White House, Dems Finalize Deal for Automaker Bailout

[WillowTree]

Ford had huge profits in 1999. What happened in 2000? Bush stole the White House.

And 43 other states are hurting badly. Why?

Bushanomics. You know that.

explain in detail how Bush ruined the auto industry.. I'm really interested..

 

[Southpaw]

See, you don't realize this was all caused by the GOP from 2000-2006. All the facts are coming out now about exactly who/how the economy got fucked. Yes Freddy & Fanny had something to do with it. Who was in charge of them from 2003-2005? If you look, you'll see it was Bush appointees/buddies.

So now the Big 3 need a loan, not a gimme, just to get them through this rough time. They wouldn't have needed it had the Bushies not raised gas to $4 and forced SUV's to become unpopular.

Or do you still doubt they were gouging us when gas went up past $4? Wake up.

Anyways, the GOP is gone. We have GOP'ers who lost in November voting on this. THey are bitter. THey want to finish ruining the American middle class.

You are just still in shock. 8 years of being mind fucked by the GOP thru the media. Relax, the Dems have it all under control. The Big 3 will be back, unfair trade will be fixed, and your job will be safe.

And again, did you bitch this much when Bush demanded $750billion or else? Probably not. Or, your dumb ass blames the Democrats for the bank bailout, doesn't it?

Educate yourself.

New Agency Proposed to Oversee Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae - New York Times

I have opposed all the bailouts. You don't reward inefficient losers and expect to be competitive.

 

[WillowTree]

See, you don't realize this was all caused by the GOP from 2000-2006. All the facts are coming out now about exactly who/how the economy got fucked. Yes Freddy & Fanny had something to do with it. Who was in charge of them from 2003-2005? If you look, you'll see it was Bush appointees/buddies.

So now the Big 3 need a loan, not a gimme, just to get them through this rough time. They wouldn't have needed it had the Bushies not raised gas to $4 and forced SUV's to become unpopular.

Or do you still doubt they were gouging us when gas went up past $4? Wake up.

Anyways, the GOP is gone. We have GOP'ers who lost in November voting on this. THey are bitter. THey want to finish ruining the American middle class.

You are just still in shock. 8 years of being mind fucked by the GOP thru the media. Relax, the Dems have it all under control. The Big 3 will be back, unfair trade will be fixed, and your job will be safe.

And again, did you bitch this much when Bush demanded $750billion or else? Probably not. Or, your dumb ass blames the Democrats for the bank bailout, doesn't it?

you are not a rational human being.. you need to go back to work.

 

[NOBama]

Your tiny little brain just can't understand it.

That, coming from someone who's brainless. Okay LOL!

Here's an excerpt form another of my posts on this site:

• "Encourage companies to root out and terminate unproductive employees regardless of sex or race, they are leaches that destroy corporations from small to large."

Sound like anybody you know?

 

[WillowTree]

Educate yourself.

New Agency Proposed to Oversee Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae - New York Times

I have opposed all the bailouts. You don't reward inefficient losers and expect to be competitive.

 

[sealybobo]

Bush has had two economic 'occurrences' on his watch. The tech bubble and the gas/credit crisis.

The tech bubble was caused by the advent of a new form of commerce in which individual investors got caught up in the 'there's always a bigger fool somewhere' philosophy of stock purchasing. Clearly not Bush's fault.

The gas/credit crisis was caused by exploding world demand for oil (China's doubled from 2000-2007) combined with a refusal on the left to drill domestically (thanks Mr. It-Will-Take-10-Years Clinton) and reduced regulations on the housing market. That, incidentally, was championed by WJC and continued by guys like Dodd and Frank. Bush tried to implement oversight on FNM and FRE in 2003 but was shot down... by the Dems.

I'll grant you that Bush has spent like a drunken sailor on leave in a whorehouse while cutting taxes which is a great way to run up the deficit. I'll grant you that some of his fiscal policies devalued the dollar which hit us even harder at the gas pumps since gas is a global economy.

However, the big factors in these two economic whatevers are clearly not tied to Bush.

Your first paragraph can be summed up by one word. Bush's deregulations.

The tech bubble recession was worsened by 9-11. And worse than 9-11 was Bush's policies after 9-11. And since he was warned about Al Queda and did nothing, and that worsened the recession, it is his fault.

And if you don't blame Bush and his buddies for the gas prices, well then I don't know what to say. I can't provide you with any emails from Bush to the Oil companies where he told them to gouge us, but then again, Rove had all White House emails deleted, which is illegal, so I guess we'll never know.

But for you not to see Bush & Chaney's energy policies fucked us, or you don't think it was on purpose, then......

So what happened to the world's demand for oil? We still demand it. They lowered it because the Democrats would regulate them if they didn't lower gas on their own. If they get too greedy again next year, we might re-regulate them again.

Anyways, you gave me a very nice conservative reply. I buy half of it. The rest, not buying it.

Bush is responsible for everything. Not just bush, but the entire GOP. That's why they were run out of office in 2008 and 2008.

Remember last year you guys kept pointing out that Congress' overall approval ratings were really low? Well notice how all the Dem encumbents kept their jobs. Yea, that says a lot. That tells me most people get it. Clearly you don't get it, nor will you ever. That's ok. The Dems will screw up and one day you'll win again.

But give it up. The last 8 years proved why Republicans should never be in charge. They only represent the top 10% in this country, and corporations, and foreign interest.

And the sooner you stop buying into their stupid god/gays and gun arguments, the better off we will all be.

Are you a worker/labor? Well then stand up for yourself before it's too late.

They lied to us for 8 years. They were wrong for 8 years. So now you want to give me the GOP response to why the economy sucks? Sorry, but you are wrong again.

 

[sealybobo]

That, coming from someone who's brainless. Okay LOL!

Here's an excerpt form another of my posts on this site:

• "Encourage companies to root out and terminate unproductive employees regardless of sex or race, they are leaches that destroy corporations from small to large."

Sound like anybody you know?

You?

I hate labor that is anti labor.

So was John McCain wrong? He said the fundamentals of our economy were strong, and that WE are the fundamentals of the economy.

Was he wrong or lying?

I love it that you GOP are anti American labor.

Reminds me of when America cared about abortion and we were on the side of killing babies. Hard argument to sell. LOL.

So tell us more about why us Americans aren't worth what we make now?

You're ok with lowering our wages so you can get cheaper stuff from China?

What do you do for a living?

 

[sealybobo]

you are not a rational human being.. you need to go back to work.

I'll buy into letting GM & Chrysler fail but ONLY if we take the $750 Billion back from the banks.

But you dirty southerners are not going to fuck the North just because we won the civil war.

And took your slaves away.

Traitors to the middle class.

It'll be too late before you wake up. That I'm certain of.

 

[WillowTree]

You?

I hate labor that is anti labor.

So was John McCain wrong? He said the fundamentals of our economy were strong, and that WE are the fundamentals of the economy.

Was he wrong or lying?

I love it that you GOP are anti American labor.

Reminds me of when America cared about abortion and we were on the side of killing babies. Hard argument to sell. LOL.

So tell us more about why us Americans aren't worth what we make now?

You're ok with lowering our wages so you can get cheaper stuff from China?

What do you do for a living?

you obviously don't labor,, you play! you want pay for play?

 

[WillowTree]

I'll buy into letting GM & Chrysler fail but ONLY if we take the $750 Billion back from the banks.

But you dirty southerners are not going to fuck the North just because we won the civil war.

And took your slaves away.

Traitors to the middle class.

It'll be too late before you wake up. That I'm certain of.

I love it when yer pissed.. all Toyota has to do is make a tiny little car and yer goose is cooked..

 

[sealybobo]

explain in detail how Bush ruined the auto industry.. I'm really interested..

High oil prices made the Big 3's best sellers unsellable.

He let foreign companies in and gave them federal $ to help them set up shop.

How many people lost jobs during Bush's rule? How can they buy anything?

People who lose their jobs also lose their homes.

Deregulations.

 

[sealybobo]

you obviously don't labor,, you play! you want pay for play?

No. Obama doesn't labor either. But he cares about labor.

Some rich people care about the poor, like John Kerry.

And some are assholes, like you and Dick Chaney, Rush and O'Reilly & don't forget Hannity.

 

[sealybobo]

Bush has had two economic 'occurrences' on his watch. The tech bubble and the gas/credit crisis.

The tech bubble was caused by the advent of a new form of commerce in which individual investors got caught up in the 'there's always a bigger fool somewhere' philosophy of stock purchasing. Clearly not Bush's fault.

The gas/credit crisis was caused by exploding world demand for oil (China's doubled from 2000-2007) combined with a refusal on the left to drill domestically (thanks Mr. It-Will-Take-10-Years Clinton) and reduced regulations on the housing market. That, incidentally, was championed by WJC and continued by guys like Dodd and Frank. Bush tried to implement oversight on FNM and FRE in 2003 but was shot down... by the Dems.

I'll grant you that Bush has spent like a drunken sailor on leave in a whorehouse while cutting taxes which is a great way to run up the deficit. I'll grant you that some of his fiscal policies devalued the dollar which hit us even harder at the gas pumps since gas is a global economy.

However, the big factors in these two economic whatevers are clearly not tied to Bush.

And the last "economic downturn" nearly as bad as Bush's 2 was 1992. That's why we voted his worthless father out of office.

If Jeb ever wins, I'm leaving the country. It'll prove Americans are some of the dumbest people on earth.

 

[WillowTree]

High oil prices made the Big 3's best sellers unsellable. and how many years ago were the big three warned that smaller more fuel effecient cars needed? It's the Dems who want 10 bucks/gal gasoline.
He let foreign companies in and gave them federal $ to help them set up shop. No,, Clinton signed the Free Trade Agreement.. the southern states decided to use their alloted Fed dollars to set up competition.
How many people lost jobs during Bush's rule? How can they buy anything?

People who lose their jobs also lose their homes.

Deregulations.

deregulation and forcing banks to loan to those who cannot pay.




you need to get real and stop swallowing the koolaid the left feeds you every single day.. it took more than just Boosh and eight years to get us to where we are today.. until you get that part right you are a lost sucker.and will always be a victim..

 

[WillowTree]

And the last "economic downturn" nearly as bad as Bush's 2 was 1992. That's why we voted his worthless father out of office.

If Jeb ever wins, I'm leaving the country. It'll prove Americans are some of the dumbest people on earth.

promises promises,, like we haven't heard that before.

 

[Southpaw]

The tech bubble recession was worsened by 9-11. And worse than 9-11 was Bush's policies after 9-11. And since he was warned about Al Queda and did nothing, and that worsened the recession, it is his fault.

Prove it. You can say 'it was Bush's fault' but until you actually back it up with credible claims or supporting context, it doesn't matter.

And if you don't blame Bush and his buddies for the gas prices, well then I don't know what to say. I can't provide you with any emails from Bush to the Oil companies where he told them to gouge us, but then again, Rove had all White House emails deleted, which is illegal, so I guess we'll never know.

Okay.... please provide me with some proof that Bush and Cheney manipulated the oil prices. Until you do, I have no reason to believe you.

But for you not to see Bush & Chaney's energy policies fucked us, or you don't think it was on purpose, then......

So what happened to the world's demand for oil? We still demand it. They lowered it because the Democrats would regulate them if they didn't lower gas on their own. If they get too greedy again next year, we might re-regulate them again.

I'm not trying to be rude but I'm curious as to how familiar you are with global economics/trade/manufacturing etc. See, what happens is that when the global economy is growing rapidly, business is booming. Businesses expand their operations, build new plants, make more products, hire more people, etc. All of this increases the need for more energy, especially in the form of petroleum because of its varied uses in internal combustion engines to chemicals like in plastic. However, when the global economy takes a big hit and starts to recede, that need starts to decrease. When the demand for oil decreases but the supply remains *fairly* constant, the price drops.

That's why you see Saudi Arabia cutting their production goals by more than expected. They are doing whatever they can to get the price of oil back to around $60 a barrel. That's why domestic oil companies are cutting their drilling by around 20% for 2009. They still want to expand their operations but it is much harder to fund the drilling of a new well (which can cost millions) when oil sells for $35 a barrel versus $75 a barrel.

Oh, I work in O&G.

Bush is responsible for everything. Not just bush, but the entire GOP. That's why they were run out of office in 2008 and 2008.

When you see the world in black and white, you miss all of the subtleties and nuances of complex situations. Neither party is entirely at fault. It is just ignorant to believe that.

Remember last year you guys kept pointing out that Congress' overall approval ratings were really low? Well notice how all the Dem encumbents kept their jobs. Yea, that says a lot. That tells me most people get it. Clearly you don't get it, nor will you ever. That's ok. The Dems will screw up and one day you'll win again.

Did you vote straight party ticket? Do you think many people did? Is it *possible* that the mentality of 'Congress sucks but I like my guy (even though he/she sided with Congress most of the time) so I'll vote for him' occurs.

But give it up. The last 8 years proved why Republicans should never be in charge. They only represent the top 10% in this country, and corporations, and foreign interest.

I've got quite a few beefs with the Republican party, primarily because they no longer espouse small government.

And the sooner you stop buying into their stupid god/gays and gun arguments, the better off we will all be.

It is the mark of a highly ignorant person to lump a person into a category before knowing much about that person. Yes, I'm a Christian. Yes, I believe homosexuality is wrong. Yes, I believe that gays should be allowed to marry because the 14th Amendment prohibits such discrimination. Yes, I believe Scalia was totally correct in his analysis of constitutional law on the 2nd Amendment in the DC handgun case earlier this year.

They lied to us for 8 years. They were wrong for 8 years. So now you want to give me the GOP response to why the economy sucks? Sorry, but you are wrong again.

You've talked a lot but said little.

 

[xsited1]

But it's not a bailout, it's a loan. And Washington has given GM and Chrysler incentive to pay it back early. 5% interest if paid back quick, something like 8-10% if not paid back asap.

The Libertarians are too much like the GOP for me to like them. They make good points, but in the end, I'm not interested in a every man for himself society.

It's a bail-out.

Saying Libertarians are like the GOP is like saying Libertarians are like the Democrats. They aren't even in the same league.

 

[xsited1]

Yeah, understood.

You realize, don't you, that the UAW has already given up those super high salaries, right?

Look, I personally believe that the USA taxpayer should be BUYING these companies outright, and then remachining them to become the producers of GREENER autos that their bloated managment failed to do in the last thirty years.

Their capitalization values is less than what they need to keep going so why the hell shouldn't we just nationalize them if we're going to pay to keep them alive?

But the problem iwht this discussion is that we cannot just parce out the problems of the auto industry from all the other systemic problems we have allowed to develop.

Free trade is a disaster for this nation as it is for EVERY nation sooner or later.

All our nation's industries will sooner or later face the same problems.

I no more want my nation to bail out these industries than I wanted them to bail out the bankers, but ....

in for apenny, in for a pound, amigo.

Since they're not going to fix the REAL problem, they're just going to keep making it worse.

But the problem we have right now is liquidity, not inflation.

The PEOPLE of the USA lost how many TRILLIONS in real estate and the market in the last years?

We are headed toward a depression and if there's suddently 2-10 million people ALSO out of work, that depression is going to effect you just as harshly as it is going to effect a machinist working for Chrysler.

We have GOT to get more money into circulation to stave off the vicious cycle of DEFLATION.

We both recognize the huge problems and we have different ideas on how to solve them. Let's hope something gets done soon!

 

[sealybobo]

deregulation and forcing banks to loan to those who cannot pay.




you need to get real and stop swallowing the koolaid the left feeds you every single day.. it took more than just Boosh and eight years to get us to where we are today.. until you get that part right you are a lost sucker.and will always be a victim..

And I love it when you get mad too.

 

[sealybobo]

Prove it. You can say 'it was Bush's fault' but until you actually back it up with credible claims or supporting context, it doesn't matter.



Okay.... please provide me with some proof that Bush and Cheney manipulated the oil prices. Until you do, I have no reason to believe you.



I'm not trying to be rude but I'm curious as to how familiar you are with global economics/trade/manufacturing etc. See, what happens is that when the global economy is growing rapidly, business is booming. Businesses expand their operations, build new plants, make more products, hire more people, etc. All of this increases the need for more energy, especially in the form of petroleum because of its varied uses in internal combustion engines to chemicals like in plastic. However, when the global economy takes a big hit and starts to recede, that need starts to decrease. When the demand for oil decreases but the supply remains *fairly* constant, the price drops.

That's why you see Saudi Arabia cutting their production goals by more than expected. They are doing whatever they can to get the price of oil back to around $60 a barrel. That's why domestic oil companies are cutting their drilling by around 20% for 2009. They still want to expand their operations but it is much harder to fund the drilling of a new well (which can cost millions) when oil sells for $35 a barrel versus $75 a barrel.

Oh, I work in O&G.



When you see the world in black and white, you miss all of the subtleties and nuances of complex situations. Neither party is entirely at fault. It is just ignorant to believe that.



Did you vote straight party ticket? Do you think many people did? Is it *possible* that the mentality of 'Congress sucks but I like my guy (even though he/she sided with Congress most of the time) so I'll vote for him' occurs.



I've got quite a few beefs with the Republican party, primarily because they no longer espouse small government.



It is the mark of a highly ignorant person to lump a person into a category before knowing much about that person. Yes, I'm a Christian. Yes, I believe homosexuality is wrong. Yes, I believe that gays should be allowed to marry because the 14th Amendment prohibits such discrimination. Yes, I believe Scalia was totally correct in his analysis of constitutional law on the 2nd Amendment in the DC handgun case earlier this year.



You've talked a lot but said little.

1. I think history will properly judge the current administration. The facts ar already coming out. And we don't even have our US attorney's appointed to enforce sobpoenas. Wait till Rove and Harriet Meyers have to actually show up!

2. I'm familiar enough to know when we're being screwed. Robber Barons are back!

3. Tom Delay, Jack Abramoff, Dick Chaney, George Bush, Paul Wolfowitz, The Federal Reserve, the Robber Baron's are at fault. The Top 1%! It's class warfare. They do it every so often. Guilded Age, Great Depression, during every war. Then a guy like FDR or Obama or Kennedy come in and fix the mess the rich caused. And every so often we revolt. Once the farmers did it, then the Jimmy Hoffa unions, the piece and love children did it during Nam and now the Obamamanics like me just took back the country. Now jobs will stop going overseas and the Democrats will prop back up the middle class. Without the government, there is no middle class. That's our government, but they aren't my corporations. And this is our country, not the banks or auto companies. I'm for protecting jobs, good paying jobs. I'm for dealing with walmart. Unionize it if the employees want.

And I'm for taxing corporations, especially Honda and Toyota.

And taking away the tax breaks bush gave companies going overseas, because they paid him to pass those laws. Did I say Bush? I meant the GOP leadership. Entirely! And to not know who fucked you is retarded. Not to be rude, but you are retarded.

4. No, Republicans lost seats. LOTS of them. And Democrats kept their seats, because people, at least most people, get it at this point. We know who fucked up.

5. The GOP hasn't been practicing what it's been preaching for 20 years now. Daddy Bush didn't keep one campaign promise, then ran with the same 10 campaign promises his second term against Clinton. They think you're stupid. Guess what? I agree. Do you know who Lee Atwater is? He knows you better than you know yourself. Look him up. He's Rove's mentor.