Trump's high wire act

[Ray From Cleveland]

Sure I believe that, and you can't prove me wrong.

You mean Jason Van Dyke, where the city hid his action for two years before someone investigate. Shot that kid 16 times when he was lying on the ground, they caught it on tape, tried to pay off the family. This guy STILL hasn't gone to jail.

Or Darren Wilson, who had a grand jury, where they only called witnesses that supported his version, including one woman with mental illness who wasn't even a witness.

Or Timothy Loemann, who was fired for having a mental breakdown on the firing range, but then they put him on the streets of your miserable city and he shot a child playing with a toy.

And please find me three cases of WHITE kids being shot by cops that were equally suspicious.

Thanks.

Nothing you listed was suspicious. You just keep pumping out lies hoping I'll break down and actually believe one of them.

But lies don't make the case for racism, lies only makes the case for liars. Lies like who was called in the grand jury hearing of Wilson. Lies like the Independence officer was fired, and he had some sort of breakdown at a firing range when nobody but the guy that had it out for him was witness to it. Furthermore that the Independence police department gave him a favorable reference when the Cleveland police called for one.

 

[JoeB131]

Nothing you listed was suspicious. You just keep pumping out lies hoping I'll break down and actually believe one of them.

But lies don't make the case for racism, lies only makes the case for liars. Lies like who was called in the grand jury hearing of Wilson. Lies like the Independence officer was fired, and he had some sort of breakdown at a firing range when nobody but the guy that had it out for him was witness to it. Furthermore that the Independence police department gave him a favorable reference when the Cleveland police called for one.

i notice you aren't touching Van Dyke... I wonder why.

Cities just don't fire people on the word of one guy. Not with unions and liabilities involved. This guy had a thick file of "Why I can't be trusted with a gun", and Cleveland hired him anyway.

And this is the problem with racist cops. They LITERALLY have to murder someone to get fired.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Nothing you listed was suspicious. You just keep pumping out lies hoping I'll break down and actually believe one of them.

But lies don't make the case for racism, lies only makes the case for liars. Lies like who was called in the grand jury hearing of Wilson. Lies like the Independence officer was fired, and he had some sort of breakdown at a firing range when nobody but the guy that had it out for him was witness to it. Furthermore that the Independence police department gave him a favorable reference when the Cleveland police called for one.

i notice you aren't touching Van Dyke... I wonder why.

Cities just don't fire people on the word of one guy. Not with unions and liabilities involved. This guy had a thick file of "Why I can't be trusted with a gun", and Cleveland hired him anyway.

And this is the problem with racist cops. They LITERALLY have to murder someone to get fired.

The problem is he was never fired from Independence. He quit to take the job in Cleveland.

 

[JoeB131]

[

The problem is he was never fired from Independence. He quit to take the job in Cleveland.

You keep telling yourself that...

Meanwhile...

Timothy Loehmann, the Cleveland cop who shot Tamir Rice, failed the Cuyahoga County Sheriff's Department's written entrance exam (documents)

Timothy Loehmann, the Cleveland police officer who fatally shot 12-year-old Tamir Rice in November, previously failed the written test to become a deputy with Cuyahoga County Sheriff's Department, according to records released on Wednesday.

In September 2013, Loehmann scored a 46 percent on the department's written cognitive exam, administered by Cuyahoga Community College and given to potential recruits. Seventy percent is considered a passing score. Recruits are tested on problem-solving, vocabulary, grammar, punctuation and spelling.

Ugh. Seriously?

Cleveland officer who killed Tamir Rice had been deemed unfit for duty

According to Loehmann’s personnel records, released by the city of Independence, police officials were in the process of firing him when he resigned in December 2012. Supervisors (not just one guy, Ray!) described an emotionally unstable recruit with a “lack of maturity” and “inability to perform basic functions as instructed” during a weapons training exercise.

Oh, but it gets better...

The outrageous and tragic hiring of officer Timothy Loehmann by the Cleveland police

—Starting on page 46, we learn that Loehmann had unsuccessfully applied for jobs in multiple police departments between 2010 and 2012, including the New York police department, but wasn't hired by any of them.

—On page 46, we learn that Loehmann, 23 years old at the time, had never held a full-time job in his life and that he was currently working a part-time maintenance job for $8 an hour.

And it goes on to discuss his tenure at Independence, where MULTIPLE superiors determined he was unfit for police work.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

[

The problem is he was never fired from Independence. He quit to take the job in Cleveland.

You keep telling yourself that...

Meanwhile...

Timothy Loehmann, the Cleveland cop who shot Tamir Rice, failed the Cuyahoga County Sheriff's Department's written entrance exam (documents)

Timothy Loehmann, the Cleveland police officer who fatally shot 12-year-old Tamir Rice in November, previously failed the written test to become a deputy with Cuyahoga County Sheriff's Department, according to records released on Wednesday.

In September 2013, Loehmann scored a 46 percent on the department's written cognitive exam, administered by Cuyahoga Community College and given to potential recruits. Seventy percent is considered a passing score. Recruits are tested on problem-solving, vocabulary, grammar, punctuation and spelling.

Ugh. Seriously?

Cleveland officer who killed Tamir Rice had been deemed unfit for duty

According to Loehmann’s personnel records, released by the city of Independence, police officials were in the process of firing him when he resigned in December 2012. Supervisors (not just one guy, Ray!) described an emotionally unstable recruit with a “lack of maturity” and “inability to perform basic functions as instructed” during a weapons training exercise.

Oh, but it gets better...

The outrageous and tragic hiring of officer Timothy Loehmann by the Cleveland police

—Starting on page 46, we learn that Loehmann had unsuccessfully applied for jobs in multiple police departments between 2010 and 2012, including the New York police department, but wasn't hired by any of them.

—On page 46, we learn that Loehmann, 23 years old at the time, had never held a full-time job in his life and that he was currently working a part-time maintenance job for $8 an hour.

And it goes on to discuss his tenure at Independence, where MULTIPLE superiors determined he was unfit for police work.

Wonderful, but no unbiased sources. Just left leaning ones. But since you like leftist sources, CNN reported this:

Loehmann joined the Cleveland Police Department in March. A Cleveland Police spokesman said Thursday that during a background check before hiring Loehmann, his department didn't review the officer's personnel file from Independence, a suburb south of the city. Detectives did speak with the Independence human resources director, the spokesman said.

"During that interview detectives inquired if there were any disciplinary actions or incidents that Cleveland Police should be aware of prior to hiring Loehmann, at which point they were told there were none," Sgt. Ali Pillow said. "The reason for departure indicated was resignation. Officer Loehmann indicated that he resigned for personal reasons, which was substantiated by the City of Independence."

Cop who shot Tamir Rice called 'distracted and weepy' - CNN.com

So there are some real questions here. How is it this supervisor from Independence had all these issues with Loehmann, but he was able to pass the Cleveland Police Academy with no problem? If this supervisor had such problems with his performance, why was it not on record for the Independence to forward those concerns to Cleveland Police??? All of those so-called issues seemed to be off record.

Okay, maybe the Cleveland police academy is an easier course than Independence! Well, that might make sense if the didn't pass that police academy as well.

We have all (or most of us) worked for a company where the supervisor just hated you. No matter what you did, the guy would never take a liking to you.

 

[JoeB131]

Wonderful, but no unbiased sources. Just left leaning ones. But since you like leftist sources, CNN reported this:

Loehmann joined the Cleveland Police Department in March. A Cleveland Police spokesman said Thursday that during a background check before hiring Loehmann, his department didn't review the officer's personnel file from Independence, a suburb south of the city. Detectives did speak with the Independence human resources director, the spokesman said.

"During that interview detectives inquired if there were any disciplinary actions or incidents that Cleveland Police should be aware of prior to hiring Loehmann, at which point they were told there were none," Sgt. Ali Pillow said. "The reason for departure indicated was resignation. Officer Loehmann indicated that he resigned for personal reasons, which was substantiated by the City of Independence."

that sounds like two organizations trying to cover their asses. None of this indicates that Loehmann was actually good police material. Shame on Independence if they weren't as forthcoming, but shame on Cleveland for not digging deeper. A guy quitting a job after 5 months is ALWAYS a red flag.

So there are some real questions here. How is it this supervisor from Independence had all these issues with Loehmann, but he was able to pass the Cleveland Police Academy with no problem? If this supervisor had such problems with his performance, why was it not on record for the Independence to forward those concerns to Cleveland Police??? All of those so-called issues seemed to be off record.

They weren't off the record. They had a very thick record that indicated he was messed up that several officers attested to

Okay, maybe the Cleveland police academy is an easier course than Independence! Well, that might make sense if the didn't pass that police academy as well.

Bullshit. Slager passed an academy. Van Dyke passed an academy. Wilson passed an academy. That means nothing, other than academies do a shitty job of weeding out the bad apples.

We have all (or most of us) worked for a company where the supervisor just hated you. No matter what you did, the guy would never take a liking to you.

Um, yeah, the thing was, my jerkier supervisors could never point to an incident where I went on to shoot a 12 year old and say, "I told you that guy was no good!" It seems to me that if your complaint is "Lacks the maturity to handle a gun" and then he goes out and shoots a child for no good reason, the guy had a point.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Um, yeah, the thing was, my jerkier supervisors could never point to an incident where I went on to shoot a 12 year old and say, "I told you that guy was no good!" It seems to me that if your complaint is "Lacks the maturity to handle a gun" and then he goes out and shoots a child for no good reason, the guy had a point.

He had a very good reason. This 5'8" 200 lbs "child" pulled out a realistic gun on the officer. Even the Grand Jury agreed that he broke no laws and could not be charged.

Bullshit. Slager passed an academy. Van Dyke passed an academy. Wilson passed an academy. That means nothing, other than academies do a shitty job of weeding out the bad apples.

If he passed two academies, then obviously they didn't experience the same issues this Supervisor did. I would think that if he couldn't handle a gun, made a lot of bad decisions, it would be consistent......no???

They weren't off the record. They had a very thick record that indicated he was messed up that several officers attested to

If he had such a thick record, why didn't Independence police tell Cleveland about it? As the article points out, Independence stated there were no issues with the officer. Seems to me this supervisor created his own opinions without putting it in writing.

 

[JoeB131]

He had a very good reason. This 5'8" 200 lbs "child" pulled out a realistic gun on the officer. Even the Grand Jury agreed that he broke no laws and could not be charged.

Uh, no. The tape showed that the toy was still in his belt and his hands were in the pocket, which is why the city paid off his family. That we still let prosecutors let cops off in rigged hearings is the problem.

If he passed two academies, then obviously they didn't experience the same issues this Supervisor did. I would think that if he couldn't handle a gun, made a lot of bad decisions, it would be consistent......no???

Right. He showed bad judgement in Cleveland AND Independence. That's my fucking point.

The fact that these academies can't weed out the Loehmans, Van Dykes, Slagers, Wilsons and other piece of shit bullies with badges and guns just shows we need to revamp the academies.

Also, it's not clear that he did attend two academies at all.

What is clear is that there was a five month gap between when Independence fired him and Cleveland hired him, putting the lie to "he quit to take a better job."

If he had such a thick record, why didn't Independence police tell Cleveland about it? As the article points out, Independence stated there were no issues with the officer. Seems to me this supervisor created his own opinions without putting it in writing.

Except it was put in writing. Cleveland just never asked for the records. Come on, guy, stop trying to write your own reality on this one. This was a piece of garbage who shot a child with no justification.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

He had a very good reason. This 5'8" 200 lbs "child" pulled out a realistic gun on the officer. Even the Grand Jury agreed that he broke no laws and could not be charged.

Uh, no. The tape showed that the toy was still in his belt and his hands were in the pocket, which is why the city paid off his family. That we still let prosecutors let cops off in rigged hearings is the problem.

If he passed two academies, then obviously they didn't experience the same issues this Supervisor did. I would think that if he couldn't handle a gun, made a lot of bad decisions, it would be consistent......no???

Right. He showed bad judgement in Cleveland AND Independence. That's my fucking point.

The fact that these academies can't weed out the Loehmans, Van Dykes, Slagers, Wilsons and other piece of shit bullies with badges and guns just shows we need to revamp the academies.

Also, it's not clear that he did attend two academies at all.

What is clear is that there was a five month gap between when Independence fired him and Cleveland hired him, putting the lie to "he quit to take a better job."

If he had such a thick record, why didn't Independence police tell Cleveland about it? As the article points out, Independence stated there were no issues with the officer. Seems to me this supervisor created his own opinions without putting it in writing.

Except it was put in writing. Cleveland just never asked for the records. Come on, guy, stop trying to write your own reality on this one. This was a piece of garbage who shot a child with no justification.

Only in your warped mind. Here is your typical leftist thinking:

He had a bad record with Independence, but they just didn't tell Cleveland about it.

HIs supervisor found all kinds of problems with the officer, but the police academies didn't, so the supervisor was correct.

The Grand Jury seen the kid pulling out his realistic toy gun, but you didn't, so they must be wrong and you right even though they went through the recording frame by frame.

The officer should have known it was a toy, but in past discussions, even YOU couldn't tell the difference between the real gun and the toy that he had.

 

[JoeB131]

Only in your warped mind. Here is your typical leftist thinking:

He had a bad record with Independence, but they just didn't tell Cleveland about it.

No, Cleveland didn't ask. Probably because they didn't care.

HIs supervisor found all kinds of problems with the officer, but the police academies didn't, so the supervisor was correct.

Um, it was multiple supervisors, and the academies didn't have to work with this guy on the street.

The Grand Jury seen the kid pulling out his realistic toy gun, but you didn't, so they must be wrong and you right even though they went through the recording frame by frame.

So you can show me the frame where he's pulling the gun out, right?

didn't think so.

The officer should have known it was a toy, but in past discussions, even YOU couldn't tell the difference between the real gun and the toy that he had.

Actually, I never said any such thing, but we know you are losing this argument again. Since Officer McShooty never saw the gun, and he waited all of 1.6 seconds to fire, it's unlikely he really gave it that much thought.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So you can show me the frame where he's pulling the gun out, right?

didn't think so.

I can't, but CNN did. And if you bother to watch it (which I doubt you will) you will hear the reporter state that the gun was found on the ground after Rice was shot:

 

[JoeB131]

I can't, but CNN did. And if you bother to watch it (which I doubt you will) you will hear the reporter state that the gun was found on the ground after Rice was shot:

so you got nothing, then

Simple standard- The gun , out , in Tamir's hand, when Officer McShooty Loehmann shot him.

That should be really easy to produce, if such a picture existed.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I can't, but CNN did. And if you bother to watch it (which I doubt you will) you will hear the reporter state that the gun was found on the ground after Rice was shot:

so you got nothing, then

Simple standard- The gun , out , in Tamir's hand, when Officer McShooty Loehmann shot him.

That should be really easy to produce, if such a picture existed.

It was reported by one of your own, Central Communist Network.

 

[JoeB131]

It was reported by one of your own, Central Communist Network.

Uh, no, guy. Show me a still from that tape that shows the gun out in Tamir's hand, with Officer Loehman's police cruiser in the frame.

Not one from 20 minutes before when he was playing with it, and everyone around him could see it was a toy.

If you have tape, you should be able to CLEARLY SHOW US where the threat was. Not what this woman's opinion was.

Because I look at that tape, I don't see a gun.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It was reported by one of your own, Central Communist Network.

Uh, no, guy. Show me a still from that tape that shows the gun out in Tamir's hand, with Officer Loehman's police cruiser in the frame.

Not one from 20 minutes before when he was playing with it, and everyone around him could see it was a toy.

If you have tape, you should be able to CLEARLY SHOW US where the threat was. Not what this woman's opinion was.

Because I look at that tape, I don't see a gun.

So it just popped out of his pants all by itself? Try tucking anything like a gun into your pants, collapse, and see if it comes out.

 

[JoeB131]

So it just popped out of his pants all by itself? Try tucking anything like a gun into your pants, collapse, and see if it comes out.

Guy, you are the only one who thinks a gun compensates for something in your pants.

And we only have the lying police departments word anything "popped out".

again- WHERE'S THE PICTURE?

Not your interpretation of an interpretation of a CNN talking head. If he had the TOY out, it should be on that tape.

It isn't.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So it just popped out of his pants all by itself? Try tucking anything like a gun into your pants, collapse, and see if it comes out.

Guy, you are the only one who thinks a gun compensates for something in your pants.

And we only have the lying police departments word anything "popped out".

again- WHERE'S THE PICTURE?

Not your interpretation of an interpretation of a CNN talking head. If he had the TOY out, it should be on that tape.

It isn't.

Oh please, you know as well as I do that blurry tape didn't show specifics, but the investigation, the grand jury decision, the final outcome all work against your conspiracy theories. No cop would have shot a guy unless he seen a gun. Shooting somebody who didn't pose a threat to you is a murder charge. And as the CNN post clearly stated, you can see his arm in front of him and his shoulder greatly moving upwards. Or I guess now you will tell me he was just doing shoulder exercises.

 

[JoeB131]

Oh please, you know as well as I do that blurry tape didn't show specifics, but the investigation, the grand jury decision, the final outcome all work against your conspiracy theories.

Okay, let's talk about that Grand Jury.

The Grand Jury in the Tamir Rice Case Did Not Take a Vote on Charges (Updated)

The grand jury that opted not to indict Cleveland police officers Timothy Loehmann and Frank Garmback in the shooting death of Tamir Rice never actually took a vote on the matter, according to the Cuyahoga County Prosecutor's Office.

What actually happened in the most significant grand jury hearing in county history isn't quite clear, and the mechanism by which the grand jury "declined to indict" — in Prosecutor Timothy McGinty's own words — is equally unclear.

Wow. Really? But it gets better.

As for a case that went before a grand jury but didn't result in a vote, Witmer-Rich said, "I'm not aware of an example...It could happen, I suppose, but I've never heard anyone talk about that."

Professor Lewis Katz, a criminal law expert at the Case Western Reserve University School of Law, noted that investigative grand juries are ordinarily held in secret. In his view, the Tamir Rice grand jury was not investigative.

When informed that not only is that what the Prosecutor's Office said (i.e. that it was an investigative grand jury) but that no vote occurred at the end of the proceedings, Katz said, "I'm stunned."

No cop would have shot a guy unless he seen a gun. Shooting somebody who didn't pose a threat to you is a murder charge.

Really? Cops shoot 1200 people a year. How many of them are charged with murder? They didn't even charge that guy who shot a woman hiding behind her door in Chicago when he gunned down a mentally ill man and one of the bullets hit her. The reality is, we've given the police a pretty wide latitude to kill citizens, and that's the problem, especially when you make guys like Timothy "Crying so hard that they had to take his gun away" Loehmann cops.

Shit, and I hate to keep going back to this case, but Jason Van Dyke shot a kid lying on the ground 16 times, it took a year to get the tape released, it took another year to indict his ass for murder, and maybe, just maybe a jury in a neighboring county might hear the case some time next year.

Being a cop is practically a license to kill people. We should be a lot more careful about who we give those licenses to.

And as the CNN post clearly stated, you can see his arm in front of him and his shoulder greatly moving upwards. Or I guess now you will tell me he was just doing shoulder exercises.

Again, still not seeing a gun. (because he didn't have a gun). Not seeing a toy that looks like a gun. Also, given that Officer McWeepy shot the kid all of 1.6 seconds after leaping out of his car, it's not like he had time to really tell what that kid was doing.

 

[JoeB131]

Oh, one final note

Ohio prosecutor criticized for his handling of Tamir Rice case lost his bid for reelection

The Ohio prosecutor heavily criticized for failing to indict two Cleveland police officers in the fatal shooting of 12-year-old Tamir Rice has lost his bid for re-election.

Cuyahoga County Prosecutor Timothy J. McGinty was unable to hold off a challenge from Democrat Michael O’Malley, a suburban public safety director, in a primary election with heavy voter turnout on Tuesday.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Oh, one final note

Ohio prosecutor criticized for his handling of Tamir Rice case lost his bid for reelection

The Ohio prosecutor heavily criticized for failing to indict two Cleveland police officers in the fatal shooting of 12-year-old Tamir Rice has lost his bid for re-election.

Cuyahoga County Prosecutor Timothy J. McGinty was unable to hold off a challenge from Democrat Michael O’Malley, a suburban public safety director, in a primary election with heavy voter turnout on Tuesday.

Gee, now I wonder how that happened? Then you ask why Cleveland gave the kids mother millions of dollars?