, and generally do not behave in an obviously odd or bizarre manner. This is unlike people with other psychotic disorders, who also might have delusions as a symptom of their disorder. In some cases, however, people with delusional disorder might become so preoccupied with their delusions that their lives are disrupted."

Perhaps delusional disorders should be ignored unless and until BEHAVIOR warrants state intervention.


EVERYbody has the same right to be wrong. The ancient stories of creation by the God of Abraham can no more be disproved than can the theories of evolution or any other creation stories Monkeys believe in.

If Christians, Muslims and Jews are deluded, the same can be said for believers in Evolution and The Flying Spaghetti Monster.


Perhaps delusional disorders should be ignored unless and until BEHAVIOR warrants state intervention.

Firstly, it is that solely reactionary thinking when it comes to mental disorders that leads to so many tragic cases of people with such disorders falling through the cracks and causing harm to themselves and others. The system SHOULD step in before it's too late and BEFORE that person's "behavior warrants state intervention"

Second, people don't actually worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster and the argument that God can't be disproven any more than evolution is a crappy one. A negative cannot be disproven 100% but that is no reason to believe in it. I cannot prove to a degree of 100% certainty that unicorns don't exist but I have no reason to think they do, so I don't. Were anyone to claim that they saw one, the burden would be on them to prove it, not on me to disprove it. That burden becomes even greater if they start making claims that they "speak with the unicorn" and that "the unicorn hates fags" and says that "we shouldn't let them get married" for example. You are now asking the rest of us to live OUR lives in accordance to something YOU claim is true but cannot verify for the rest of us.

If you claim something is real or true then you must provide evidence for it. Evolution does this. Religion does not.

Additionally, there are large swaths of the Bible that CAN and HAVE been shown to be false after historical, archaeological and other scientific study.

But that's not the point.

If someone believes that they saw a unicorn, being unable to prove the sighting to you will in no way diminish their belief.

The point is pointing out the equal right of all of us to be wrong in our beliefs about the unprovable questions.

The point is that no one has the right to force others to live by THEIR beliefs. Yes people are free to believe whatever they want whether they can prove it or not but one person's rights end where another person's begin. Once someone's belief in something starts causing them to infringe upon the rights of others, there lies the problem.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Yep.. The writers of the Declaration of Independence were delusionary and mentally ill..

But forget about the super-being for a moment. What would you call a group of people who set the alarm every Sunday morning, get dressed and FORCE themselves to go socialize, be inspired and pray. Or people who have beautiful traditions that other ethnicities also celebrate? Folks who give up their vacations to go on mission trips to hellholes? These are DISCIPLINED people, with a large dose of HUMILITY. Where MAN does not have all the answers and shouldn't have supremacy over anyone's UNALIENABLE rights.

So what would you call LESS disciplined, and less humbled people?

Now --- I'm CERTAIN that you accept the premise that ALL MATTER and ALL ENERGY in the entire universe fit on the head of pin prior to creation.. Pardon me while I chuckle about your delusion.. It's a might easier to buy the Plagues of Egypt and the parting of the Red Sea than that there whopper... I see caravans of white restraining jackets arriving shortly.

Before deifying missionaries, it should be noted that they have an economic incentive to doing that. More members in your church, the more tithes you can get, and thus the more power. Chalking it up to simply noble intentions is very naive.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Specificly, suffering from delusional disorder? Reading up on it for another thread, the description sounded awfully familar.

"Delusional disorder, previously called paranoid disorder, is a type of serious mental illness called a "psychosis" in which a person cannot tell what is real from what is imagined. The main feature of this disorder is the presence of delusions, which are unshakable beliefs in something untrue. People with delusional disorder experience non-bizarre delusions, which involve situations that could occur in real life, such as being followed, poisoned, deceived, conspired against, or loved from a distance. These delusions usually involve the misinterpretation of perceptions or experiences. In reality, however, the situations are either not true at all or highly exaggerated.

People with delusional disorder often can continue to socialize and function normally, apart from the subject of their delusion, and generally do not behave in an obviously odd or bizarre manner. This is unlike people with other psychotic disorders, who also might have delusions as a symptom of their disorder. In some cases, however, people with delusional disorder might become so preoccupied with their delusions that their lives are disrupted."

Perhaps delusional disorders should be ignored unless and until BEHAVIOR warrants state intervention.


EVERYbody has the same right to be wrong. The ancient stories of creation by the God of Abraham can no more be disproved than can the theories of evolution or any other creation stories Monkeys believe in.

If Christians, Muslims and Jews are deluded, the same can be said for believers in Evolution and The Flying Spaghetti Monster.


Perhaps delusional disorders should be ignored unless and until BEHAVIOR warrants state intervention.

Firstly, it is that solely reactionary thinking when it comes to mental disorders that leads to so many tragic cases of people with such disorders falling through the cracks and causing harm to themselves and others. The system SHOULD step in before it's too late and BEFORE that person's "behavior warrants state intervention"

Second, people don't actually worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster and the argument that God can't be disproven any more than evolution is a crappy one. A negative cannot be disproven 100% but that is no reason to believe in it. I cannot prove to a degree of 100% certainty that unicorns don't exist but I have no reason to think they do, so I don't. Were anyone to claim that they saw one, the burden would be on them to prove it, not on me to disprove it. That burden becomes even greater if they start making claims that they "speak with the unicorn" and that "the unicorn hates fags" and says that "we shouldn't let them get married" for example. You are now asking the rest of us to live OUR lives in accordance to something YOU claim is true but cannot verify for the rest of us.

If you claim something is real or true then you must provide evidence for it. Evolution does this. Religion does not.

Additionally, there are large swaths of the Bible that CAN and HAVE been shown to be false after historical, archaeological and other scientific study.

But that's not the point.

If someone believes that they saw a unicorn, being unable to prove the sighting to you will in no way diminish their belief.

The point is pointing out the equal right of all of us to be wrong in our beliefs about the unprovable questions.

The point is that no one has the right to force others to live by THEIR beliefs. Yes people are free to believe whatever they want whether they can prove it or not but one person's rights end where another person's begin. Once someone's belief in something starts causing them to infringe upon the rights of others, there lies the problem.

Now you've got it!


THIS is the reason we need reasonable Civil Laws that we all can agree on which ALWAYS trump Religious Laws whenever the two conflict.

 

[AVG-JOE]

The point is to ignore the delusions and focus on annoying behavior.

 

[Bfgrn]

Yep.. The writers of the Declaration of Independence were delusionary and mentally ill..

But forget about the super-being for a moment. What would you call a group of people who set the alarm every Sunday morning, get dressed and FORCE themselves to go socialize, be inspired and pray. Or people who have beautiful traditions that other ethnicities also celebrate? Folks who give up their vacations to go on mission trips to hellholes? These are DISCIPLINED people, with a large dose of HUMILITY. Where MAN does not have all the answers and shouldn't have supremacy over anyone's UNALIENABLE rights.

So what would you call LESS disciplined, and less humbled people?

Now --- I'm CERTAIN that you accept the premise that ALL MATTER and ALL ENERGY in the entire universe fit on the head of pin prior to creation.. Pardon me while I chuckle about your delusion.. It's a might easier to buy the Plagues of Egypt and the parting of the Red Sea than that there whopper... I see caravans of white restraining jackets arriving shortly.

Before deifying missionaries, it should be noted that they have an economic incentive to doing that. More members in your church, the more tithes you can get, and thus the more power. Chalking it up to simply noble intentions is very naive.

Economic incentive? REALLY?? How much do missionaries make???

How Much Money Do Missionaries Make Chron.com


Missionary Wages
The amount you can expect to earn really depends on the organization funding the mission. For example, Campus Crusade for Christ offered an annual salary of $2,549 for a single missionary and $6,502 for a missionary family in 2009. The Evangelical Free Church of America, on the other hand, provided $1,150 a month, or $13,800 a year, for a single missionary, and this amount was doubled for couples going into missionary service. With Change Volunteers, the pay is anywhere from $35,000 to $50,000 for a mission in Africa.

You claim to have an interest in psychology and human behavior.

Lesson #1: No one can possibly know another person's motivations. So when someone 'claims' to know another person's motivations, they are ONLY revealing their OWN motivations....

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Imbecile. The missionaries are tools of their church who makes the money. Either you're one of the stupiest people in the world, or you're trying to make it seem like because missionaries get jack the premise is wrong. Money gets made in secret, not gonna see it on a W-2.

 

[Bfgrn]

Imbecile. The missionaries are tools of their church who makes the money. Either you're one of the stupiest people in the world, or you're trying to make it seem like because missionaries get jack the premise is wrong. Money gets made in secret, not gonna see it on a W-2.

Thank you for reinforcing Lesson #1...


A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything but the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Thank you for reinforcing Lesson #1...


A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything but the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde

(blink blink) Did you just quote a gay guy who presumedly is in hell? Some Christian you are.

 

[BillyP]

Missionaries are the door-to-door vacuum sales people of the religious world.

 

[Bfgrn]

Thank you for reinforcing Lesson #1...


A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything but the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde

(blink blink) Did you just quote a gay guy who presumedly is in hell? Some Christian you are.

Let's see if I can come up with a reply that will be at your intelligence level...

"I know you are, but what am I?"


Only the shallow know themselves.
Oscar Wilde

 

[dilloduck]

The OP Makes Uncle Joe Smile

Religion is the Opiate of the people

Believe in Uncle Joe

Religion is like Opium... and Joseph Stalin was an amazing human.

​

I think he would probably change that to the internet if he we alive today.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Missionaries are the door-to-door vacuum sales people of the religious world.

More like sappers or other infiltrators. They only tell ya about the good stuff to sucker ya in. Then when surrounded and unable to escape comes the "oh by the way" stuff.

 

[BillyP]

Missionaries are the door-to-door vacuum sales people of the religious world.

More like sappers or other infiltrators. They only tell ya about the good stuff to sucker ya in. Then when surrounded and unable to escape comes the "oh by the way" stuff.

I had a young couple come to my door once and I said to them: I can prove to you that your god doesn't exist, so they both stop and wait for my answer, so I told them: do you really think that if your god existed that it would need you to go door to door? The girl burst out laughing and I went back in my house. A good time was had by all.

 

[PratchettFan]

The point is that no one has the right to force others to live by THEIR beliefs. Yes people are free to believe whatever they want whether they can prove it or not but one person's rights end where another person's begin. Once someone's belief in something starts causing them to infringe upon the rights of others, there lies the problem.

Which rights are we talking about?