"What To The Slave Is The 4th Of July?"

[Correll]

THat is not only not true, but does not challenge or even address my point in the post your were supposedly responding to.


reposted here.


I have repeatedly backed up my points with documented historical quotes and ACTIONS by the people involved.

No you have not. You have only posted your opinion, and that does not qualify as a credible argument.

I've cited the Republican Party Platform of 1860, I've cited Lincoln's stated personal beliefs. I cited his actual historical ACTIONS and policies that fully demonstrate his stated personal beliefs.


NOne of that is my personal opinion.

My personal opinion is based on that, and thus supported by it, and THAT is a very credible argument.


ie That Lincoln was anti-slavery on moral grounds and fought the war to end slavery AND save the Union.

No it's not a credible argument it is a laughable one at best. Lincolns stated words was that his goal was to save the union. That's was it. You can't put other words in his mouth just because you can't deal with the truth.

You are cherry picking his qoutes, ignoring context AND ignoring his actual actions and results.

Lincoln let some states keep their slaves in exchange for joining the union.

And how long did that last?

 

[IM2]

Yes you're trying to give credit where It's not deserved.

You need to understand one simple reality correll. Whites made slavery legal. That was a mistake, they fucked up, it was stupid, dumb, a flawed decision. So for you to act like it was some fucking great noble deed for whites to correct their own fuck up is just as stupid. Nobody owes any debt of gratitude to white people for deciding to do what os right. Why should we be grateful? What the fuck s going through your mid? That we backs should be happy because we could still be saves or something? Because that's all you're trying to say here.

The truth s that Lincoln was not elected either time because of his claimed anti slavery stance. The war was fought to preserve the union. The only reason Lincoln was elected a second time was that the north pulled out a couple of victories in the war because the North wanted tp stop fighting. Now you can lie to yourself all you want. You can post extra large pictures all you want, but I know that Lincoln did not fight t end slavery, that he saw blacks as inferior and he was a racist.

1. "Whites" made slavery legal? Someone tell that to the Ottomans. For ONE example.

2. If any voters in 1860 thought there was a bigger issue than slavery, they were fools.

So many times you chumps tell me how you were not around at certain times and since you were not around then, you don't know what the real issues were.

Wow. A supposed academic arguing AGAINST the possibility of understanding something though study....

Incredible.

Anyway, it is absurd to think that slavery was not the primary issue of the elections in 1860 or 1865.

Secondly we are talking about America not the Ottoman empire . So you can stop playing that dumb ass game you white people play when you are presented with the fact that your white asses made slavery legal in these united states.

I was responding to what you said. It is fairly common of you lefties to act as though white people invented slavery or it only happened here.

Just giving you a reality check.

Slavery was not invented here. It was pretty much global and normal when white people first started coming to these shores. It was not some new idea that white people came up with here in the Americas.

Whites made slavery legal and for whites to have corrected your fuck up is nothing to be happy about nor is it something that should be cherished or bragged about. Whites fucked up and after some 200 years whites finally decided to do something about their fuck up.

Now for you to try bragging about how a war was fought over slavery shows just how stupid whites were in this regard. They fucked up, knew they fucked up from the beginning, but yet refused to fix the fuck up until half a million of you died.

You talk of those that instituted slavery in the hemisphere, and those that fought to end it in this hemisphere as though they were the same people.


Which has to be dishonest of you, as no one can be that stupid.


Right?


Lincoln, and those that followed him, so often to their deaths, deserve credit for their fight against slavery.

That you can't give it to them, because they are white, is your racism speaking.

You're wrong. The only reason Lincoln wanted to free slaves was in the hopes that they'd rise up against their masters in the South.

He wanted to end the war.

He ended up sending Sherman down south, now I've talked to a couple of old people 'round GA and they hate Sherman.


I have to side with IM2 and katsteve on that one, because they're right.

THe war wouldn't have even happened if his campaign platform was not radically anti-slavery.


Or if he was not known to be radically anti-slavery.


SUre, in the context of the moment, I'm sure he hoped that freeing the slaves might cause unrest in the South.


But ending slavery was always a long term goal of Lincoln's,

Wrong.

 

[Correll]

I have repeatedly backed up my points with documented historical quotes and ACTIONS by the people involved.


You are lying.

Obviously you are not capable of distinguishing the difference between "your opinion" and a "documented fact".

THat is not only not true, but does not challenge or even address my point in the post your were supposedly responding to.


reposted here.


I have repeatedly backed up my points with documented historical quotes and ACTIONS by the people involved.

No you have not. You have only posted your opinion, and that does not qualify as a credible argument.

I've cited the Republican Party Platform of 1860, I've cited Lincoln's stated personal beliefs. I cited his actual historical ACTIONS and policies that fully demonstrate his stated personal beliefs.


NOne of that is my personal opinion.

My personal opinion is based on that, and thus supported by it, and THAT is a very credible argument.


ie That Lincoln was anti-slavery on moral grounds and fought the war to end slavery AND save the Union.

The Republican Party platform of 1860 never touched on slavery as a moral issue. The hometead act and preventing expansion of slavery into new territories for the purpose of PRESERVING THE EXISTING LABOR FORCE were their reasons.

Slavery as a moral issue? No. Thats your alternative, made up history at work. You need to attend an 8th grade remedial history class.

Abraham Lincoln said war was over taxes, not slavery

I've already posted plenty of quotes from Lincoln, from when he was not under pressure to be diplomatic with the South, expressing his deep moral opposition to slavery.

You ignore them, because Lincoln getting elected, and fighting and winning a war to free the slaves, undermines your narrative of America always being Evul and Racist.

 

[Correll]

1. "Whites" made slavery legal? Someone tell that to the Ottomans. For ONE example.

2. If any voters in 1860 thought there was a bigger issue than slavery, they were fools.

So many times you chumps tell me how you were not around at certain times and since you were not around then, you don't know what the real issues were.

Wow. A supposed academic arguing AGAINST the possibility of understanding something though study....

Incredible.

Anyway, it is absurd to think that slavery was not the primary issue of the elections in 1860 or 1865.

Secondly we are talking about America not the Ottoman empire . So you can stop playing that dumb ass game you white people play when you are presented with the fact that your white asses made slavery legal in these united states.

I was responding to what you said. It is fairly common of you lefties to act as though white people invented slavery or it only happened here.

Just giving you a reality check.

Slavery was not invented here. It was pretty much global and normal when white people first started coming to these shores. It was not some new idea that white people came up with here in the Americas.

Whites made slavery legal and for whites to have corrected your fuck up is nothing to be happy about nor is it something that should be cherished or bragged about. Whites fucked up and after some 200 years whites finally decided to do something about their fuck up.

Now for you to try bragging about how a war was fought over slavery shows just how stupid whites were in this regard. They fucked up, knew they fucked up from the beginning, but yet refused to fix the fuck up until half a million of you died.

You talk of those that instituted slavery in the hemisphere, and those that fought to end it in this hemisphere as though they were the same people.


Which has to be dishonest of you, as no one can be that stupid.


Right?


Lincoln, and those that followed him, so often to their deaths, deserve credit for their fight against slavery.

That you can't give it to them, because they are white, is your racism speaking.

You're wrong. The only reason Lincoln wanted to free slaves was in the hopes that they'd rise up against their masters in the South.

He wanted to end the war.

He ended up sending Sherman down south, now I've talked to a couple of old people 'round GA and they hate Sherman.


I have to side with IM2 and katsteve on that one, because they're right.

THe war wouldn't have even happened if his campaign platform was not radically anti-slavery.


Or if he was not known to be radically anti-slavery.


SUre, in the context of the moment, I'm sure he hoped that freeing the slaves might cause unrest in the South.


But ending slavery was always a long term goal of Lincoln's,

Wrong.

Right.

THe war wouldn't have even happened if his campaign platform was not radically anti-slavery.


Or if he was not known to be radically anti-slavery.


SUre, in the context of the moment, I'm sure he hoped that freeing the slaves might cause unrest in the South.


But ending slavery was always a long term goal of Lincoln's,

 

[IM2]

Obviously you are not capable of distinguishing the difference between "your opinion" and a "documented fact".

THat is not only not true, but does not challenge or even address my point in the post your were supposedly responding to.


reposted here.


I have repeatedly backed up my points with documented historical quotes and ACTIONS by the people involved.

No you have not. You have only posted your opinion, and that does not qualify as a credible argument.

I've cited the Republican Party Platform of 1860, I've cited Lincoln's stated personal beliefs. I cited his actual historical ACTIONS and policies that fully demonstrate his stated personal beliefs.


NOne of that is my personal opinion.

My personal opinion is based on that, and thus supported by it, and THAT is a very credible argument.


ie That Lincoln was anti-slavery on moral grounds and fought the war to end slavery AND save the Union.

The Republican Party platform of 1860 never touched on slavery as a moral issue. The hometead act and preventing expansion of slavery into new territories for the purpose of PRESERVING THE EXISTING LABOR FORCE were their reasons.

Slavery as a moral issue? No. Thats your alternative, made up history at work. You need to attend an 8th grade remedial history class.

Abraham Lincoln said war was over taxes, not slavery

I've already posted plenty of quotes from Lincoln, from when he was not under pressure to be diplomatic with the South, expressing his deep moral opposition to slavery.

You ignore them, because Lincoln getting elected, and fighting and winning a war to free the slaves, undermines your narrative of America always being Evul and Racist.

No it really doesn't. Because there was this 100 year period after slavery and that ended with MLK and others getting us the right to vote completely with no obstacles, the end of school segregation and unequal facilities based on race, the civil rights act which allowed us equal protection under the law, fair housing instead of racist housing policies, the EEOC which makes certain we get a true change at equal opportunity, just to name a few. Therefore your false narrative of America pertaining to whites fighting for the rights of blacks for geneations is what's undermined here.

 

[IM2]

So many times you chumps tell me how you were not around at certain times and since you were not around then, you don't know what the real issues were.

Wow. A supposed academic arguing AGAINST the possibility of understanding something though study....

Incredible.

Anyway, it is absurd to think that slavery was not the primary issue of the elections in 1860 or 1865.

Secondly we are talking about America not the Ottoman empire . So you can stop playing that dumb ass game you white people play when you are presented with the fact that your white asses made slavery legal in these united states.

I was responding to what you said. It is fairly common of you lefties to act as though white people invented slavery or it only happened here.

Just giving you a reality check.

Slavery was not invented here. It was pretty much global and normal when white people first started coming to these shores. It was not some new idea that white people came up with here in the Americas.

Whites made slavery legal and for whites to have corrected your fuck up is nothing to be happy about nor is it something that should be cherished or bragged about. Whites fucked up and after some 200 years whites finally decided to do something about their fuck up.

Now for you to try bragging about how a war was fought over slavery shows just how stupid whites were in this regard. They fucked up, knew they fucked up from the beginning, but yet refused to fix the fuck up until half a million of you died.

You talk of those that instituted slavery in the hemisphere, and those that fought to end it in this hemisphere as though they were the same people.


Which has to be dishonest of you, as no one can be that stupid.


Right?


Lincoln, and those that followed him, so often to their deaths, deserve credit for their fight against slavery.

That you can't give it to them, because they are white, is your racism speaking.

You're wrong. The only reason Lincoln wanted to free slaves was in the hopes that they'd rise up against their masters in the South.

He wanted to end the war.

He ended up sending Sherman down south, now I've talked to a couple of old people 'round GA and they hate Sherman.


I have to side with IM2 and katsteve on that one, because they're right.

THe war wouldn't have even happened if his campaign platform was not radically anti-slavery.


Or if he was not known to be radically anti-slavery.


SUre, in the context of the moment, I'm sure he hoped that freeing the slaves might cause unrest in the South.


But ending slavery was always a long term goal of Lincoln's,

Wrong.

Right.

THe war wouldn't have even happened if his campaign platform was not radically anti-slavery.


Or if he was not known to be radically anti-slavery.


SUre, in the context of the moment, I'm sure he hoped that freeing the slaves might cause unrest in the South.


But ending slavery was always a long term goal of Lincoln's,

Blah, Blah, Blah. You are incorrect. This was shown to you. You lost.

 

[bgrouse]

No you have not. You have only posted your opinion, and that does not qualify as a credible argument.

I've cited the Republican Party Platform of 1860, I've cited Lincoln's stated personal beliefs. I cited his actual historical ACTIONS and policies that fully demonstrate his stated personal beliefs.


NOne of that is my personal opinion.

My personal opinion is based on that, and thus supported by it, and THAT is a very credible argument.


ie That Lincoln was anti-slavery on moral grounds and fought the war to end slavery AND save the Union.

No it's not a credible argument it is a laughable one at best. Lincolns stated words was that his goal was to save the union. That's was it. You can't put other words in his mouth just because you can't deal with the truth.

You are cherry picking his qoutes, ignoring context AND ignoring his actual actions and results.

Lincoln let some states keep their slaves in exchange for joining the union.

And how long did that last?

Long enough for him to consolidate his power.
I never said he wasn't a ****** lover. He was just torn between that love and his love of murdering whites.

 

[Marion Morrison]

Lincoln fucked whores and would have been dead from syphillis within 2 weeks if he hadn't have been shot.

It's kind of like McCain, you have to wonder how much in the right mind they are.

 

[katsteve2012]

Yes you're trying to give credit where It's not deserved.

You need to understand one simple reality correll. Whites made slavery legal. That was a mistake, they fucked up, it was stupid, dumb, a flawed decision. So for you to act like it was some fucking great noble deed for whites to correct their own fuck up is just as stupid. Nobody owes any debt of gratitude to white people for deciding to do what os right. Why should we be grateful? What the fuck s going through your mid? That we backs should be happy because we could still be saves or something? Because that's all you're trying to say here.

The truth s that Lincoln was not elected either time because of his claimed anti slavery stance. The war was fought to preserve the union. The only reason Lincoln was elected a second time was that the north pulled out a couple of victories in the war because the North wanted tp stop fighting. Now you can lie to yourself all you want. You can post extra large pictures all you want, but I know that Lincoln did not fight t end slavery, that he saw blacks as inferior and he was a racist.

1. "Whites" made slavery legal? Someone tell that to the Ottomans. For ONE example.

2. If any voters in 1860 thought there was a bigger issue than slavery, they were fools.

So many times you chumps tell me how you were not around at certain times and since you were not around then, you don't know what the real issues were.

Wow. A supposed academic arguing AGAINST the possibility of understanding something though study....

Incredible.

Anyway, it is absurd to think that slavery was not the primary issue of the elections in 1860 or 1865.

Secondly we are talking about America not the Ottoman empire . So you can stop playing that dumb ass game you white people play when you are presented with the fact that your white asses made slavery legal in these united states.

I was responding to what you said. It is fairly common of you lefties to act as though white people invented slavery or it only happened here.

Just giving you a reality check.

Slavery was not invented here. It was pretty much global and normal when white people first started coming to these shores. It was not some new idea that white people came up with here in the Americas.

Whites made slavery legal and for whites to have corrected your fuck up is nothing to be happy about nor is it something that should be cherished or bragged about. Whites fucked up and after some 200 years whites finally decided to do something about their fuck up.

Now for you to try bragging about how a war was fought over slavery shows just how stupid whites were in this regard. They fucked up, knew they fucked up from the beginning, but yet refused to fix the fuck up until half a million of you died.

You talk of those that instituted slavery in the hemisphere, and those that fought to end it in this hemisphere as though they were the same people.


Which has to be dishonest of you, as no one can be that stupid.


Right?


Lincoln, and those that followed him, so often to their deaths, deserve credit for their fight against slavery.

That you can't give it to them, because they are white, is your racism speaking.

You're wrong. The only reason Lincoln wanted to free slaves was in the hopes that they'd rise up against their masters in the South.

He wanted to end the war.

He ended up sending Sherman down south, now I've talked to a couple of old people 'round GA and they hate Sherman.


I have to side with IM2 and katsteve on that one, because they're right.

THe war wouldn't have even happened if his campaign platform was not radically anti-slavery.


Or if he was not known to be radically anti-slavery.


SUre, in the context of the moment, I'm sure he hoped that freeing the slaves might cause unrest in the South.


But ending slavery was always a long term goal of Lincoln's,

His immediate goal was to save the union at any cost. And in his own words if he could have accomplished that goal without freeing a single slave, he would have done so.

Just because you choose to repeatedly recite revised history does not make it truth.

"
With a single mission in mind, Abraham Lincoln fought, during his entire presidency, not just against the South, but also against his critics—a cross-section of Americans that included everyone from journalists to generals. For Lincoln, the task was always to preserve the Union. In his first inaugural address, Lincoln said, “Continue to execute all the express provisions of our National Constitution, and the Union will endure forever, it being impossible to destroy it except by some action not provided for in the instrument itself.”

By the time Lincoln was sworn in as the sixteenth president on March 4, 1861, seven states—South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas—had seceded from the Union. Also by the date of Lincoln’s inauguration, this new confederacy of former states had already elected its own president, Jefferson Davis of Mississippi, the former United States senator from Mississippi and secretary of war under President Franklin Pierce. Well in advance of his first day in office, Lincoln knew he would preside over a fractious form of the once-united land. He committed himself to the preservation of the Union, but his first task was to bring it back together by whatever means necessary"
.
Source:
Abraham Lincoln Elected President, Part III: Overcoming Adversaries and Preserving the Union | National Portrait Gallery

 

[katsteve2012]

Obviously you are not capable of distinguishing the difference between "your opinion" and a "documented fact".

THat is not only not true, but does not challenge or even address my point in the post your were supposedly responding to.


reposted here.


I have repeatedly backed up my points with documented historical quotes and ACTIONS by the people involved.

No you have not. You have only posted your opinion, and that does not qualify as a credible argument.

I've cited the Republican Party Platform of 1860, I've cited Lincoln's stated personal beliefs. I cited his actual historical ACTIONS and policies that fully demonstrate his stated personal beliefs.


NOne of that is my personal opinion.

My personal opinion is based on that, and thus supported by it, and THAT is a very credible argument.


ie That Lincoln was anti-slavery on moral grounds and fought the war to end slavery AND save the Union.

The Republican Party platform of 1860 never touched on slavery as a moral issue. The hometead act and preventing expansion of slavery into new territories for the purpose of PRESERVING THE EXISTING LABOR FORCE were their reasons.

Slavery as a moral issue? No. Thats your alternative, made up history at work. You need to attend an 8th grade remedial history class.

Abraham Lincoln said war was over taxes, not slavery

I've already posted plenty of quotes from Lincoln, from when he was not under pressure to be diplomatic with the South, expressing his deep moral opposition to slavery.

You ignore them, because Lincoln getting elected, and fighting and winning a war to free the slaves, undermines your narrative of America always being Evul and Racist.

The "Evul,(lol) Racist" narrative that you are attempting to assign to me, is YOU, projecting your butthurt, bitch tantrum over me not buying your bullshit, revisionist, dumbass "theory".

You cannot produce a single post of mine where I have expressed any such sentiment.

My position through all of your disjointed diatribes has been consistent: There is nothing anywhere thst supports your delusion that "Lincoln fought the wat to free slaves".

That is an incredibly stupid and misinformed statement on your part, and you should be embarrassed for continuing to repeat the same nonsense


Lincoln's prinary goal fron the outset was to preserve the union. First and foremost. History validates that fact, and YOU cannot change that fact.

So put away the "race card". You're wrong, misinformed and are looking foolish.

 

[katsteve2012]

Wow. A supposed academic arguing AGAINST the possibility of understanding something though study....

Incredible.

Anyway, it is absurd to think that slavery was not the primary issue of the elections in 1860 or 1865.

I was responding to what you said. It is fairly common of you lefties to act as though white people invented slavery or it only happened here.

Just giving you a reality check.

Slavery was not invented here. It was pretty much global and normal when white people first started coming to these shores. It was not some new idea that white people came up with here in the Americas.




You talk of those that instituted slavery in the hemisphere, and those that fought to end it in this hemisphere as though they were the same people.


Which has to be dishonest of you, as no one can be that stupid.


Right?


Lincoln, and those that followed him, so often to their deaths, deserve credit for their fight against slavery.

That you can't give it to them, because they are white, is your racism speaking.

You're wrong. The only reason Lincoln wanted to free slaves was in the hopes that they'd rise up against their masters in the South.

He wanted to end the war.

He ended up sending Sherman down south, now I've talked to a couple of old people 'round GA and they hate Sherman.


I have to side with IM2 and katsteve on that one, because they're right.

THe war wouldn't have even happened if his campaign platform was not radically anti-slavery.


Or if he was not known to be radically anti-slavery.


SUre, in the context of the moment, I'm sure he hoped that freeing the slaves might cause unrest in the South.


But ending slavery was always a long term goal of Lincoln's,

Wrong.

Right.

THe war wouldn't have even happened if his campaign platform was not radically anti-slavery.


Or if he was not known to be radically anti-slavery.


SUre, in the context of the moment, I'm sure he hoped that freeing the slaves might cause unrest in the South.


But ending slavery was always a long term goal of Lincoln's,

Blah, Blah, Blah. You are incorrect. This was shown to you. You lost.

Indeed it was. Over and over. But ibtellectuslly dishonest individuals will normally deny and deflect facts, but will also defend their own abject stupidity.

 

[Marion Morrison]

I don't perceive katsteve as being racist like im2 is. I perceive him as being intelligent and proud of his heritage, and there's nothing wrong with that.

He's right about Lincoln's motivations during the Civil War.

Lincoln was just as racist as any of them. Believe me when I tell ya, the majority of southern plantation owners cared more for the black people around them than Lincoln.

However when that crap was legal, there were some nasty people, slave collars and all that.

There's always going to be some sick people.

 

[Correll]

1. "Whites" made slavery legal? Someone tell that to the Ottomans. For ONE example.

2. If any voters in 1860 thought there was a bigger issue than slavery, they were fools.

So many times you chumps tell me how you were not around at certain times and since you were not around then, you don't know what the real issues were.

Wow. A supposed academic arguing AGAINST the possibility of understanding something though study....

Incredible.

Anyway, it is absurd to think that slavery was not the primary issue of the elections in 1860 or 1865.

Secondly we are talking about America not the Ottoman empire . So you can stop playing that dumb ass game you white people play when you are presented with the fact that your white asses made slavery legal in these united states.

I was responding to what you said. It is fairly common of you lefties to act as though white people invented slavery or it only happened here.

Just giving you a reality check.

Slavery was not invented here. It was pretty much global and normal when white people first started coming to these shores. It was not some new idea that white people came up with here in the Americas.

Whites made slavery legal and for whites to have corrected your fuck up is nothing to be happy about nor is it something that should be cherished or bragged about. Whites fucked up and after some 200 years whites finally decided to do something about their fuck up.

Now for you to try bragging about how a war was fought over slavery shows just how stupid whites were in this regard. They fucked up, knew they fucked up from the beginning, but yet refused to fix the fuck up until half a million of you died.

You talk of those that instituted slavery in the hemisphere, and those that fought to end it in this hemisphere as though they were the same people.


Which has to be dishonest of you, as no one can be that stupid.


Right?


Lincoln, and those that followed him, so often to their deaths, deserve credit for their fight against slavery.

That you can't give it to them, because they are white, is your racism speaking.

You're wrong. The only reason Lincoln wanted to free slaves was in the hopes that they'd rise up against their masters in the South.

He wanted to end the war.

He ended up sending Sherman down south, now I've talked to a couple of old people 'round GA and they hate Sherman.


I have to side with IM2 and katsteve on that one, because they're right.

THe war wouldn't have even happened if his campaign platform was not radically anti-slavery.


Or if he was not known to be radically anti-slavery.


SUre, in the context of the moment, I'm sure he hoped that freeing the slaves might cause unrest in the South.


But ending slavery was always a long term goal of Lincoln's,

His immediate goal was to save the union at any cost. And in his own words if he could have accomplished that goal without freeing a single slave, he would have done so.

Just because you choose to repeatedly recite revised history does not make it truth.

"
With a single mission in mind, Abraham Lincoln fought, during his entire presidency, not just against the South, but also against his critics—a cross-section of Americans that included everyone from journalists to generals. For Lincoln, the task was always to preserve the Union. In his first inaugural address, Lincoln said, “Continue to execute all the express provisions of our National Constitution, and the Union will endure forever, it being impossible to destroy it except by some action not provided for in the instrument itself.”

By the time Lincoln was sworn in as the sixteenth president on March 4, 1861, seven states—South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas—had seceded from the Union. Also by the date of Lincoln’s inauguration, this new confederacy of former states had already elected its own president, Jefferson Davis of Mississippi, the former United States senator from Mississippi and secretary of war under President Franklin Pierce. Well in advance of his first day in office, Lincoln knew he would preside over a fractious form of the once-united land. He committed himself to the preservation of the Union, but his first task was to bring it back together by whatever means necessary"
.
Source:
Abraham Lincoln Elected President, Part III: Overcoming Adversaries and Preserving the Union | National Portrait Gallery

And again, you focus on his words, at the point in time when he was under tremendous pressure to walk back his threat to slavery.


And again you ignore his words, when he was NOT under such pressure, and thus far more likely to be honest,

AND you again ignore his actions, which was to end slavery.


You are engaged in an attempt to deconstruct America, and thus need to minimize Lincoln's bravery and the bravery and sacrifice of the American white citizens of the time, who fought and died to free the slaves.

 

[Correll]

THat is not only not true, but does not challenge or even address my point in the post your were supposedly responding to.


reposted here.


I have repeatedly backed up my points with documented historical quotes and ACTIONS by the people involved.

No you have not. You have only posted your opinion, and that does not qualify as a credible argument.

I've cited the Republican Party Platform of 1860, I've cited Lincoln's stated personal beliefs. I cited his actual historical ACTIONS and policies that fully demonstrate his stated personal beliefs.


NOne of that is my personal opinion.

My personal opinion is based on that, and thus supported by it, and THAT is a very credible argument.


ie That Lincoln was anti-slavery on moral grounds and fought the war to end slavery AND save the Union.

The Republican Party platform of 1860 never touched on slavery as a moral issue. The hometead act and preventing expansion of slavery into new territories for the purpose of PRESERVING THE EXISTING LABOR FORCE were their reasons.

Slavery as a moral issue? No. Thats your alternative, made up history at work. You need to attend an 8th grade remedial history class.

Abraham Lincoln said war was over taxes, not slavery

I've already posted plenty of quotes from Lincoln, from when he was not under pressure to be diplomatic with the South, expressing his deep moral opposition to slavery.

You ignore them, because Lincoln getting elected, and fighting and winning a war to free the slaves, undermines your narrative of America always being Evul and Racist.

The "Evul,(lol) Racist" narrative that you are attempting to assign to me, is YOU, projecting your butthurt, bitch tantrum over me not buying your bullshit, revisionist, dumbass "theory".

You cannot produce a single post of mine where I have expressed any such sentiment.

My position through all of your disjointed diatribes has been consistent: There is nothing anywhere thst supports your delusion that "Lincoln fought the wat to free slaves".

That is an incredibly stupid and misinformed statement on your part, and you should be embarrassed for continuing to repeat the same nonsense


Lincoln's prinary goal fron the outset was to preserve the union. First and foremost. History validates that fact, and YOU cannot change that fact.

So put away the "race card". You're wrong, misinformed and are looking foolish.

I've already posted plenty of quotes from Lincoln, from when he was not under pressure to be diplomatic with the South, expressing his deep moral opposition to slavery.

You ignore them, because Lincoln getting elected, and fighting and winning a war to free the slaves, undermines your narrative of America always being Evul and Racist.

 

[Correll]

I don't perceive katsteve as being racist like im2 is. I perceive him as being intelligent and proud of his heritage, and there's nothing wrong with that.

He's right about Lincoln's motivations during the Civil War.

Lincoln was just as racist as any of them. Believe me when I tell ya, the majority of southern plantation owners cared more for the black people around them than Lincoln.

However when that crap was legal, there were some nasty people, slave collars and all that.

There's always going to be some sick people.

Lincoln was morally opposed to slavery.

He might not have pass muster by 21st century standards, but for his time, he was a radical.


And that it the standards he should be judged by.


It is disgusting to see people who have never had to stand up against real oppression against people who were willing to fight back, to downplay and dismiss the heroism of Lincoln and those who fought and died at his command, AND those who voted for him.

 

[MaryL]

I don't perceive katsteve as being racist like im2 is. I perceive him as being intelligent and proud of his heritage, and there's nothing wrong with that.

He's right about Lincoln's motivations during the Civil War.

Lincoln was just as racist as any of them. Believe me when I tell ya, the majority of southern plantation owners cared more for the black people around them than Lincoln.

However when that crap was legal, there were some nasty people, slave collars and all that.

There's always going to be some sick people.

Lincoln was morally opposed to slavery.

He might not have pass muster by 21st century standards, but for his time, he was a radical.


And that it the standards he should be judged by.


It is disgusting to see people who have never had to stand up against real oppression against people who were willing to fight back, to downplay and dismiss the heroism of Lincoln and those who fought and died at his command, AND those who voted for him.

Actually, Lincoln was a man of his time and thought blacks were inferior. He was conflicted and thought slavery was evil, though. My take away was that Lincoln thought that at the end of the war, all freed slaves would be repatriated "back" to Africa.

 

[katsteve2012]

I don't perceive katsteve as being racist like im2 is. I perceive him as being intelligent and proud of his heritage, and there's nothing wrong with that.

He's right about Lincoln's motivations during the Civil War.

Lincoln was just as racist as any of them. Believe me when I tell ya, the majority of southern plantation owners cared more for the black people around them than Lincoln.

However when that crap was legal, there were some nasty people, slave collars and all that.

There's always going to be some sick people.

Lincoln was morally opposed to slavery.

He might not have pass muster by 21st century standards, but for his time, he was a radical.


And that it the standards he should be judged by.


It is disgusting to see people who have never had to stand up against real oppression against people who were willing to fight back, to downplay and dismiss the heroism of Lincoln and those who fought and died at his command, AND those who voted for him.

I finally realize that this is not an act on your part. You are a nutcase living in an alternate reality where real facts have no merit.

You really are not even capable of reading and understanding elementary level history, are you?

It is absolutely astonishing that someone could be as misinformed and as willfully ignorant as you are in an age of easily accessible information.

That in itself is far more digusting than anyones refusal to give Lincoln accolades just to appease the likes of you.

Now. On the subject of experiencing REAL oppression, are you actually stupid enough to believe that just casting a vote Lincoln was heroic?

 

[katsteve2012]

I don't perceive katsteve as being racist like im2 is. I perceive him as being intelligent and proud of his heritage, and there's nothing wrong with that.

He's right about Lincoln's motivations during the Civil War.

Lincoln was just as racist as any of them. Believe me when I tell ya, the majority of southern plantation owners cared more for the black people around them than Lincoln.

However when that crap was legal, there were some nasty people, slave collars and all that.

There's always going to be some sick people.

Lincoln was morally opposed to slavery.

He might not have pass muster by 21st century standards, but for his time, he was a radical.


And that it the standards he should be judged by.


It is disgusting to see people who have never had to stand up against real oppression against people who were willing to fight back, to downplay and dismiss the heroism of Lincoln and those who fought and died at his command, AND those who voted for him.

Actually, Lincoln was a man of his time and thought blacks were inferior. He was conflicted and thought slavery was evil, though. My take away was that Lincoln thought that at the end of the war, all freed slaves would be repatriated "back" to Africa.

In his own words........."I can think of no greater calamity than the assimilation of Blacks into society as equals to whites"

 

[Correll]

I don't perceive katsteve as being racist like im2 is. I perceive him as being intelligent and proud of his heritage, and there's nothing wrong with that.

He's right about Lincoln's motivations during the Civil War.

Lincoln was just as racist as any of them. Believe me when I tell ya, the majority of southern plantation owners cared more for the black people around them than Lincoln.

However when that crap was legal, there were some nasty people, slave collars and all that.

There's always going to be some sick people.

Lincoln was morally opposed to slavery.

He might not have pass muster by 21st century standards, but for his time, he was a radical.


And that it the standards he should be judged by.


It is disgusting to see people who have never had to stand up against real oppression against people who were willing to fight back, to downplay and dismiss the heroism of Lincoln and those who fought and died at his command, AND those who voted for him.

Actually, Lincoln was a man of his time and thought blacks were inferior. He was conflicted and thought slavery was evil, though. My take away was that Lincoln thought that at the end of the war, all freed slaves would be repatriated "back" to Africa.

My take away is that that he considered repatriation because he didn't think that blacks and their former masters could live in peace.


But my point about being disgusted by people who have never had to stand up against real oppression against people who were willing to fight back, to downplay and dismiss the heroism of Lincoln and those who fought and died at his command, AND those who voted for him, stands.

 

[katsteve2012]

So many times you chumps tell me how you were not around at certain times and since you were not around then, you don't know what the real issues were.

Wow. A supposed academic arguing AGAINST the possibility of understanding something though study....

Incredible.

Anyway, it is absurd to think that slavery was not the primary issue of the elections in 1860 or 1865.

Secondly we are talking about America not the Ottoman empire . So you can stop playing that dumb ass game you white people play when you are presented with the fact that your white asses made slavery legal in these united states.

I was responding to what you said. It is fairly common of you lefties to act as though white people invented slavery or it only happened here.

Just giving you a reality check.

Slavery was not invented here. It was pretty much global and normal when white people first started coming to these shores. It was not some new idea that white people came up with here in the Americas.

Whites made slavery legal and for whites to have corrected your fuck up is nothing to be happy about nor is it something that should be cherished or bragged about. Whites fucked up and after some 200 years whites finally decided to do something about their fuck up.

Now for you to try bragging about how a war was fought over slavery shows just how stupid whites were in this regard. They fucked up, knew they fucked up from the beginning, but yet refused to fix the fuck up until half a million of you died.

You talk of those that instituted slavery in the hemisphere, and those that fought to end it in this hemisphere as though they were the same people.


Which has to be dishonest of you, as no one can be that stupid.


Right?


Lincoln, and those that followed him, so often to their deaths, deserve credit for their fight against slavery.

That you can't give it to them, because they are white, is your racism speaking.

You're wrong. The only reason Lincoln wanted to free slaves was in the hopes that they'd rise up against their masters in the South.

He wanted to end the war.

He ended up sending Sherman down south, now I've talked to a couple of old people 'round GA and they hate Sherman.


I have to side with IM2 and katsteve on that one, because they're right.

THe war wouldn't have even happened if his campaign platform was not radically anti-slavery.


Or if he was not known to be radically anti-slavery.


SUre, in the context of the moment, I'm sure he hoped that freeing the slaves might cause unrest in the South.


But ending slavery was always a long term goal of Lincoln's,

His immediate goal was to save the union at any cost. And in his own words if he could have accomplished that goal without freeing a single slave, he would have done so.

Just because you choose to repeatedly recite revised history does not make it truth.

"
With a single mission in mind, Abraham Lincoln fought, during his entire presidency, not just against the South, but also against his critics—a cross-section of Americans that included everyone from journalists to generals. For Lincoln, the task was always to preserve the Union. In his first inaugural address, Lincoln said, “Continue to execute all the express provisions of our National Constitution, and the Union will endure forever, it being impossible to destroy it except by some action not provided for in the instrument itself.”

By the time Lincoln was sworn in as the sixteenth president on March 4, 1861, seven states—South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas—had seceded from the Union. Also by the date of Lincoln’s inauguration, this new confederacy of former states had already elected its own president, Jefferson Davis of Mississippi, the former United States senator from Mississippi and secretary of war under President Franklin Pierce. Well in advance of his first day in office, Lincoln knew he would preside over a fractious form of the once-united land. He committed himself to the preservation of the Union, but his first task was to bring it back together by whatever means necessary"
.
Source:
Abraham Lincoln Elected President, Part III: Overcoming Adversaries and Preserving the Union | National Portrait Gallery

And again, you focus on his words, at the point in time when he was under tremendous pressure to walk back his threat to slavery.


And again you ignore his words, when he was NOT under such pressure, and thus far more likely to be honest,

AND you again ignore his actions, which was to end slavery.


You are engaged in an attempt to deconstruct America, and thus need to minimize Lincoln's bravery and the bravery and sacrifice of the American white citizens of the time, who fought and died to free the slaves.

Your lunacy knows no boundaries.