What a Christian Pastor says about Wealth Redistribution

[aztech]

Care and Ravi...do a little research...how much money has Saddleback Church taken?

You have got to love poeple spewing generalities with little or no facts....it is sad really.

 

[xsited1]

Care and Ravi...do a little research...how much money has Saddleback Church taken?

You have got to love poeple spewing generalities with little or no facts....it is sad really.

What I find astounding is that these people trust the government more than the people. That's scary.

 

[Turboswede]

After all they whine like babies about how unfair the progressive tax structure it, and this gives them a perfectly FLAT tax, but they don't like it.

I love it, I would say a 90% inheritance tax but I could live with 100% if all universities were free and we subsidized living expenses for students maintain a specific GPA (2.0?).

FYI here is the list of economic powerhouses that have a flat income tax, looked like the former communist countries loved the idea as it is great for creating wealth, and at this point I don’t think they care about income distribution:

• Bulgaria
• Albania
• Czech Republic
• Estonia
• Georgia
• Guernsey
• Kazakhstan
• Iraq
• Jersey
• Kyrgyzstan
• Latvia
• Lithuania
• Macedonia
• Mongolia
• Montenegro
• Mauritius
• Romania
• Russia
• Serbia
• Slovakia
• Ukraine

 

[Care4all]

What I find astounding is that these people trust the government more than the people. That's scary.

ummmm, i happen to know a little bit about the Roman Catholic Churches History and the Church of England's history etc..... helloooooooooo?????

The Bible says that feeding the hungry and taking care of the needy IS NOT THE CHURCH'S DUTY.....the church's duty is to minister....to spread the Good News, the Gospel and they are not to be tied down with taking care of the needy...THIS IS WHAT THE PEOPLE, the laymen are suppose to do...family and neighbors are suppose to do....

The passage in scripture talked about a widowed woman that needed help...her husband had died and women could not work at the time to earn a living, she was coming to the Church for help, and the message was that the Church was not to be tied up in handling the needs of this woman IF there were family, or laymen, out there to take care of her, BECAUSE the Church and their clergy and the tithings collected were SUPPOSE to focus on preaching the Word of God, and spreading the Gospel and worshipping God....

Care

 

[Turboswede]

No, anyone can ride the roads our tax dollars pay.

But business owners benefit from the roads that all of our tax dollars pay for financially, I don’t benefit from them financially.

they aren't "entitled" to a house, they aren't "entitled" to eat at good restaurants, they aren't entitled to high end clothing.

It sounds like you agree that they are entitled to:
Some form of shelter
Some minimal food
Some basic clothing

In that case, charity would not be needed to provide these basic rights as individuals are “entitled” to them under your argument. I agree that aren't "entitled" to a house, they aren't "entitled" to eat at good restaurants, they aren't entitled to high end clothing, but they are entitled to basic shelter, food and clothing.

The only thing our government is supposed to provide to us is PROTECTION from tyranny. That's it.

Even Libertarians agree that the government is there to protect property rights as well, fire services, police, etc. By providing basic services does the state protect those rights by limiting the possibility of revolt? Even the Romans understood that they needed to provide bread and circuses to prevent uprisings.

We pay taxes to make this possible. Roads mean that our armed forces and our populations can move quickly and efficiently when danger is looming. They aren't there for the pleasure of the welfare class.

Are you calming that there is no financial motive for the national road network? Without the roads we have paid for it would be very costly for Wal-Mart or Costco to shuttle their goods all around the country.

 

[Ravi]

Ravi, seems to me you have an agenda on this topic as you clearly know little about what you are writing. Rick Warren is one of the foremost advocates for giving to the community and actively encourages the attendees at Saddleback to do do the same.

He, personally, and Saddleback as a whole give huge sums of money and time to people in need. Do a little research on the man....This is a man that no longer takes a salary from his role as Pastor of the church (in fact with the success of his writings, he paid back all of the money he had received from the Church over his initial 25 years)....he currently gives away 90% of his income (after tax) and lives of the remaining 10%.

This man is as far from (as is his teaching and message) from selfishness as you can get.

Maybe it is worth looking at facts before spewing BS.

Does his church take faith-based government funding? Does he speak out against faith-based government funding?

 

[Ravi]

What I find astounding is that these people trust the government more than the people. That's scary.

We are the government, silly. And yes, I trust we the people more than I trust some religious blowhards that have no accountability.

 

[xsited1]

ummmm, i happen to know a little bit about the Roman Catholic Churches History and the Church of England's history etc..... helloooooooooo?????

The Bible says that feeding the hungry and taking care of the needy IS NOT THE CHURCH'S DUTY.....the church's duty is to minister....to spread the Good News, the Gospel and they are not to be tied down with taking care of the needy...THIS IS WHAT THE PEOPLE, the laymen are suppose to do...family and neighbors are suppose to do....

The passage in scripture talked about a widowed woman that needed help...her husband had died and women could not work at the time to earn a living, she was coming to the Church for help, and the message was that the Church was not to be tied up in handling the needs of this woman IF there were family, or laymen, out there to take care of her, BECAUSE the Church and their clergy and the tithings collected were SUPPOSE to focus on preaching the Word of God, and spreading the Gospel and worshipping God....

Care

Just remove the church from this little discussion we are having here. I give money to charities that aren't associated with any church. I'm sure you do, too. The point is that people should not be forced to give money to charity. That's exactly what the government is doing. That's exactly what this pastor is saying. That's not Liberty.

 

[xsited1]

We are the government, silly. And yes, I trust we the people more than I trust some religious blowhards that have no accountability.

Oh brother. Now I KNOW you are kidding! Our Republic ended years ago. By giving the government more control over our money, you're making matters even worse. But hey, if you don't like Liberty, then that's your deal. Just don't force your views on me.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Do you think every individual could be trusted to give away their fair share? I don't.

You know what I don't trust? Adults who use the word "fair" as though it has some sort of objective meaning.

 

[Cecilie1200]

define forcibly? paying taxes isn't force. you live in this country, you benefit from the government works such as military, infrastructure, education, etc.

should the wealthy be the only ones allowed to ride on the roads their tax payer dollars help build? should they be the only people treated in the hospitals funded by tax dollars? should their children be the only ones educated through public schools?

This bullshit of paying no taxes is laughable IMO. When did paying for the things our country needs become a bad thing?

Define "forcibly"? Try not paying your taxes to the IRS. I guarantee you, they'll define "forcibly" for you FAST.

And no one is talking about the military, infrastructure, education, all that stuff. The issue is CHARITY.

 

[Care4all]

You know what I don't trust? Adults who use the word "fair" as though it has some sort of objective meaning.

what is taught to elementary children...Fairness-Justice

HOW TO BE
A FAIR PERSON



Treat people the way you want to be treated.

Take Turns.

Tell the truth.

Play by the rules.

Think about how your actions will affect others.

Listen to people with an open mind.

Don't blame others for your mistakes.

Don't take advantage of other people.

Don't play favorites.
Fairness - Justice - Lesson Plan - The Six Pillars of Character - Character Counts - Popcorn Park

 

[xsited1]

what is taught to elementary children...Fairness-Justice

HOW TO BE
A FAIR PERSON

Here's a little riddle for you...

Let's say you want to give a homeless person $20. You reach into your wallet, but you don't have $20. You find someone who is dressed well, point a gun to their head and demand they give you $20. You then give that money to the homeless person.

Is that fair?

 

[Care4all]

Define "forcibly"? Try not paying your taxes to the IRS. I guarantee you, they'll define "forcibly" for you FAST.

And no one is talking about the military, infrastructure, education, all that stuff. The issue is CHARITY.

is the issue really charity? Or is it the "general welfare" of the public, that is being debated in meaning?

we are not forced, (so to say) to pay taxes to take care of the needy or the military....we live in a constitutional, Democratic Republic and our representaqtives VOTED for the taxes and chose how to spend them, as our representation....

care

 

[Cecilie1200]

No, you couldn't be more wrong. If that were true, in your mind, charity should be unpleasant to give and unpleasant to receive.

Um, yeah, that would be why I SAID that real charity is unpleasant to both give and receive.

It's amazing how, if you actually read my words, they tell you exactly what I mean.

The point of charity is to have a loving and giving heart.

Yeah, that all sounds very nice and soft and rosy, but have you bothered to ask yourself HOW it does that?

It generates thankfulness to God on the part of the recipient and it creates humbleness in the heart of the giver. Because any one of us could at any point be in a place where we need to receive charity. It should be done with a loving and giving nature, or it's pointless.

I am SO GLAD that you informed me that "loving and giving" are important to charity, because I just DID NOT KNOW THAT. I thought people gave charity because they hated their fellow man and were misers. Boy, is my face red. Did this have a point to being said? Any relation whatsoever to the post you were presumably responding to?

If you're giving charity just to make the person receiving the charity feel bad, then really, you should rethink giving it at all because that isn't charity. It's simply a way to make yourself feel superior.

Oh, yeah, that's what I said. "Hey, everybody, go down to your local street corner and give some change to the nearest wino you see, because it'll make him feel like crap."

What an utter waste of my time and everyone else's.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Ah, you are correct. Same as all non-profit organizations.

Churches don't pay taxes on goods purchased? What a ridiculous concept. They most certainly do. So do other non-profits and charities.

 

[Care4all]

Here's a little riddle for you...

Let's say you want to give a homeless person $20. You reach into your wallet, but you don't have $20. You find someone who is dressed well, point a gun to their head and demand they give you $20. You then give that money to the homeless person.

Is that fair?

just tooooo silly to answer......nor even close to reality!!!!!

 

[Cecilie1200]

It's about CONTROL.....Churches like his want to control the masses i would suppose?

Oh? You would suppose that, would you? And why, may I ask, would you suppose that? Based on what?

Churches don't have the money NOW to help all the needy that have fallen through the cracks....THEY TAKE GOVERNMENT MONEY to operate....

What in the holy heck are you babbling about?

FAITH BASED INITIATIVES......the government is now paying the churches to do charitible things, no?

No. Faith-based initiatives are intended to let the government work with faith-based organizations like the Salvation Army and the various charitable organizations associated with churches, not the churches themselves.

You would THINK churces like these would TURN DOWN government tax monies if "Charity beigins at home"....but they sure as heck ain't turning it down, now are they? That's called hypocrisy in my book....

I love it when people start flapping their gobs sententiously on subects they haven't bothered to know the first thing about. That's called "idiocy" in my book.

 

[xsited1]

is the issue really charity? Or is it the "general welfare" of the public, that is being debated in meaning?

we are not forced, (so to say) to pay taxes to take care of the needy or the military....we live in a constitutional, Democratic Republic and our representaqtives VOTED for the taxes and chose how to spend them, as our representation....

care

Do you know what the framers of the Constitution meant by 'General Welfare'?

 

[Care4all]

Churches don't pay taxes on goods purchased? What a ridiculous concept. They most certainly do. So do other non-profits and charities.

they do? i think NOT! they, the clergy, have tax exempt numbers used at the cash register when paying and taxes are omitted from the sale.....