Trump's high wire act

[Redfish]

everyone

please use the quote function. otherwise its impossible to see who you are responding to

 

[Rustic]

A person is getting overpaid for riding around on a floor sweeping machine for $28.00 an hour because his labor doesn't produce profit. manual labor produces up to twice what he's getting paid. It works the same for CEO's. If a CEO is getting paid 5 million a year, it's because he or she is bringing in 10 million dollars of work.

Except that isn't what happened. The guy who ran GM when it filed for bankruptcy and had to be bailed out by the government got a salary of 12 million. He ran his company so badly it LOST money to the degree that the government had to save it. And then they put saving jobs ahead of paying investors, and they were sooooooooooo mad!

It had nothing to do with Republicans. If the commies wanted single payer, they could have voted in single payer like they voted for CommieCare. It was all up to them. We had nothing to do with this disaster.

The Commies? Only Commie in Congress is Sanders... maybe.

And, yes, the GOPopposing their own ideas because the black guy did it really was the problem.

So now we have the black guy gone, and the Republicans are all looking for a way to do what they should have done in 2009 that will fix the system and still cover them with guys like you who hate ObamaCare because it has the word Obama in it.

Socialism in any form has never been successful long-term. You're too busy playing videogames in your mothers basement to read facts like that... obviously

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So why is it white people get rehab when they are caught taking drugs and black folks get prison?

Shit, it's been three years since that racist cop shot LaQuan McDonald, he still hasn't been put on trial yet.

Why? Because the black guy likely has a record of getting busted with drugs and is no stranger to the court. That's why.

People get sentenced based on a number of things--not just the charge. The charge is all you read about.

It's based on how the suspect interacted with police. The past criminal record of the suspect. The suspects conduct in court via attire and attitude towards the judge and court.

But a friend and coworker of mine works at the courts downtown, so I asked him if there was any racial bias in the courts? He said he had no evidence of any bias, but in his opinion, yes, blacks often get more time in prison than whites. But guess by who? That's right, black judges.

It make sense too. If a white judge disliked blacks, the worst thing he could do to the black community is send criminal blacks back there. But black judges live in those black communities. If they don't, they have family and friends that do, and they want to get rid of the problem makers more than anybody.

Actually, Trump is already getting pushback on his immigration stupidity from businesses and communities. I give it about two years of sending back sick kids and moms before we - the majority who voted against him - get sick of it.

Wrong, we are loving his immigration stance. But of course, at the moment, he's not doing anything different than DumBama, it's just that your precious MSM has you fooled into believing Trump is doing something different.

 

[Rustic]

No, you're the PC Police for other reasons. As we have seen on this thread.

And I'd ask for an example of my patting Ray on the back for saying the most racist shit imaginable, but we both know that's just another fantasy of yours.

Funny, I've never seen you challenge a racist on here, not once.

Your politically correct so you don't get to tell people what is racist and what is not… Because you dont know what real racism is. If you get out of your mothers basement every once in a while you might.

 

[Mac1958]

No, you're the PC Police for other reasons. As we have seen on this thread.

And I'd ask for an example of my patting Ray on the back for saying the most racist shit imaginable, but we both know that's just another fantasy of yours.

Funny, I've never seen you challenge a racist on here, not once.

Your threshold for what is "racism" is so low, there's really no way for me to know what would qualify.

I take the words "racism" and "racist" seriously. They're real. They matter to me.

For you, they're nothing more than a weapon you toss around to feel good about yourself.
.

 

[Rustic]

No, you're the PC Police for other reasons. As we have seen on this thread.

And I'd ask for an example of my patting Ray on the back for saying the most racist shit imaginable, but we both know that's just another fantasy of yours.

Funny, I've never seen you challenge a racist on here, not once.

Your threshold for what is "racism" is so low, there's really no way for me to know what would qualify.

I take the words "racism" and "racist" seriously. They're real. They matter to me.

For you, they're nothing more than a weapon you toss around to feel good about yourself.
.

He has the disease of progressivism, they do whatever career politicians tell them to do and think...

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Except that isn't what happened. The guy who ran GM when it filed for bankruptcy and had to be bailed out by the government got a salary of 12 million. He ran his company so badly it LOST money to the degree that the government had to save it. And then they put saving jobs ahead of paying investors, and they were sooooooooooo mad!

The government didn't have to bail out anybody. GM could have filed for bankruptcy, and let the courts settle their money problems.

Big pay CEO's do make mistakes and sometimes have no control over situations. It's just like when that top paid actress makes a movie that's a flop. She still gets her 15 million for doing the movie. Or that star pitcher in baseball. If he has a crappy year, he still makes his 5 million a year. That's just the way it goes.

The Commies? Only Commie in Congress is Sanders... maybe.

And, yes, the GOPopposing their own ideas because the black guy did it really was the problem.

So now we have the black guy gone, and the Republicans are all looking for a way to do what they should have done in 2009 that will fix the system and still cover them with guys like you who hate ObamaCare because it has the word Obama in it.

Yeah, I know, we have to fix the Democrats F-ups.

If they would have just left healthcare alone, things would be much better today for middle-class working people that Democrats are against.

 

[JoeB131]

People get sentenced based on a number of things--not just the charge. The charge is all you read about.

The charge should be the only thing they should be sentenced on. Not prior bad acts. White people get rehab. Black folks get prison. When Rush Limbaugh gets sent to the same prison as Jamal Wilson, then it will be a not-racist system. Not until.

Wrong, we are loving his immigration stance. But of course, at the moment, he's not doing anything different than DumBama, it's just that your precious MSM has you fooled into believing Trump is doing something different.

Trump's approval rating is down in the 30's, and he won't even talk to the press because they violate his safe space...

Your threshold for what is "racism" is so low, there's really no way for me to know what would qualify.

Actually, it's a pretty easy line. Just about anything Odium posts. Never seen you challenge him, not once.

The government didn't have to bail out anybody. GM could have filed for bankruptcy, and let the courts settle their money problems.

Yeah. That's right. We'd have thrown 2 million people out of work, and lost a functioning auto industry, but as long as the rich people get their money problems sorted out, all is fine.

You see how messed up your thinking is?

Big pay CEO's do make mistakes and sometimes have no control over situations. It's just like when that top paid actress makes a movie that's a flop. She still gets her 15 million for doing the movie. Or that star pitcher in baseball. If he has a crappy year, he still makes his 5 million a year. That's just the way it goes.

More excuses for Rich people. Conservatives are like battered housewives with Stockholm syndrome.

 

[JoeB131]

Yeah, I know, we have to fix the Democrats F-ups.

If they would have just left healthcare alone, things would be much better today for middle-class working people that Democrats are against.

No it wouldn't. The big insurance companies would still be able to deny you coverage for your "Pre-existing" conditions, still raise your rates at three times the rate of inflation. Still find a litle less to cover every year.

Like I said, what turned me against the Republicans was when I busted up my knee in 2007 and got into a year long fight with Cigna into fixing it. I'm still digging myself out from under that mess, which involved Cigna actively trying to get my employer to fire me.

But even big insurance doesn't want to repeal the ACA. Even they knew the system they had was failing.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

This my way or the highway, is crazy, both sides have reasons to be concerned, you can't have every thing you want and neither can I. so we keep fighting each other, the result we keep putting the same people who really are the cause back in office for 40 years. bunch of old self serving old goats.

If someone shouts, "My way or the highway," it means that his way is the low way.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Yeah, I know, we have to fix the Democrats F-ups.

If they would have just left healthcare alone, things would be much better today for middle-class working people that Democrats are against.

No it wouldn't. The big insurance companies would still be able to deny you coverage for your "Pre-existing" conditions, still raise your rates at three times the rate of inflation. Still find a litle less to cover every year.

Like I said, what turned me against the Republicans was when I busted up my knee in 2007 and got into a year long fight with Cigna into fixing it. I'm still digging myself out from under that mess, which involved Cigna actively trying to get my employer to fire me.

But even big insurance doesn't want to repeal the ACA. Even they knew the system they had was failing.

No, it's just some have made a lot of money on it while others went broke. If you sold oranges for a living, and some politician came along and made a law everybody must buy oranges, what's not for you to like that law?

And guess what, insurance rates still had steep increases, coverage was minimized, and some states seen premiums double this year alone under Commie Care, so don't say it was going to happen without it. It happened with it.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The charge should be the only thing they should be sentenced on. Not prior bad acts. White people get rehab. Black folks get prison. When Rush Limbaugh gets sent to the same prison as Jamal Wilson, then it will be a not-racist system. Not until.

Sorry, but if that's the way we sentenced people, we wouldn't' need judges, just a machine that spits out the penalty based on the charge.

If suspect A gets caught with an ounce of coke, runs from the cops, fights with the cops and even hurts one, tells the cops there is no more dope in the car and they find it, and then goes to court dressed up like a thug--shaking his head back and forth, not paying any respect to the judge or court, he will get more time than suspect B who cooperated with the police, dressed nicely for court, and gives the judge the utmost respect.

It's one thing to commit a crime, but another when you show that you have absolutely no respect for our laws. That's why judges have to decipher who is going to continue to commit crimes and who is not. If you apologize to the court and show remorse for what you did, that person is less likely to return to that court in the future.

Trump's approval rating is down in the 30's, and he won't even talk to the press because they violate his safe space...

He said he will talk to anybody that reports honestly, but honesty is not a liberal trait. They can't help themselves but to lie.

Yeah. That's right. We'd have thrown 2 million people out of work, and lost a functioning auto industry, but as long as the rich people get their money problems sorted out, all is fine.

You see how messed up your thinking is?

I think it's yours that's messed up. Filling for bankruptcy does not mean closing down, it means filing for financial protection. Do you think that there were people out there who would only buy a GM car? If people want to buy new cars, they will buy them with or without GM. They will choose a different company to deal with and that company will put more workers on the job to produce those additional vehicles.

 

[JoeB131]

Sorry, but if that's the way we sentenced people, we wouldn't' need judges, just a machine that spits out the penalty based on the charge.

If suspect A gets caught with an ounce of coke, runs from the cops, fights with the cops and even hurts one, tells the cops there is no more dope in the car and they find it, and then goes to court dressed up like a thug--shaking his head back and forth, not paying any respect to the judge or court, he will get more time than suspect B who cooperated with the police, dressed nicely for court, and gives the judge the utmost respect.

Naw, Ray, you aren't racist at all... So if the black kid doesn't dress nicely for court, he should get a harsher sentence.

Here's the reality. Suspect B is more likely to have a lawyer who knows what he is doing, because he's not poor.

Reality- if we had a court system that treated white people the way it treated black people, you'd have people screaming in the fucking streets and you know it.

He said he will talk to anybody that reports honestly, but honesty is not a liberal trait. They can't help themselves but to lie.

Yes, actually playing the crazy shit TRump says is a lie.

I think it's yours that's messed up. Filling for bankruptcy does not mean closing down, it means filing for financial protection. Do you think that there were people out there who would only buy a GM car? If people want to buy new cars, they will buy them with or without GM. They will choose a different company to deal with and that company will put more workers on the job to produce those additional vehicles.

Yeah, but if those cars are made in Germany or Japan, it doesn't help our employment situation, does it?

I mean, I know you sit at home all worried that some rich person won't be able to afford a dressage horse, but some of us are concerned with more practical matters. I don't want to see the car industry go the way of the TV industry, and I'm not sure why you would.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Naw, Ray, you aren't racist at all... So if the black kid doesn't dress nicely for court, he should get a harsher sentence.

Here's the reality. Suspect B is more likely to have a lawyer who knows what he is doing, because he's not poor.

Reality- if we had a court system that treated white people the way it treated black people, you'd have people screaming in the fucking streets and you know it.

No, because most of us conservative whites believe in a tough penalty system. If not for liberal judges, those jails would be filled with guys breaking big rocks into little rocks all day long.

You say I'm racist, but in your quote above, you assume that no blacks can afford a good attorney and that all whites can. If that isn't racist, I don't know what is.

And yes, dressing appropriately and behaving civilized is a requirement in court if you are looking to get any kind of a break. Resect is not given--respect is earned. You as the accused must earn the respect of the judge and court.

If you are caught once with heroin, you made a mistake and may learn from it. If you are caught the third or forth time, you will never learn and so you won't get any breaks with any judge.

Yeah, but if those cars are made in Germany or Japan, it doesn't help our employment situation, does it?

I mean, I know you sit at home all worried that some rich person won't be able to afford a dressage horse, but some of us are concerned with more practical matters. I don't want to see the car industry go the way of the TV industry, and I'm not sure why you would.

It wouldn't have. The TV industry didn't vanish because of financial distress. The electronics industry disappeared because of production overseas.

GM is not the only American auto maker in the US. Plus many foreign cars are made here to cut down on transportation costs.

 

[JoeB131]

No, because most of us conservative whites believe in a tough penalty system. If not for liberal judges, those jails would be filled with guys breaking big rocks into little rocks all day long.

Dumbass, we lock up 2 million people. We have another 7 million on probation or parole. Our justice system is already very good at fucking up lives.

You say I'm racist, but in your quote above, you assume that no blacks can afford a good attorney and that all whites can. If that isn't racist, I don't know what is.

Except the statistics bear that out. If you are black, you usually end up with a public defender, who has too many cases and couldn't get hired by a real law firm. Little Johnny Whitebread gets busted, his mommy and daddy get him a good lawyer and they work out a plea agreement.

And yes, dressing appropriately and behaving civilized is a requirement in court if you are looking to get any kind of a break. Resect is not given--respect is earned. You as the accused must earn the respect of the judge and court.

I'm sorry, where in the constitution (you know, that piece of paper that you guys keep insisting gives you gun rights and bad presidents) does its say, "But only if you dress really nice and speak nicely to the judge". I checked the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th Amendments, and those don't address a dress code anywhere.

If you are caught once with heroin, you made a mistake and may learn from it. If you are caught the third or forth time, you will never learn and so you won't get any breaks with any judge.

guy, we need to stop treating drug addiction like a criminal issue and treat it as a medical issue. or maybe just throw rich drug abusers like Rush Limbaugh and Cindy McCain in the same prisons we throw poor black ones. We do that, imagine how fast they'll reform the system.

It wouldn't have. The TV industry didn't vanish because of financial distress. The electronics industry disappeared because of production overseas.

GM is not the only American auto maker in the US. Plus many foreign cars are made here to cut down on transportation costs.

Again, this isn't a good thing. Let's say we had to fight another war like WWII. Let's say against China, which decides they are rightfully entitled to the rest of Asia. Could we build up the kind of military we had in WWII? probably not. We could barely keep up with two third world countries without bankrupting ourselves.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Dumbass, we lock up 2 million people. We have another 7 million on probation or parole. Our justice system is already very good at fucking up lives.

Our justice system does that or do people do that to themselves? I've never spent any time in jail or prison. Why can't everybody conduct themselves like me which is to simply obey the law and stay out of trouble?

Except the statistics bear that out. If you are black, you usually end up with a public defender, who has too many cases and couldn't get hired by a real law firm. Little Johnny Whitebread gets busted, his mommy and daddy get him a good lawyer and they work out a plea agreement.

Yeah right. Most white people can afford a "dream team" to get them out of trouble. After all, we whites have so much money. If getting representation is such a problem in the black community and not the white, maybe the better solution is for blacks to stay out of trouble so they don't end up with a public defender.

I'm sorry, where in the constitution (you know, that piece of paper that you guys keep insisting gives you gun rights and bad presidents) does its say, "But only if you dress really nice and speak nicely to the judge". I checked the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th Amendments, and those don't address a dress code anywhere.

The Constitution doesn't say you can't give the judge the finger either, but I can tell you it wouldn't be a good idea and he'd probably put you away for as long as he could. If you disrespect our courts, you disrespect our laws and society. When you do that, the judges realize you're going to be a problem in the future because you don't give a F about anything and you have no respect for authority. Sorry, but that happens way more with blacks than whites. Most whites give the judge the utmost respect they deserve.

guy, we need to stop treating drug addiction like a criminal issue and treat it as a medical issue. or maybe just throw rich drug abusers like Rush Limbaugh and Cindy McCain in the same prisons we throw poor black ones. We do that, imagine how fast they'll reform the system.

You have to get a conviction to throw people in jail Joe. Rush was never convicted and there was no evidence against him other than hearsay. It was his word against his maids and her ex-con husband who were blackmailing him.

Again, this isn't a good thing. Let's say we had to fight another war like WWII. Let's say against China, which decides they are rightfully entitled to the rest of Asia. Could we build up the kind of military we had in WWII? probably not. We could barely keep up with two third world countries without bankrupting ourselves.

Fine, but what does that have to do with auto manufacturing?

 

[JoeB131]

Our justice system does that or do people do that to themselves? I've never spent any time in jail or prison. Why can't everybody conduct themselves like me which is to simply obey the law and stay out of trouble?

So you've been lucky. So have I. We've also had the massive good fortune to be born white in this society and get opportunities poor people of color don't get.

Born on second base and thought he hit a double. Unless you are Trump, in which case you are born on third base and thought you invented baseball.

Next dumb, clueless comment.

The Constitution doesn't say you can't give the judge the finger either, but I can tell you it wouldn't be a good idea and he'd probably put you away for as long as he could. If you disrespect our courts, you disrespect our laws and society. When you do that, the judges realize you're going to be a problem in the future because you don't give a F about anything and you have no respect for authority. Sorry, but that happens way more with blacks than whites. Most whites give the judge the utmost respect they deserve.

Again, that's not the judge's job to decide that. The judge's job is to decide if he broke the law in question. And if Jamal and Johnny broke the same law, they should get the same punishment, regardless of the color of their skin or how nice their clothes were when they came to court.

You have to get a conviction to throw people in jail Joe. Rush was never convicted and there was no evidence against him other than hearsay. It was his word against his maids and her ex-con husband who were blackmailing him.

Rush was pled down to a single count of conviction fraud to be dropped if he completed rehab. That's the point. He got a good lawyer and a good deal. Jamal from the hood would have doing hard time for the same offense.

Fine, but what does that have to do with auto manufacturing?

We have to convert all our factories from car production to tank production. Which is EXACTLY what Ford and GM had to do during WWII. You think Toyota and Volkswagen are going to be keen to do that. Particularly if it was a war they didn't agree with?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So you've been lucky. So have I. We've also had the massive good fortune to be born white in this society and get opportunities poor people of color don't get.

Born on second base and thought he hit a double. Unless you are Trump, in which case you are born on third base and thought you invented baseball.

Next dumb, clueless comment.

Obeying the law has nothing to do with luck. It has to do with the recognition of authority and law and realizing it's needed for a civilized society.

Don't give me born on what base nonsense. My father could tell you stories when he grew up that would make you cry. He lived in a house the size of a three car garage with his five other siblings. The house had no electricity or running water. They were on welfare which meant taking your red wagon to the fire station five miles away and they would fill it with fruits and vegetables.

You have people that come here from other countries, work night and day, save every dollar they earn, and end up opening up their own business. Talk to some of these people about what it was like to live where they came from. You couldn't imagine it.

Yet my father, all his siblings, all these foreigners that own 7-11's and various businesses never got in trouble with the law. They were not born on first base. They didn't even leave home plate yet. You can't tell me one opportunity I had in life that a black didn't.

Again, that's not the judge's job to decide that. The judge's job is to decide if he broke the law in question. And if Jamal and Johnny broke the same law, they should get the same punishment, regardless of the color of their skin or how nice their clothes were when they came to court.

Yes, it is a judges position to decide that. That's what judges are for. They make the decision based on all evidence and facts if the offender deserves light punishment, heavy punishment, or no punishment at all. You can't give a violent black repeat drug offender the same punishment as you do a white offender that never even had an outstanding traffic ticket in their life. One may have made a stupid mistake and the other a career law breaker.

We have to convert all our factories from car production to tank production. Which is EXACTLY what Ford and GM had to do during WWII. You think Toyota and Volkswagen are going to be keen to do that. Particularly if it was a war they didn't agree with?

Well, if Toyota does start making tanks, at least they won't break down all the time.

 

[JoeB131]

Yet my father, all his siblings, all these foreigners that own 7-11's and various businesses never got in trouble with the law. They were not born on first base. They didn't even leave home plate yet. You can't tell me one opportunity I had in life that a black didn't.

Your whiny sob story aside, was your dad ever a slave? Was there ever a law that required him to sit at the back of a bus and drink from a crappy water fountain? The whole notion that you can ignore 400 years of racism because, hey, we behaved slightly better (not much) in the last forty is laughable on its face.

Yes, it is a judges position to decide that. That's what judges are for. They make the decision based on all evidence and facts if the offender deserves light punishment, heavy punishment, or no punishment at all. You can't give a violent black repeat drug offender the same punishment as you do a white offender that never even had an outstanding traffic ticket in their life. One may have made a stupid mistake and the other a career law breaker.

I thought we were talking about how people were dressed and their attitude. Why do you keep moving the goal posts? If Jamal and Johnny commited the exact same crime they should get the exact same punishment. Period. Otherwise, the system is racist.

If anything, Johnny should get a worse punishment because he had every opporutnity in this society by being white and he still managed to fuck it up.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Your whiny sob story aside, was your dad ever a slave? Was there ever a law that required him to sit at the back of a bus and drink from a crappy water fountain? The whole notion that you can ignore 400 years of racism because, hey, we behaved slightly better (not much) in the last forty is laughable on its face.

No, my father was never a slave. Slavery ended in 1865. He's not quite that old.

The point however (which flew over your head) is that crime is not because of poverty. A lot of people stay in or escape poverty without being involved in any kind of crime. Show me any black person today that grew up worse than my father and his siblings. They didn't even have a bathroom. Every fall they had to dig a new hole to move the outhouse to, and going outside in the winter up north is no picnic in the middle of the night. The damn thing didn't even have a roof on it.

I thought we were talking about how people were dressed and their attitude. Why do you keep moving the goal posts? If Jamal and Johnny commited the exact same crime they should get the exact same punishment. Period. Otherwise, the system is racist.

If anything, Johnny should get a worse punishment because he had every opporutnity in this society by being white and he still managed to fuck it up.

No, a judge does what he or she can to contain crime. You lock up career criminals longer than one-time offenders because one-time offenders usually learn from their mistakes and return to society fully rehabilitated. Prison space is limited and judges try to use that space for the worst of the worst.

As I said repeatedly, judges use a variety of things when considering a sentence. Yes, attitude and dress are two of those aspects. I had to go to court years ago as a witness to an accident. The black guy who was at fault gave the officer a real hard time. He started acting so violent I thought the officer was going to have to call for backup.

Before the case was heard, the judge called in me, another witness, and the officer to the judges chamber to tell him what took place. He was not pleased by what we told him about the defendant. In court, he sat there with a dirty look on his face. When the officer testified, the black guy was shaking his head back and forth, putting his arms up and slamming them down. The judge had to tell him to behave himself during the hearing.

Do you think that judge gave him any consideration when he passed judgement on him? It had nothing to do with his race.