what determines whether a person goes to heaven or not?

What determines whether a person goes to heaven or not?

I will attempt to answer your question as it pertains to Christianity. Unfortunately, not all Christians agree on what it takes to be saved. There are those who believe that justification is by works and that faith without works is dead; however, there are others who believe that justification is through faith in Christ alone and works are meaningless.

Moses killed a man and the Bible says that no murderer has eternal life in him (1 John 3:15 plus the old testament) but yet we see Moses on the mount of transfiguration talking with Jesus then the only alternative is to believe justification by faith alone because Moses is in heaven. If you look at the genealogy of Jesus, there is a prostitute, an adulterer (King David), etc, etc, etc.

I apologize for taking so long to get back to you. This old man took a nap after Judge Judy. I respectfully disagree that the Transfiguration of Moses necessarily proves the "justification by faith alone" doctrine. Here is part of an article I had previously written on the subject:

Some Christians believe that justification is by faith alone while others believe that justification is only by faith which manifests in works. However, they all agree that salvation can only come through accepting Christ as their savior. But since we are talking about Moses, I must mention that there are many Jews who fervently believe in eternal life and they point to the Old Testament scripture to support their belief that salvation was granted by God long before the birth of Christ.

I believe that a man's conduct should be judged by the laws in effect at the time not by laws written later, especially after his death. The framers of the U.S. Constitution also believed this and that is why the Document prohibits ex post facto laws. I would argue that God, being most fair, would judge a man by the laws He Himself has given him during his lifetime; therefore, Moses would have been judged by the Old Testament Law. There is specific language within the pages of the Old Testament which – IF BELIEVED – would prove that salvation existed at that time, long before the birth of Christ and it was dependent upon one's works and God's mercy. Thus Moses and would have been saved by his works, that is obedience towards his God, and his Transfiguration does not prove the “justification by faith alone” doctrine. Here are some of the relevant verses from the Old Testament (all scripture is from the KJV and all highlights are my own):

Ezekiel 18:20-30:

“The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.

“Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live? But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

“Yet ye say, The way of the LORD is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal? When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die. Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive. Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

"Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the LORD is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal? Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.”

(These verses make it plain that salvation was granted by God to those who deserved it by their works. Further, the verses make it clear that one who had sinned early on but was virtuous in the end would be saved. Moses, if guilty of killing a man, would have been saved by his subsequent conduct which is known to all Bible readers.)

Psalms 23 (entire chapter)

“The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

"Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.”

(The word “Lord” used in these verses does not apply to Christ, but rather to God. The verses make it clear that salvation and eternal life existed in Old Testament times.)

Psalm 32:1-5:

“Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered. Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile. When I kept silence, my bones waxed old through my roaring all the day long. For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me: my moisture is turned into the drought of summer. Selah. I acknowledge my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.”

(This is one of several Bible verses which tent to prove that the forgiveness of sins existed in Old Testament times.)

Psalm 51:1-13:

“Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions. Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin. For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me. Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.

"Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom. Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.

"Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice. Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities. Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me. Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit. Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.”

Psalm 86:1-5:

“Bow down thine ear, O LORD, hear me: for I am poor and needy. Preserve my soul; for I am holy: O thou my God, save thy servant that trusteth in thee. Be merciful unto me, O Lord: for I cry unto thee daily. Rejoice the soul of thy servant: for unto thee, O Lord, do I lift up my soul. For thou, Lord, art good, and ready to forgive; and plenteous in mercy unto all them that call upon thee.”

Isaiah 26:19:

“Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.”

(The author of the above quoted verses states that the dead, including him, shall rise. Thus eternal life was not dependent on the existence of Christ.)

Isaiah 43:10-11:

“Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.”

(This is God, the Father talking. God says in the strongest, clearest language possible that He is the one and only savior and there can be no other.)

Conclusion: I have presented scripture simply to show that the Bible is capable of multiple interpretations. Those who think their individual interpretation is correct because they have sought the meaning with their hearts fail to understand that those who disagree with their interpretation have also sought truth with their hearts. There are intelligent and sincere individuals of all denominations and anyone who thinks he has a monopoly on sincerity or that God reveals His truth only to him is perhaps a tad vain. There is no doubt that many people seek guidance through prayer, but apparently God does not give all of them the same answer. I'll let others explain that one.
 
I will attempt to answer your question as it pertains to Christianity. Unfortunately, not all Christians agree on what it takes to be saved. There are those who believe that justification is by works and that faith without works is dead; however, there are others who believe that justification is through faith in Christ alone and works are meaningless.

Moses killed a man and the Bible says that no murderer has eternal life in him (1 John 3:15 plus the old testament) but yet we see Moses on the mount of transfiguration talking with Jesus then the only alternative is to believe justification by faith alone because Moses is in heaven. If you look at the genealogy of Jesus, there is a prostitute, an adulterer (King David), etc, etc, etc.

I apologize for taking so long to get back to you. This old man took a nap after Judge Judy. I respectfully disagree that the Transfiguration of Moses necessarily proves the "justification by faith alone" doctrine. Here is part of an article I had previously written on the subject:

Some Christians believe that justification is by faith alone while others believe that justification is only by faith which manifests in works. However, they all agree that salvation can only come through accepting Christ as their savior. But since we are talking about Moses, I must mention that there are many Jews who fervently believe in eternal life and they point to the Old Testament scripture to support their belief that salvation was granted by God long before the birth of Christ.

Professor,

I don't see multiple interpretations here so please forgive me if I sound dense but I'm not.

You are claiming that some Christians believe that justification is by faith and others believe that justification is only by faith which manifests in works. There is really misunderstanding instead of multiple understandings.

James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

James using the old English word for "show" so that you show your faith before men. Faith can't always be seen and in the case of Abraham, I believe it was 15 years between when Abram believed God for righteousness and when he actually showed his faith. If Abram died before he showed his faith, would you know if he had it or not?T

The other point is that you can't see the spirit so how can you prove God is working?

John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

In the parable of the sower, there is wheat and tares and God says not to remove the tares before the harvest beause they look exactly alike (and you can't tell the difference) and if you were to remove the wheat, you would do damage to the crop. There are people whom you won't think will make it to heaven and they will be there and there are people whom you will think will go to heaven and they won't be there.

There are at least four dispensations in the Bible: Before the law, after the law, before the cross and after the cross.

How would God judge man before the law was given since there was no law? How would God judge man after the law was given? How would God judge man before the knowledge of the Gospel? How would God judge man after the Gospel was given?

God has to give people the law if they don't believe in faith:

1 Timothy 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

In other words, I'm not under the law because Jesus satisfied the requirements of the law for me. But for the person who thinks he has to earn his way to heaven, God will put that person under the law not to make them think they can earn it but the law acts as a mirror to show man that they are not only dirty but that they can't keep the law and that they need a savior and that is why the mirror is a school master to show people that their face is dirty and not so that they can wipe their face clean because the Bible says:

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

If you're short then you're short.

If you could earn your way to heaven then why do you have to die at the end of your life instead of live forever? The penalty of sin is death and it is appointed once for man to die because he can't earn it.
 
We each choose for ourselves whether we will attain heaven. We choose it by accepting Christ.

Reject Christ, reject eternal life in heaven.

Accept his gift of salvation, believe..and one day you'll sing in a heavenly choir.
 
What determines whether a person goes to heaven or not?

What? That would be God's decision.

I have a question as well. Why do most seem to put all hope of life in Heaven when the Bible talks of people living on Earth? It certainly isn't perfect now but I like it just fine and would greatly appreciate it if it were a garden of eden like Adam and Eve enjoyed for a time.

"Heaven" is the dwelling place of God. And in Revelation it says Heaven descends to earth after God renews the earth. Meaning that God comes to live on earth. So, we will live on earth, and heaven will be here.

:eusa_eh: Define 'we'.
 
What determines whether a person goes to heaven or not?

What? That would be God's decision.

I have a question as well. Why do most seem to put all hope of life in Heaven when the Bible talks of people living on Earth? It certainly isn't perfect now but I like it just fine and would greatly appreciate it if it were a garden of eden like Adam and Eve enjoyed for a time.

"Heaven" is the dwelling place of God. And in Revelation it says Heaven descends to earth after God renews the earth. Meaning that God comes to live on earth. So, we will live on earth, and heaven will be here.

The bible is a book of fiction written at a time when humans were simpletons and hadn't even invented bumwad. There's zero proof that Revelations is true, it's just a book written by simpletons.
 
O.k. - I'm curious as to the definition of 'Lord' as it applies to pedophile priests accepting that Jesus is their 'Lord'.

Does it mean that they're supposed to submit to the authority of Jesus, or just use the title appropriately?
 
Progressives generally approve of all things depraved, so why do you care? Don't you generally see alternative sexuality as a "right", something one is born with, and thus lifted above the reach of morality and judgement? Let God and the saints judge them, if they repent. Don't you worry your little pea brain about it.

You should trot over to the dog thread, wisely placed by some unknown person in the "Military" forum, lol. Where a couple of morons are discussing the likelihood and the propriety of having sex with dogs.

It is endlessly fascinating to me that the very people who defend all sorts of open depravity in our culture, and who take pride in hacking away at the foundations of our society, screech so loudly when anybody ELSE dares to suggest there may be forgiveness for sinners. A bit hypocritical, no? Actually...a lot hypocritical. Right up there in the sociopathic range.
 
Just thinking out loud here...

Shouldn't Catholic Priests be held to a slightly different standard than this scruffy old average athiest?


I'm just wondering if a change of behavior is warranted in order to get the prize.
 
Since Heaven is, by definition, a creation of God, I'm sure He has his own admission policies.
 
Again with the "different standards for different people" crap.

Get it through your head...there are no varying degrees of humanity. We don't apply different yardsticks to different people.

So no, you don't get to have one set of standards for priests, and apply another set of standards to the Gay Pride prancers in SF.

In the end, it's all about facilitating depravity. You're perfectly fine with the freaks outside the church. Your objective isn't to protect children, but to obliterate the church.
 
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The bible is a book of fiction written at a time when humans were simpletons and hadn't even invented bumwad. There's zero proof that Revelations is true, it's just a book written by simpletons.

That's not what the Spirit says. I can promise you that if you read the scriptures and apply the teachings to your life, the Holy Spirit will testify to you that it's true. God is not a respecter of persons and will answer anyone's humble prayer for wisdom and knowledge.

However, even if that weren't true, it seems unwise to dismiss thousands of years of wisdom without a second of consideration.
 
The bible is a book of fiction written at a time when humans were simpletons and hadn't even invented bumwad. There's zero proof that Revelations is true, it's just a book written by simpletons.

That's not what the Spirit says. I can promise you that if you read the scriptures and apply the teachings to your life, the Holy Spirit will testify to you that it's true. God is not a respecter of persons and will answer anyone's humble prayer for wisdom and knowledge.

However, even if that weren't true, it seems unwise to dismiss thousands of years of wisdom without a second of consideration.

What the Spirit says? Who dat?

Thousands of years of wisdom? You mean like torturing people who didn't think that the earth was flat? The wisdom that teaches you to retaliate (an eye for an eye)? ...
 
O.k. - I'm curious as to the definition of 'Lord' as it applies to pedophile priests accepting that Jesus is their 'Lord'.

Does it mean that they're supposed to submit to the authority of Jesus, or just use the title appropriately?

They are to submit to the authority of Christ, to repent of their sins, and follow Him.

¶Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Matthew 7:21-23)

The issue with the so called pedophile priests isn't just the pedophilia, which is pretty much one of the worst things they can do. But the fact that they are also professing the name of Christ in vain. They pretend to serve Christ in order to prey on children. Do you really think a Just Lord is going to reward them except they repent?
 
Just thinking out loud here...

Shouldn't Catholic Priests be held to a slightly different standard than this scruffy old average athiest?


I'm just wondering if a change of behavior is warranted in order to get the prize.

They should be held to a higher standard. Repentence is a change of behavior though and everyone is required to repent. All men must be born again.
 

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