UN vows inquiry into weapons found at UN sites in Gaza

[Billo_Really]

Do they have an occupation there, too?

No, they have Title 24.

 

[toastman]

You're the one who is claiming that is the reason for the rockets, not Hamas.

And the Rockets don't stop any of the things you mentioned, all they do is piss off siuther ers and the government and from time to time they kill and cause damage. Nonetheless, Israel will always strike at Hamas when they launch rockets, which is exactly what Hamas wants.

Can you be any more stupid and obtuse? If you can't empathize what it would be like to live under the occupation of a foreign force, then you got no business commenting on why the rockets are fired.

Let's face it, you're an Israeli homer, who has no intention of looking at this issue honestly and objectively.

Lets face it, you're an anti Zionist DELUDED shmuck who's biased. All you donis cry 'it's the occupation', but you're not able to comprehend that these Hamas attacks are what's resulting in Palestinian deaths

 

[RoccoR]

Billo_Really, et al,

Ah --- yeah! I've heard this before.

Billo_Really, et al,

I'm interested in the initial point of contact.

When and where?

Most Respectfully,
R

1967, when they held onto land they seized during the 6-day war.

(COMMENT)

In 1967:

• The West Bank was sovereign Jordanian Territory. The War between Israel and Jordan had started in 1948 when Jordan, as one of 5 armies of the Arab League, crossed their border and attempted to invaded the newly formed State of Israel. That War went into an Armistice arrangement in 1949. Jordan, with the assistance of Palestinian self-determination, annexed the West Bank in 1950. At the conclusion of the 6-Day War, the West Bank was "occupied Jordanian territory" (oJt) and NOT "occupied Palestinian territory" (oPt).

• The Gaza Strip was under the Egyptian Military Administrators, since 1959 when the All-Palestine Government was officially merged into the United Arab Republic. The Egyptian Military had seized the Gaza Strip when --- as one of 5 armies of the Arab League, Egyptian forces crossed their border and attempted to invaded the newly formed State of Israel in 1948 --- and transition in the 1949 Armistice arrangements. At the conclusion of the 6-Day War, the Gaza Strip went from being occupied by the Egyptians to being occupied by Israelis.

Neither the West Bank or the Gaza Strip were under the effective control of "Palestinians" in 1967 before the 6-Day War; nor was that territory under the "Palestinians" after the 6-Day War.

From the objective perspective of the Arab Palestinian, there was no net change. The 'effective control" changed hands.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[teddyearp]

What was this thread about again?

Your big mouth!

Yup. I started it. But you and yours have derailed it. And no. I am not going to play in your little forum playground. Your sig is an oxymoron.

And this is me saying to you:



And this is me



























ignoring you.

 

[Billo_Really]

Lets face it, you're an anti Zionist DELUDED shmuck who's biased. All you donis cry 'it's the occupation', but you're not able to comprehend that these Hamas attacks are what's resulting in Palestinian deaths

That's like saying,
"It's the woman's fault she was raped; she was wearing a red dress!"

 

[Billo_Really]

In 1967:

• The West Bank was sovereign Jordanian Territory. The War between Israel and Jordan had started in 1948 when Jordan, as one of 5 armies of the Arab League, crossed their border and attempted to invaded the newly formed State of Israel. That War went into an Armistice arrangement in 1949. Jordan, with the assistance of Palestinian self-determination, annexed the West Bank in 1950. At the conclusion of the 6-Day War, the West Bank was "occupied Jordanian territory" (oJt) and NOT "occupied Palestinian territory" (oPt).

• The Gaza Strip was under the Egyptian Military Administrators, since 1959 when the All-Palestine Government was officially merged into the United Arab Republic. The Egyptian Military had seized the Gaza Strip when --- as one of 5 armies of the Arab League, Egyptian forces crossed their border and attempted to invaded the newly formed State of Israel in 1948 --- and transition in the 1949 Armistice arrangements. At the conclusion of the 6-Day War, the Gaza Strip went from being occupied by the Egyptians to being occupied by Israelis.

Neither the West Bank or the Gaza Strip were under the effective control of "Palestinians" in 1967 before the 6-Day War; nor was that territory under the "Palestinians" after the 6-Day War.

From the objective perspective of the Arab Palestinian, there was no net change. The 'effective control" changed hands.

Most Respectfully,
R

An occupation is temporary. It is illegal to hold onto land seized in war. Israel does not own that land. Nor will they ever own that land. It doesn't matter how you classify the Palestinian's, it's irrelevant for an occupation to exist. What matters is, Israel has no clear title to that land.

What are the most important principles governing occupation?

The duties of the occupying power are spelled out primarily in the 1907 Hague Regulations (arts 42-56) and the Fourth Geneva Convention (GC IV, art. 27-34 and 47-78), as well as in certain provisions of Additional Protocol I and customary international humanitarian law.

Agreements concluded between the occupying power and the local authorities cannot deprive the population of occupied territory of the protection afforded by international humanitarian law (GC IV, art. 47) and protected persons themselves can in no circumstances renounce their rights (GC IV, art. 8).

The main rules o f the law applicable in case of occupation state that:

• The occupant does not acquire sovereignty over the territory.
• Occupation is only a temporary situation, and the rights of the occupant are limited to the extent of that period.

• To the fullest extent of the means available to it, the occupying power must ensure sufficient hygiene and public health standards, as well as the provision of food and medical care to the population under occupation.
  
• Collective or individual forcible transfers of population from and within the occupied territory are prohibited.
• Transfers of the civilian population of the occupying power into the occupied territory, regardless whether forcible or voluntary, are prohibited.
• Collective punishment is prohibited.
• The taking of hostages is prohibited.
• Reprisals against protected persons or their property are prohibited.
• The confiscation of private property by the occupant is prohibited.
• The destruction or seizure of enemy property is prohibited, unless absolutely required by military necessity during the conduct of hostilities.
• Cultural property must be respected.

 

[Phoenall]

Because launching rockets indiscriminatly, suicide bombs and random shooktings isn't resisting anything. It's random violence.

Nothing happens in a vacuum. They endured 37 years of martial law before the first rocket was fired. They are a population living under the belligerent occupation of a foreign force. Anything they do against that foreign force is considered resistance. That's the facts. That's the law. That's the truth.

What about the bombings, shootings, stabbings, beatints etc. that took place in those 37 years. They forced the martial law and the separation barrier to go up. Then the rockets and mortars began when the UN could not take action over the Palestinians loss of suicide bombings. The children in Israel are not a foreign force, and gaza is not under martial law or even occupied according to the people who should know. So why are they deliberately targeting unarmed civilians and children with their weapons of terror.

Any retaliation to the rockets is considered a retaliation to war. That's a fact. That's a LAW and that's the truth so let the Palestinians bring it on and face the deaths of 2,000 terrorists every month.

 

[theliq]

“I look forward to a thorough investigation by the Israeli Defense Forces of this and other incidents in which UN facilities sustained hits and many innocent people were killed,” he said. “I am planning to move forward with an independent Board of Inquiry to look into the most serious of those cases, as well as instances in which weaponry was found on UN premises.”

UN's Ban speaks in New York to the security council. And yeah for you pali's he is mostly concerned with the destruction of his precious UN facilities and any mention of inquiry into the illegal storage of weapons at UN sites was actually just lip service.

What a cull.

Further into the article:

In his meeting on Monday with Ya’alon, Ban confirmed his intention to establish a board of inquiry, and welcomed Israel’s support in bringing reconstruction materials into Gaza. Dujarric did not have any comment on assertions by Hamas that materials now coming into Gaza under a UN mechanism will be used for rebuilding the destroyed tunnels into Israel.

Hehehe, of course no comment. It seems as though Hamas and the UN are bed fellows.

Link: UN s Ban vows inquiry into weapons found at UN sites during Gaza war

I agree on one condition,THAT THE UN WEAPONS INSPECTORS,LOOK INTO ISRAELS.......NUCLEAR FACILITY.........Thought NOT

Perhaps you could explain how Israel is relevant to the matter of UNRWA's collusion with Hamas? Thought NOT.

Laugh all you like.....I repeat my question Again......yeah Thought NOT..............anyhow Israel are and have been in discussions with Hamas for the past 18 months...........keep up to speed

 

[Phoenall]

Because they target schools, children and other places children congregate, and not the military. In the case of gaza they freely admit that they are not occupied so have no need to " resist " anything, yet they are the biggest offenders for targeting children.

They have indiscriminate weapons. They target anything, dumbass!

Then why do they target children with their Iranian Grad rockets. They are not indiscriminate they can be controlled and yet they get morons to claim they don't have weapons that can be discriminatory. The mines they have dug and underneath schools and were packed with H.E. that is not indiscriminate is it, but deliberately targeting children. The firing of anti tank missiles that are steerable at school buses shows they deliberately target children. The planting of concealed IED's in school playgrounds and sports pitches is not indiscriminate it is deliberately targeting children
Now that the facts have been laid face up on the table I expect you to go on one of your foul mouthed rants because you have no answer to the points raised.

 

[Phoenall]

What Hamas does is not resistance. And no, they should not have weapons

And why is it not resistance?

Is there an electrical engineer here?

Sort of

Resistance is an opposition to a force that reduces its effectiveness until it becomes tamed .

That is it in simplistic terms

 

[toastman]

Lets face it, you're an anti Zionist DELUDED shmuck who's biased. All you donis cry 'it's the occupation', but you're not able to comprehend that these Hamas attacks are what's resulting in Palestinian deaths

That's like saying,
"It's the woman's fault she was raped; she was wearing a red dress!"

This is in the top 3 of your most pathetic comparisons!
Wow!

 

[toastman]

In 1967:

• The West Bank was sovereign Jordanian Territory. The War between Israel and Jordan had started in 1948 when Jordan, as one of 5 armies of the Arab League, crossed their border and attempted to invaded the newly formed State of Israel. That War went into an Armistice arrangement in 1949. Jordan, with the assistance of Palestinian self-determination, annexed the West Bank in 1950. At the conclusion of the 6-Day War, the West Bank was "occupied Jordanian territory" (oJt) and NOT "occupied Palestinian territory" (oPt).

• The Gaza Strip was under the Egyptian Military Administrators, since 1959 when the All-Palestine Government was officially merged into the United Arab Republic. The Egyptian Military had seized the Gaza Strip when --- as one of 5 armies of the Arab League, Egyptian forces crossed their border and attempted to invaded the newly formed State of Israel in 1948 --- and transition in the 1949 Armistice arrangements. At the conclusion of the 6-Day War, the Gaza Strip went from being occupied by the Egyptians to being occupied by Israelis.

Neither the West Bank or the Gaza Strip were under the effective control of "Palestinians" in 1967 before the 6-Day War; nor was that territory under the "Palestinians" after the 6-Day War.

From the objective perspective of the Arab Palestinian, there was no net change. The 'effective control" changed hands.

Most Respectfully,
R

An occupation is temporary. It is illegal to hold onto land seized in war. Israel does not own that land. Nor will they ever own that land. It doesn't matter how you classify the Palestinian's, it's irrelevant for an occupation to exist. What matters is, Israel has no clear title to that land.

What are the most important principles governing occupation?

The duties of the occupying power are spelled out primarily in the 1907 Hague Regulations (arts 42-56) and the Fourth Geneva Convention (GC IV, art. 27-34 and 47-78), as well as in certain provisions of Additional Protocol I and customary international humanitarian law.

Agreements concluded between the occupying power and the local authorities cannot deprive the population of occupied territory of the protection afforded by international humanitarian law (GC IV, art. 47) and protected persons themselves can in no circumstances renounce their rights (GC IV, art. 8).

The main rules o f the law applicable in case of occupation state that:

• The occupant does not acquire sovereignty over the territory.
• Occupation is only a temporary situation, and the rights of the occupant are limited to the extent of that period.

• To the fullest extent of the means available to it, the occupying power must ensure sufficient hygiene and public health standards, as well as the provision of food and medical care to the population under occupation.
  
• Collective or individual forcible transfers of population from and within the occupied territory are prohibited.
• Transfers of the civilian population of the occupying power into the occupied territory, regardless whether forcible or voluntary, are prohibited.
• Collective punishment is prohibited.
• The taking of hostages is prohibited.
• Reprisals against protected persons or their property are prohibited.
• The confiscation of private property by the occupant is prohibited.
• The destruction or seizure of enemy property is prohibited, unless absolutely required by military necessity during the conduct of hostilities.
• Cultural property must be respected.

You say occupations are supposed to be temporary. How many years are they supposed to be for then?

 

[Phoenall]

They don't. They claim the right to resist occupation and oppression by any and all means at their disposal, and no people have a "right of self defence" over territory it illegally occupies. 2. Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, particularly armed struggle;A RES 33 24 of 29 November 1978

That's what palistanians have chosen as per freedom of occupation. They'd been having some other occupation otherwise, of course.

I am still waiting for team Palestine to explain how digging a tunnel into Israel to end underneath a school and then packing the end with High Explosives to MASS MURDER all the children is seen as resistance

Care to cite a source for this allegation?

This do you

Hamas tunnels planned to target Israeli kindergartens. Oh by the way there are tunnels on the US border too. - Allen B. West - AllenBWest.com

As reported by the Daily Caller, “Multiple media outlets report that Hamas’s offensive tunnel network – now known to have been composed of over forty attack tunnels dug underneath Israel’s border with the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip – was set to be activated during the Jewish High Holidays (September 24th) as a mass terror attack. The attack was meant to generate as many as ten thousand casualties, men, women and particularly children and hundreds of captives. Explosives were particularly placed underneath kindergartens to make certain that these “institutions” would be the first struck, even before any thing else.”

 

[Phoenall]

Because they target schools, children and other places children congregate, and not the military. In the case of gaza they freely admit that they are not occupied so have no need to " resist " anything, yet they are the biggest offenders for targeting children.

They have indiscriminate weapons. They target anything, dumbass!

Disagree, they have inaccurate weapons.

They also have very accurate weapons that are used to target children, as shown by the school bus targeted by an anti tank missile.

 

[Phoenall]

What Hamas does is not resistance. And no, they should not have weapons

And why is it not resistance?

Because launching rockets indiscriminatly, suicide bombs and random shooktings isn't resisting anything. It's random violence.

What's a shookting?

A typo as you well know, and it is a neo Marxist trick to call out any typo when they don't have an answer to the points raised.

 

[RoccoR]

Billo_Really, et al,

I'm not sure that I disagree entirely with this statement; with minor corrections.

An occupation is temporary. It is illegal to hold onto land seized in war. Israel does not own that land. Nor will they ever own that land. It doesn't matter how you classify the Palestinian's, it's irrelevant for an occupation to exist. What matters is, Israel has no clear title to that land.

(CORRECTION) For proper context.

• Guided by the principles of the Charter of the United Nations affirming the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force and recalling relevant Security Council resolutions, including resolutions 242 (1967) of 22 November 1967, 252 (1968) of 21 May 1968, 338 (1973) of 22 October 1973, 465 (1980) of 1 March 1980 and 497 (1981) of 17 December 1981,
  • It is NOT "illegal to hold onto land seized in war." There is no law, convention or rule that prohibits this. What is prohibited is the annexation of territory acquired through the use of force.
    • The UN Charter of 1945, made the use of force unlawful except in
      • a) self-defence or through
      • b) the principle of collective security.

• Reaffirming the applicability of the Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, of 12 August 1949, to the Occupied Palestinian Territory (oPt), including East Jerusalem, and other Arab territories occupied by Israel since 1967,

In general, the State of Israel is not permanently claiming the Arab territories occupied by Israel since 1967. It is not a land seizure effort in the context of ownership through a real estate "clear title."

(COMMENT)

In June 67, the Israel Defense Force (IDF) occupied what remained of the territory that was allocated for the Arab State, pursuant to the Partition Plan outlined in General Assembly Resolution 181(II); the remainder of the former Mandated Palestine consisting of the:

• West Bank, including East Jerusalem, which was under Jordanian control,
• Gaza Strip, which was under Egyptian administration.

The State of Israel became a belligerent occupation power and the civilian population, thereinafter became "protected persons." Since that time, with the exception of the Oslo Accords, the Arab Palestinians have not concluded a peace treaty with the Israelis. Thus, no final resolution has been made as to the status of Arab territories occupied by Israel since 1967.

If the Arab Palestinians want a conclusion, they must actively seek-out and negotiate a treaty. It is really that simple.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Challenger]

...If the Arab Palestinians want a conclusion, they must actively seek-out and negotiate a treaty. It is really that simple.

...or take the land back themselves by any means they have at their disposal.

 

[Challenger]

What Hamas does is not resistance. And no, they should not have weapons

And why is it not resistance?

Because launching rockets indiscriminatly, suicide bombs and random shooktings isn't resisting anything. It's random violence.

What's a shookting?

A typo as you well know, and it is a neo Marxist trick to call out any typo when they don't have an answer to the points raised.

So now I'm a "neo-Marxist", is that a promotion from "leftie"?

As it happens, given the "K" and "T" keys are so far apart, on my keyboared, at least, I thought it might be some anglicised Yiddish or Hebrew word.

As to answering points, I didn't see any.

 

[Challenger]

Because they target schools, children and other places children congregate, and not the military. In the case of gaza they freely admit that they are not occupied so have no need to " resist " anything, yet they are the biggest offenders for targeting children.

They have indiscriminate weapons. They target anything, dumbass!

Disagree, they have inaccurate weapons.

They also have very accurate weapons that are used to target children, as shown by the school bus targeted by an anti tank missile.

Yeah, not so much. This is what an anti-tank missile does when it hits.



Whatever hit the bus in question wasn't an anti-tank missile

 

[Billo_Really]

Billo_Really, et al,

I'm not sure that I disagree entirely with this statement; with minor corrections.

An occupation is temporary. It is illegal to hold onto land seized in war. Israel does not own that land. Nor will they ever own that land. It doesn't matter how you classify the Palestinian's, it's irrelevant for an occupation to exist. What matters is, Israel has no clear title to that land.

(CORRECTION) For proper context.

• Guided by the principles of the Charter of the United Nations affirming the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force and recalling relevant Security Council resolutions, including resolutions 242 (1967) of 22 November 1967, 252 (1968) of 21 May 1968, 338 (1973) of 22 October 1973, 465 (1980) of 1 March 1980 and 497 (1981) of 17 December 1981,
  • It is NOT "illegal to hold onto land seized in war." There is no law, convention or rule that prohibits this. What is prohibited is the annexation of territory acquired through the use of force.
    • The UN Charter of 1945, made the use of force unlawful except in
      • a) self-defence or through
      • b) the principle of collective security.

• Reaffirming the applicability of the Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, of 12 August 1949, to the Occupied Palestinian Territory (oPt), including East Jerusalem, and other Arab territories occupied by Israel since 1967,

In general, the State of Israel is not permanently claiming the Arab territories occupied by Israel since 1967. It is not a land seizure effort in the context of ownership through a real estate "clear title."

(COMMENT)

In June 67, the Israel Defense Force (IDF) occupied what remained of the territory that was allocated for the Arab State, pursuant to the Partition Plan outlined in General Assembly Resolution 181(II); the remainder of the former Mandated Palestine consisting of the:

• West Bank, including East Jerusalem, which was under Jordanian control,
• Gaza Strip, which was under Egyptian administration.

The State of Israel became a belligerent occupation power and the civilian population, thereinafter became "protected persons." Since that time, with the exception of the Oslo Accords, the Arab Palestinians have not concluded a peace treaty with the Israelis. Thus, no final resolution has been made as to the status of Arab territories occupied by Israel since 1967.

If the Arab Palestinians want a conclusion, they must actively seek-out and negotiate a treaty. It is really that simple.

Most Respectfully,
R

No, it has nothing to do with the Palestinian's. Resolution 242 tells Israel to get the fuck off that land! Those settlements they keep building are a clear violation of international law. The ICC has ruled as such. You cannot transfer a part of your population into an area you occupy. And Israel is not doing anything to protect the population living under their occupation.

You go look at all the past occupations to date, I doubt if any of them lasted 10 years. This one has lasted almost 50! That is fucking ridiculous!

And will you stop bringing up that bullshit resolution 181? That is a dead resolution with no enforcement provisions. Once the Security Council refused to vote on it, it became a null and void document. And you constantly bringing it up as though it has some relevancy, is bullshit!