White Students No Longer Majority in Schools

[Unkotare]

No , because to master the language you must be a petulant prick.

Then I guess you'll have to settle for being a semi-literate buffoon. Good luck with that.

And you a petulant prick. Let's be honest, it is not English we're squabbling about. Rather, it is how much of a self-righteous bitch we can be. Your trump is very clear.

There isn't enough time or reason to pursue this.

Yeeeeaaaaaah......retreat does seem your only option at this point.

 

[Samson]

I'm not talking about a "visit," I'm talking about students who come here - sometimes part or all of their family moves here - to enroll starting at the middle school level if not earlier.

So what?

Are you saying that "part or all" of a family moves to another fucking country so Johnny can learn how to .....what?

Prepare for college.

Exactly what country doesn't have colleges, so entire families must move to the USA so their kids can attend public school, so they can go to college?

Let's take Mexico for example.

How have you been able to identify the reason Mexicans need to enter the UAS not in the potential to improve their personal wealth, but rather, the potential to improve their children's education?

 

[Flopper]

It's certainly looks like Kipp Schools are successful in improving performance. However, I have to wonder whether that's because they are basically working with students that are easier to teach and much more committed than their peers.

Yes the kids and parents are more committed but this isn't the key factor. That commitment and concern were always there, in fact they have to be present before the parents/student even decide to apply to KIPP lotteries. If the concern and commitment are present during the child's enrollment in public school how come they don't translate into improved performance? The reason the kid is flailing about in public school has little to do with his own commitment or his parent's oversight - it has to do with how instruction is presented and how much time he has to process the material. If he doesn't have the time, then he's always progressing with incomplete knowledge and in the parts where the curricula is designed as a ladder, with latter lessons dependent on mastery of earlier lessons, the kid just gets lost, lost, lost because his foundations are weak and crumbling.

Parents as well as students have to commit to longer school day, a strict discipline code, parental contact, and a half hour to an hour a day more homework than their peers.

Absolutely right. The idea is to swamp that kid, not give him a chance to be distracted. School all the damn time. Luckily this works in getting the kids to proficiency level, which is what we're after. That kid is definitely having less fun and freedom in his life than his public school peers, both in the bad schools and in the very good schools. He has to work twice as hard to get the same results as the normal and good students.

Kipp schools being a charter are state funded, enjoy federal grants in millions, and private donations. In may areas, their per student expenses are well above public school per student costs. Teachers in Kipp schools typically receive a salary that is higher than they would receive in neighboring public schools. I think Kipp schools are among the best charter schools offering real opportunity for economically disadvantaged students with drive and determination to succeed, although suspect they a realtively small percentage among their peers.

Scaling up KIPP creates some problems:

1. The charge of "that's not fair" will ring across the land when some kids are forced to go to school for longer school days, then on Saturdays while their friends are out playing, then for one extra month per year while their friends are enjoying summer break.
   
2. The charge of "that's not fair" from achievement-focused students and parents from wealthier neighborhoods who might fight for the same level of resources being devoted to their kids to help them actually accelerate and enter college at 14. Others may argue that it is unfair to spend more to educate some students, primarily racial minorities and that white and Asian kids are being short-changed by this scheme.
   
3. The liberals and racial leaders will have heart attacks when they see a racially segregated school system because you actually need to do that - having the kids go to the same schools would cause massive headaches - some kids and teachers are there for an extra 3 hours per day, the class schedules for high schools would be a nightmare, there would be no crossover from one stream to another, etc. The question here boils down to "Do you want the kids to achieve or do you want to maintain an integrated system? Pick one only."
   
4. The white parents whose kids are educationally deficient objecting about the fact that their kid is now having to attend a 90%-95% minority school and will try to get him bumped up into the normal-paced schools.

If these schools had to be supported by vouchers and payments from low income parents would they have the same record of success? I doubt it.

If this was scaled up the efficacy of the KIPP approach would diminish. Plenty of parents and plenty of kids just couldn't meet the standards. This drops us back to the "There is no solution" level. This assuming, of course, that state funding foots the bill. Remove generous state support and you reduce further the number of students who can be accommodated.

What Kipp School performance is showing us is that if we increase the number of hours of instruction by 40 to 67%, increase homework by 30 to 50%, require teachers to accept calls and emails from students after school hours, pay teachers more, and decrease the pupil to teacher ratio to 16:1, we will get better results with low performing students. I don't think this would be unexpected.

 

[Rikurzhen]

It's certainly looks like Kipp Schools are successful in improving performance. However, I have to wonder whether that's because they are basically working with students that are easier to teach and much more committed than their peers.

Yes the kids and parents are more committed but this isn't the key factor. That commitment and concern were always there, in fact they have to be present before the parents/student even decide to apply to KIPP lotteries. If the concern and commitment are present during the child's enrollment in public school how come they don't translate into improved performance? The reason the kid is flailing about in public school has little to do with his own commitment or his parent's oversight - it has to do with how instruction is presented and how much time he has to process the material. If he doesn't have the time, then he's always progressing with incomplete knowledge and in the parts where the curricula is designed as a ladder, with latter lessons dependent on mastery of earlier lessons, the kid just gets lost, lost, lost because his foundations are weak and crumbling.



Absolutely right. The idea is to swamp that kid, not give him a chance to be distracted. School all the damn time. Luckily this works in getting the kids to proficiency level, which is what we're after. That kid is definitely having less fun and freedom in his life than his public school peers, both in the bad schools and in the very good schools. He has to work twice as hard to get the same results as the normal and good students.



Scaling up KIPP creates some problems:

1. The charge of "that's not fair" will ring across the land when some kids are forced to go to school for longer school days, then on Saturdays while their friends are out playing, then for one extra month per year while their friends are enjoying summer break.
   
2. The charge of "that's not fair" from achievement-focused students and parents from wealthier neighborhoods who might fight for the same level of resources being devoted to their kids to help them actually accelerate and enter college at 14. Others may argue that it is unfair to spend more to educate some students, primarily racial minorities and that white and Asian kids are being short-changed by this scheme.
   
3. The liberals and racial leaders will have heart attacks when they see a racially segregated school system because you actually need to do that - having the kids go to the same schools would cause massive headaches - some kids and teachers are there for an extra 3 hours per day, the class schedules for high schools would be a nightmare, there would be no crossover from one stream to another, etc. The question here boils down to "Do you want the kids to achieve or do you want to maintain an integrated system? Pick one only."
   
4. The white parents whose kids are educationally deficient objecting about the fact that their kid is now having to attend a 90%-95% minority school and will try to get him bumped up into the normal-paced schools.

If these schools had to be supported by vouchers and payments from low income parents would they have the same record of success? I doubt it.

If this was scaled up the efficacy of the KIPP approach would diminish. Plenty of parents and plenty of kids just couldn't meet the standards. This drops us back to the "There is no solution" level. This assuming, of course, that state funding foots the bill. Remove generous state support and you reduce further the number of students who can be accommodated.

What Kipp School performance is showing us is that if we increase the number of hours of instruction by 40 to 67%, increase homework by 30 to 50%, require teachers to accept calls and emails from students after school hours, pay teachers more, and decrease the pupil to teacher ratio to 16:1, we will get better results with low performing students. I don't think this would be unexpected.

Now scale that up. Do you think that the hood rats who hate school are going to go along with that, how about the kids with meth-head parents.

This requires low performing students to actually work far harder than normal students. Do you think that this is going to work if scaled up to all of society?

The KEY point with KIPP's approach is that its comprehensive. Teachers don't like that. They like to pick and choose. Teachers love small class sizes but, alone, that has little effect. What works is the "ALL-IN" philosophy, that kids entire life has to be dedicated to learning. There's no time for sports and having fun with friends.

 

[Unkotare]

So what?

Are you saying that "part or all" of a family moves to another fucking country so Johnny can learn how to .....what?

Prepare for college.

Exactly what country doesn't have colleges, so entire families must move to the USA so their kids can attend public school, so they can go to college?

American colleges and universities are the best in the world. I'm telling you what IS happening, whether you 'like' it or not.

 

[Samson]

Prepare for college.

Exactly what country doesn't have colleges, so entire families must move to the USA so their kids can attend public school, so they can go to college?

American colleges and universities are the best in the world. I'm telling you what IS happening, whether you 'like' it or not.

Yet you cannot seem to discuss particulars.



More Bullshit.

****yawn****

 

[Unkotare]

Exactly what country doesn't have colleges, so entire families must move to the USA so their kids can attend public school, so they can go to college?

American colleges and universities are the best in the world. I'm telling you what IS happening, whether you 'like' it or not.

Yet you cannot seem to discuss particulars.

Such as?

 

[Samson]

American colleges and universities are the best in the world. I'm telling you what IS happening, whether you 'like' it or not.

Yet you cannot seem to discuss particulars.

Such as?

You'd need to actually read my post:

Exactly what country doesn't have colleges, so entire families must move to the USA so their kids can attend public school, so they can go to college?

Try reading.

Then:

Let's take Mexico for example.

How have you been able to identify the reason Mexicans need to enter the UAS not in the potential to improve their personal wealth, but rather, the potential to improve their children's education

This is as much spoon feeding I'll tolerate for the next month, so don't bother asking for more.

 

[Unkotare]

Yet you cannot seem to discuss particulars.

Such as?

You'd need to actually read my post:

Exactly what country doesn't have colleges, so entire families must move to the USA so their kids can attend public school, so they can go to college?

Try reading.

Then:

Let's take Mexico for example.

How have you been able to identify the reason Mexicans need to enter the UAS not in the potential to improve their personal wealth, but rather, the potential to improve their children's education

I didn't specify Mexicans, you did (for some reason). Did you miss the part where I told you American universities are the best in the world?

 

[Samson]

Such as?

You'd need to actually read my post:

Exactly what country doesn't have colleges, so entire families must move to the USA so their kids can attend public school, so they can go to college?

Try reading.

Then:

Let's take Mexico for example.

How have you been able to identify the reason Mexicans need to enter the UAS not in the potential to improve their personal wealth, but rather, the potential to improve their children's education

I didn't specify Mexicans, you did (for some reason). Did you miss the part where I told you American universities are the best in the world?

No I mentioned Mexico as a possibility, since whatever mythical place in your imaginary world remains unidentified.

Did you mean somewhere else?

If so then where?

Spoon feeding you gets boring.

 

[Unkotare]

No I mentioned Mexico as a possibility, since whatever mythical place in your imaginary world remains unidentified.

Did you mean somewhere else?

I did in fact specify the few countries brought up as examples of developed nations that someone imagined wouldn't send their children here to be educated, and more generally I referred to any and all nations. Go ahead and throw in countries like China and South Korea that people like to hold up as examples of a 'superior' education to that found in America. Many, many, many people from both nations compete vigorously to enroll their kids in American schools.

 

[DriftingSand]

White Students No Longer Majority in Schools

For the first time ever, U.S. public schools are projected this fall to have more minority students than non-Hispanic whites enrolled, a shift largely fueled by growth in the number of Hispanic children.

Non-Hispanic white students are still expected to be the largest racial group in the public schools this year at 49.8 percent. But the National Center for Education Statistics says minority students, when added together, will now make up the majority.

About one-quarter of the minority students are Hispanic, 15 percent are black and 5 percent are Asian and Pacific Islanders. Biracial students and Native Americans make up a smaller share of the minority student population.

Education Secretary Arne Duncan called the changing population a seminal moment in education. "We can't talk about other people's children. These are our children," he said.

Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com White Students No Longer Majority in Schools

This sucks. The report a few years ago said that we had 5 years before children under 18 becomes majority non-white clearly is wrong. Wrong because children pre-public school are even higher non-white percentages. Get ready for the shit to hit fan.

Ahhh ... but they're a majority in many, many home schools. Public schools have lowered their standards over the years to accommodate the less intelligent as a means to make them "feel good" about themselves. Thus, homeschooling has become a form of higher education. If I had school-age kids, public schools (for the most part) would hardly be an option.

 

[Rikurzhen]

What do we have here?

An old, suicidal, depressed "ex" meth-addict implying that he possesses superior intellect than others...

Jumpin' Jehosaphat, you are a moron. You're so transparent. It's clear to everyone that you INTENDED to launch a personal attack and because you're a moron, you thought you could cover the attack by making it part of some kind of hypocrisy charge. Where you failed was in executing this maneuver.

DriftingSand's abuse history has NOTHING to do with his level of intelligence.

The issue in debate is to evaluate the truth or falsity of a statement or to evaluate its logical structure. You did neither, you simply attempted to smear your opponent. Note I don't claim that you achieved your goal because a person's failings tell us nothing about whether a statement they made was true or false or whether it was logically coherent or not.

Is there no level of embarrassment that people like you cannot ignore or wish away?

And if you're so keen on claiming the moral high ground by stomping on people who've had drug abuse issues, doesn't it bother you that you're a lesser being that them. You're attacking people for their mistakes in life and that surely doesn't put you high on any moral ladder, in fact, it puts you down at the very bottom.

 

[Flopper]

White Students No Longer Majority in Schools

For the first time ever, U.S. public schools are projected this fall to have more minority students than non-Hispanic whites enrolled, a shift largely fueled by growth in the number of Hispanic children.

Non-Hispanic white students are still expected to be the largest racial group in the public schools this year at 49.8 percent. But the National Center for Education Statistics says minority students, when added together, will now make up the majority.

About one-quarter of the minority students are Hispanic, 15 percent are black and 5 percent are Asian and Pacific Islanders. Biracial students and Native Americans make up a smaller share of the minority student population.

Education Secretary Arne Duncan called the changing population a seminal moment in education. "We can't talk about other people's children. These are our children," he said.

Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com White Students No Longer Majority in Schools

This sucks. The report a few years ago said that we had 5 years before children under 18 becomes majority non-white clearly is wrong. Wrong because children pre-public school are even higher non-white percentages. Get ready for the shit to hit fan.

Ahhh ... but they're a majority in many, many home schools. Public schools have lowered their standards over the years to accommodate the less intelligent as a means to make them "feel good" about themselves. Thus, homeschooling has become a form of higher education. If I had school-age kids, public schools (for the most part) would hardly be an option.

On average, standards as measured by standardize test have improved little over the years but is that really a bad thing. In 1960, 27% of our students dropped out of school. Today it's about 8%. That means we have millions more low end achievers staying in school and getting an education which is great but it also means the're dragging down standardized test averages. Our best students are scoring higher but we have so many students at the bottom end of the scale staying in school, there doesn't appear to be much improvement which isn't so.

Today, more young people are taking high-level courses, fewer of them are dropping
out, math and science scores are on the rise, and more students are
entering college after high school. A University of Michigan study found that time spent each week on homework had increased from 2 hours 38 minutes to 3 hours 58 minutes since 1981.

 

[Rikurzhen]

White Students No Longer Majority in Schools


Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com White Students No Longer Majority in Schools

This sucks. The report a few years ago said that we had 5 years before children under 18 becomes majority non-white clearly is wrong. Wrong because children pre-public school are even higher non-white percentages. Get ready for the shit to hit fan.

Ahhh ... but they're a majority in many, many home schools. Public schools have lowered their standards over the years to accommodate the less intelligent as a means to make them "feel good" about themselves. Thus, homeschooling has become a form of higher education. If I had school-age kids, public schools (for the most part) would hardly be an option.

On average, standards as measured by standardize test have improved little over the years but is that really a bad thing.

It is if you believe that teacher promises of "more money, better outcomes" are true. We've thrown boatloads of money at education because of teacher promises and teachers aren't living up to their promises. (For the moment ignore the fact that teachers can't actually deliver on what they promise). All that money is wasted. That's bad. There are better uses for that money.

Today, more young people are taking high-level courses, fewer of them are dropping out, math and science scores are on the rise, and more students are
entering college after high school. A University of Michigan study found that time spent each week on homework had increased from 2 hours 38 minutes to 3 hours 58 minutes since 1981.

Where are you sourcing the claim that math and science scores are on the rise?

More students entering college is a mostly meaningless metric.

Students doing more homework is also a meaningless metric. What counts are objective measures of content mastery, not time spent jumping through hoops.

 

[Flopper]

Ahhh ... but they're a majority in many, many home schools. Public schools have lowered their standards over the years to accommodate the less intelligent as a means to make them "feel good" about themselves. Thus, homeschooling has become a form of higher education. If I had school-age kids, public schools (for the most part) would hardly be an option.

On average, standards as measured by standardize test have improved little over the years but is that really a bad thing.

It is if you believe that teacher promises of "more money, better outcomes" are true. We've thrown boatloads of money at education because of teacher promises and teachers aren't living up to their promises. (For the moment ignore the fact that teachers can't actually deliver on what they promise). All that money is wasted. That's bad. There are better uses for that money.

Today, more young people are taking high-level courses, fewer of them are dropping out, math and science scores are on the rise, and more students are
entering college after high school. A University of Michigan study found that time spent each week on homework had increased from 2 hours 38 minutes to 3 hours 58 minutes since 1981.

Where are you sourcing the claim that math and science scores are on the rise?

More students entering college is a mostly meaningless metric.

Students doing more homework is also a meaningless metric. What counts are objective measures of content mastery, not time spent jumping through hoops.

No doubt if we had a dropout rate of 27% as it was fifty years ago, test score averages would be significantly better. Maybe you feel that if we had more low achievers dropping out of school and not dragging down test score averages, that would be a good thing. I don't.

 

[bianco]

Yes, not long now until America is no longer a White majority nation.
Then the fun, and descent will start in earnest.

 

[Unkotare]

Students doing more homework is also a meaningless metric. What counts are objective measures of content mastery, not time spent jumping through hoops.

That's like saying you want your team to win but you don't want them to practice or hit the weight room.

 

[Unkotare]

Yes, not long now until America is no longer a White majority nation.

What business is it of yours? You're not an American. Go worry about your sandbox and leave the US to your betters.

 

[JT8691]

My Hispanic students tend to be the most well behaved and the most respectful. And it's not even close.