When Christians Pray...Does It Change Anything

[Cammmpbell]

Cammpbell, I have seen no evidence that you have an open mind on this sort of subject, and much evidence that you do not. However, for the sake of others who might, and just in case you have a personality change or decide to stop fighting the same battles from your childhood until you drop dead, here's the key to understanding the power of prayer:

Probability is not fixed.

Now, think about that, and you may understand that everything you posted in the OP is irrelevant -- utterly irrelevant -- to the question of whether Christian (or other) prayer can change anything.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek7tfozS13c&feature=fvst]George Carlin - Religion is a Bullshit - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Avatar4321]

Yes. But you don't really understand the purpose of prayer. The best statement on the purpose of prayer I've ever found is in a Bible dictionary:

As soon as we learn the true relationship in which we stand toward God (namely, God is our Father, and we are his children), then at once prayer becomes natural and instinctive on our part (Matt. 7:7–11). Many of the so-called difficulties about prayer arise from forgetting this relationship. Prayer is the act by which the will of the Father and the will of the child are brought into correspondence with each other. The object of prayer is not to change the will of God, but to secure for ourselves and for others blessings that God is already willing to grant, but that are made conditional on our asking for them. Blessings require some work or effort on our part before we can obtain them. Prayer is a form of work, and is an appointed means for obtaining the highest of all blessings.

 

[koshergrl]

Prayer is not just about asking, though, it's also about praising.

 

[Cammmpbell]

Yes. But you don't really understand the purpose of prayer. The best statement on the purpose of prayer I've ever found is in a Bible dictionary:

As soon as we learn the true relationship in which we stand toward God (namely, God is our Father, and we are his children), then at once prayer becomes natural and instinctive on our part (Matt. 7:7–11). Many of the so-called difficulties about prayer arise from forgetting this relationship. Prayer is the act by which the will of the Father and the will of the child are brought into correspondence with each other. The object of prayer is not to change the will of God, but to secure for ourselves and for others blessings that God is already willing to grant, but that are made conditional on our asking for them. Blessings require some work or effort on our part before we can obtain them. Prayer is a form of work, and is an appointed means for obtaining the highest of all blessings.

The purpose of prayer is to make the Prayer feel good. The Prayee would never know the difference unless somebody told them. That's what's unique about Christians. They're always dropping the god name like they're on a first name basis with he-she-it and telling people, "I'll Pray For You!!"

If I didn't want to maintain some kind of relationship with my family, friends and past associates I'd tell them not to waste their breath. Christians are so goddamned egotistical and arrogant they actually believe they're doing a person a favor by telling them that. It's the biggest crock of schit in the history of civili ed man. The statistics in my original post prove to any logical, reasonable person that the schit doesn't work.

Oh......to add to that. I heard this morning that 30% of babies born today can expect to live to 100.......to live till 2112. Ol' Gawd sure did phuck the billions of us who came along early. All that suffering and death at 50, 60 etc.

 

[Dragon]

Cammpbell, I have seen no evidence that you have an open mind on this sort of subject, and much evidence that you do not. However, for the sake of others who might, and just in case you have a personality change or decide to stop fighting the same battles from your childhood until you drop dead, here's the key to understanding the power of prayer:

Probability is not fixed.

Now, think about that, and you may understand that everything you posted in the OP is irrelevant -- utterly irrelevant -- to the question of whether Christian (or other) prayer can change anything.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek7tfozS13c&feature=fvst]George Carlin - Religion is a Bullshit - YouTube[/ame]

The fact that you think this is an answer tells me you did not read what I posted for comprehension. Try again.

 

[Cammmpbell]

Cammpbell, I have seen no evidence that you have an open mind on this sort of subject, and much evidence that you do not. However, for the sake of others who might, and just in case you have a personality change or decide to stop fighting the same battles from your childhood until you drop dead, here's the key to understanding the power of prayer:

Probability is not fixed.

Now, think about that, and you may understand that everything you posted in the OP is irrelevant -- utterly irrelevant -- to the question of whether Christian (or other) prayer can change anything.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek7tfozS13c&feature=fvst]George Carlin - Religion is a Bullshit - YouTube[/ame]

The fact that you think this is an answer tells me you did not read what I posted for comprehension. Try again.

LMAO!!!! I strongly suspect you didn't listen to George either. Christians never even hear words spoken to them much less voluntarily invite something contrary to their brainwashing. You forget.....I lived the church life including being there three days a week and tithing my gross until I was over sixty years old.

 

[Dragon]

LMAO!!!! I strongly suspect you didn't listen to George either. Christians never even hear words spoken to them much less voluntarily invite something contrary to their brainwashing. You forget.....I lived the church life including being there three days a week and tithing my gross until I was over sixty years old.

1) I am not a Christian.

2) You still don't have a clue what I said. Go back and try again. Or here, I'll repeat the important part:

"Probability is not fixed."

Now, think about that for a while, if you can engage your brain.

 

[Avatar4321]

Yes. But you don't really understand the purpose of prayer. The best statement on the purpose of prayer I've ever found is in a Bible dictionary:

As soon as we learn the true relationship in which we stand toward God (namely, God is our Father, and we are his children), then at once prayer becomes natural and instinctive on our part (Matt. 7:7–11). Many of the so-called difficulties about prayer arise from forgetting this relationship. Prayer is the act by which the will of the Father and the will of the child are brought into correspondence with each other. The object of prayer is not to change the will of God, but to secure for ourselves and for others blessings that God is already willing to grant, but that are made conditional on our asking for them. Blessings require some work or effort on our part before we can obtain them. Prayer is a form of work, and is an appointed means for obtaining the highest of all blessings.

The purpose of prayer is to make the Prayer feel good. The Prayee would never know the difference unless somebody told them. That's what's unique about Christians. They're always dropping the god name like they're on a first name basis with he-she-it and telling people, "I'll Pray For You!!"

If I didn't want to maintain some kind of relationship with my family, friends and past associates I'd tell them not to waste their breath. Christians are so goddamned egotistical and arrogant they actually believe they're doing a person a favor by telling them that. It's the biggest crock of schit in the history of civili ed man. The statistics in my original post prove to any logical, reasonable person that the schit doesn't work.

Oh......to add to that. I heard this morning that 30% of babies born today can expect to live to 100.......to live till 2112. Ol' Gawd sure did phuck the billions of us who came along early. All that suffering and death at 50, 60 etc.

So God gave us His Son to ensure that everyone who ever lived will be raised in the Resurrection to Immortal glory, and you think people who died at 50 or 60 are somehow screwed?

Suffering isnt necessarily a bad thing. I suffer pain when I lift weights. But you know what, because of that pain I am a significantly stronger person.

God is on a first name basis with us. He knows us all by name. Even you. And He does have a personal relationship with those who maintain the relationship with Him. Like all relationships, when we speak with and serve God, our relationship is stronger. You don't understand this because you haven't tried it.

 

[Leweman]

what's the provable, right answer?

 

[Cammmpbell]

Yes. But you don't really understand the purpose of prayer. The best statement on the purpose of prayer I've ever found is in a Bible dictionary:

The purpose of prayer is to make the Prayer feel good. The Prayee would never know the difference unless somebody told them. That's what's unique about Christians. They're always dropping the god name like they're on a first name basis with he-she-it and telling people, "I'll Pray For You!!"

If I didn't want to maintain some kind of relationship with my family, friends and past associates I'd tell them not to waste their breath. Christians are so goddamned egotistical and arrogant they actually believe they're doing a person a favor by telling them that. It's the biggest crock of schit in the history of civili ed man. The statistics in my original post prove to any logical, reasonable person that the schit doesn't work.

Oh......to add to that. I heard this morning that 30% of babies born today can expect to live to 100.......to live till 2112. Ol' Gawd sure did phuck the billions of us who came along early. All that suffering and death at 50, 60 etc.

So God gave us His Son to ensure that everyone who ever lived will be raised in the Resurrection to Immortal glory, and you think people who died at 50 or 60 are somehow screwed?

Suffering isnt necessarily a bad thing. I suffer pain when I lift weights. But you know what, because of that pain I am a significantly stronger person.

God is on a first name basis with us. He knows us all by name. Even you. And He does have a personal relationship with those who maintain the relationship with Him. Like all relationships, when we speak with and serve God, our relationship is stronger. You don't understand this because you haven't tried it.

You missed the whole point. Christians prayed for sick people for nearly 2000 years and they suffered and died anyway. Only now after the last 50 years has the real medical science come along. Shucks....200 years ago they were still putting leaches on folks who were suffering with anemia. That's what god gets for leaving the only keys to the kingdom with a bunch of people who had to start a fire to see at night, mostly never traveled more than 50 miles from where they were born...believed in witches and thought the earth was flat.

I won't even go into the:

Two naked teens and a snake in garden determining the fate of the whole human race

A flood in which the water level reached a height of 29.000 ft and evaporated in a few weeks

Big fish puking up live men

Walls tumbling at the sound of a trumpet

A virgin giving birth to the god of the universe

A man able to walk on water

People healed of leprosy by laying hands on them

Water turned into fine wine

5000 hungry men plus women and children who also ate being fed with two fish and five loaves then 12 baskets of leftovers collected

A man being hung on a cross and bled like a hog only to show up two days later fit as a fiddle


Well yeah...........I guess I did. In your heart you know it's bullshit. That's why your prayers are never answered...unless you're praying for the fat lady down the street to keep eating chocolates.

 

[uscitizen]

The old saying "no atheists in the foxholes" is truer than you think. Agnostics stumble through life not knowing the difference between right ans wrong and lashing out at people who mean them no harm. Who do they pray to when they get in trouble? It must be a dismal existence.

It is an absolute statement and thus false.
This atheist has been in foxholes, rice paddies, etc while being shot at.

Pray if you want, but shooting the bastards that were shooting at me made more sense to me.

 

[whitehall]

You can joke about the Bible if you want to but I have been in a couple of situations in my life when I said "God please let me live through this". I can't testify that divine intervention protected me but it made me feel better at the time and I am still alive. Who do agnostics cry out to when they are in trouble?

 

[Cammmpbell]

You can joke about the Bible if you want to but I have been in a couple of situations in my life when I said "God please let me live through this". I can't testify that divine intervention protected me but it made me feel better at the time and I am still alive. Who do agnostics cry out to when they are in trouble?

ROTFLMAO!!!

You ever watch the flick "Pulp Fiction"

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnhRssAdJxw]Pulp Fiction - Meaning of a Miracle.avi - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Dragon]

Atheism isn't necessarily a dogmatic belief-system, but in Cammpbell's case it obviously is one.

 

[Ariux]

Every family either had a member or a close friend who was sick or dying. People prayed till their knees were bloody

God has appointed everyone to die. So, God does not want us to stay well (and live forever).
All our modern medicine hasn't seemed to increase the human lifespan by a day. Life expectancy is longer, but people could always have lived longer if they took better care of themselves. People who don't think God answers their prayers to be healed have ignored what what the Bible says about healing and have rejected Jesus's explicit words on the subject.

 

[uscitizen]

You can joke about the Bible if you want to but I have been in a couple of situations in my life when I said "God please let me live through this". I can't testify that divine intervention protected me but it made me feel better at the time and I am still alive. Who do agnostics cry out to when they are in trouble?

Not sure about em all but I face up to the problem and work thru it.

I think I recall yelling Die you Mother^&^%$#$! Then proceeded to my best to make that happen.
And proceeded to tell my cubbyhole mate to kill some too while he prayed. He had frozen but came out of it.
That damned log seemed like a stick to be hiding behind.

I do however understand that if you have the faith prayer can be comforting whether it does anything or not.

I envy those with the faith a bit for that, but one cannot make ones self believe.

 

[Cammmpbell]

You can joke about the Bible if you want to but I have been in a couple of situations in my life when I said "God please let me live through this". I can't testify that divine intervention protected me but it made me feel better at the time and I am still alive. Who do agnostics cry out to when they are in trouble?

Not sure about em all but I face up to the problem and work thru it.

I think I recall yelling Die you Mother^&^%$#$! Then proceeded to my best to make that happen.
And proceeded to tell my cubbyhole mate to kill some too while he prayed. He had frozen but came out of it.
That damned log seemed like a stick to be hiding behind.

I do however understand that if you have the faith prayer can be comforting whether it does anything or not.

I envy those with the faith a bit for that, but one cannot make ones self believe.

OK that's basically what I intended to convey. The one doing the praying is the one who benefits but I know from my 77 years on this earth that whoever is being prayed for is shit out of luck I mean my goodness the statistics prove it. Anybody who can not read charts, graphs......clear text for that matter, has real problems in the head....especially if they think some invisible man in the sky is there for their beck and call.

Look.....if it's all god's devine plan why are you trying to change it. Don't you trust him enough to believe he will carry out his promises


Luke 12:

25 ¶ Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?

26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?

27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?

28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:

29 and yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory 1 Kgs. 10.4-7 · 2 Chr. 9.3-6 was not arrayed like one of these.

30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?

32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.

33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

34 ¶ Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. (401K anyone)

 

[westwall]

I know folks can't help it because of their brainwashing into the ancient god thing but prayer is totally ineffective. I know it is because of what I witnessed from my youngest memories. When I was born in 1934 the average life expectancy of a White male in the United States was 61. If someone survived their first heart attack they would mope around essentially incapcitated for a couple of years then die. Cancer was a death sentence. The only treatment was surgery and over half the time the tumor metasticised and spread all through the body and usually they lasted a year after that if they were lucky. Wednesday evening prayer meetings all over this country were crowded and prayer lists were a foot long. Every family either had a member or a close friend who was sick or dying. People prayed till their knees were bloody and the aflicted suffered and died anyway. Either the almighty supreme being didn't answer the prayers or he was AWOL from his job.

Now the average life expectency of a White male at birth is 78. Thanks to the spin offs from the moon landing in the late 60's we have sophisticated diagnostic systems, MRI, CTscans, ultrasound, endoscopy, colonoscopy, heart catheri ation procedures, stents, bypasses, transplants, stem cell technology, chemo, radiation and limited invasive surgical procedures which produce much lower mortality statistics. The Christians think god is watching out for them. What about the millions upon millions who died or suffered unmercifully before all this technology and research came about through countless months and years of human dedication and effort..the ones who regardless of the dedication of those who prayed...suffered and died.

A few weeks ago one of my high school mates about 78 years old actually ask all of us to pray for positive results for an abdominal ultrasound and colonoscopy she had scheduled. Turned out she had indigestion.

The egotism and arrogance of those who cling to ancient god worship knows no bounds. If the creator of the universe visited us tomorrow do you really think he would meet with you

If you can't get an audience with the pope I'll be damned if I can see why you could be visited by the creator.

the only 3 words that made sense in the entire post.....

I notice you didn't point to any reference which contradicted any of my statements. 'Course thumpers don't need anything except the holly bibble.

I'm a helluva lot smarter than bible thumpers. 'Course those like me are growing in numbers as we speak. I will definitely do my part.

I think the better question would be when you wake up in the morning are you this filled with hate or does it have to build up in you? Have you allways been filled with vitriol? I wonder. Just be prepared for a miserable life. There is no way you are as old as you claim to be. So you have a long miserable existence ahead of you. Too bad. But you made your bed so you get to lay in it.

 

[westwall]

You can joke about the Bible if you want to but I have been in a couple of situations in my life when I said "God please let me live through this". I can't testify that divine intervention protected me but it made me feel better at the time and I am still alive. Who do agnostics cry out to when they are in trouble?

My normal response was "oh shit!" Then I would sing a song to calm down. That allways did the trick for me.

 

[Cammmpbell]

You can joke about the Bible if you want to but I have been in a couple of situations in my life when I said "God please let me live through this". I can't testify that divine intervention protected me but it made me feel better at the time and I am still alive. Who do agnostics cry out to when they are in trouble?

My normal response was "oh shit!" Then I would sing a song to calm down. That allways did the trick for me.

Do you people ever actually read the bible

Do you even have a clue what's there

The one doing the praying is the one who benefits but I know from my 77 years on this earth that whoever is being prayed for is shit out of luck I mean my goodness the statistics prove it. Anybody who can not read charts, graphs......clear text for that matter, has real problems in the head....especially if they think some invisible man in the sky is there for their beck and call.

Look.....if it's all god's devine plan why are you trying to change it. Don't you trust him enough to believe he will carry out his promises


Luke 12:

25 ¶ Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?

26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?

27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?

28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:

29 and yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory 1 Kgs. 10.4-7 · 2 Chr. 9.3-6 was not arrayed like one of these.

30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?

32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.

33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

34 ¶ Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. (401K anyone)