Zone1 Trans Supporters: If you can be Trans-gender, can people also be Trans-racial or Trans-age?

[hjmick]

It's an honest question, because it follows the exact same logic, which is very simple:

"If I feel it, it is, and should be respected by all, or else you're a bigot"

That's basically the mantra, I don't think any leftist/woke LGBTQ activist could deny it.

So, if you can "feel" a different sex/gender, can you "feel" a different race? Can a white girl "feel" like she's an oppressed minority black woman? Can a 65 yr old man "feel" like he's 25 and demand to be called as such?

And if you say no, aren't you a bigot for denying their supposed right to feel how they believe they are?

Rachel Dolezal says, "Yes!"

 

[Harpy Eagle]

I'm a white male in my 50's, I identify as 18, gender fluid with a hint of black lesbian traits.

I am happy that you have found the true you!

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

It's an honest question, because it follows the exact same logic, which is very simple:

"If I feel it, it is, and should be respected by all, or else you're a bigot"

That's basically the mantra, I don't think any leftist/woke LGBTQ activist could deny it.

So, if you can "feel" a different sex/gender, can you "feel" a different race? Can a white girl "feel" like she's an oppressed minority black woman? Can a 65 yr old man "feel" like he's 25 and demand to be called as such?

And if you say no, aren't you a bigot for denying their supposed right to feel how they believe they are?

I always tell people I'm 25. They always laugh, but it's how I feel

 

[JoeB131]

It's an honest question, because it follows the exact same logic, which is very simple:

"If I feel it, it is, and should be respected by all, or else you're a bigot"

That's basically the mantra, I don't think any leftist/woke LGBTQ activist could deny it.

So, if you can "feel" a different sex/gender, can you "feel" a different race? Can a white girl "feel" like she's an oppressed minority black woman? Can a 65 yr old man "feel" like he's 25 and demand to be called as such?

And if you say no, aren't you a bigot for denying their supposed right to feel how they believe they are?

You might have a point there... but not the one you think.

Let's take "Trans-Age". How many BILLIONS of dollars are spent every year on trying to look younger? I'm a little guilty of this, because I dye my hair so I don't look like a man in my 60's. But we are talking face lifts, boob jobs, tummy tucks, etc, etc. so that older people can look younger than they are. How many people lie about their age, at least casually.
As for "Trans-race"... um, okay. You know what's all the rage in Asia right now? Eyelid operations to make people look less Asian. No one really questions it.

So clearly, those things aren't a big deal to you, but transgenderism is.

Seems like it's more about your fears than anything else.

 

[Dadoalex]

They learned it from the Anti-fa twits during the summer of Floyd I guess.

Peaceful protests made violent by law enforcement extremists is not a boycott.
Your "but they" defense for your support of terrorism is weak.

 

[Hang on Sloopy]

what if you can lick your own butt?....can you be a trans-dog?

 

[Mr. Friscus]

1. It's not an honest question because in the end you imply anyone who disagrees is a bigot.

No, not me. That’s you.. you do that. I think people can choose not to believe an ideology and not be considered a bigot. You do.

2. The answer to your question is no. Your biological sense of self, yours, mine a trans person's, everyone's, is determined by your physiology. That physiology produces stimuli in the shape of thoughts and feelings including a sense of self. You recognize yourself as separate from me and other people and separate from your environment. In this way your feelings are both objective and subjective. You have feelings. That's an objective fact. What you feel however is subjective to your own personal physiology. I can't feel what you feel, I can only feel what I feel. The question then is is there any evidence that physiology can account for these different feelings.

Feelings don’t dictate reality. It doesn’t discount the feelings, but you can’t demand others cater to your feelings, especially if your feelings are drastically radical from established social norms. That’s modern narcissism and entitlement

3. Can physiology account for objectively feeling as if you're in the wrong kind of body? I think so. There seems to be a lot of evidence indicating that you can. We have MRIs that show the brain physiology shifted towards the gender trans people identify as and we know that hormones and disorders of sex development can lead to mixed physiology of sexual organs in the intersexed so I see no reason to think the same can't occur in the development of the brain.

Psychologically there’s no way to know if you’re “in the wrong body” because nobody knows what it’s like to feel like the opposite sex/gender. If you just feel off, that’s gender dysphoria, an unfortunate mental condition that is very harmful to a persons psyche.

But if you only have one frame of reference, it’s impossible to compare it to the other, so you can’t know, and are likely just desperately grasping for an irrational solution to escape your dysphoria.

3. Can physiology account for someone being trans race. No. Race isn't an inherent property. It's a social construct. There is no corresponding physiology to allow you to feel like a certain race.

Huh? Race is genetic, the amount to melanin in your skin and common features. It is 100% an inherent property.

4. Can you be trans age? Again no. Age is simply an objective measurement for how many times your physical body has orbited the sun. You can be 40 and feel old or 90 and feel young and spry but these aren't measurements of how many times your body has revolved around the Sun.

Age is objectively known, just as sex is. If you feel differently than either, you can do that, but not only are you incorrect, but nobody else is required to participate.

 

[Curried Goats]

No, not me. That’s you.. you do that. I think people can choose not to believe an ideology and not be considered a bigot. You do.

Why do you people cry so much? I don't cry that you call it an ideology even though the people who inform me about trans identities and gender dysphoria are Doctors and Biologists. I just point and laugh. I think you're a Bingo. Deal with it. If you don't want me to construct better arguments.

Feelings don’t dictate reality. It doesn’t discount the feelings, but you can’t demand others cater to your feelings, especially if your feelings are drastically radical from established social norms. That’s modern narcissism and entitlement

The argument that feelings don't dictate reality makes perfect sense when the reality you are referring to is the outside world. In this instance we are talking about internal, individual mental states who's reality is determined by individual thoughts and feelings. I think therefore I am as Descartes would say. Are you your sex organs? The thing with you folks who are in a sense arguing personality stems from your genitals or chromosomes miss the fact that people with mixed or inoperable sex organs can lead a decent portion of their lives without this genetic information and still have a definitive sense of self. A grandfather found out the day he was born with a womb, you can be born with a vagina, feel like a woman all your life and not know until a routine medical exam reveals one day that you have XY chromosomes. Personal thoughts and feelings are the inherent stuff personality is born from.

As for established social norms well those are obviously just social constructs, they aren't objective.

Psychologically there’s no way to know if you’re “in the wrong body” because nobody knows what it’s like to feel like the opposite sex/gender. If you just feel off, that’s gender dysphoria, an unfortunate mental condition that is very harmful to a persons psyche.

How do you know psychologically there's no way to know you're in the wrong body? Where is your evidence? This is supposed to be an objective argument.

By the way not all trans people will experience gender dysphoria and bigotry and lack of support are just as, if not more harmful to their psyches. At least if you ask the experts.

What is Gender Dysphoria?

But if you only have one frame of reference, it’s impossible to compare it to the other, so you can’t know, and are likely just desperately grasping for an irrational solution to escape your dysphoria.

This is based on a premise you still have not given any objective reason for believing in.

Huh? Race is genetic, the amount to melanin in your skin and common features. It is 100% an inherent property.

How much melanin your skin produces is genetic. Dividing mankind by race based on that one characteristic is subjective and arbitrary. Genetic studies show there is more genetic variation within population groups than between those populations and other ones.

Race

Age is objectively known, just as sex is. If you feel differently than either, you can do that, but not only are you incorrect, but nobody else is required to participate.

As I said, age is simply the number of times you've revolved around the Sun. That's easy enough to figure out.

I posit to you however that the biological category of sex is just as subjective as the category of race. If you don't believe me then produce what you think is an objective description of sex differences and then let's see if I can't poke objective holes in it.

 

[Seymour Flops]

They do not feel a different sex, just a different gender.

There is a difference between gender and sex.

That definition of "gender" is ad hoc, and was not used until very recently. "Gender" has always been used interchangeably with "sex" as in the "male sex" and the "female sex." Originally, it applied to languages like Spanish and German that gender their nouns.

People said "gender" instead of "sex" because children and childish adults would giggle if they said "sex."

The argument that a person can be a biological male, but claim female as their gender is made specifically for the purpose of forcing people to accept males into female spaces, and very rarely, vice-versa. As so often, the left manipulates the language in order to slow down debate.

It works, because here I am talking about "gender" vs. "sex," instead of how obviously wrong it is to subject young girls to males in their locker rooms, bathrooms, and playing fields. It's wrong for people of the male sex, and just as wrong for people of the masculine gender. Gender and sex are one and the same. You cannot be male sex and feminine gender, that is not possible in reality.

The idea that a person is male sex, but sees himself as a girl or woman is about delusions, not about definitions.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Head coach at a junior high walks into the girls locker room where four softball players are showering after practice. He calls two of them by name and says "if you don't get your grades up by friday, you will not be able to practice or play next week. What is your plan to get you a grades up?"

The girls scream, cover up, quickly wipe soap off and grab towels. One of them calls out for the female softball coach and says "there's a man watching us."

He says "I identify as a woman now. Stop misgendering me and answer my question about your grades while you finish your shower."

Every Democrat on this board would be okay with that, correct? If not, explain your reasoning. What besides identifying as a woman would this biological male need to do to be entitled to access the girls locker room?

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Head coach at a junior high walks into the girls locker room where four softball players are showering after practice. He calls two of them by name and says "if you don't get your grades up by friday, you will not be able to practice or play next week. What is your plan to get you a grades up?"

The girls scream, cover up, quickly wipe soap off and grab towels. One of them calls out for the female softball coach and says "there's a man watching us."

He says "I identify as a woman now. Stop misgendering me and answer my question about your grades while you finish your shower."

Every Democrat on this board would be okay with that, correct? If not, explain your reasoning. What besides identifying as a woman would this biological male need to do to be entitled to access the girls locker room?

I would not be ok with it, but since I am a Dem I do not need to explain anything!

Sweet

 

[Seymour Flops]

I would not be ok with it, but since I am a Dem I do not need to explain anything!

Sweet

I'm glad that you finally admit you are a Dem. It's a step in the right direction.

 

[HeyNorm]

Gender as applied to people has always been a made up construct.

I agree they are, and anyone that allows them to equate sex and gender is helping their cause.

If we would limit sports and bathroom and the like to sex and not gender most of these problems are solved.

No, your attempt to separate the two is idiocy. She is always a biological female. He is always a biological male.

 

[HeyNorm]

I'm glad that you finally admit you are a Dem. It's a step in the right direction.

He’ll identify as something else when it’s convenient.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

I'm glad that you finally admit you are a Dem. It's a step in the right direction.

Whoops, left out a word!

 

[JoeB131]

Head coach at a junior high walks into the girls locker room where four softball players are showering after practice. He calls two of them by name and says "if you don't get your grades up by friday, you will not be able to practice or play next week. What is your plan to get you a grades up?"

The girls scream, cover up, quickly wipe soap off and grab towels. One of them calls out for the female softball coach and says "there's a man watching us."

He says "I identify as a woman now. Stop misgendering me and answer my question about your grades while you finish your shower."

Every Democrat on this board would be okay with that, correct? If not, explain your reasoning. What besides identifying as a woman would this biological male need to do to be entitled to access the girls locker room?

Wow, you come up with fanciful scenarios.

If the coach had been living a trans-lifestyle for years, you might have a point.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Wow, you come up with fanciful scenarios.

If the coach had been living a trans-lifestyle for years, you might have a point.

What do you mean? How long would the coach be required to "live a trans-lifestyle" before being allowed in the girls locker room? I thought a "woman" is "a person who identifies as a woman." Where is the time requirement you speak of written?

"Leah" Thomas did not live any trans-lifestyle for years before entering the girls locker room and the women's swimming team. He had lived the mediocr male swimmer-lifestyle. I don't know that he lives a trans-lifestyle now. I've never seen him in a dress or high heels. Just a bulgey version of a womans swimsuit.

 

[Flash]

No, they being violent and threatening violence.

You mean like the Negros that spent six months burning, looting, murdering and destroying in over 200 American cities?

 

[Dadoalex]

You mean like the Negros that spent six months burning, looting, murdering and destroying in over 200 American cities?

No, those peaceful protests were not boycotts.
Obviously your NEWSMAX filter is on.

 

[JoeB131]

"Leah" Thomas did not live any trans-lifestyle for years before entering the girls locker room and the women's swimming team. He had lived the mediocr male swimmer-lifestyle. I don't know that he lives a trans-lifestyle now. I've never seen him in a dress or high heels. Just a bulgey version of a womans swimsuit.

Not sure why you'd be looking there exactly.

Thomas started questioning her identity in High School, before she even enrolled in college.

She was required to stay on the Men's team for a year after she announced her transition.

Lia Thomas - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

She began transitioning using hormone replacement therapy in May 2019, and came out as a trans woman during her junior year to her coaches, friends, and the women's and men's swim teams at the University of Pennsylvania.[2][5] She was required to swim for the men's team in the 2019–2020 academic year as a junior while undergoing hormone therapy and then swam on the women's team in 2021–2022 after taking a year off school to maintain her eligibility to compete while competitive swimming was canceled due to the COVID-19 pandemic.[4][5][11] Thomas has followed all of the gender-related policies to be eligible to compete as a woman in NCAA swimming.[12][13][2]

Thomas lost muscle mass and strength through testosterone suppression and hormone replacement therapy. Her time for the 500 freestyle is over 15 seconds slower than her personal bests before medically transitioning.[14][15] Thomas's event progression peaked in 2019 for distance swimming, with a drop in times during the 2021–22 season. Her event progression for sprint swimming reflected a dip at the start of 2021–22 season before returning to near-lifetime bests in the 100 free and a lifetime personal best in the 50 free in 2021.[16]

In the 2018–2019 season she was, when competing in the men's team, ranked 554th in the 200 freestyle, 65th in the 500 freestyle, and 32nd in the 1650 freestyle. In the 2021–2022 season, those ranks are now, when competing in the women's team, fifth in the 200 freestyle, first in the 500 freestyle, and eighth in the 1650 freestyle.[17][18] According to an archived page of the swimming data website Swimcloud, Thomas was ranked 89th among male college swimmers for that season.[19]