What is "Unfettered Capitalism"?

[RodISHI]

We see how self regulating it is by looking at China, India or 19th century America. Anyone that thinks it is self regulating knows nothing of what they're talking about.

Government and unions are needed for capitalism to be fair to the worker. One of the big reasons we did so good as a nation in the 40's into the 60's was because of this fact. Today? The rich have taken it all and moved operations to china.

Unions are so unnecessary, profit or unionization take your pick... Can not coexist.
No reason to start a business without profit...

Exactly. Even if I could from the corruption I have seen take place I wouldn't at this point. If someone can work their whole lives and be stomped through illegal and illegitimate means and law enforcers won't do jacksh** about why go there in the first place. Both parties gave away the country and they now fully intend on making the rest of the herd compliant whether they like it or not. The upper class is now middle class, middle class are now at poverty levels and the whole corporate group is mending their fences to insure you all stay enclosed.

 

[The Rabbi]

Capitalism is a self regulating system. Charge too much, someone will undercut you. Deliver bad goods/services? People will stop buying. Cheat someone? Expect a big lawsuit.The problems that people cite with "capitalism" usually are the result of lack of capitalism, i.e. gov't intrusion. Capitalism has raised standards of living and brought people out of poverty. Why would anyone want to fetter that?

What if there's no one else to buy or get services from because unfettered(unregulated) capitalism has driven out all the competition? There's also the matter of pollution and unsafe working conditions. Unfettered capitalism considers worrying about them to be unproductive and therefore ignores their effects.

Never happens. Never. The only examples of no competition occur in markets that are regulated by the government

 

[Iceweasel]

Capitalism is a self regulating system. Charge too much, someone will undercut you. Deliver bad goods/services? People will stop buying. Cheat someone? Expect a big lawsuit.
The problems that people cite with "capitalism" usually are the result of lack of capitalism, i.e. gov't intrusion.
Capitalism has raised standards of living and brought people out of poverty. Why would anyone want to fetter that?

The only period of time that we have come close to unfettered capitalism was in the early part of 19th century before labor unions and government regulations, a time when the middle class hardly existed, a time when the wealthy controlled government, a time of little upward mobility, and a time when the rape of the environment was a source of pride. Unfettered capitalism spawns corruption. At its best, capitalism dramatically improves lives; at its worst, left unchecked, capitalism ravages the environment, oppresses individuals, and destroys culture.

Nope. Those tycoons owned politicians and were very involved with how laws were made, when and where. That's as close to fascism as it gets.

 

[RodISHI]

Unfettered capitalism doesn't remain capitalism for long.
As soon as we allow unfettered capitalism to exist, business interests begin to fetter it, with monopolies, price fixing, tainted foods shoddy merchandise and it is no longer capitalism. Regulation is to keep capitalism alive and well; unfettered capitalism means to destroy capitalism.
Unfettered capitalism is similar to the name: monopolistic-capitalism, or uncompetitive- capitalism.

My point exactly. Just about the only place you will get unfettered capitalism is at an art fair, the farmers market, craigs list, or ebay.

It's total bullshit. That's the kind of shallow propaganda that all leftists believe because they're stupid and incredibly ignorant.

We have monopolies in America, now. The playing field has been made unlevel by banks and institutions too big to fail, in case you didn't catch that about seven years ago.

New deal is their farm program (chemical bs and genetic modified bs) is too big to fail.

 

[The Rabbi]

The capitalism might have worked (in an extremely 'impure' form) for a while, but it's not a sustainable system. There is no endless growth, there are no endless resources. We are killing the planet by over-consuming cheap nasty crap that ends up sooner or later as trash. We need to go back to quality over quantity and more local/production/consumption. Luxuries should really be luxuries and necessities necessities ... I see it already happening. Development is headed that way. Plus governmental intervention is extremely important - it's in fact the people/citizens - making sure that the water is drinkable and the air is breathable - that all of the necessities and resources are not destroyed in the blind race after profit as has been done and is being done by unscrupulous corporations.

Capitalism is soon going to give way to some other system. It has to, our survival on this planet actually depends on it.

That was debunked about 30 years ago in a famous known as the Simon-Erlich wager.

 

[regent]

Unfettered capitalism doesn't remain capitalism for long.
As soon as we allow unfettered capitalism to exist, business interests begin to fetter it, with monopolies, price fixing, tainted foods shoddy merchandise and it is no longer capitalism. Regulation is to keep capitalism alive and well; unfettered capitalism means to destroy capitalism.
Unfettered capitalism is similar to the name: monopolistic-capitalism, or uncompetitive- capitalism.

All you're saying is that democracy is inherently corrupt. True, democracies will always devolve into socialism/fascism. That's a problem with democracy, not capitalism. Monopolies can only exist if government enforces them by law. "Price fixing" has never worked unless enforced by law. That's what FDR tried to do with the NRA. It was all a vast price fixing scheme.

Companies that sell tainted food can be sued, and the ones that shell shoddy merchandise go out of business. Where do you find shoddy merchandise, in capitalist countries or socialist countries. If you want a perfect example of shoddy merchandise, check out the cars they made in the Soviet Union.

All your claims are Marxist anti-capitalist propaganda that was shot down long ago.

If one sues a company that sells tainted food and the court orders the company to stop, would that be a form of fettered capitalism?
Should the government be involved with pure food and drugs? Is that fettered capitalism?
Why is the government still involved in the manufacture of American cars in American factories, is that form of fettered capitalism?
As for Marx, why hasn't his prediction of dialectical materialism come to pass? Was it fettered capitalism.
Can you name any of the nations today that practice unfettered capitalism?

 

[amrchaos]

We see how self regulating it is by looking at China, India or 19th century America. Anyone that thinks it is self regulating knows nothing of what they're talking about.

Government and unions are needed for capitalism to be fair to the worker. One of the big reasons we did so good as a nation in the 40's into the 60's was because of this fact. Today? The rich have taken it all and moved operations to china.

China and India are communist/socialist countries, doofus.

yes, they are yet we still buy inferior and dangerous goods from China and both countries suck up industrial jobs like a mop from more capitalist nations.

If capitalism was self regulating, why are the communist/socialists countries being rewarded by it?

The capitalism they do practice is how they pay the bills. America votes with its' dollars. People don't want to pay for high priced union made goods if they have an option. That's a fact. Also over regulation is killing business. People think if you're in business you are wealthy and can afford to hand over more and more money to government.

So poisonous dry wall,lead laced paint and toothpaste is preferable? Sweat shops and cheating of migrant workers out of their pay is preferable? Devaluation of currency to manipulate trade is preferable?

That is the Chinese form of capitalism--where is the self regulation? There is None--Chinese Capitalism is off the rails!!

I don't think you understand what the word means. China is a communist state that allows capitalism to exist in part to make money. Capitalists are not running the country.

But capitalist are running the capitalist system you mentioned. The same concepts and forces that exist in the market place should effect their business practices as well.

 

[The Rabbi]

We enjoy clear skies and clean water because of regulations
Our workers have rights and get paid better then china, india or some other shit hole because of minimum wage and unions.
Our quality is higher because of standards
Our food, medication and other products are safe because of the fda, cdc, etc.
Anti-trust laws make sure huge corps don't crowd out the entire industry...

All this is needed to regulate capitalism..Anyone that says that capitalism is self regulating is without the slightest clue of what they're talking about. You think capitalism cared about its workers in China??? Or in 1890's America? People come after money in capitalism.

Nixon started the EPA. There's nothing uncapitalistic about it. We all enjoy a healthier environment. Customers live longer and spend more in a healthy market too.

Sorry, I have to disagree with that. There's nothing capitalist about the EPA.

It's way too big but that's a different matter. How is it to the capitalist's best interest to let a company move in a turn the lake or water supply into a cesspool?

Who does the lake belong to? Why arent they suing the company for doing that?
Again, the problem is not capitalism but its absence.

 

[RodISHI]

Unfettered capitalism doesn't remain capitalism for long.
As soon as we allow unfettered capitalism to exist, business interests begin to fetter it, with monopolies, price fixing, tainted foods shoddy merchandise and it is no longer capitalism. Regulation is to keep capitalism alive and well; unfettered capitalism means to destroy capitalism.
Unfettered capitalism is similar to the name: monopolistic-capitalism, or uncompetitive- capitalism.

All you're saying is that democracy is inherently corrupt. True, democracies will always devolve into socialism/fascism. That's a problem with democracy, not capitalism. Monopolies can only exist if government enforces them by law. "Price fixing" has never worked unless enforced by law. That's what FDR tried to do with the NRA. It was all a vast price fixing scheme.

Companies that sell tainted food can be sued, and the ones that shell shoddy merchandise go out of business. Where do you find shoddy merchandise, in capitalist countries or socialist countries. If you want a perfect example of shoddy merchandise, check out the cars they made in the Soviet Union.

All your claims are Marxist anti-capitalist propaganda that was shot down long ago.

If one sues a company that sells tainted food and the court orders the company to stop, would that be a form of fettered capitalism?
Should the government be involved with pure food and drugs? Is that fettered capitalism?
Why is the government still involved in the manufacture of American cars in American factories, is that form of fettered capitalism?
As for Marx, why hasn't his prediction of dialectical materialism come to pass? Was it fettered capitalism.
Can you name any of the nations today that practice unfettered capitalism?

Yeah Nadar f*** the people with a lot of his bs. I like my old dodge planned on keeping until the end if possible. Your congress screwed y'all there too and the used cars went to the Saudi's and over seas where all your jobs went. Hell of a deal.

 

[regent]

Unfettered capitalism doesn't remain capitalism for long.
As soon as we allow unfettered capitalism to exist, business interests begin to fetter it, with monopolies, price fixing, tainted foods shoddy merchandise and it is no longer capitalism. Regulation is to keep capitalism alive and well; unfettered capitalism means to destroy capitalism.
Unfettered capitalism is similar to the name: monopolistic-capitalism, or uncompetitive- capitalism.

My point exactly. Just about the only place you will get unfettered capitalism is at an art fair, the farmers market, craigs list, or ebay.

It's total bullshit. That's the kind of shallow propaganda that all leftists believe because they're stupid and incredibly ignorant.

So put up an argument with something besides name calling. Let's hear something with substance.

 

[The Rabbi]

There has never been a monopoly in the history of capitalism that wasn't legally enforced. Unsafe working conditions have been resolved by lawsuits. The record shows that the creation of OSHA has zero affect on the reduction in workplace accidents and illnesses. Pollution issues can be resolved through the tort process.

It's easy to complain that torts can fix the system, but the real truth is that unfettered capitalism will control everything including the courts. Who can sue, if you don't have the money and the cards are stacked against you?

How can "capitalism" control the courts? Be specific here.

 

[The Rabbi]

'What is "Unfettered Capitalism"?'

It’s a naïve myth contrived and propagated by many on the right, the unfounded notion that ‘government regulation’ is ‘unwarranted,’ where the private sector is capable of ‘self regulation,’ when in fact nothing could be further from the truth.

Government regulatory measures are necessary, proper, and Constitutional as authorized by the Commerce Clause.

Actually "unfettered capitalism" is a term used exclusively by the Left.
Yet more failure from the Jake Starkey of USMB.

 

[RodISHI]

Capitalism is a self regulating system. Charge too much, someone will undercut you. Deliver bad goods/services? People will stop buying. Cheat someone? Expect a big lawsuit.
The problems that people cite with "capitalism" usually are the result of lack of capitalism, i.e. gov't intrusion.
Capitalism has raised standards of living and brought people out of poverty. Why would anyone want to fetter that?

The only period of time that we have come close to unfettered capitalism was in the early part of 19th century before labor unions and government regulations, a time when the middle class hardly existed, a time when the wealthy controlled government, a time of little upward mobility, and a time when the rape of the environment was a source of pride. Unfettered capitalism spawns corruption. At its best, capitalism dramatically improves lives; at its worst, left unchecked, capitalism ravages the environment, oppresses individuals, and destroys culture.

Nope. Those tycoons owned politicians and were very involved with how laws were made, when and where. That's as close to fascism as it gets.

Owned should read own. Just say'n as the owners make up the rules not a disinterested private without a stake in the profits.

 

[RodISHI]

There has never been a monopoly in the history of capitalism that wasn't legally enforced. Unsafe working conditions have been resolved by lawsuits. The record shows that the creation of OSHA has zero affect on the reduction in workplace accidents and illnesses. Pollution issues can be resolved through the tort process.

It's easy to complain that torts can fix the system, but the real truth is that unfettered capitalism will control everything including the courts. Who can sue, if you don't have the money and the cards are stacked against you?

How can "capitalism" control the courts? Be specific here.

They pay off the judges.

 

[The Rabbi]

We see how self regulating it is by looking at China, India or 19th century America. Anyone that thinks it is self regulating knows nothing of what they're talking about.

Government and unions are needed for capitalism to be fair to the worker. One of the big reasons we did so good as a nation in the 40's into the 60's was because of this fact. Today? The rich have taken it all and moved operations to china.

China and India are communist/socialist countries, doofus.

yes, they are yet we still buy inferior and dangerous goods from China and both countries suck up industrial jobs like a mop from more capitalist nations.

If capitalism was self regulating, why are the communist/socialists countries being rewarded by it?

The capitalism they do practice is how they pay the bills. America votes with its' dollars. People don't want to pay for high priced union made goods if they have an option. That's a fact. Also over regulation is killing business. People think if you're in business you are wealthy and can afford to hand over more and more money to government.

So poisonous dry wall,lead laced paint and toothpaste is preferable? Sweat shops and cheating of migrant workers out of their pay is preferable? Devaluation of currency to manipulate trade is preferable?

That is the Chinese form of capitalism--where is the self regulation? There is None--Chinese Capitalism is off the rails!!

China is a communist state, doofus.

 

[Fishlore]

Capitalism is the greatest wealth producing economic system the world has seen. This is due in large part to fractional reserve banking which allows investment using dollars that don't exist. The result, besides, spectacular growth, is a spectacular series of boom-and-bust panics and depressions.

The entropic tendency of industrial capitalism is concentration. The rich become richer until almost everything is owned by a few incredibly wealthy people, an oligarchy with eventually, inevitably controls the government. We have reached that point with our 1%.

Like fire, capitalism is a powerful friend or a terrible enemy. All depends on maintaining a democratic political system with the power to regulate the economy. The US developed that control in the progressive era and refined it with the New Deal. All that is slipping away and we are approaching a crisis point. Either we restore our democracy and control our economy or we are headed for fascism, war and collapse. Fortunately for me, I'm too old to worry about it, but I fear for my grandchildren.

 

[RodISHI]

We see how self regulating it is by looking at China, India or 19th century America. Anyone that thinks it is self regulating knows nothing of what they're talking about.

Government and unions are needed for capitalism to be fair to the worker. One of the big reasons we did so good as a nation in the 40's into the 60's was because of this fact. Today? The rich have taken it all and moved operations to china.

China and India are communist/socialist countries, doofus.

yes, they are yet we still buy inferior and dangerous goods from China and both countries suck up industrial jobs like a mop from more capitalist nations.

If capitalism was self regulating, why are the communist/socialists countries being rewarded by it?

The capitalism they do practice is how they pay the bills. America votes with its' dollars. People don't want to pay for high priced union made goods if they have an option. That's a fact. Also over regulation is killing business. People think if you're in business you are wealthy and can afford to hand over more and more money to government.

So poisonous dry wall,lead laced paint and toothpaste is preferable? Sweat shops and cheating of migrant workers out of their pay is preferable? Devaluation of currency to manipulate trade is preferable?

That is the Chinese form of capitalism--where is the self regulation? There is None--Chinese Capitalism is off the rails!!

China is a communist state, doofus.

They do take the guys out who purposely allow poison in the children's food and shoot them directly. You gotta give them credit for that.

 

[The Rabbi]

Unfettered capitalism doesn't remain capitalism for long.
As soon as we allow unfettered capitalism to exist, business interests begin to fetter it, with monopolies, price fixing, tainted foods shoddy merchandise and it is no longer capitalism. Regulation is to keep capitalism alive and well; unfettered capitalism means to destroy capitalism.
Unfettered capitalism is similar to the name: monopolistic-capitalism, or uncompetitive- capitalism.

Wrong,.
There are no monopolies not enforced by the government. There are no shoddy goods or unsafe goods in the marketplace for long.
You are simply dead wrong.

 

[regent]

Unfettered Capitalism is unfettered greed. I guess that's the opposite of your's, eh?you remember Reaganomics, supply side theory, Chicago School?

The country did great with "Reaganomics" which apparently still pisses liberals off since it proves they are full of shit.

But you need to define what you are babbling about when you use the term unfettered capitalism and how that differs from anarchy.

Voting for FDR as Reagan did is not Reaganomics. Reagan's growing the government and tripling the national debt is, however.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Regulated social market "Capitalism has raised standards of living and brought people out of poverty. Why would anyone want to [mess with] that?"

The loserterians want to mess with it as they want their super rich corporate ceo's to have it all and fuck everyone else. Fuck clean air, water or food! Fuck human rights, fuck everything1!!!!