What Is American Socialism, Communism, and Marxism: Open Q&A

[Red Front]

Hello everyone

I found the following threads in the politics section:​

1. 
   
   Let’s Call Them What They Are: Communists
   First response anticipated from the leftist dummies on this board: “Oh, this article is from...
2. R
   Marxist, Communism, Socialism and Capitalism
   This is the question. Marxism: What It Is and Comparison to Communism, Socialism, and Capitalism KEY TAKEAWAYS Marxism is...
3. 
   
   What IS National Socialism
   The terms Nazi and Neo-Nazi get thrown around a lot, usually as a shallow smear against people...
4. 
   
   If Socialist Communism Spreads in the United States
   From the City-Data Forum. (Lifetime banned...so I opened up discussion here.) "If Socialist...

Hence, I decided to open this topic in the politics section, because none of the above threads were banned or deleted.

This thread is dedicated to discussing and understanding the concepts of American-born Socialism, Communism, and Marxism (the American democratic version of socialism/communism/Marxism - Socialism with American characteristics), among other related topics.

The purpose of this thread is to provide a platform for open and informed discussion. It is an opportunity for us to learn from each other, dispel misconceptions, and deepen our understanding of these political and economic topics.

I invite all of you, regardless of your current knowledge or beliefs, to ask questions, share insights, and contribute to the conversation. Whether you're a seasoned scholar, a curious observer, or someone who's just starting to explore these topics, your perspective is valuable and welcome here.

Some potential, opening topics to discuss:

Two types of communism. The pre-agrarian/hunter-gatherer, paleolithic, Primitive Communism of our ancestors:

​

Marxist "High-Communism"/High-Tech Communism :

" a socioeconomic order centered around common ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange that allocates products to everyone in the society based on need.[3][4][5] A communist society would entail the absence of private property and social classes,[1] and ultimately money[6] and the state.[7][8][9] Communists often seek a voluntary state of self-governance but disagree on the means to this end. This reflects a distinction between a more libertarian approach of communization, revolutionary spontaneity, and workers' self-management, and a more authoritarian vanguardist or communist party-driven approach through the development of a socialist state followed by the withering away of the state.[10] As one of the main ideologies on the political spectrum, communism is placed on the left-wing alongside socialism, and communist parties and movements have been described as radical left or far-left.[11][12][note 1]

Variants of communism have been developed throughout history, including anarchist communism, Marxist schools of thought, and religious communism, among others. Communism encompasses a variety of schools of thought, which broadly include Marxism, Leninism, and libertarian communism, as well as the political ideologies grouped around those. All of these different ideologies generally share the analysis that the current order of society stems from capitalism, its economic system, and mode of production, that in this system there are two major social classes, that the relationship between these two classes is exploitative, and that this situation can only ultimately be resolved through a social revolution.[21][note 2] The two classes are the proletariat, who make up the majority of the population within society and must sell their labor power to survive, and the bourgeoisie, a small minority that derives profit from employing the working class through private ownership of the means of production.[23] According to this analysis, a communist revolution would put the working class in power,[24] and in turn establish common ownership of property, the primary element in the transformation of society towards a communist mode of production.[25][26][27]"

SOURCE: Communism - Wikipedia

​

 

[Donald H]

Hello everyone

I found the following threads in the politics section:​

1. 
   
   Let’s Call Them What They Are: Communists
   First response anticipated from the leftist dummies on this board: “Oh, this article is from...
2. R
   Marxist, Communism, Socialism and Capitalism
   This is the question. Marxism: What It Is and Comparison to Communism, Socialism, and Capitalism KEY TAKEAWAYS Marxism is...
3. 
   
   What IS National Socialism
   The terms Nazi and Neo-Nazi get thrown around a lot, usually as a shallow smear against people...
4. 
   
   If Socialist Communism Spreads in the United States
   From the City-Data Forum. (Lifetime banned...so I opened up discussion here.) "If Socialist...

Hence, I decided to open this topic in the politics section, because none of the above threads were banned or deleted.

This thread is dedicated to discussing and understanding the concepts of American-born Socialism, Communism, and Marxism (the American democratic version of socialism/communism/Marxism - Socialism with American characteristics), among other related topics.

The purpose of this thread is to provide a platform for open and informed discussion. It is an opportunity for us to learn from each other, dispel misconceptions, and deepen our understanding of these political and economic topics.

I invite all of you, regardless of your current knowledge or beliefs, to ask questions, share insights, and contribute to the conversation. Whether you're a seasoned scholar, a curious observer, or someone who's just starting to explore these topics, your perspective is valuable and welcome here.

Some potential, opening topics to discuss:

Two types of communism. The pre-agrarian/hunter-gatherer, paleolithic, Primitive Communism of our ancestors:

View attachment 811992
View attachment 811993
​

Marxist "High-Communism"/High-Tech Communism :

" a socioeconomic order centered around common ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange that allocates products to everyone in the society based on need.[3][4][5] A communist society would entail the absence of private property and social classes,[1] and ultimately money[6] and the state.[7][8][9] Communists often seek a voluntary state of self-governance but disagree on the means to this end. This reflects a distinction between a more libertarian approach of communization, revolutionary spontaneity, and workers' self-management, and a more authoritarian vanguardist or communist party-driven approach through the development of a socialist state followed by the withering away of the state.[10] As one of the main ideologies on the political spectrum, communism is placed on the left-wing alongside socialism, and communist parties and movements have been described as radical left or far-left.[11][12][note 1]

Variants of communism have been developed throughout history, including anarchist communism, Marxist schools of thought, and religious communism, among others. Communism encompasses a variety of schools of thought, which broadly include Marxism, Leninism, and libertarian communism, as well as the political ideologies grouped around those. All of these different ideologies generally share the analysis that the current order of society stems from capitalism, its economic system, and mode of production, that in this system there are two major social classes, that the relationship between these two classes is exploitative, and that this situation can only ultimately be resolved through a social revolution.[21][note 2] The two classes are the proletariat, who make up the majority of the population within society and must sell their labor power to survive, and the bourgeoisie, a small minority that derives profit from employing the working class through private ownership of the means of production.[23] According to this analysis, a communist revolution would put the working class in power,[24] and in turn establish common ownership of property, the primary element in the transformation of society towards a communist mode of production.[25][26][27]"

SOURCE: Communism - Wikipedia

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​

What is your purpose of introducing a discussion on communism? I'll make a guess in the interest of getting the discussion going on a productive track.

China's capitalism which contains a large amount of social responsibility to their people, is leaving greedy capitalism behind. Therefore, examining China's system as being representative of communism, is where I'll start the discussion off.

But is that your purpose in showing that America's capitalist style is failing? Or do you have another purpose?

Maybe providing an example of communism or socialism either failing or succeeding in America would be helpful to understanding your purpose?

 

[SeaMajor7]

Interviewer: The Soviets use the phase, “ideological subversion”. What do they mean by that?


Bezmenov: Ideological subversion is the process which is legitimate overt and open. You can see it with your own eyes. All you have to do, all the American mass media has to do is to unplug their bananas from their ears, open up their eyes and they can see. There’s no mystery. There’s nothing to do with espionage. I know espionage intelligence gathering looks more romantic, it sells more deodorants through their advertising, probably. That’s why your Hollywood producers are so crazy about James Bond type of thrillers. But in reality, the main emphasis of the KGB is not in the area of intelligence at all! According to my opinion, and the opinion of many defectors of my caliber, only about 15% of time, money and manpower is spent on espionage as such. The other 85% is a slow process which we call either ideological subversion or active measures, (2 Russian words, активные something, I couldn’t catch it) in the language of the KGB, or psychological warfare. What it basically means is, to change the perception of reality of every American to such as extent that in spite of the abundance of information no one is able to come to sensible conclusions in the interest of defending themselves, their families, their community and their country.

It’s a great brainwashing process which goes very slow and is divided into four basic stages, the first one being demoralization. It takes from 15 to 20 years to demoralize a nation. Why that many years? Because this is the minimum number of years which is required to educate one generation of students in the country of your enemy exposed to the ideology of your enemy. In other words, Marxism / Leninism ideology is being pumped into the soft heads of at least 3 generations of American students without being challenged or counterbalanced by the basic values of Americanism, American patriotism.

The demoralization process in the United States is basically completed already, for the last 25 years, actually it’s over fulfilled because demoralization now reaches such areas where previously not even Comrade Andropov and all his experts would even dream of such a tremendous success. Most of it is being done by Americans to Americans thanks to a lack of moral standards. As I mentioned before, exposure to true information does not matter any more. A person who is demoralized is unable to assess true information. The facts tell nothing to him. Even if I shower him with information, with authentic proof, with documents, with pictures, even if I take him by force to the Soviet Union and show him a concentration camp, he will refuse to believe it until he’s going to receive a kick in his fat bottom. When a military boot crushes his balls, then he will understand, but not before that. That’s the tragedy of the situation of demoralization.



And here we are today....

 

[occupied]

Communism as an academic subject is a worthy thing to study as one of many political philosophies. As a political/social system it has a very bad history. If you are trying to sell it as such you would have a better chance at selling hereditary monarchy.

 

[Oddball]

tl;dr

 

[Donald H]

Communism as an academic subject is a worthy thing to study as one of many political philosophies. As a political/social system it has a very bad history. If you are trying to sell it as such you would have a better chance at selling hereditary monarchy.

The OP isn't defining what communism or socialism means in America and so it looks like another hit and run thread so far.

At least we can say that America's style of capitalism is failing and Trump has capitalized on that.

Common to all of America's working class is their anger toward the system that is cheating them out of a piece of the great American pie. If socially responsibe capitalist countries' working class have it, why can't Americans.

Also common to nearly all Americans is they hate one political party or the other.

And then there's China's success that has elevated hundreds of millions of the poor into contented working class.

Where is the communism or socialism in America?

 

[Donald H]

tl;dr

View attachment 812026

You spam many discussions out of fear.
Are you even capable of discussion?

 

[Rye Catcher]

Is Britannica a reliable source for history?

Trust Britannica Library as a reliable source with objective, fact-check, and unbiased content that is written by experts and vetted through rigorous editorial process. Take a look at our editorial process which serves as the backbone of our products, experiences, and content.

encyclopedia britannica socialism communism and marxism - Google Search

www.google.com

Now, the OP is filled by the absurd. Maybe the author of the OP can enroll in Political Science Courses.

 

[Donald H]

Is Britannica a reliable source for history?

Trust Britannica Library as a reliable source with objective, fact-check, and unbiased content that is written by experts and vetted through rigorous editorial process. Take a look at our editorial process which serves as the backbone of our products, experiences, and content.

encyclopedia britannica socialism communism and marxism - Google Search

www.google.com

Now, the OP is filled by the absurd. Maybe the author of the OP can enroll in Political Science Courses.

It was just another hit and run. Do you want to make it a discussion? What's your motive?
Pro or con socialism?

 

[Mac1958]

The OP isn't defining what communism or socialism means in America and so it looks like another hit and run thread so far.

This conversation has become so shallow and binary that getting any value out it is hopeless. This country just can't communicate any more.

The fact is, the size, scope, cost and influence of government exists across a continuum. So instead of screaming our regular platitudes, our goal should be to find some degree of agreement about where we should exist on that continuum. But you can't find agreement when you refuse to communicate. Nor can you find agreement when you can't even agree on definitions.

Being a 50/50 country should be our greatest strength. Instead, it's becoming our undoing.

 

[sartre play]

China or Russia or ANY country that is ruled by a DICTATOR, is in my way of thinking NO GOOD for AMERICA.
WE SHOULD NEVER want to be Ruled by one.

 

[Red Front]

What is your purpose of introducing a discussion on communism? I'll make a guess in the interest of getting the discussion going on a productive track.

China's capitalism which contains a large amount of social responsibility to their people, is leaving greedy capitalism behind. Therefore, examining China's system as being representative of communism, is where I'll start the discussion off.

But is that your purpose in showing that America's capitalist style is failing? Or do you have another purpose?

Maybe providing an example of communism or socialism either failing or succeeding in America would be helpful to understanding your purpose?

China is more of a mixed economy. I would identify Western Europe as being more socialist or "communist" than China. In China there are people who are going bankrupt with medical bills, just like here. You really don't have a right to healthcare and education in China as you do in Western Europe. I'd say the United States provides better access to healthcare and education to its citizens than China offers its citizens.

China tried communism and failed, due to a lack of adequate emphasis on industrialization, engineering, science, and technology, not to speak of its dicey relationship with the USSR. China did improve a few things under strict communism between the 1950s and 80s, but it was a shadow of communism, compared to the Soviet Union.

Chinese workers today, are essentially un-unionized and have fewer rights than American workers, especially workers in Europe. I don't see China as a truly socialist or communist country, it's more of a mixed economy, with some state control over some major industries. It has some central planning and government partnerships in some important, "heavy" sectors of the economy, allowing it to accomplish a lot more than we who are under the strong spell and grip of neoliberal economics. Here in America, we're into privatizing practically every segment of our economy, leading to high prices and chaos. However, as I mentioned earlier America does have its advantages and virtues, which China lacks. Watch this:

​

China is a mixed economy and "communist" in name only.

 

[Red Front]

What is your purpose of introducing a discussion on communism? I'll make a guess in the interest of getting the discussion going on a productive track.

China's capitalism which contains a large amount of social responsibility to their people, is leaving greedy capitalism behind. Therefore, examining China's system as being representative of communism, is where I'll start the discussion off.

But is that your purpose in showing that America's capitalist style is failing? Or do you have another purpose?

Maybe providing an example of communism or socialism either failing or succeeding in America would be helpful to understanding your purpose?

As far as socialism or its objective, communism, being successful in America. There are many examples of socialist action in America. Most of the labor unions were started in the 19th century and early 1900s, by socialists, communists, and syndicalist anarchists. A lot of our rights as workers came through leftist organized protests, strikes..etc.

 

[Red Front]

China or Russia or ANY country that is ruled by a DICTATOR, is in my way of thinking NO GOOD for AMERICA.
WE SHOULD NEVER want to be Ruled by one.

American socialism is truly Marxist, which is democratic.

 

[Meister]

China is more of a mixed economy. I would identify Western Europe as being more socialist or "communist" than China. In China there are people who are going bankrupt with medical bills, just like here. You really don't have a right to healthcare and education in China as you do in Western Europe. I'd say the United States provides better access to healthcare and education to its citizens than China offers its citizens.

China tried communism and failed, due to a lack of adequate emphasis on industrialization, engineering, science, and technology, not to speak of its dicey relationship with the USSR. China did improve a few things under strict communism before the 1950s and 80s, but it was a shadow of communism, compared to the Soviet Union.

Chinese workers today, are essentially un-unionized and have fewer rights than American workers, especially workers in Europe. I don't see China as a truly socialist or communist country, it's more of a mixed economy, with some state control over some major industries. It has some central planning and government partnerships in some important, "heavy" sectors of the economy, allowing it to accomplish a lot more than we, who are under the strong spell and grip of neoliberal economics. Here in America, we're into privatizing practically every segment of our economy, leading to high prices and chaos. However, as I mentioned earlier America does have its advantages and virtues, which China lacks. Watch this:

​

China is a mixed economy and "communist" in name only.

Make no mistake, it is governed by a heavy hand.

 

[Oddball]

As far as socialism or its objective, communism, being successful in America. There are many examples of socialist action in America. Most of the labor unions were started in the 19th century and early 1900s, by socialists, communists, and syndicalist anarchists. A lot of our rights as workers came through leftist organized protests, strikes..etc.

View attachment 812043

Unions don't own the means of production.

But you commies would be nothing if y'all didn't lie out your asses.

 

[kaz]

Communism as an academic subject is a worthy thing to study as one of many political philosophies. As a political/social system it has a very bad history. If you are trying to sell it as such you would have a better chance at selling hereditary monarchy.

You guys are going to do Communism right this time! I know it!

 

[Oddball]

China is more of a mixed economy. I would identify Western Europe as being more socialist or "communist" than China. In China there are people who are going bankrupt with medical bills, just like here. You really don't have a right to healthcare and education in China as you do in Western Europe. I'd say the United States provides better access to healthcare and education to its citizens than China offers its citizens.

China tried communism and failed, due to a lack of adequate emphasis on industrialization, engineering, science, and technology, not to speak of its dicey relationship with the USSR. China did improve a few things under strict communism between the 1950s and 80s, but it was a shadow of communism, compared to the Soviet Union.

Chinese workers today, are essentially un-unionized and have fewer rights than American workers, especially workers in Europe. I don't see China as a truly socialist or communist country, it's more of a mixed economy, with some state control over some major industries. It has some central planning and government partnerships in some important, "heavy" sectors of the economy, allowing it to accomplish a lot more than we, who are under the strong spell and grip of neoliberal economics. Here in America, we're into privatizing practically every segment of our economy, leading to high prices and chaos. However, as I mentioned earlier America does have its advantages and virtues, which China lacks. Watch this:

​

China is a mixed economy and "communist" in name only.

"Mixed", that is, if you're a CCP member in good standing, who minds their social credit score....Otherwise, you're a peasant who's not allowed to enter any city.

So liberating!

 

[kaz]

Unions don't own the means of production.

But you commies would be nothing if y'all didn't lie out your asses.

Yes, leftism clearly would fall apart if it wasn't sold with lies

 

[Red Front]

Make no mistake, it is governed by a heavy hand.

I didn't suggest otherwise. China is far from a Jeffersonian democracy. We American socialists come from a different tradition and our heritage and values are different than theirs.