White House, Dems Finalize Deal for Automaker Bailout

[sealybobo]

It's a bail-out.

Saying Libertarians are like the GOP is like saying Libertarians are like the Democrats. They aren't even in the same league.

The parts of the Libertarian party that I like seem oftly similar to progressive thinking and the parts I hate about the libertarians sound like the GOP.

Every man for himself. That's not America.

Abolishing the IRS and Federal Reserve? Hell yea!

Notice how the GOP made Ron Paul out to be a nut and/or ignored him and his popularity? The GOP doesn't like anything about the Libertarian party. The Dems do. At least my liberal talk show hosts like a lot of what the Libertarians have to say. Air America has them on all the time. Bob Barr. Bill Press is buddies with Bob Barr. Air America Radio.

So just remember, the GOP adamently denies the Libertarian party. Maybe they both say smaller government, but the GOP is just straight up lying. They grew the GOV.

 

[Southpaw]

1. I think history will properly judge the current administration. The facts ar already coming out. And we don't even have our US attorney's appointed to enforce sobpoenas. Wait till Rove and Harriet Meyers have to actually show up!

2. I'm familiar enough to know when we're being screwed. Robber Barons are back!

3. Tom Delay, Jack Abramoff, Dick Chaney, George Bush, Paul Wolfowitz, The Federal Reserve, the Robber Baron's are at fault. The Top 1%! It's class warfare. They do it every so often. Guilded Age, Great Depression, during every war. Then a guy like FDR or Obama or Kennedy come in and fix the mess the rich caused. And every so often we revolt. Once the farmers did it, then the Jimmy Hoffa unions, the piece and love children did it during Nam and now the Obamamanics like me just took back the country. Now jobs will stop going overseas and the Democrats will prop back up the middle class. Without the government, there is no middle class. That's our government, but they aren't my corporations. And this is our country, not the banks or auto companies. I'm for protecting jobs, good paying jobs. I'm for dealing with walmart. Unionize it if the employees want.

And I'm for taxing corporations, especially Honda and Toyota.

And taking away the tax breaks bush gave companies going overseas, because they paid him to pass those laws. Did I say Bush? I meant the GOP leadership. Entirely! And to not know who fucked you is retarded. Not to be rude, but you are retarded.

4. No, Republicans lost seats. LOTS of them. And Democrats kept their seats, because people, at least most people, get it at this point. We know who fucked up.

5. The GOP hasn't been practicing what it's been preaching for 20 years now. Daddy Bush didn't keep one campaign promise, then ran with the same 10 campaign promises his second term against Clinton. They think you're stupid. Guess what? I agree. Do you know who Lee Atwater is? He knows you better than you know yourself. Look him up. He's Rove's mentor.

You haven't backed up a single claim yet. All you've done is blather talking points and jump around without any substantiation.

Is this a pattern I should expect to continue? Because if it is, I'm not going to waste my time.

 

[xsited1]

The parts of the Libertarian party that I like seem oftly similar to progressive thinking and the parts I hate about the libertarians sound like the GOP.

Every man for himself. That's not America.

Abolishing the IRS and Federal Reserve? Hell yea!

Notice how the GOP made Ron Paul out to be a nut and/or ignored him and his popularity? The GOP doesn't like anything about the Libertarian party. The Dems do. At least my liberal talk show hosts like a lot of what the Libertarians have to say. Air America has them on all the time. Bob Barr. Bill Press is buddies with Bob Barr. Air America Radio.

So just remember, the GOP adamently denies the Libertarian party. Maybe they both say smaller government, but the GOP is just straight up lying. They grew the GOV.

Libertarians don't believe in 'every man for himself', but I completely agree with everything else you said. I actually didn't like Bob Barr as much as previous Libertarian candidates because he was too much like a Republican, although he was better than the other candidates. I'm hoping the GOP dies in the next few years. The world has had enough of their garbage.

 

[sealybobo]

You haven't backed up a single claim yet. All you've done is blather talking points and jump around without any substantiation.

Is this a pattern I should expect to continue? Because if it is, I'm not going to waste my time.

Don't. I run into a jerk like you every day. No way I'm going to waste my time each time proving to you what should be obvious.

It's like back in highschool. I beat one guy up and then I had to fight his friend, then his friend, then the next guy, then the next.....

McCain would have won if I was wrong. You and everyone else knows it.

 

[sealybobo]

Libertarians don't believe in 'every man for himself', but I completely agree with everything else you said. I actually didn't like Bob Barr as much as previous Libertarian candidates because he was too much like a Republican, although he was better than the other candidates. I'm hoping the GOP dies in the next few years. The world has had enough of their garbage.

Here is someone who knows what they are saying. I may not agree with everything they say, but at least they get who did all this to us.

And you neo freaks want us to forget and move on, and continue accepting your bullshit/spin.

Come up with some new spin at least!!!

Or give it a couple months/years. You BLEW IT!!!

PS. Leave Obama alone with this Illinois Governor thing. We remember right away Clinton was being hounded by the GOP over some Jennifer Flowers thing? And 6 years later it was all over a Blowjob? Come on!!!! Please don't do it again for the next 8 years.

 

[editec]

Libertarians don't believe in 'every man for himself',

They don't? Well I reckon the sane one's don't. so I mostly agree.

But when we have people who tell us point blank that they're okay with people starving on the streets because they're losers?

Well, I gotta tell you Xsited, that doesn't do sane libertarianism much good.

The moment I read some person telling me that the millions of workers who have lost their jobs in the last year or so are just losers, and if but only they're studied something else in school?

Well libertarianism go fuck itself, know what I mean?

That I got mine get yours, Jack, nonsense gets people killed, you know.

There are no gates in any gated community tall enough to save any of us, if enough Americans are disenfranchised by the system.

It keeps getting worse, and many of you not only thinks that's okay, you seem to take a delight in the suffering of your fellow Americans.

Such shortsightness is a disease among those who often identify themselves as libertarians.

Remember, Xisted, it isn't just libertarians who have guns.

 

[Southpaw]

Don't. I run into a jerk like you every day. No way I'm going to waste my time each time proving to you what should be obvious.

It's like back in highschool. I beat one guy up and then I had to fight his friend, then his friend, then the next guy, then the next.....

McCain would have won if I was wrong. You and everyone else knows it.

McCain ran into a perfect storm against him, was a terrible candidate, ran a lousy campaign and STILL only lost the popular vote by 4%.

The fact remains that you haven't backed any of your statements. I have. When I called on you that, you shifted the topic or insulted me. That's fine; it just shows that you know your arguments don't hold water.

 

[sealybobo]

McCain ran into a perfect storm against him, was a terrible candidate, ran a lousy campaign and STILL only lost the popular vote by 4%.

The fact remains that you haven't backed any of your statements. I have. When I called on you that, you shifted the topic or insulted me. That's fine; it just shows that you know your arguments don't hold water.

You have?

 

[Southpaw]

You have?

Keep on

 

[NOBama]

Remember, Xisted, it isn't just libertarians who have guns.

Thing about making threats like that is - you better be willing to use that gun before the guy you're tyring to steal from does. IE:

[youtube]TkonhSTRlSs[/youtube]

 

[Paulie]

The parts of the Libertarian party that I like seem oftly similar to progressive thinking and the parts I hate about the libertarians sound like the GOP.

Every man for himself. That's not America.

Abolishing the IRS and Federal Reserve? Hell yea!

Notice how the GOP made Ron Paul out to be a nut and/or ignored him and his popularity? The GOP doesn't like anything about the Libertarian party. The Dems do. At least my liberal talk show hosts like a lot of what the Libertarians have to say. Air America has them on all the time. Bob Barr. Bill Press is buddies with Bob Barr. Air America Radio.

So just remember, the GOP adamently denies the Libertarian party. Maybe they both say smaller government, but the GOP is just straight up lying. They grew the GOV.

Probably because the LP is the one party that could actually threaten the GOP if conservatives ever woke the fuck up from their slumber.

 

[sealybobo]

You haven't backed up a single claim yet. All you've done is blather talking points and jump around without any substantiation.

Is this a pattern I should expect to continue? Because if it is, I'm not going to waste my time.

Ok, so I go google to see who's been running Freddy Mack the last 8 years and I found:

McBride's career spans two decades and includes leadership roles with two Fortune 100 companies as well as key positions with the Administration of former President George H. W. Bush. In the Bush Administration, McBride served as assistant to the President and director of White House Management and Administration, where he managed the daily operations of the White House as well as served as a senior advisor to the President on policy initiatives and political agenda. During his tenure, he also held the positions of assistant secretary of Commerce for Trade Development and special assistant to the President. He also worked for a number of years in the Office of the Vice President of the United States.

http://www.freddiemac.com/news/archives/corporate/2004/20041220_mcbride.html

 

[sealybobo]

Probably because the LP is the one party that could actually threaten the GOP if conservatives ever woke the fuck up from their slumber.

Actually, the Liberal/progressive/democratic party is not bad. You've just swallowed the BS from the right over 30 years and you know what they say about old habits.

So the new generation will take over. They don't even remember Jimmy Carter. But they do remember Bush.

Bush might have cost the GOP a generation worth of elections.

 

[Paulie]

Actually, the Liberal/progressive/democratic party is not bad. You've just swallowed the BS from the right over 30 years and you know what they say about old habits.

So the new generation will take over. They don't even remember Jimmy Carter. But they do remember Bush.

Bush might have cost the GOP a generation worth of elections.

I haven't swallowed BS from anyone for 30 years, I'm not even that old yet. You're doing what you do a lot of around here. You already know I'm not a typical right wingnut, we've been through that more than once Sealy.

I don't like the Dem party of today. I like the platform it ran on a couple decades ago, but not the current one. You still have a couple members of the party who haven't completely lost their minds, the Blue Dogs.

 

[Southpaw]

Ok, so I go google to see who's been running Freddy Mack the last 8 years and I found:

McBride's career spans two decades and includes leadership roles with two Fortune 100 companies as well as key positions with the Administration of former President George H. W. Bush. In the Bush Administration, McBride served as assistant to the President and director of White House Management and Administration, where he managed the daily operations of the White House as well as served as a senior advisor to the President on policy initiatives and political agenda. During his tenure, he also held the positions of assistant secretary of Commerce for Trade Development and special assistant to the President. He also worked for a number of years in the Office of the Vice President of the United States.

Freddie Mac Appoints Timothy McBride to Head Government Relations Division. - News Archive - Freddie Mac

You are really making this too easy for me.

Read the first paragraph of your own link. The guy was hired in 2005. That's hardly the 'last 8 years.' Furthermore, if you think these problems haven't been brewing for more than 8 years, you just don't understand the economy.

Read more.

Bloomberg.com: Opinion

FOXNews.com - Barack Obama's Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac Connection - John Gibson Radio

Democrats Were Wrong on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - Michael Barone (usnews.com)

Seventeen. That's how many times, according to this White House statement (hat tip Gateway Pundit), that the Bush administration has called for tighter regulation of the government-sponsored enterprises (GSEs) Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Congress has cooperated only once. In spring 2007, as House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank likes to point out, the House did pass a bill in response.

Thanks Barney but that's too little, too late.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

They don't? Well I reckon the sane one's don't. so I mostly agree.

But when we have people who tell us point blank that they're okay with people starving on the streets because they're losers?

Well, I gotta tell you Xsited, that doesn't do sane libertarianism much good.

The moment I read some person telling me that the millions of workers who have lost their jobs in the last year or so are just losers, and if but only they're studied something else in school?

Well libertarianism go fuck itself, know what I mean?

That I got mine get yours, Jack, nonsense gets people killed, you know.

There are no gates in any gated community tall enough to save any of us, if enough Americans are disenfranchised by the system.

It keeps getting worse, and many of you not only thinks that's okay, you seem to take a delight in the suffering of your fellow Americans.

Such shortsightness is a disease among those who often identify themselves as libertarians.

Remember, Xisted, it isn't just libertarians who have guns.

We don't believe in "every man for himself." We believe in private individuals and private institutions helping out their fellow man. There's obviously nothing wrong with that, and we, as a majority, support that fully.

We do not in any way, however, support the government forcing one group of people to help another group. That's what these bailouts represent, and it's morally and Constitutionally wrong.

Are there Libertarians that are uncaring about the problems of others? Sure, you can't expect every person to be a caring individual. Being a Libertarian doesn't necessarily make you a decent person.

But I think the problem is that people are confusing our zeal in arguing against these bailouts, as us not caring about the working class. It's simply that we have a different opinion as to what will better help the people of America and our economy as a whole.

We're not arguing against these bailouts because we want the workers of the Big 3 to lose their jobs, it's just that we believe it will cause more problems if you do bail them out. I used to work at a Chevy dealership, and lost my job when it went out of business. I can relate to their situation, but I still believe that a bailout is wrong on many different levels.

I hope this clears up where we stand.

 

[RodISHI]

What do people suggest?

If we have to give money, I would like to see money given to start ups like the places in Silicon valley that are making electric cars like this:

Tesla Motors

Build up a manufacturing base for the electric car industry, and help California's economy at the same time .

Another good idea is to have the oil companies, who profited from the low mileage of recent cars, put up the 14-35 billion. For them it is pocket change.

I think that is an excellent idea. Although I would not let go of the big three. They do not just make cars.

Rural America depends on pickups, trucks and trains. When someone in rural America buys a pickup it is usually because they use the truck for work, not just the hype of being macho.

In that the big three serves the country in jobs and by building these pickups & trucks.

I do not see a problem with oversight when loans are made to big companies with public money.

 

[Paulie]

We don't believe in "every man for himself." We believe in private individuals and private institutions helping out their fellow man. There's obviously nothing wrong with that, and we, as a majority, support that fully.

We do not in any way, however, support the government forcing one group of people to help another group. That's what these bailouts represent, and it's morally and Constitutionally wrong.

Are there Libertarians that are uncaring about the problems of others? Sure, you can't expect every person to be a caring individual. Being a Libertarian doesn't necessarily make you a decent person.

But I think the problem is that people are confusing our zeal in arguing against these bailouts, as us not caring about the working class. It's simply that we have a different opinion as to what will better help the people of America and our economy as a whole.

We're not arguing against these bailouts because we want the workers of the Big 3 to lose their jobs, it's just that we believe it will cause more problems if you do bail them out. I used to work at a Chevy dealership, and lost my job when it went out of business. I can relate to their situation, but I still believe that a bailout is wrong on many different levels.

I hope this clears up where we stand.

It won't clear it up for some people, because some people are incapable of contemplating or even comprehending logic. But well said, nonetheless.

 

[sealybobo]

I haven't swallowed BS from anyone for 30 years, I'm not even that old yet. You're doing what you do a lot of around here. You already know I'm not a typical right wingnut, we've been through that more than once Sealy.

I don't like the Dem party of today. I like the platform it ran on a couple decades ago, but not the current one. You still have a couple members of the party who haven't completely lost their minds, the Blue Dogs.

i knew you'd take that personally. I wasn't attacking you personally. I'm referring to any negative feelings people have about the Democrats today. It's mostly based on lies, or facts from back when Carter was president. All the Dems are weak on national defense stuff. Complete BS.

Thanks to Rush Limbaugh or Bill O'reilly or Glen Beck or Hannity or Ann Coulter.

If you don't realize it, that means the GOP did a really GOOD subtle job at slandering us. How about Pat Buchanan. There are books written about this stuff.

Here is a great op ed on what I'm talking about:

ThomHartmann.com - Progressives and Democrats: Assert Your Brand!

 

[WillowTree]

They don't? Well I reckon the sane one's don't. so I mostly agree.

But when we have people who tell us point blank that they're okay with people starving on the streets because they're losers?

Well, I gotta tell you Xsited, that doesn't do sane libertarianism much good.

The moment I read some person telling me that the millions of workers who have lost their jobs in the last year or so are just losers, and if but only they're studied something else in school?

Well libertarianism go fuck itself, know what I mean?

That I got mine get yours, Jack, nonsense gets people killed, you know.

There are no gates in any gated community tall enough to save any of us, if enough Americans are disenfranchised by the system.

It keeps getting worse, and many of you not only thinks that's okay, you seem to take a delight in the suffering of your fellow Americans.

Such shortsightness is a disease among those who often identify themselves as libertarians.

Remember, Xisted, it isn't just libertarians who have guns.

well, if I didn't know any better I'd suspect you just threatened revolution. cause you don't get your way everyday?? really?