"What To The Slave Is The 4th Of July?"

[Slash]

I realize what the website says. It was one of a very few I could find that state what you insist. That was my point since you did not post any links that support what you state.

I still cannot find anything out there that validates "free land" for former slaves

It was the entire reason the Republicans formed. Not to give them free land, but to let them as free people be able to freely work the land. Free Soil, Free Labor, Free Men is a great book on it if you'd like to educate yourself on the topic. You want to see where he said it? How about where he DID it. Where he freed the slaves to work the land freely in the USA?

But I do find it interesting that so many revisionists like to change these things up and put in their own words on it. Somehow out of nowhere we get this forced migration revisionist BS even though not one word of that was ever spoken. Not even possible with free men anyways.

Somehow this revisionist crap goes so far that it's not "look at what I did" as in free the slaves in the US, but it's "look at what I thought about".

Even the book about it. "Colonization after Emancipation" says "Lincoln’s plans for voluntary emigration lacked the callous deportation to which more serious racial separatists subscribed”

 

[Taz]

The slaves playing the music at their master's 4th of July celebration had it pretty good. probably wouldn't have gone back to Africa if you offered it to them.

 

[katsteve2012]

The slaves playing the music at their master's 4th of July celebration had it pretty good. probably wouldn't have gone back to Africa if you offered it to them.

Sure. They would have happily stayed captive in an existence equivalent to that of farm animals.
SMGDH

 

[Slash]

Sure. They would have happily stayed captive in an existence equivalent to that of farm animals.
SMGDH

I never got the "it's so much better here so it's not really that bad" thought.

Norway ALWAYS ranks well above the USA in happiness. I don't think that if I steal your daughter, tell you that she's going to be my slave. Her children (or even our children if I choose) will be my property, but it's all good. We are going to Norway and it's a much better place...

 

[katsteve2012]

I realize what the website says. It was one of a very few I could find that state what you insist. That was my point since you did not post any links that support what you state.

I still cannot find anything out there that validates "free land" for former slaves

It was the entire reason the Republicans formed. Not to give them free land, but to let them as free people be able to freely work the land. Free Soil, Free Labor, Free Men is a great book on it if you'd like to educate yourself on the topic. You want to see where he said it? How about where he DID it. Where he freed the slaves to work the land freely in the USA?

But I do find it interesting that so many revisionists like to change these things up and put in their own words on it. Somehow out of nowhere we get this forced migration revisionist BS even though not one word of that was ever spoken. Not even possible with free men anyways.

Somehow this revisionist crap goes so far that it's not "look at what I did" as in free the slaves in the US, but it's "look at what I thought about".

Even the book about it. "Colonization after Emancipation" says "Lincoln’s plans for voluntary emigration lacked the callous deportation to which more serious racial separatists subscribed”

There are obviously different takes on history, and the only people that know the unvarnished truth are those who lived it and were effected by it. Much of what I have learned about this ugly part of this country's history have been through history as well as accounts from family elders as told to them by their own elders, who in some cases were slaves who became free or died in captivity.

Therefore, what is considered revisionist is a matter of history interpreted by the individual. And this topic has been debatable for a century and a half.

I will read some reviews on the book that you suggest.

One certainty is that the introduction of Black Codes and Jim Crow after slavery did not equate to a happy ending for former slaves.

 

[Slash]

There are obviously different takes on history, and the only people that know the unvarnished truth are those who lived it.

Therefore, what is considered revisionist is a matter of history interpreted by the individual. And this topic has been debatable for a century and a half.

I will read some reviews on book that you suggest.

There are different takes, I agree. But I've always judged men by what they do, not what they thought of. I mean there wouldn't be hardly anyone married if we judged all men on their thoughts. lol

And Lincoln acted as an abolitionist. Some use those speeches in his debates when he was trying to seem moderate as proof he wasn't.

Some say "he waited for the emancipation proclamation". Yeah, He lived inbetween two slave states. If he made it about slavery on day 1, the next day he would have woken up in the heart of the confederacy that now owned Washington DC. Once Lee was pushed back and the lines were truly drawn, he made his proclamation (arguably the greatest misuse of executive power in the history of the US).

He free'd the slaves everywhere he had power. First in DC (only place a president had power to), then with the emancipation proclamation (by saying that states in revolt weren't allotted constitutional protection). Then finally with the 13th amendment (presidents have no legal power in amendments, but he made that his life's goal, not to move the slaves, but to free them IN America).

 

[Conservative65]

What To The Slave Is The 4th Of July?

Find a slave and we'll ask him.

Go find soldier who fought in the revolutionary war and shut up..

Go find a slave and ask him what he thinks about the speech. How long are those that never were slaves going to blame those of us that never owned slaves for their faults?

As long as people like you believe the same things those who owned slaves believed.

If you're black and a Democrat, apparently you don't mind being a slave.

 

[Conservative65]

Your inability to be honest about anything is increasingly pathetic.

Your unamericanism is supported by far more than your absurd position on Lincoln.

If you confuse refusal to believe in romanticized fables instead of actual historical events with being "Unamerican", thats not my problem.

Even some of your far right counterparts here have commented on your being wrong about Lincoln. You've shown an overall lack of understanding of the events of that era as well as a preference for being ignorantly misinformed.

I've pointed out that my quotes are from a time when Lincoln was not under pressure to be "diplomatic" or "Political", while you have ignored such context for you own quotes or mine.


I've pointed out that Lincoln's policies he ran on were radically opposed to slavery, and rightfully seen by the South as a deadly threat.


I've pointed out how Lincoln's actions and results support my choice of which of his quotes were the real him.

You've done nothing of the sort with your quotes nor addressed the synergy of mine.




Lincoln is the President that ended slavery. Any reasonable human being would see him as an American Hero.


THat you feel the need to deny his that, not to mention that you can't admit that American White Males elected the anti-slavery President,


shows that you are unreasonable, or dishonest and yes, you are anti-American.

"Your choice"? ROFLMAO.
And YOU know which quotes were the "real him"? You can see into the past?

Common sense dictates that what a person does when there is something at stake is a fairly dependable barometer of who they really are. And EVERY historical document that traces Lincolns campaign reveals that he was NOT radically opposed to slavery and preferred to stop its expansion and let it slowly become obsolete as opposed to taking a hard line against its very existence from the "moral position" that you dreamed up.

Actually, when something is at stake is when people have motive to lie or be "diplomatic" or political.

It is when there is no cost to something that people are comfortable saying what they really mean.

Your quotes are all from when Lincoln was staring at a possible war, or during the war,when he was trying to keep support for it.

His more radical comments were made when he was NOT facing terrible consequences for his words.

Lincoln was not viewed as the abolitionist that you are attempting to make him.
Period.

"American white males" elected Lincoln were the ONLY people allowed to vote at the time. And they voted to industrialize THEIR country, prevent expansion of slavery to new territories to protect the white labor force and preserve.........THEIR UNION. They were not "heroic" as you insist they were. It was business.

No reason that an Industrial North could not keep industrializing and adding new Free States with protected white labor forces, while the South remained slave and agricultural and adding new Slave states.

Unless the northern voters had a moral problem with slavery.

"In 1854, the Republican Party was founded mainly to end slavery, and for two decades it honorably promoted African-American equality. Its first presidential nominee, pioneer James C. Frémont, took a staunch anti-slavery stand in 1856 and ran well, paving the way for Abraham Lincoln's election four years later. Lincoln was no radical. He believed white men superior to blacks and opposed the outright abolition of slavery. But he wanted to stop slavery's westward expansion in the hope that it would die out—a position that won him endorsements from leading African-Americans such as Frederick Douglass and 40 percent of the overall vote, enough for victory in a four-way race."

I'm sure the slaves that he freed would have been very disappointed to hear that Lincoln did not consider them his complete equal.

And it was not a "hope" that slavery would die out, it was an obvious plan to kill it, which is why the South rose up in rebellion.

Well Lincoln did not believe blacks were equal. He believed blacks were inferior. And that's just the way it is

Yet ax most blacks that attend(ed) public school and they'll tell you Lincoln freed the slaves.

 

[bgrouse]

The slaves playing the music at their master's 4th of July celebration had it pretty good. probably wouldn't have gone back to Africa if you offered it to them.

Sure. They would have happily stayed captive in an existence equivalent to that of farm animals.
SMGDH

Farm animals? I think you're thinking of Africa, where they were originally slaves. What do you think happens to surplus slaves in a time of famine? I bet they'd fire up that fireplace really quick!

 

[ChrisL]

I just feel like if you are "offended" by the 4th of July or don't like or don't want to celebrate, then that is fine, but why be an ass to everyone else about it? We don't and will never all think the SAME way. Get that through your heads!

 

[IM2]

I just feel like if you are "offended" by the 4th of July or don't like or don't want to celebrate, then that is fine, but why be an ass to everyone else about it? We don't and will never all think the SAME way. Get that through your heads!

I made the OP as a refection for whites who always want to talk abut how we should not blame those in the past for things and how we should not ascribe todays standards on those in the past. For those who consistently clamored that slavery was over, a thing of the past and as such we should just move on. The fact is July 4th, 1776 is the past. It was 241 years ago, but we still celebrate that day. We still talk about the beliefs of long dead men who are white until it's time to mention they owned slaves or were racists, then that's the past and we should forget it. The entire reason for t his thread was not to talk about slavery, but t point out the hypocrisy of white conservatives specifically and republicans relative to their ability to use the past only when it makes them look good.

Just as much as I was not a slave none of you whites here fought in the revolutionary war. The double standards need to end, the excuses you whites make need to go too. That's why this thread was made.

 

[ChrisL]

I just feel like if you are "offended" by the 4th of July or don't like or don't want to celebrate, then that is fine, but why be an ass to everyone else about it? We don't and will never all think the SAME way. Get that through your heads!

I made the OP as a refection for whites who always want to talk abut how we should not blame those in the past for things and how we should not ascribe todays standards on those in the past. For those who consistently clamored that slavery was over, a thing of the past and as such we should just move on. The fact is July 4th, 1776 is the past. It was 241 years ago, but we still celebrate that day. We still talk about the beliefs of long dead men who are white until it's time to mention they owned slaves or were racists, then that's the past and we should forget it. The entire reason for t his thread was not to talk about slavery, but t point out the hypocrisy of white conservatives specifically and republicans relative to their ability to use the past only when it makes them look good.

Just as much as I was not a slave none of you whites here fought in the revolutionary war. The double standards need to end, the excuses you whites make need to go too. That's why this thread was made.

We celebrate it because it's FUN. You know what FUN is? It sure doesn't seem like you do!

 

[ChrisL]

Keep your cranky old man attitude to yourself please. We want to have fun and relax and celebrate our holidays.

 

[IM2]

I just feel like if you are "offended" by the 4th of July or don't like or don't want to celebrate, then that is fine, but why be an ass to everyone else about it? We don't and will never all think the SAME way. Get that through your heads!

I made the OP as a refection for whites who always want to talk abut how we should not blame those in the past for things and how we should not ascribe todays standards on those in the past. For those who consistently clamored that slavery was over, a thing of the past and as such we should just move on. The fact is July 4th, 1776 is the past. It was 241 years ago, but we still celebrate that day. We still talk about the beliefs of long dead men who are white until it's time to mention they owned slaves or were racists, then that's the past and we should forget it. The entire reason for t his thread was not to talk about slavery, but t point out the hypocrisy of white conservatives specifically and republicans relative to their ability to use the past only when it makes them look good.

Just as much as I was not a slave none of you whites here fought in the revolutionary war. The double standards need to end, the excuses you whites make need to go too. That's why this thread was made.

We celebrate it because it's FUN. You know what FUN is? It sure doesn't seem like you do!

Well the fact is that none of you were there on July 4th, 1776. I have fun every day. I don't need to designate a day to have fun.

There is no old man attitude. There is the truth and then there is you.

 

[ChrisL]

I just feel like if you are "offended" by the 4th of July or don't like or don't want to celebrate, then that is fine, but why be an ass to everyone else about it? We don't and will never all think the SAME way. Get that through your heads!

I made the OP as a refection for whites who always want to talk abut how we should not blame those in the past for things and how we should not ascribe todays standards on those in the past. For those who consistently clamored that slavery was over, a thing of the past and as such we should just move on. The fact is July 4th, 1776 is the past. It was 241 years ago, but we still celebrate that day. We still talk about the beliefs of long dead men who are white until it's time to mention they owned slaves or were racists, then that's the past and we should forget it. The entire reason for t his thread was not to talk about slavery, but t point out the hypocrisy of white conservatives specifically and republicans relative to their ability to use the past only when it makes them look good.

Just as much as I was not a slave none of you whites here fought in the revolutionary war. The double standards need to end, the excuses you whites make need to go too. That's why this thread was made.

We celebrate it because it's FUN. You know what FUN is? It sure doesn't seem like you do!

Well the fact is that none of you were there on July 4th, 1776. I have fun every day. I don't need to designate a day to have fun.

There is no old man attitude. There is the truth and then there is you.

Yes there is. You seem like a cranky old man! Let people alone and let them have their holidays!

 

[ChrisL]

You want our money, you want us to give up our holidays? What ELSE do you want, and what are YOU going to do for me?

 

[IM2]

I just feel like if you are "offended" by the 4th of July or don't like or don't want to celebrate, then that is fine, but why be an ass to everyone else about it? We don't and will never all think the SAME way. Get that through your heads!

I made the OP as a refection for whites who always want to talk abut how we should not blame those in the past for things and how we should not ascribe todays standards on those in the past. For those who consistently clamored that slavery was over, a thing of the past and as such we should just move on. The fact is July 4th, 1776 is the past. It was 241 years ago, but we still celebrate that day. We still talk about the beliefs of long dead men who are white until it's time to mention they owned slaves or were racists, then that's the past and we should forget it. The entire reason for t his thread was not to talk about slavery, but t point out the hypocrisy of white conservatives specifically and republicans relative to their ability to use the past only when it makes them look good.

Just as much as I was not a slave none of you whites here fought in the revolutionary war. The double standards need to end, the excuses you whites make need to go too. That's why this thread was made.

We celebrate it because it's FUN. You know what FUN is? It sure doesn't seem like you do!

Well the fact is that none of you were there on July 4th, 1776. I have fun every day. I don't need to designate a day to have fun.

There is no old man attitude. There is the truth and then there is you.

Yes there is. You seem like a cranky old man! Let people alone and let them have their holidays!

No cranky old man attitude here. But what I see from you is the young dumb and fill of c-m stupidity of a person who doesn't know what the hell they are talking about.

You are really stupid. I haven't said anything about you ending your holidays. I have said I don't celebrate the fourth of July. And we are owed. Whites shouldn't have done what they did and should have stopped instead of continuing it and always trying to make excuses for it like you do.

 

[ChrisL]

I just feel like if you are "offended" by the 4th of July or don't like or don't want to celebrate, then that is fine, but why be an ass to everyone else about it? We don't and will never all think the SAME way. Get that through your heads!

I made the OP as a refection for whites who always want to talk abut how we should not blame those in the past for things and how we should not ascribe todays standards on those in the past. For those who consistently clamored that slavery was over, a thing of the past and as such we should just move on. The fact is July 4th, 1776 is the past. It was 241 years ago, but we still celebrate that day. We still talk about the beliefs of long dead men who are white until it's time to mention they owned slaves or were racists, then that's the past and we should forget it. The entire reason for t his thread was not to talk about slavery, but t point out the hypocrisy of white conservatives specifically and republicans relative to their ability to use the past only when it makes them look good.

Just as much as I was not a slave none of you whites here fought in the revolutionary war. The double standards need to end, the excuses you whites make need to go too. That's why this thread was made.

We celebrate it because it's FUN. You know what FUN is? It sure doesn't seem like you do!

Well the fact is that none of you were there on July 4th, 1776. I have fun every day. I don't need to designate a day to have fun.

There is no old man attitude. There is the truth and then there is you.

Yes there is. You seem like a cranky old man! Let people alone and let them have their holidays!

No cranky old man attitude here. But what I see from you is the young dumb and fill of c-m stupidity of a person who doesn't know what the hell they are talking about.

You are really stupid. I haven't said anything about you ending your holidays. I have said I don't celebrate the fourth of July. And we are owed. Whites shouldn't have done what they did and should have stopped instead of continuing it and always trying to make excuses for it like you do.

BS, nobody OWES you anything. Most of the "whites" you refer to immigrated here long after slavery ended in the US. Get real.

 

[ChrisL]

I just feel like if you are "offended" by the 4th of July or don't like or don't want to celebrate, then that is fine, but why be an ass to everyone else about it? We don't and will never all think the SAME way. Get that through your heads!

I made the OP as a refection for whites who always want to talk abut how we should not blame those in the past for things and how we should not ascribe todays standards on those in the past. For those who consistently clamored that slavery was over, a thing of the past and as such we should just move on. The fact is July 4th, 1776 is the past. It was 241 years ago, but we still celebrate that day. We still talk about the beliefs of long dead men who are white until it's time to mention they owned slaves or were racists, then that's the past and we should forget it. The entire reason for t his thread was not to talk about slavery, but t point out the hypocrisy of white conservatives specifically and republicans relative to their ability to use the past only when it makes them look good.

Just as much as I was not a slave none of you whites here fought in the revolutionary war. The double standards need to end, the excuses you whites make need to go too. That's why this thread was made.

We celebrate it because it's FUN. You know what FUN is? It sure doesn't seem like you do!

Well the fact is that none of you were there on July 4th, 1776. I have fun every day. I don't need to designate a day to have fun.

There is no old man attitude. There is the truth and then there is you.

Yes there is. You seem like a cranky old man! Let people alone and let them have their holidays!

No cranky old man attitude here. But what I see from you is the young dumb and fill of c-m stupidity of a person who doesn't know what the hell they are talking about.

You are really stupid. I haven't said anything about you ending your holidays. I have said I don't celebrate the fourth of July. And we are owed. Whites shouldn't have done what they did and should have stopped instead of continuing it and always trying to make excuses for it like you do.

You are the "stupid" one here. You act as if every white person owned a "slave." What a crock. Poor white people weren't doing much better and in fact sometimes even worse because they had nobody else to feed them and put a roof over their heads. They were left to just die in the streets of starvation or turn to criminal activity or prostitution, so spare me your "woe is me" BS. Life isn't easy and you can't depend on other people to take care of you. Take care of your darn self!

 

[fncceo]

No cranky old man attitude here. But what I see from you is the young dumb and fill of c-m stupidity of a person who doesn't know what the hell they are talking about.

That sounds a lot like cranky ol' man speech to me.

With some misogyny thrown in for good measure.