What does it take for the cops to break into your house and steal your guns?

[PaintMyHouse]

Now you're spewing gibberish. There is no more need to interact with you.

The gibberish in this case is yours, and it was entirely expected.

 

[I.P.Freely]

Now you're spewing gibberish. There is no more need to interact with you.

The gibberish in this case is yours, and it was entirely expected.

Well played Sir! you gave both lickspittles a sound yet erudite lesson in the art of the classic retort.

 

[Plasmaball]

this is a little bit more grey than you want it to be Windbag. had she not made that comment about blowing her brains out you would have a solid point. The cops would have violated her 4th amendment right.

Then again i can see the otherside and ask, where would this lead? But you have a doctor reporting it and not some person with a grudge..

I think i have to side on the cops overstepping. She wants to blow her head off, thats her issue.

But that being said if there is a state law that says the cops must send her to a psych ward then....I know California has one where if you claim the person is harming themselves, you get three 3 minimum.

She denies she made the comment. Frankly, given the innocent until proven guilty way the law is supposed to work, I am forced to actually believe her unless that doctor can produce something besides his claim that she said it.

Even if she did make the comment she obviously did not actually go home to blow her brains out, it took the cops nine fucking hours to find her, she clearly articulated that she was fine, and insisted that they not enter her home. On top of that, the gun was in a locked box when they did. If you think that justifies ignoring the Constitution you have a serious misunderstanding of how this is supposed to work.

As for the state law, it says no such fucking thing. What it says is that, if a cop fills out a form, they can ignore everything and force a person into medical lockup. If you are going to use a stupid law to defend the assholes who enforce it, at least get the fucking justification right. Getting it wrong just makes your authoritarian streak obvious.

In other words, you are a fucking asshole who is going out of his way to lie in order to defend the actions of power mad cops.

Well no...laws mean things and if there is a law on the books that says the cops have to go, they have to go.

It would seem a judge disagrees with you since they saw all the evidence.

My personal opinion is I'm on the fence about this..The legal opinion says that to me the cops may of had the right once the phone call was made.

Is this evidence for a gun grab? No...it's an isolated issue and nothing more.

 

[BlindBoo]

A judgment call but sounds like they played it just fine considering. Society does step in in such cases.

A judgment call, yes. Shouldn't that be made by a judge, not the police?

No reason the police couldn't make a call on the house to make sure she was okay. But to break into her house after 9 hours and detain her after the her doctor said she was okay and not a threat to herself and others. The police went overboard and the law of Wisconsin allowed them to. Bad law.

And she was pretty stupid for wearing an empty holster to that session.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

LOL. PMH.

And what does his being irrational or childish have to do with this debate? Do you even know what your original point was?

Yep. And the reason he doesn't understand what happened, and why I approve of it for the most part, along with the courts, is because he is irrational and childish.

I understand fully what your point is, the government is always right, when you painstakingly believe that the government is wrong remember that the government is always right. Because I don't agree with that I am childish and irresponsible, and proud of it.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

this is a little bit more grey than you want it to be Windbag. had she not made that comment about blowing her brains out you would have a solid point. The cops would have violated her 4th amendment right.

Then again i can see the otherside and ask, where would this lead? But you have a doctor reporting it and not some person with a grudge..

I think i have to side on the cops overstepping. She wants to blow her head off, thats her issue.

But that being said if there is a state law that says the cops must send her to a psych ward then....I know California has one where if you claim the person is harming themselves, you get three 3 minimum.

She denies she made the comment. Frankly, given the innocent until proven guilty way the law is supposed to work, I am forced to actually believe her unless that doctor can produce something besides his claim that she said it.

Even if she did make the comment she obviously did not actually go home to blow her brains out, it took the cops nine fucking hours to find her, she clearly articulated that she was fine, and insisted that they not enter her home. On top of that, the gun was in a locked box when they did. If you think that justifies ignoring the Constitution you have a serious misunderstanding of how this is supposed to work.

As for the state law, it says no such fucking thing. What it says is that, if a cop fills out a form, they can ignore everything and force a person into medical lockup. If you are going to use a stupid law to defend the assholes who enforce it, at least get the fucking justification right. Getting it wrong just makes your authoritarian streak obvious.

In other words, you are a fucking asshole who is going out of his way to lie in order to defend the actions of power mad cops.

Well no...laws mean things and if there is a law on the books that says the cops have to go, they have to go.

It would seem a judge disagrees with you since they saw all the evidence.

My personal opinion is I'm on the fence about this..The legal opinion says that to me the cops may of had the right once the phone call was made.

Is this evidence for a gun grab? No...it's an isolated issue and nothing more.

Laws mean something? Which laws? I am just asking because, according to you, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, which you often point to as the supreme law of the land, don't seem to mean very much to you when there is another law that lets the government it doesn't have to pay attention to them. To sum it up, laws mean something, unless they get in the way of the government taking away people's freedom in the name of the law.

Keep in mind the actual facts of the case here. Nine hours after she allegedly threatened to kill herself the police broke into her home without a warrant, or probable cause. The court said that the nine hour time lapse, and the fact that she called the police to report that she was alive and not trying to kill herself, all contributed to the argument that she really wasn't in danger. They also pointed out that the fact that she called the 911 to report an illegal break in was a point in her favor.

None of that actually mattered though, because the police filled out a form that gives them the option of institutionalizing her for observation. Let me repeat that for the brain dead moron I am addressing in this post, they had the option to institutionalize her. That means they also had the option not to do so. In other words, there was no low that required them to break into her house, the only reason they did it was because they wanted to.

Even the court admits that, but excuses it because they believe that the cops are so stupid that they thought all of this was legal. Frankly, after talking to you, I think they must have an IQ test to be a cop, and if you score to high you can't get in.

This is one of the many small things that combine to turn us from a nation of laws to a nation of whim, and you support it because you are pro government tyranny.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

A judgment call but sounds like they played it just fine considering. Society does step in in such cases.

A judgment call, yes. Shouldn't that be made by a judge, not the police?

No reason the police couldn't make a call on the house to make sure she was okay. But to break into her house after 9 hours and detain her after the her doctor said she was okay and not a threat to herself and others. The police went overboard and the law of Wisconsin allowed them to. Bad law.

And she was pretty stupid for wearing an empty holster to that session.

Because exercising your rights is always stupid, right?

 

[nodoginnafight]

and if she had gone postal

the cops would have been castigated because after all, "the threat was reported to them."

 

[Plasmaball]

At 2:45 p.m., Dr. Bentle telephoned the officers to advise
them that Sutterfield had called her some minutes earlier
stating that she was not in need of assistance and that the
doctor should “call off” the police search for her. According to
the officers, Dr. Bentle did not indicate that Sutterfield no
longer posed a danger to herself.

The cops had the right under this law:

Statement of Emergency Detention by Law Enforcement Officer

Thus by filling out the paperwork.

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/51/15

1. A substantial probability of physical harm to himself or herself as manifested by evidence of recent threats of or attempts at suicide or serious bodily harm.

So regardless if you disagree with the law or not, the Police had the right to do this, because well the law says they can.

Like i said Laws mean things and if you dont like it, change the law. And yes Windbag im skipping your dumb rant

 

[BlindBoo]

A judgment call but sounds like they played it just fine considering. Society does step in in such cases.

A judgment call, yes. Shouldn't that be made by a judge, not the police?

No reason the police couldn't make a call on the house to make sure she was okay. But to break into her house after 9 hours and detain her after the her doctor said she was okay and not a threat to herself and others. The police went overboard and the law of Wisconsin allowed them to. Bad law.

And she was pretty stupid for wearing an empty holster to that session.

Because exercising your rights is always stupid, right?

Always is always too definitive. I would say sometimes. Imo, wearing an empty holster anytime is stupid but, apparently in Wisconsin doing that while talking to your psychiatrist and mentioning blowing your brains out is even more so.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

and if she had gone postal

the cops would have been castigated because after all, "the threat was reported to them."

Only by the idiots, like you, that are 100% behind the cops right now.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

At 2:45 p.m., Dr. Bentle telephoned the officers to advise
them that Sutterfield had called her some minutes earlier
stating that she was not in need of assistance and that the
doctor should “call off” the police search for her. According to
the officers, Dr. Bentle did not indicate that Sutterfield no
longer posed a danger to herself.

The cops had the right under this law:

Statement of Emergency Detention by Law Enforcement Officer

Thus by filling out the paperwork.

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/51/15

1. A substantial probability of physical harm to himself or herself as manifested by evidence of recent threats of or attempts at suicide or serious bodily harm.

So regardless if you disagree with the law or not, the Police had the right to do this, because well the law says they can.

Like i said Laws mean things and if you dont like it, change the law. And yes Windbag im skipping your dumb rant

Let me spell this out for you, cops do not have a right to violate people's rights. You can search every single law, and every single court decision, and you will never find any proof that cops have the right to ignore the Constitution.

What they have is a bunch of idiots, like Plasmaball, who facilitate tyranny in the name of government power. Stop pretending you are on the fence when every single post you have made is 100% in favor of the cops ignoring the law and the Constitution.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

A judgment call, yes. Shouldn't that be made by a judge, not the police?

No reason the police couldn't make a call on the house to make sure she was okay. But to break into her house after 9 hours and detain her after the her doctor said she was okay and not a threat to herself and others. The police went overboard and the law of Wisconsin allowed them to. Bad law.

And she was pretty stupid for wearing an empty holster to that session.

Because exercising your rights is always stupid, right?

Always is always too definitive. I would say sometimes. Imo, wearing an empty holster anytime is stupid but, apparently in Wisconsin doing that while talking to your psychiatrist and mentioning blowing your brains out is even more so.

To sum it up, Wisconsin is a tyrannical government that will disabuse people of their illusionary rights, and you think that is hunky dory because it was all done in the name of public safety, or some such shit.

 

[Jarlaxle]

A judgment call but sounds like they played it just fine considering. Society does step in in such cases.

A judgment call, yes. Shouldn't that be made by a judge, not the police?

No reason the police couldn't make a call on the house to make sure she was okay. But to break into her house after 9 hours and detain her after the her doctor said she was okay and not a threat to herself and others. The police went overboard and the law of Wisconsin allowed them to. Bad law.

And she was pretty stupid for wearing an empty holster to that session.

No...she was stupid for saying ONE SINGLE WORD to a shrink.

 

[Plasmaball]

At 2:45 p.m., Dr. Bentle telephoned the officers to advise
them that Sutterfield had called her some minutes earlier
stating that she was not in need of assistance and that the
doctor should “call off” the police search for her. According to
the officers, Dr. Bentle did not indicate that Sutterfield no
longer posed a danger to herself.

The cops had the right under this law:
Thus by filling out the paperwork.

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/51/15

1. A substantial probability of physical harm to himself or herself as manifested by evidence of recent threats of or attempts at suicide or serious bodily harm.

So regardless if you disagree with the law or not, the Police had the right to do this, because well the law says they can.

Like i said Laws mean things and if you dont like it, change the law. And yes Windbag im skipping your dumb rant

Let me spell this out for you, cops do not have a right to violate people's rights. You can search every single law, and every single court decision, and you will never find any proof that cops have the right to ignore the Constitution.

What they have is a bunch of idiots, like Plasmaball, who facilitate tyranny in the name of government power. Stop pretending you are on the fence when every single post you have made is 100% in favor of the cops ignoring the law and the Constitution.

well, i already did post it, so again you fail...Thats two......

Im sorry you are too stupid to separate my real opinion from the fact of what the laws are. Oh thats three!

Good luck on the thread, Im out since this is no longer interesting, because you want to ignore reality.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The cops had the right under this law:
Thus by filling out the paperwork.

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/51/15

So regardless if you disagree with the law or not, the Police had the right to do this, because well the law says they can.

Like i said Laws mean things and if you dont like it, change the law. And yes Windbag im skipping your dumb rant

Let me spell this out for you, cops do not have a right to violate people's rights. You can search every single law, and every single court decision, and you will never find any proof that cops have the right to ignore the Constitution.

What they have is a bunch of idiots, like Plasmaball, who facilitate tyranny in the name of government power. Stop pretending you are on the fence when every single post you have made is 100% in favor of the cops ignoring the law and the Constitution.

well, i already did post it, so again you fail...Thats two......

Im sorry you are too stupid to separate my real opinion from the fact of what the laws are. Oh thats three!

Good luck on the thread, Im out since this is no longer interesting, because you want to ignore reality.

You did?

There are two paragraphs that cover rights in your link, every word of them applies to the individual who is being detained, not one words says the cops have the right to ignore the Constitution.

(8) Evaluation, diagnosis and treatment. When an individual is detained under this section, the director and staff of the treatment facility may evaluate, diagnose and treat the individual during detention, if the individual consents. The individual has a right to refuse medication and treatment as provided in s. 51.61 (1) (g) and (h). The individual shall be advised of that right by the director of the facility or his or her designee, and a report of any evaluation and diagnosis and of all treatment provided shall be filed by that person with the court. (9) Notice of rights. At the time of arrival at the facility, under sub. (2), the individual shall be informed by the director of the facility or such person's designee, both orally and in writing, of his or her right to contact an attorney and a member of his or her immediate family, the right to have an attorney provided at public expense, as provided under s. 51.60, and the right to remain silent and that the individual's statements may be used as a basis for commitment. The individual shall also be provided with a copy of the statement of emergency detention.

That means you are still wrong, even though you claimed you posted a link that proved you are right.

Keep digging, I enjoy throwing dirt in the hole.

 

[hortysir]

A judgment call but sounds like they played it just fine considering. Society does step in in such cases.

Did you miss this part, PantyHose?

That form, which requires no judicial approval, is enough for a psychiatric detention lasting up to four days, which may result in further detention and forcible treatment.



Unilateral police action stripping constitutional rights.

What other rights are disposable?

 

[Jarlaxle]

All of them. PMH is a psycho.

 

[whitehall]

Federal police have awesome power. They are funded by the federal bureaucracy and generally have politically appointed low experience leadership. The Waco debacle is an example of federal abuse at it's most dangerous time in history. Branch Dividians legally obtained rusty hunks of former WW2 British junk and legally sent away for brochures about restoring the rusty junk. Not one piece of crap ever came close to being restored to firing condition but the ATF was facing a budget hearing and they needed a high profile arrest. After 80 men, women and children were incinerated by poison gas and tanks the liberal media covered for the federal agency and the basis for the original warrant was conveniently forgotten.

 

[I.P.Freely]

A judgment call but sounds like they played it just fine considering. Society does step in in such cases.

Did you miss this part, PantyHose?

Freudian slip shorty? I can see you in puce