"What To The Slave Is The 4th Of July?"

[Correll]

THat is not only not true, but does not challenge or even address my point in the post your were supposedly responding to.


reposted here.


I have repeatedly backed up my points with documented historical quotes and ACTIONS by the people involved.

No you have not. You have only posted your opinion, and that does not qualify as a credible argument.

I've cited the Republican Party Platform of 1860, I've cited Lincoln's stated personal beliefs. I cited his actual historical ACTIONS and policies that fully demonstrate his stated personal beliefs.


NOne of that is my personal opinion.

My personal opinion is based on that, and thus supported by it, and THAT is a very credible argument.


ie That Lincoln was anti-slavery on moral grounds and fought the war to end slavery AND save the Union.

The Republican Party platform of 1860 never touched on slavery as a moral issue. The hometead act and preventing expansion of slavery into new territories for the purpose of PRESERVING THE EXISTING LABOR FORCE were their reasons.

Slavery as a moral issue? No. Thats your alternative, made up history at work. You need to attend an 8th grade remedial history class.

Abraham Lincoln said war was over taxes, not slavery

I've already posted plenty of quotes from Lincoln, from when he was not under pressure to be diplomatic with the South, expressing his deep moral opposition to slavery.

You ignore them, because Lincoln getting elected, and fighting and winning a war to free the slaves, undermines your narrative of America always being Evul and Racist.

No it really doesn't. Because there was this 100 year period after slavery and that ended with MLK and others getting us the right to vote completely with no obstacles, the end of school segregation and unequal facilities based on race, the civil rights act which allowed us equal protection under the law, fair housing instead of racist housing policies, the EEOC which makes certain we get a true change at equal opportunity, just to name a few. Therefore your false narrative of America pertaining to whites fighting for the rights of blacks for geneations is what's undermined here.

And what you just did there was post a narrative of America as being Evul and Racist.


Which is what you NEED, so as to justify your hatred and bigotry and your blaming of all bad on whites and your expectation of continued discrimination in favor of blacks.


You just validated my post with your attack on it.


But you are too dim and/or dishonest to admit it.

 

[Correll]

Wow. A supposed academic arguing AGAINST the possibility of understanding something though study....

Incredible.

Anyway, it is absurd to think that slavery was not the primary issue of the elections in 1860 or 1865.

I was responding to what you said. It is fairly common of you lefties to act as though white people invented slavery or it only happened here.

Just giving you a reality check.

Slavery was not invented here. It was pretty much global and normal when white people first started coming to these shores. It was not some new idea that white people came up with here in the Americas.




You talk of those that instituted slavery in the hemisphere, and those that fought to end it in this hemisphere as though they were the same people.


Which has to be dishonest of you, as no one can be that stupid.


Right?


Lincoln, and those that followed him, so often to their deaths, deserve credit for their fight against slavery.

That you can't give it to them, because they are white, is your racism speaking.

You're wrong. The only reason Lincoln wanted to free slaves was in the hopes that they'd rise up against their masters in the South.

He wanted to end the war.

He ended up sending Sherman down south, now I've talked to a couple of old people 'round GA and they hate Sherman.


I have to side with IM2 and katsteve on that one, because they're right.

THe war wouldn't have even happened if his campaign platform was not radically anti-slavery.


Or if he was not known to be radically anti-slavery.


SUre, in the context of the moment, I'm sure he hoped that freeing the slaves might cause unrest in the South.


But ending slavery was always a long term goal of Lincoln's,

Wrong.

Right.

THe war wouldn't have even happened if his campaign platform was not radically anti-slavery.


Or if he was not known to be radically anti-slavery.


SUre, in the context of the moment, I'm sure he hoped that freeing the slaves might cause unrest in the South.


But ending slavery was always a long term goal of Lincoln's,

Blah, Blah, Blah. You are incorrect. This was shown to you. You lost.

Blah, blah, blah, you saying over and over stupid shit is not showing me anything.


YOu are the one ignoring not only his earlier words, but his campaign platform and his actions.

 

[katsteve2012]

I don't perceive katsteve as being racist like im2 is. I perceive him as being intelligent and proud of his heritage, and there's nothing wrong with that.

He's right about Lincoln's motivations during the Civil War.

Lincoln was just as racist as any of them. Believe me when I tell ya, the majority of southern plantation owners cared more for the black people around them than Lincoln.

However when that crap was legal, there were some nasty people, slave collars and all that.

There's always going to be some sick people.

Lincoln was morally opposed to slavery.

He might not have pass muster by 21st century standards, but for his time, he was a radical.


And that it the standards he should be judged by.


It is disgusting to see people who have never had to stand up against real oppression against people who were willing to fight back, to downplay and dismiss the heroism of Lincoln and those who fought and died at his command, AND those who voted for him.

Actually, Lincoln was a man of his time and thought blacks were inferior. He was conflicted and thought slavery was evil, though. My take away was that Lincoln thought that at the end of the war, all freed slaves would be repatriated "back" to Africa.

My take away is that that he considered repatriation because he didn't think that blacks and their former masters could live in peace.


But my point about being disgusted by people who have never had to stand up against real oppression against people who were willing to fight back, to downplay and dismiss the heroism of Lincoln and those who fought and died at his command, AND those who voted for him, stands.

Sure your point stands. Most delusional people believe what they imagine.

 

[Correll]

1. "Whites" made slavery legal? Someone tell that to the Ottomans. For ONE example.

2. If any voters in 1860 thought there was a bigger issue than slavery, they were fools.

So many times you chumps tell me how you were not around at certain times and since you were not around then, you don't know what the real issues were.

Wow. A supposed academic arguing AGAINST the possibility of understanding something though study....

Incredible.

Anyway, it is absurd to think that slavery was not the primary issue of the elections in 1860 or 1865.

Secondly we are talking about America not the Ottoman empire . So you can stop playing that dumb ass game you white people play when you are presented with the fact that your white asses made slavery legal in these united states.

I was responding to what you said. It is fairly common of you lefties to act as though white people invented slavery or it only happened here.

Just giving you a reality check.

Slavery was not invented here. It was pretty much global and normal when white people first started coming to these shores. It was not some new idea that white people came up with here in the Americas.

Whites made slavery legal and for whites to have corrected your fuck up is nothing to be happy about nor is it something that should be cherished or bragged about. Whites fucked up and after some 200 years whites finally decided to do something about their fuck up.

Now for you to try bragging about how a war was fought over slavery shows just how stupid whites were in this regard. They fucked up, knew they fucked up from the beginning, but yet refused to fix the fuck up until half a million of you died.

You talk of those that instituted slavery in the hemisphere, and those that fought to end it in this hemisphere as though they were the same people.


Which has to be dishonest of you, as no one can be that stupid.


Right?


Lincoln, and those that followed him, so often to their deaths, deserve credit for their fight against slavery.

That you can't give it to them, because they are white, is your racism speaking.

You're wrong. The only reason Lincoln wanted to free slaves was in the hopes that they'd rise up against their masters in the South.

He wanted to end the war.

He ended up sending Sherman down south, now I've talked to a couple of old people 'round GA and they hate Sherman.


I have to side with IM2 and katsteve on that one, because they're right.

THe war wouldn't have even happened if his campaign platform was not radically anti-slavery.


Or if he was not known to be radically anti-slavery.


SUre, in the context of the moment, I'm sure he hoped that freeing the slaves might cause unrest in the South.


But ending slavery was always a long term goal of Lincoln's,

His immediate goal was to save the union at any cost. And in his own words if he could have accomplished that goal without freeing a single slave, he would have done so.

Just because you choose to repeatedly recite revised history does not make it truth.

"
With a single mission in mind, Abraham Lincoln fought, during his entire presidency, not just against the South, but also against his critics—a cross-section of Americans that included everyone from journalists to generals. For Lincoln, the task was always to preserve the Union. In his first inaugural address, Lincoln said, “Continue to execute all the express provisions of our National Constitution, and the Union will endure forever, it being impossible to destroy it except by some action not provided for in the instrument itself.”

By the time Lincoln was sworn in as the sixteenth president on March 4, 1861, seven states—South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas—had seceded from the Union. Also by the date of Lincoln’s inauguration, this new confederacy of former states had already elected its own president, Jefferson Davis of Mississippi, the former United States senator from Mississippi and secretary of war under President Franklin Pierce. Well in advance of his first day in office, Lincoln knew he would preside over a fractious form of the once-united land. He committed himself to the preservation of the Union, but his first task was to bring it back together by whatever means necessary"
.
Source:
Abraham Lincoln Elected President, Part III: Overcoming Adversaries and Preserving the Union | National Portrait Gallery

And once again you cite his words, spoken at a time when he would be under tremendous pressure to be diplomatic with the South and/or his northern critics who might not have wanted to fight a blood war over slavery,

and ignore his words when he was not under such pressure, his campaign platform, and of course is ACTIONS AND RESULTS.



You have words to support your view.


I have words, AND formal campaign platform, AND historical policies, AND actions AND results.

 

[Correll]

THat is not only not true, but does not challenge or even address my point in the post your were supposedly responding to.


reposted here.


I have repeatedly backed up my points with documented historical quotes and ACTIONS by the people involved.

No you have not. You have only posted your opinion, and that does not qualify as a credible argument.

I've cited the Republican Party Platform of 1860, I've cited Lincoln's stated personal beliefs. I cited his actual historical ACTIONS and policies that fully demonstrate his stated personal beliefs.


NOne of that is my personal opinion.

My personal opinion is based on that, and thus supported by it, and THAT is a very credible argument.


ie That Lincoln was anti-slavery on moral grounds and fought the war to end slavery AND save the Union.

The Republican Party platform of 1860 never touched on slavery as a moral issue. The hometead act and preventing expansion of slavery into new territories for the purpose of PRESERVING THE EXISTING LABOR FORCE were their reasons.

Slavery as a moral issue? No. Thats your alternative, made up history at work. You need to attend an 8th grade remedial history class.

Abraham Lincoln said war was over taxes, not slavery

I've already posted plenty of quotes from Lincoln, from when he was not under pressure to be diplomatic with the South, expressing his deep moral opposition to slavery.

You ignore them, because Lincoln getting elected, and fighting and winning a war to free the slaves, undermines your narrative of America always being Evul and Racist.

The "Evul,(lol) Racist" narrative that you are attempting to assign to me, is YOU, projecting your butthurt, bitch tantrum over me not buying your bullshit, revisionist, dumbass "theory".

You cannot produce a single post of mine where I have expressed any such sentiment.

My position through all of your disjointed diatribes has been consistent: There is nothing anywhere thst supports your delusion that "Lincoln fought the wat to free slaves".

That is an incredibly stupid and misinformed statement on your part, and you should be embarrassed for continuing to repeat the same nonsense


Lincoln's prinary goal fron the outset was to preserve the union. First and foremost. History validates that fact, and YOU cannot change that fact.

So put away the "race card". You're wrong, misinformed and are looking foolish.

I've already posted plenty of quotes from Lincoln, from when he was not under pressure to be diplomatic with the South, expressing his deep moral opposition to slavery.

You ignore them, because Lincoln getting elected, and fighting and winning a war to free the slaves, undermines your narrative of America always being Evul and Racist.

 

[Correll]

Wow. A supposed academic arguing AGAINST the possibility of understanding something though study....

Incredible.

Anyway, it is absurd to think that slavery was not the primary issue of the elections in 1860 or 1865.

I was responding to what you said. It is fairly common of you lefties to act as though white people invented slavery or it only happened here.

Just giving you a reality check.

Slavery was not invented here. It was pretty much global and normal when white people first started coming to these shores. It was not some new idea that white people came up with here in the Americas.




You talk of those that instituted slavery in the hemisphere, and those that fought to end it in this hemisphere as though they were the same people.


Which has to be dishonest of you, as no one can be that stupid.


Right?


Lincoln, and those that followed him, so often to their deaths, deserve credit for their fight against slavery.

That you can't give it to them, because they are white, is your racism speaking.

You're wrong. The only reason Lincoln wanted to free slaves was in the hopes that they'd rise up against their masters in the South.

He wanted to end the war.

He ended up sending Sherman down south, now I've talked to a couple of old people 'round GA and they hate Sherman.


I have to side with IM2 and katsteve on that one, because they're right.

THe war wouldn't have even happened if his campaign platform was not radically anti-slavery.


Or if he was not known to be radically anti-slavery.


SUre, in the context of the moment, I'm sure he hoped that freeing the slaves might cause unrest in the South.


But ending slavery was always a long term goal of Lincoln's,

His immediate goal was to save the union at any cost. And in his own words if he could have accomplished that goal without freeing a single slave, he would have done so.

Just because you choose to repeatedly recite revised history does not make it truth.

"
With a single mission in mind, Abraham Lincoln fought, during his entire presidency, not just against the South, but also against his critics—a cross-section of Americans that included everyone from journalists to generals. For Lincoln, the task was always to preserve the Union. In his first inaugural address, Lincoln said, “Continue to execute all the express provisions of our National Constitution, and the Union will endure forever, it being impossible to destroy it except by some action not provided for in the instrument itself.”

By the time Lincoln was sworn in as the sixteenth president on March 4, 1861, seven states—South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas—had seceded from the Union. Also by the date of Lincoln’s inauguration, this new confederacy of former states had already elected its own president, Jefferson Davis of Mississippi, the former United States senator from Mississippi and secretary of war under President Franklin Pierce. Well in advance of his first day in office, Lincoln knew he would preside over a fractious form of the once-united land. He committed himself to the preservation of the Union, but his first task was to bring it back together by whatever means necessary"
.
Source:
Abraham Lincoln Elected President, Part III: Overcoming Adversaries and Preserving the Union | National Portrait Gallery

And again, you focus on his words, at the point in time when he was under tremendous pressure to walk back his threat to slavery.


And again you ignore his words, when he was NOT under such pressure, and thus far more likely to be honest,

AND you again ignore his actions, which was to end slavery.


You are engaged in an attempt to deconstruct America, and thus need to minimize Lincoln's bravery and the bravery and sacrifice of the American white citizens of the time, who fought and died to free the slaves.

Your lunacy knows no boundaries.

That is the Logical Fallacy of Proof by Ridicule.


Your post is invalid and dishonest.

My point(s) stand, completely unchallenged by your bullshit.


you focus on his words, at the point in time when he was under tremendous pressure to walk back his threat to slavery.


And again you ignore his words, when he was NOT under such pressure, and thus far more likely to be honest,

AND you again ignore his actions, which was to end slavery.


You are engaged in an attempt to deconstruct America, and thus need to minimize Lincoln's bravery and the bravery and sacrifice of the American white citizens of the time, who fought and died to free the slaves.

 

[Correll]

I don't perceive katsteve as being racist like im2 is. I perceive him as being intelligent and proud of his heritage, and there's nothing wrong with that.

He's right about Lincoln's motivations during the Civil War.

Lincoln was just as racist as any of them. Believe me when I tell ya, the majority of southern plantation owners cared more for the black people around them than Lincoln.

However when that crap was legal, there were some nasty people, slave collars and all that.

There's always going to be some sick people.

Lincoln was morally opposed to slavery.

He might not have pass muster by 21st century standards, but for his time, he was a radical.


And that it the standards he should be judged by.


It is disgusting to see people who have never had to stand up against real oppression against people who were willing to fight back, to downplay and dismiss the heroism of Lincoln and those who fought and died at his command, AND those who voted for him.

Actually, Lincoln was a man of his time and thought blacks were inferior. He was conflicted and thought slavery was evil, though. My take away was that Lincoln thought that at the end of the war, all freed slaves would be repatriated "back" to Africa.

My take away is that that he considered repatriation because he didn't think that blacks and their former masters could live in peace.


But my point about being disgusted by people who have never had to stand up against real oppression against people who were willing to fight back, to downplay and dismiss the heroism of Lincoln and those who fought and died at his command, AND those who voted for him, stands.

Sure your point stands. Most delusional people believe what they imagine.

Says a man who is completely convinced of his position.

So, if delusional people believe what they imagine, how do you know you aren't delusional?


You posted words to support your position. I posted words, and actions and results to support my position.


Liberals: All the self awareness of a turnip.

 

[katsteve2012]

So many times you chumps tell me how you were not around at certain times and since you were not around then, you don't know what the real issues were.

Wow. A supposed academic arguing AGAINST the possibility of understanding something though study....

Incredible.

Anyway, it is absurd to think that slavery was not the primary issue of the elections in 1860 or 1865.

Secondly we are talking about America not the Ottoman empire . So you can stop playing that dumb ass game you white people play when you are presented with the fact that your white asses made slavery legal in these united states.

I was responding to what you said. It is fairly common of you lefties to act as though white people invented slavery or it only happened here.

Just giving you a reality check.

Slavery was not invented here. It was pretty much global and normal when white people first started coming to these shores. It was not some new idea that white people came up with here in the Americas.

Whites made slavery legal and for whites to have corrected your fuck up is nothing to be happy about nor is it something that should be cherished or bragged about. Whites fucked up and after some 200 years whites finally decided to do something about their fuck up.

Now for you to try bragging about how a war was fought over slavery shows just how stupid whites were in this regard. They fucked up, knew they fucked up from the beginning, but yet refused to fix the fuck up until half a million of you died.

You talk of those that instituted slavery in the hemisphere, and those that fought to end it in this hemisphere as though they were the same people.


Which has to be dishonest of you, as no one can be that stupid.


Right?


Lincoln, and those that followed him, so often to their deaths, deserve credit for their fight against slavery.

That you can't give it to them, because they are white, is your racism speaking.

You're wrong. The only reason Lincoln wanted to free slaves was in the hopes that they'd rise up against their masters in the South.

He wanted to end the war.

He ended up sending Sherman down south, now I've talked to a couple of old people 'round GA and they hate Sherman.


I have to side with IM2 and katsteve on that one, because they're right.

THe war wouldn't have even happened if his campaign platform was not radically anti-slavery.


Or if he was not known to be radically anti-slavery.


SUre, in the context of the moment, I'm sure he hoped that freeing the slaves might cause unrest in the South.


But ending slavery was always a long term goal of Lincoln's,

His immediate goal was to save the union at any cost. And in his own words if he could have accomplished that goal without freeing a single slave, he would have done so.

Just because you choose to repeatedly recite revised history does not make it truth.

"
With a single mission in mind, Abraham Lincoln fought, during his entire presidency, not just against the South, but also against his critics—a cross-section of Americans that included everyone from journalists to generals. For Lincoln, the task was always to preserve the Union. In his first inaugural address, Lincoln said, “Continue to execute all the express provisions of our National Constitution, and the Union will endure forever, it being impossible to destroy it except by some action not provided for in the instrument itself.”

By the time Lincoln was sworn in as the sixteenth president on March 4, 1861, seven states—South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas—had seceded from the Union. Also by the date of Lincoln’s inauguration, this new confederacy of former states had already elected its own president, Jefferson Davis of Mississippi, the former United States senator from Mississippi and secretary of war under President Franklin Pierce. Well in advance of his first day in office, Lincoln knew he would preside over a fractious form of the once-united land. He committed himself to the preservation of the Union, but his first task was to bring it back together by whatever means necessary"
.
Source:
Abraham Lincoln Elected President, Part III: Overcoming Adversaries and Preserving the Union | National Portrait Gallery

And again, you focus on his words, at the point in time when he was under tremendous pressure to walk back his threat to slavery.


And again you ignore his words, when he was NOT under such pressure, and thus far more likely to be honest,

AND you again ignore his actions, which was to end slavery.


You are engaged in an attempt to deconstruct America, and thus need to minimize Lincoln's bravery and the bravery and sacrifice of the American white citizens of the time, who fought and died to free the slaves.

Your lunacy knows no boundaries. I don't need to "minimize" anything, especially over old history that I know and you are obviously oblivious to.

No you have not. You have only posted your opinion, and that does not qualify as a credible argument.

I've cited the Republican Party Platform of 1860, I've cited Lincoln's stated personal beliefs. I cited his actual historical ACTIONS and policies that fully demonstrate his stated personal beliefs.


NOne of that is my personal opinion.

My personal opinion is based on that, and thus supported by it, and THAT is a very credible argument.


ie That Lincoln was anti-slavery on moral grounds and fought the war to end slavery AND save the Union.

The Republican Party platform of 1860 never touched on slavery as a moral issue. The hometead act and preventing expansion of slavery into new territories for the purpose of PRESERVING THE EXISTING LABOR FORCE were their reasons.

Slavery as a moral issue? No. Thats your alternative, made up history at work. You need to attend an 8th grade remedial history class.

Abraham Lincoln said war was over taxes, not slavery

I've already posted plenty of quotes from Lincoln, from when he was not under pressure to be diplomatic with the South, expressing his deep moral opposition to slavery.

You ignore them, because Lincoln getting elected, and fighting and winning a war to free the slaves, undermines your narrative of America always being Evul and Racist.

The "Evul,(lol) Racist" narrative that you are attempting to assign to me, is YOU, projecting your butthurt, bitch tantrum over me not buying your bullshit, revisionist, dumbass "theory".

You cannot produce a single post of mine where I have expressed any such sentiment.

My position through all of your disjointed diatribes has been consistent: There is nothing anywhere thst supports your delusion that "Lincoln fought the wat to free slaves".

That is an incredibly stupid and misinformed statement on your part, and you should be embarrassed for continuing to repeat the same nonsense


Lincoln's prinary goal fron the outset was to preserve the union. First and foremost. History validates that fact, and YOU cannot change that fact.

So put away the "race card". You're wrong, misinformed and are looking foolish.

I've already posted plenty of quotes from Lincoln, from when he was not under pressure to be diplomatic with the South, expressing his deep moral opposition to slavery.

You ignore them, because Lincoln getting elected, and fighting and winning a war to free the slaves, undermines your narrative of America always being Evul and Racist.

So many times you chumps tell me how you were not around at certain times and since you were not around then, you don't know what the real issues were.

Wow. A supposed academic arguing AGAINST the possibility of understanding something though study....

Incredible.

Anyway, it is absurd to think that slavery was not the primary issue of the elections in 1860 or 1865.

Secondly we are talking about America not the Ottoman empire . So you can stop playing that dumb ass game you white people play when you are presented with the fact that your white asses made slavery legal in these united states.

I was responding to what you said. It is fairly common of you lefties to act as though white people invented slavery or it only happened here.

Just giving you a reality check.

Slavery was not invented here. It was pretty much global and normal when white people first started coming to these shores. It was not some new idea that white people came up with here in the Americas.

Whites made slavery legal and for whites to have corrected your fuck up is nothing to be happy about nor is it something that should be cherished or bragged about. Whites fucked up and after some 200 years whites finally decided to do something about their fuck up.

Now for you to try bragging about how a war was fought over slavery shows just how stupid whites were in this regard. They fucked up, knew they fucked up from the beginning, but yet refused to fix the fuck up until half a million of you died.

You talk of those that instituted slavery in the hemisphere, and those that fought to end it in this hemisphere as though they were the same people.


Which has to be dishonest of you, as no one can be that stupid.


Right?


Lincoln, and those that followed him, so often to their deaths, deserve credit for their fight against slavery.

That you can't give it to them, because they are white, is your racism speaking.

You're wrong. The only reason Lincoln wanted to free slaves was in the hopes that they'd rise up against their masters in the South.

He wanted to end the war.

He ended up sending Sherman down south, now I've talked to a couple of old people 'round GA and they hate Sherman.


I have to side with IM2 and katsteve on that one, because they're right.

THe war wouldn't have even happened if his campaign platform was not radically anti-slavery.


Or if he was not known to be radically anti-slavery.


SUre, in the context of the moment, I'm sure he hoped that freeing the slaves might cause unrest in the South.


But ending slavery was always a long term goal of Lincoln's,

His immediate goal was to save the union at any cost. And in his own words if he could have accomplished that goal without freeing a single slave, he would have done so.

Just because you choose to repeatedly recite revised history does not make it truth.

"
With a single mission in mind, Abraham Lincoln fought, during his entire presidency, not just against the South, but also against his critics—a cross-section of Americans that included everyone from journalists to generals. For Lincoln, the task was always to preserve the Union. In his first inaugural address, Lincoln said, “Continue to execute all the express provisions of our National Constitution, and the Union will endure forever, it being impossible to destroy it except by some action not provided for in the instrument itself.”

By the time Lincoln was sworn in as the sixteenth president on March 4, 1861, seven states—South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas—had seceded from the Union. Also by the date of Lincoln’s inauguration, this new confederacy of former states had already elected its own president, Jefferson Davis of Mississippi, the former United States senator from Mississippi and secretary of war under President Franklin Pierce. Well in advance of his first day in office, Lincoln knew he would preside over a fractious form of the once-united land. He committed himself to the preservation of the Union, but his first task was to bring it back together by whatever means necessary"
.
Source:
Abraham Lincoln Elected President, Part III: Overcoming Adversaries and Preserving the Union | National Portrait Gallery

And again, you focus on his words, at the point in time when he was under tremendous pressure to walk back his threat to slavery.


And again you ignore his words, when he was NOT under such pressure, and thus far more likely to be honest,

AND you again ignore his actions, which was to end slavery.


You are engaged in an attempt to deconstruct America, and thus need to minimize Lincoln's bravery and the bravery and sacrifice of the American white citizens of the time, who fought and died to free the slaves.

The war was fought to save the union, and the only thing being "deconstructed" here is your made up nonsense which is based on what you have "assumed" Lincolns intent was through your own warped interpretation of events that have been historically recorded in a completely different context than what you have the apptitude to even comprehend.

The root cause of your ignorance is that to your unethical, disingenuous core you believe that black citizens of today owe a debt of gratitude for a war that was fought to preserve a union that they remained 2nd class citizens in for 100 years after the war ended....and thats some stupid bullshit. You also think that ANY gains, no matter what they are that have been recognized by black citizens since then, have been at the expense of white people. Lincoln WAS NOT "radically anti slavery" in fact he was viewed by many as neutral on the subject.

If you find that statement to be offensive, too fucking bad. Thats truth, and you cannot change it.

 

[katsteve2012]

So many times you chumps tell me how you were not around at certain times and since you were not around then, you don't know what the real issues were.

Wow. A supposed academic arguing AGAINST the possibility of understanding something though study....

Incredible.

Anyway, it is absurd to think that slavery was not the primary issue of the elections in 1860 or 1865.

Secondly we are talking about America not the Ottoman empire . So you can stop playing that dumb ass game you white people play when you are presented with the fact that your white asses made slavery legal in these united states.

I was responding to what you said. It is fairly common of you lefties to act as though white people invented slavery or it only happened here.

Just giving you a reality check.

Slavery was not invented here. It was pretty much global and normal when white people first started coming to these shores. It was not some new idea that white people came up with here in the Americas.

Whites made slavery legal and for whites to have corrected your fuck up is nothing to be happy about nor is it something that should be cherished or bragged about. Whites fucked up and after some 200 years whites finally decided to do something about their fuck up.

Now for you to try bragging about how a war was fought over slavery shows just how stupid whites were in this regard. They fucked up, knew they fucked up from the beginning, but yet refused to fix the fuck up until half a million of you died.

You talk of those that instituted slavery in the hemisphere, and those that fought to end it in this hemisphere as though they were the same people.


Which has to be dishonest of you, as no one can be that stupid.


Right?


Lincoln, and those that followed him, so often to their deaths, deserve credit for their fight against slavery.

That you can't give it to them, because they are white, is your racism speaking.

You're wrong. The only reason Lincoln wanted to free slaves was in the hopes that they'd rise up against their masters in the South.

He wanted to end the war.

He ended up sending Sherman down south, now I've talked to a couple of old people 'round GA and they hate Sherman.


I have to side with IM2 and katsteve on that one, because they're right.

THe war wouldn't have even happened if his campaign platform was not radically anti-slavery.


Or if he was not known to be radically anti-slavery.


SUre, in the context of the moment, I'm sure he hoped that freeing the slaves might cause unrest in the South.


But ending slavery was always a long term goal of Lincoln's,

His immediate goal was to save the union at any cost. And in his own words if he could have accomplished that goal without freeing a single slave, he would have done so.

Just because you choose to repeatedly recite revised history does not make it truth.

"
With a single mission in mind, Abraham Lincoln fought, during his entire presidency, not just against the South, but also against his critics—a cross-section of Americans that included everyone from journalists to generals. For Lincoln, the task was always to preserve the Union. In his first inaugural address, Lincoln said, “Continue to execute all the express provisions of our National Constitution, and the Union will endure forever, it being impossible to destroy it except by some action not provided for in the instrument itself.”

By the time Lincoln was sworn in as the sixteenth president on March 4, 1861, seven states—South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas—had seceded from the Union. Also by the date of Lincoln’s inauguration, this new confederacy of former states had already elected its own president, Jefferson Davis of Mississippi, the former United States senator from Mississippi and secretary of war under President Franklin Pierce. Well in advance of his first day in office, Lincoln knew he would preside over a fractious form of the once-united land. He committed himself to the preservation of the Union, but his first task was to bring it back together by whatever means necessary"
.
Source:
Abraham Lincoln Elected President, Part III: Overcoming Adversaries and Preserving the Union | National Portrait Gallery

And once again you cite his words, spoken at a time when he would be under tremendous pressure to be diplomatic with the South and/or his northern critics who might not have wanted to fight a blood war over slavery,

and ignore his words when he was not under such pressure, his campaign platform, and of course is ACTIONS AND RESULTS.



You have words to support your view.


I have words, AND formal campaign platform, AND historical policies, AND actions AND results.

So many times you chumps tell me how you were not around at certain times and since you were not around then, you don't know what the real issues were.

Wow. A supposed academic arguing AGAINST the possibility of understanding something though study....

Incredible.

Anyway, it is absurd to think that slavery was not the primary issue of the elections in 1860 or 1865.

Secondly we are talking about America not the Ottoman empire . So you can stop playing that dumb ass game you white people play when you are presented with the fact that your white asses made slavery legal in these united states.

I was responding to what you said. It is fairly common of you lefties to act as though white people invented slavery or it only happened here.

Just giving you a reality check.

Slavery was not invented here. It was pretty much global and normal when white people first started coming to these shores. It was not some new idea that white people came up with here in the Americas.

Whites made slavery legal and for whites to have corrected your fuck up is nothing to be happy about nor is it something that should be cherished or bragged about. Whites fucked up and after some 200 years whites finally decided to do something about their fuck up.

Now for you to try bragging about how a war was fought over slavery shows just how stupid whites were in this regard. They fucked up, knew they fucked up from the beginning, but yet refused to fix the fuck up until half a million of you died.

You talk of those that instituted slavery in the hemisphere, and those that fought to end it in this hemisphere as though they were the same people.


Which has to be dishonest of you, as no one can be that stupid.


Right?


Lincoln, and those that followed him, so often to their deaths, deserve credit for their fight against slavery.

That you can't give it to them, because they are white, is your racism speaking.

You're wrong. The only reason Lincoln wanted to free slaves was in the hopes that they'd rise up against their masters in the South.

He wanted to end the war.

He ended up sending Sherman down south, now I've talked to a couple of old people 'round GA and they hate Sherman.


I have to side with IM2 and katsteve on that one, because they're right.

THe war wouldn't have even happened if his campaign platform was not radically anti-slavery.


Or if he was not known to be radically anti-slavery.


SUre, in the context of the moment, I'm sure he hoped that freeing the slaves might cause unrest in the South.


But ending slavery was always a long term goal of Lincoln's,

His immediate goal was to save the union at any cost. And in his own words if he could have accomplished that goal without freeing a single slave, he would have done so.

Just because you choose to repeatedly recite revised history does not make it truth.

"
With a single mission in mind, Abraham Lincoln fought, during his entire presidency, not just against the South, but also against his critics—a cross-section of Americans that included everyone from journalists to generals. For Lincoln, the task was always to preserve the Union. In his first inaugural address, Lincoln said, “Continue to execute all the express provisions of our National Constitution, and the Union will endure forever, it being impossible to destroy it except by some action not provided for in the instrument itself.”

By the time Lincoln was sworn in as the sixteenth president on March 4, 1861, seven states—South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas—had seceded from the Union. Also by the date of Lincoln’s inauguration, this new confederacy of former states had already elected its own president, Jefferson Davis of Mississippi, the former United States senator from Mississippi and secretary of war under President Franklin Pierce. Well in advance of his first day in office, Lincoln knew he would preside over a fractious form of the once-united land. He committed himself to the preservation of the Union, but his first task was to bring it back together by whatever means necessary"
.
Source:
Abraham Lincoln Elected President, Part III: Overcoming Adversaries and Preserving the Union | National Portrait Gallery

And once again you cite his words, spoken at a time when he would be under tremendous pressure to be diplomatic with the South and/or his northern critics who might not have wanted to fight a blood war over slavery,

and ignore his words when he was not under such pressure, his campaign platform, and of course is ACTIONS AND RESULTS.



You have words to support your view.


I have words, AND formal campaign platform, AND historical policies, AND actions AND results.

Quite the opposite. Words that I have posted have been copied directly from historical facts and numerous sites that I have posted and you have ignored.

*Here is the Republican platform of 1860. See if you can find anything that speaks to "moral opposition" to slavery. You won't because it is not there.
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=29620

*Historical policy? Blacks were HISTORICALLY equivalent to farm animals at that time so WTF are you saying?

*Actions? He kept the union whole, and that was his intent from the outset.

*Results? Slaves were freed by default and then promptly introduced to Jim Crow laws which in many ways were equally as oppresive as slavery.


Now what?

 

[katsteve2012]

I don't perceive katsteve as being racist like im2 is. I perceive him as being intelligent and proud of his heritage, and there's nothing wrong with that.

He's right about Lincoln's motivations during the Civil War.

Lincoln was just as racist as any of them. Believe me when I tell ya, the majority of southern plantation owners cared more for the black people around them than Lincoln.

However when that crap was legal, there were some nasty people, slave collars and all that.

There's always going to be some sick people.

Lincoln was morally opposed to slavery.

He might not have pass muster by 21st century standards, but for his time, he was a radical.


And that it the standards he should be judged by.


It is disgusting to see people who have never had to stand up against real oppression against people who were willing to fight back, to downplay and dismiss the heroism of Lincoln and those who fought and died at his command, AND those who voted for him.

Actually, Lincoln was a man of his time and thought blacks were inferior. He was conflicted and thought slavery was evil, though. My take away was that Lincoln thought that at the end of the war, all freed slaves would be repatriated "back" to Africa.

My take away is that that he considered repatriation because he didn't think that blacks and their former masters could live in peace.


But my point about being disgusted by people who have never had to stand up against real oppression against people who were willing to fight back, to downplay and dismiss the heroism of Lincoln and those who fought and died at his command, AND those who voted for him, stands.

Sure your point stands. Most delusional people believe what they imagine.

Says a man who is completely convinced of his position.

So, if delusional people believe what they imagine, how do you know you aren't delusional?


You posted words to support your position. I posted words, and actions and results to support my position.


Liberals: All the self awareness of a turnip.

Im not a liberal, you fool. And I have posted link after link that illustrate what Lincolns intent was during his campaign AND during his time in office.

It is not my problem that you have chosen to remain ignorantly misinformed. His words, actions and results all were consistent with realigning the union. Moral opposition was NOT a factor in the campaign of 1860 and was not ANYWHERE in the Republican platform as you imagined.

So yes. Delusional fits you perfectly.

 

[katsteve2012]

I don't perceive katsteve as being racist like im2 is. I perceive him as being intelligent and proud of his heritage, and there's nothing wrong with that.

He's right about Lincoln's motivations during the Civil War.

Lincoln was just as racist as any of them. Believe me when I tell ya, the majority of southern plantation owners cared more for the black people around them than Lincoln.

However when that crap was legal, there were some nasty people, slave collars and all that.

There's always going to be some sick people.

Thanks MM. Corrells problem is that he believes that any accomplishment by Black Americans has come at the expense of white people.

He believes that black people collectively should revere and worship Lincoln for "waging a war to free the slaves" and also worship the "great white men" who sacrificed themselves by voting him into office.....even though no one except white men were allowed to vote at the time. (SMGDH)

Correll is a frustrated white dude with a god complex, and has no subservient blacks at his disposal to humor him and his psychosis.

He really should have been born in a bygone era when he could have been guaranteed by law that he was better than the most accomplished black man.

But unfortunately for him, that is not his reality.

Poor Correll.

That aside, I dont think that IM2 is a racist, as I have never seen him post anything that indicates that he views himself as superior to anyone with race being the determinant of that sentiment.

 

[IM2]

Liberal has nothing to do with this. I'm a liberal and I agree with Katsteve who is not. Conservatives like you ant to revise history to take out anything unflattering to whites. This is why they are working real hard in every state to get textbooks changed. That's all you are trying to do here. But you have been rejected. Not only by Katsteve and I but your fellow conservative whites.

 

[IM2]

I'd like to know what makes Morrison, a white man, think he can determine that I am not proud of my heritage because I point out white racism and how whites like him continue to benefit from it..

 

[Marion Morrison]

I'd like to know what makes Morrison, a white man, think he can determine that I am not proud of my heritage because I point out white racism and how whites like him continue to benefit from it..

Oh, idk, maybe it's the reparations thing.

 

[IM2]

I'd like to know what makes Morrison, a white man, think he can determine that I am not proud of my heritage because I point out white racism and how whites like him continue to benefit from it..

Oh, idk, maybe it's the reparations thing.

So in your mind I am not proud of my heritage for saying that we deserve reparations for at least 241 years of continuing white racism we have faced. Especially when all others who got done badly have gotten and still get reparations.

 

[bgrouse]

I'd like to know what makes Morrison, a white man, think he can determine that I am not proud of my heritage because I point out white racism and how whites like him continue to benefit from it..

Oh, idk, maybe it's the reparations thing.

So in your mind I am not proud of my heritage for saying that we deserve reparations for at least 241 years of continuing white racism we have faced. Especially when all others who got done badly have gotten and still get reparations.

Why do you think you deserve reparations for the fact that some other people are racist? If someone calls me a mean, racist name while I'm walking outside, do I deserve reparations for it?

 

[IM2]

I'd like to know what makes Morrison, a white man, think he can determine that I am not proud of my heritage because I point out white racism and how whites like him continue to benefit from it..

Oh, idk, maybe it's the reparations thing.

So in your mind I am not proud of my heritage for saying that we deserve reparations for at least 241 years of continuing white racism we have faced. Especially when all others who got done badly have gotten and still get reparations.

Why do you think you deserve reparations for the fact that some other people are racist? If someone calls me a mean, racist name while I'm walking outside, do I deserve reparations for it?

You are a dumb ass.. I mean straight out ignorant. I am talking about us getting reparations due to things that occurred because of institutional policy and government laws at every level that denied blacks and still do. Someone calling me a racist name while I'm walking outside does not deny me a job.

 

[bgrouse]

I'd like to know what makes Morrison, a white man, think he can determine that I am not proud of my heritage because I point out white racism and how whites like him continue to benefit from it..

Oh, idk, maybe it's the reparations thing.

So in your mind I am not proud of my heritage for saying that we deserve reparations for at least 241 years of continuing white racism we have faced. Especially when all others who got done badly have gotten and still get reparations.

Why do you think you deserve reparations for the fact that some other people are racist? If someone calls me a mean, racist name while I'm walking outside, do I deserve reparations for it?

You are a dumb ass.. I mean straight out ignorant. I am talking about us getting reparations due to things that occurred because of institutional policy and government laws at every level that denied blacks and still do. Someone calling me a racist name while I'm walking outside does not deny me a job.

Can you quote one of these current or recent policies and laws denying blacks jobs? Or are we talking ancient history here?

 

[Correll]

Wow. A supposed academic arguing AGAINST the possibility of understanding something though study....

Incredible.

Anyway, it is absurd to think that slavery was not the primary issue of the elections in 1860 or 1865.

I was responding to what you said. It is fairly common of you lefties to act as though white people invented slavery or it only happened here.

Just giving you a reality check.

Slavery was not invented here. It was pretty much global and normal when white people first started coming to these shores. It was not some new idea that white people came up with here in the Americas.




You talk of those that instituted slavery in the hemisphere, and those that fought to end it in this hemisphere as though they were the same people.


Which has to be dishonest of you, as no one can be that stupid.


Right?


Lincoln, and those that followed him, so often to their deaths, deserve credit for their fight against slavery.

That you can't give it to them, because they are white, is your racism speaking.

You're wrong. The only reason Lincoln wanted to free slaves was in the hopes that they'd rise up against their masters in the South.

He wanted to end the war.

He ended up sending Sherman down south, now I've talked to a couple of old people 'round GA and they hate Sherman.


I have to side with IM2 and katsteve on that one, because they're right.

THe war wouldn't have even happened if his campaign platform was not radically anti-slavery.


Or if he was not known to be radically anti-slavery.


SUre, in the context of the moment, I'm sure he hoped that freeing the slaves might cause unrest in the South.


But ending slavery was always a long term goal of Lincoln's,

His immediate goal was to save the union at any cost. And in his own words if he could have accomplished that goal without freeing a single slave, he would have done so.

Just because you choose to repeatedly recite revised history does not make it truth.

"
With a single mission in mind, Abraham Lincoln fought, during his entire presidency, not just against the South, but also against his critics—a cross-section of Americans that included everyone from journalists to generals. For Lincoln, the task was always to preserve the Union. In his first inaugural address, Lincoln said, “Continue to execute all the express provisions of our National Constitution, and the Union will endure forever, it being impossible to destroy it except by some action not provided for in the instrument itself.”

By the time Lincoln was sworn in as the sixteenth president on March 4, 1861, seven states—South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas—had seceded from the Union. Also by the date of Lincoln’s inauguration, this new confederacy of former states had already elected its own president, Jefferson Davis of Mississippi, the former United States senator from Mississippi and secretary of war under President Franklin Pierce. Well in advance of his first day in office, Lincoln knew he would preside over a fractious form of the once-united land. He committed himself to the preservation of the Union, but his first task was to bring it back together by whatever means necessary"
.
Source:
Abraham Lincoln Elected President, Part III: Overcoming Adversaries and Preserving the Union | National Portrait Gallery

And again, you focus on his words, at the point in time when he was under tremendous pressure to walk back his threat to slavery.


And again you ignore his words, when he was NOT under such pressure, and thus far more likely to be honest,

AND you again ignore his actions, which was to end slavery.


You are engaged in an attempt to deconstruct America, and thus need to minimize Lincoln's bravery and the bravery and sacrifice of the American white citizens of the time, who fought and died to free the slaves.

Your lunacy knows no boundaries. I don't need to "minimize" anything, especially over old history that I know and you are obviously oblivious to.

I've cited the Republican Party Platform of 1860, I've cited Lincoln's stated personal beliefs. I cited his actual historical ACTIONS and policies that fully demonstrate his stated personal beliefs.


NOne of that is my personal opinion.

My personal opinion is based on that, and thus supported by it, and THAT is a very credible argument.


ie That Lincoln was anti-slavery on moral grounds and fought the war to end slavery AND save the Union.

The Republican Party platform of 1860 never touched on slavery as a moral issue. The hometead act and preventing expansion of slavery into new territories for the purpose of PRESERVING THE EXISTING LABOR FORCE were their reasons.

Slavery as a moral issue? No. Thats your alternative, made up history at work. You need to attend an 8th grade remedial history class.

Abraham Lincoln said war was over taxes, not slavery

I've already posted plenty of quotes from Lincoln, from when he was not under pressure to be diplomatic with the South, expressing his deep moral opposition to slavery.

You ignore them, because Lincoln getting elected, and fighting and winning a war to free the slaves, undermines your narrative of America always being Evul and Racist.

The "Evul,(lol) Racist" narrative that you are attempting to assign to me, is YOU, projecting your butthurt, bitch tantrum over me not buying your bullshit, revisionist, dumbass "theory".

You cannot produce a single post of mine where I have expressed any such sentiment.

My position through all of your disjointed diatribes has been consistent: There is nothing anywhere thst supports your delusion that "Lincoln fought the wat to free slaves".

That is an incredibly stupid and misinformed statement on your part, and you should be embarrassed for continuing to repeat the same nonsense


Lincoln's prinary goal fron the outset was to preserve the union. First and foremost. History validates that fact, and YOU cannot change that fact.

So put away the "race card". You're wrong, misinformed and are looking foolish.

I've already posted plenty of quotes from Lincoln, from when he was not under pressure to be diplomatic with the South, expressing his deep moral opposition to slavery.

You ignore them, because Lincoln getting elected, and fighting and winning a war to free the slaves, undermines your narrative of America always being Evul and Racist.

Wow. A supposed academic arguing AGAINST the possibility of understanding something though study....

Incredible.

Anyway, it is absurd to think that slavery was not the primary issue of the elections in 1860 or 1865.

I was responding to what you said. It is fairly common of you lefties to act as though white people invented slavery or it only happened here.

Just giving you a reality check.

Slavery was not invented here. It was pretty much global and normal when white people first started coming to these shores. It was not some new idea that white people came up with here in the Americas.




You talk of those that instituted slavery in the hemisphere, and those that fought to end it in this hemisphere as though they were the same people.


Which has to be dishonest of you, as no one can be that stupid.


Right?


Lincoln, and those that followed him, so often to their deaths, deserve credit for their fight against slavery.

That you can't give it to them, because they are white, is your racism speaking.

You're wrong. The only reason Lincoln wanted to free slaves was in the hopes that they'd rise up against their masters in the South.

He wanted to end the war.

He ended up sending Sherman down south, now I've talked to a couple of old people 'round GA and they hate Sherman.


I have to side with IM2 and katsteve on that one, because they're right.

THe war wouldn't have even happened if his campaign platform was not radically anti-slavery.


Or if he was not known to be radically anti-slavery.


SUre, in the context of the moment, I'm sure he hoped that freeing the slaves might cause unrest in the South.


But ending slavery was always a long term goal of Lincoln's,

His immediate goal was to save the union at any cost. And in his own words if he could have accomplished that goal without freeing a single slave, he would have done so.

Just because you choose to repeatedly recite revised history does not make it truth.

"
With a single mission in mind, Abraham Lincoln fought, during his entire presidency, not just against the South, but also against his critics—a cross-section of Americans that included everyone from journalists to generals. For Lincoln, the task was always to preserve the Union. In his first inaugural address, Lincoln said, “Continue to execute all the express provisions of our National Constitution, and the Union will endure forever, it being impossible to destroy it except by some action not provided for in the instrument itself.”

By the time Lincoln was sworn in as the sixteenth president on March 4, 1861, seven states—South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas—had seceded from the Union. Also by the date of Lincoln’s inauguration, this new confederacy of former states had already elected its own president, Jefferson Davis of Mississippi, the former United States senator from Mississippi and secretary of war under President Franklin Pierce. Well in advance of his first day in office, Lincoln knew he would preside over a fractious form of the once-united land. He committed himself to the preservation of the Union, but his first task was to bring it back together by whatever means necessary"
.
Source:
Abraham Lincoln Elected President, Part III: Overcoming Adversaries and Preserving the Union | National Portrait Gallery

And again, you focus on his words, at the point in time when he was under tremendous pressure to walk back his threat to slavery.


And again you ignore his words, when he was NOT under such pressure, and thus far more likely to be honest,

AND you again ignore his actions, which was to end slavery.


You are engaged in an attempt to deconstruct America, and thus need to minimize Lincoln's bravery and the bravery and sacrifice of the American white citizens of the time, who fought and died to free the slaves.

The war was fought to save the union, and the only thing being "deconstructed" here is your made up nonsense which is based on what you have "assumed" Lincolns intent was through your own warped interpretation of events that have been historically recorded in a completely different context than what you have the apptitude to even comprehend.

The root cause of your ignorance is that to your unethical, disingenuous core you believe that black citizens of today owe a debt of gratitude for a war that was fought to preserve a union that they remained 2nd class citizens in for 100 years after the war ended....and thats some stupid bullshit. You also think that ANY gains, no matter what they are that have been recognized by black citizens since then, have been at the expense of white people. Lincoln WAS NOT "radically anti slavery" in fact he was viewed by many as neutral on the subject.

If you find that statement to be offensive, too fucking bad. Thats truth, and you cannot change it.

The war was fought over slavery.

Your inability to show gratitude to those who fought and died for your ancestors is a lack of character on your part.

That blacks did not go from slavery to equality as defined by a 21st century lefty is no excuse for your behavior.

This guy was viewed as "neutral" on slavery?

LOL!!!

Those who consider or considered him "neutral" on the subject are fools.

 

[Correll]

Wow. A supposed academic arguing AGAINST the possibility of understanding something though study....

Incredible.

Anyway, it is absurd to think that slavery was not the primary issue of the elections in 1860 or 1865.

I was responding to what you said. It is fairly common of you lefties to act as though white people invented slavery or it only happened here.

Just giving you a reality check.

Slavery was not invented here. It was pretty much global and normal when white people first started coming to these shores. It was not some new idea that white people came up with here in the Americas.




You talk of those that instituted slavery in the hemisphere, and those that fought to end it in this hemisphere as though they were the same people.


Which has to be dishonest of you, as no one can be that stupid.


Right?


Lincoln, and those that followed him, so often to their deaths, deserve credit for their fight against slavery.

That you can't give it to them, because they are white, is your racism speaking.

You're wrong. The only reason Lincoln wanted to free slaves was in the hopes that they'd rise up against their masters in the South.

He wanted to end the war.

He ended up sending Sherman down south, now I've talked to a couple of old people 'round GA and they hate Sherman.


I have to side with IM2 and katsteve on that one, because they're right.

THe war wouldn't have even happened if his campaign platform was not radically anti-slavery.


Or if he was not known to be radically anti-slavery.


SUre, in the context of the moment, I'm sure he hoped that freeing the slaves might cause unrest in the South.


But ending slavery was always a long term goal of Lincoln's,

His immediate goal was to save the union at any cost. And in his own words if he could have accomplished that goal without freeing a single slave, he would have done so.

Just because you choose to repeatedly recite revised history does not make it truth.

"
With a single mission in mind, Abraham Lincoln fought, during his entire presidency, not just against the South, but also against his critics—a cross-section of Americans that included everyone from journalists to generals. For Lincoln, the task was always to preserve the Union. In his first inaugural address, Lincoln said, “Continue to execute all the express provisions of our National Constitution, and the Union will endure forever, it being impossible to destroy it except by some action not provided for in the instrument itself.”

By the time Lincoln was sworn in as the sixteenth president on March 4, 1861, seven states—South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas—had seceded from the Union. Also by the date of Lincoln’s inauguration, this new confederacy of former states had already elected its own president, Jefferson Davis of Mississippi, the former United States senator from Mississippi and secretary of war under President Franklin Pierce. Well in advance of his first day in office, Lincoln knew he would preside over a fractious form of the once-united land. He committed himself to the preservation of the Union, but his first task was to bring it back together by whatever means necessary"
.
Source:
Abraham Lincoln Elected President, Part III: Overcoming Adversaries and Preserving the Union | National Portrait Gallery

And once again you cite his words, spoken at a time when he would be under tremendous pressure to be diplomatic with the South and/or his northern critics who might not have wanted to fight a blood war over slavery,

and ignore his words when he was not under such pressure, his campaign platform, and of course is ACTIONS AND RESULTS.



You have words to support your view.


I have words, AND formal campaign platform, AND historical policies, AND actions AND results.

Wow. A supposed academic arguing AGAINST the possibility of understanding something though study....

Incredible.

Anyway, it is absurd to think that slavery was not the primary issue of the elections in 1860 or 1865.

I was responding to what you said. It is fairly common of you lefties to act as though white people invented slavery or it only happened here.

Just giving you a reality check.

Slavery was not invented here. It was pretty much global and normal when white people first started coming to these shores. It was not some new idea that white people came up with here in the Americas.




You talk of those that instituted slavery in the hemisphere, and those that fought to end it in this hemisphere as though they were the same people.


Which has to be dishonest of you, as no one can be that stupid.


Right?


Lincoln, and those that followed him, so often to their deaths, deserve credit for their fight against slavery.

That you can't give it to them, because they are white, is your racism speaking.

You're wrong. The only reason Lincoln wanted to free slaves was in the hopes that they'd rise up against their masters in the South.

He wanted to end the war.

He ended up sending Sherman down south, now I've talked to a couple of old people 'round GA and they hate Sherman.


I have to side with IM2 and katsteve on that one, because they're right.

THe war wouldn't have even happened if his campaign platform was not radically anti-slavery.


Or if he was not known to be radically anti-slavery.


SUre, in the context of the moment, I'm sure he hoped that freeing the slaves might cause unrest in the South.


But ending slavery was always a long term goal of Lincoln's,

His immediate goal was to save the union at any cost. And in his own words if he could have accomplished that goal without freeing a single slave, he would have done so.

Just because you choose to repeatedly recite revised history does not make it truth.

"
With a single mission in mind, Abraham Lincoln fought, during his entire presidency, not just against the South, but also against his critics—a cross-section of Americans that included everyone from journalists to generals. For Lincoln, the task was always to preserve the Union. In his first inaugural address, Lincoln said, “Continue to execute all the express provisions of our National Constitution, and the Union will endure forever, it being impossible to destroy it except by some action not provided for in the instrument itself.”

By the time Lincoln was sworn in as the sixteenth president on March 4, 1861, seven states—South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas—had seceded from the Union. Also by the date of Lincoln’s inauguration, this new confederacy of former states had already elected its own president, Jefferson Davis of Mississippi, the former United States senator from Mississippi and secretary of war under President Franklin Pierce. Well in advance of his first day in office, Lincoln knew he would preside over a fractious form of the once-united land. He committed himself to the preservation of the Union, but his first task was to bring it back together by whatever means necessary"
.
Source:
Abraham Lincoln Elected President, Part III: Overcoming Adversaries and Preserving the Union | National Portrait Gallery

And once again you cite his words, spoken at a time when he would be under tremendous pressure to be diplomatic with the South and/or his northern critics who might not have wanted to fight a blood war over slavery,

and ignore his words when he was not under such pressure, his campaign platform, and of course is ACTIONS AND RESULTS.



You have words to support your view.


I have words, AND formal campaign platform, AND historical policies, AND actions AND results.

Quite the opposite. Words that I have posted have been copied directly from historical facts and numerous sites that I have posted and you have ignored.

*Here is the Republican platform of 1860. See if you can find anything that speaks to "moral opposition" to slavery. You won't because it is not there.
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=29620

*Historical policy? Blacks were HISTORICALLY equivalent to farm animals at that time so WTF are you saying?

*Actions? He kept the union whole, and that was his intent from the outset.

*Results? Slaves were freed by default and then promptly introduced to Jim Crow laws which in many ways were equally as oppresive as slavery.


Now what?

HIs policy of having all new states enter the Union as Free States, was a direct and existential threat to slavery.

THe Slave states knew that, and that was one of the reasons they rose up in rebellion.

No. It was NOT an overt declaration of "moral opposition" to slavery. (it was far more than that)

That you asked for that was a dishonest dodge on your part.

The slavers saw it for what it was. The End of Their World.



His actions I was referring to was that he ended slavery in America. Funny that you failed to mention that.


REeeeeaaaalll funny....