Torture Works

For the slow and liberal.

The first sentence in the blog.

Malcolm W. Nance is a counter-terrorism and terrorism intelligence consultant for the U.S. government’s Special Operations, Homeland Security and Intelligence agencies
 
Here you go, cmike. This will help immensely. "You don't post accurately, and you are almost unintelligible in argument." Here, this will help: Purdue OWL
 
Here you go, cmike. This will help immensely. "You don't post accurately, and you are almost unintelligible in argument." Here, this will help: Purdue OWL

Really? What part of the DOJ memo and my summary of them were not not capable of understanding? :cuckoo:
 
While I appluad your consistency,.... I dissagree with your premise that progressives don't like Obama,... as they are directly responsible for his being in office. Are you telling me that, Joel Rogers, Andy Stearn, Van Jones, Frank Lloyd, George Soros, SEIU, AFL CIO, are not proggresives??

Many progressives were duped into believing Obama would represent them because he both lied about his positions on the campaign trail (what politician doesn't? but still...) or remained intentionally vague enough that they could believe what they liked. It's their fault too to a large degree, many people projected onto Obama whatever they wanted out of a politician regardless of whether he embodied it or not.
We won...you LOST!!!

Quit'cher whining & get-over-it.​

By "we" who do you mean? If you think I'm a Republican or a Conservative, you're not paying attention.

Not everyone who criticizes Obama does so because they're a right-wing idiot, some of us wish he was actually a progressive who didn't lie so much and acted as a president the way he promised to as a candidate.

And I don't see how differentiating between Progressivism and Democratic corporatism to explain the distinction to someone who was lumping a bunch of Democratic special interests and businessmen in with progressives is "whining."


The liberal method is that when the facts don't mesh with their agenda, they change them so that they
Says the guy who claimed:



Can you say "pot calling the kettle black"? Or is "hypocrite" simpler?
exactly right. First paragraph. He is paid by Obama.

Hahaha. What a dishonest piece of work you are.

So then by your definition every Marine "works for the Obama administration." Every expert on dams consulted by the Army Corp of Engineers "works for the Obama administration." Every private-military contractor in Iraq "works for the Obama administration," since "Obama" (read: the U.S. government) pays their paycheck.

Well, your definition is wrong. The "Obama Administration" is the the Presidential Administration of Barack Obama, that's what those words mean. A Presidential Administration is comprised of the Executive, the Cabinet, and White House Offices. The military, special operations, Homeland Security, their employees and consultants are none of them a part of the "Obama Administration."

Moreover, you tried to avoid this one but: You called Malcolm Nance a politician. You said:

He is a politician. Figures. He works for the Obama administration.

As previously documented thoroughly now, he's not a politician at all. You're a liar. And he doesn't work for the Obama administration either. You've tried to dodge addressing the fact that you called him a politician and he's not a politician and the link you provided proves he's not a politician. You lied.

It's quite clear you were trying to draw a political connection between Nance and Obama to discredit Nance's expertise as simply toeing some party line or propagandizing for the Administration. But he has no connection to the Administration or Obama and is not a politician or spokesperson or employee of the Administration. For your statement to be true, Nance would have to be like a Van Jones or Rahm Emanuel, someone in any way connected to the Administration who is also a politician. He is neither. He's a student at Martyr Zarqawi Hall, a veteran of the military and intelligence community, a former Master SERE Instructor, and an expert consultant to intelligence and security agencies.

He's not a politician (respond to that lie) and he doesn't work for the Obama Administration, he only "works for Obama" to the extent that every single person who receives a paycheck from the Federal government from janitor of Congressional offices to Army recruiter to Republican Senator to profiling consultant to an FBI task force "works for Obama," which is they don't, they work for the government and that's not the same thing. And he doesn't even work for the government, he works for himself and consults with intelligence agencies, Homeland Security, and the military on intelligence acquisition.

You're being intentionally dishonest to intentionally paint an inaccurate picture and beyond that, you were 100% lying about him being a politician and were dumb enough to provide the evidence that demonstrated you were lying.

Name one thing I haven't posted accurately from the DOJ detailed memo?

You've moved goal posts many times because you've lied many times. But this is easy: you claimed:

This is the CIA criteria for waterboarding, which was done only 3 times.

The memo reveals it was done 266 times on two of the 3 detainees it identifies as being waterboarded. That's inaccurate.

You also haven't read the whole memo, or if you have you intentionally select only the pieces that seemingly bolster your claim (while directly contradicting previous government reports and announcements that discredit it) and not all the proof that what was done is legally defined as torture and therefore criminal. You would also know that it is not reporting things as fact or as a firsthand account or as the DOJ's official conclusions, the language of the memo in nearly all of what it says is "You have informed us..." and there's a key difference there and that's intentionally careful language. It's not a report of what the DOJ found after watching videotapes of the interrogations or anything else, it's a report on what some CIA guys who committed crimes told the Justice Department about how important it was they committed those crimes. It's a cover-your-ass document and that's pretty clear. That you choose to believe it and take those agents word as the Bible truth but totally dismiss or ignore the word of SERE instructors and the single most successful interrogator in the entire War on Terror who brought down the highest-value target of the whole decade clearly shows your agenda.

And we've many times backed up the fact that the Library Tower plot was already thwarted using official government documents released to the public, just like the DOJ memo, you just dismiss them because you want to justify torture, you don't care whether it really worked or not.

It's also quite telling that you repeatedly applaud the CIA Agents who waterboarded detainees which you claimed led to the disrupting of an already thwarted plot, but you insult as a "douchebag" the interrogator responsible for taking down the highest value target in the entire War on Terror and saving thousands of lives, allowing for the Sunni Awakening that turned the tide in the war because he didn't torture. What that proves is that you could give a shit, disrespect even, the ability to extract critical and life-saving information and have no regard or the hard-working men who do that, you simply like torture for torture's sake and think those who practice it, not who save lives, are heroes.
 
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Why the fuck does anyone care if the terrorist planners were WB or not? They should be WB 100x a day until they die. They actually bragged about upcoming attacks, until they were waterboarded. Its a necessary tool to show terrorists we are not all whiny chumps.
 
The torture debate thing is so meh.....................

It ended about a year ago............and funny, I had read damn near 1,000 posts from the k00ks whop promised for 4 years that Bush and Cheney would get impeached. In fact, a number of k00ks on this forum personally gauanteed it..........which of course was beyond laughable and which I used as an opportunity to publically humiliate the sh!t out of the k00ks...................

I kinda miss those days actually............a few short weeks in March of 2009 changed that.............

Remember???


nancy-pelosi.jpg



cheneyfishy460.jpg



Dickcheney.jpg
 
Wow, I did not know that Bush could be impeached for running the war. Learn something every day.
 
Wow, I did not know that Bush could be impeached for running the war. Learn something every day.


lol...........I know..........yet Dennis Kucinich, the k00kiest member of congress, ran out an impeachment bill every 3rd month. Each would hang around for a week or two.........there would be about 1/2 a million signatures in support and all the k00ks got all giddy every time. Problem was, they didnt get a single solitary additional endorsement and the bill died every time.............couldnt even get a yawn from anybody in the chamber by 2008!!! Yet every time, k00ks like Rightwinger, VaYank, Wry Catcher and Jillian went beyond giddy:lol::lol:.................it was always hysterical back in those days. And to think, how hard is Dick Cheney laughing now??:rofl:
 
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Hahaha. What a dishonest piece of work you are.

So then by your definition every Marine "works for the Obama administration." Every expert on dams consulted by the Army Corp of Engineers "works for the Obama administration." Every private-military contractor in Iraq "works for the Obama administration," since "Obama" (read: the U.S. government) pays their paycheck.

Really what marine is hired as a consultant by the Obama Administration? It's really very simply, this so called "expert" is paid by the Obama Administration. If this so called "expert" tells something that Obama doesn't want to hear regarding terrorism, it's bye bye consultant.

This guy had nothing to do with the CIA interrogations, therefore, his opinion is irrelevant.



Well, your definition is wrong. The "Obama Administration" is the the Presidential Administration of Barack Obama, that's what those words mean. A Presidential Administration is comprised of the Executive, the Cabinet, and White House Offices. The military, special operations, Homeland Security, their employees and consultants are none of them a part of the "Obama Administration."

Moreover, you tried to avoid this one but: You called Malcolm Nance a politician. You said:

As previously documented thoroughly now, he's not a politician at all. You're a liar. And he doesn't work for the Obama administration either. You've tried to dodge addressing the fact that you called him a politician and he's not a politician and the link you provided proves he's not a politician. You lied.

If he is is being paid by the Obama Adminstration to be a consultant in this specific field, he is working for the Obama Administration.

Here is a test. If he tells the Obama what he doesn't want to hear can his consultation services be terminated? The answer is yes. Therefore, he is working for the Obama administration.

The person who is :eusa_liar: is you by claiming that he is independent.

The Obama "consultant" really isn't worth talking about more for me. He wasn't there, and that is what is relevant



You're being intentionally dishonest to intentionally paint an inaccurate picture and beyond that, you were 100% lying about him being a politician and were dumb enough to provide the evidence that demonstrated you were lying.

:blahblah:



You've moved goal posts many times because you've lied many times. But this is easy: you claimed:

This is the CIA criteria for waterboarding, which was done only 3 times.

The memo reveals it was done 266 times on two of the 3 detainees it identifies as being waterboarded. That's inaccurate.

:rofl::rofl: That's a good one. You said you don't believe the DOJ memo. Therefore, how do you know how many times he was waterboarded? You can't credibly cherry pick it. What proof do you have how many times they were waterboarded?:lol:

What a predicament, huh? You try to disprove what I said with a memo that you said that you don't believe in, in the first place.

In any case I corrected that months ago. I meant it was done to 3 terrorists. I made an error saying it was done 3 times, I meant only on 3 people and I corrected that a long time ago..

However, what do you care?You said you don't believe the memo anyway. :eusa_liar::lol:



You also haven't read the whole memo, or if you have you intentionally select only the pieces that seemingly bolster your claim (while directly contradicting previous government reports and announcements that discredit it) and not all the proof that what was done is legally defined as torture and therefore criminal. You would also know that it is not reporting things as fact or as a firsthand account or as the DOJ's official conclusions, the language of the memo in nearly all of what it says is "You have informed us..." and there's a key difference there and that's intentionally careful language. It's not a report of what the DOJ found after watching videotapes of the interrogations or anything else, it's a report on what some CIA guys who committed crimes told the Justice Department about how important it was they committed those crimes.

I said all along it's a DOJ/CIA memo. It was between the DOJ and the CIA. The CIA were the ones who actually did the interrogations, and therefore, the ones who actually knew what was going on, rather than your Obama paid "consultants" who had zero to do with it.

And they didn't commit any crimes other than in the deranged mind's of liberals :cuckoo:

It's a cover-your-ass document and that's pretty clear. That you choose to believe it and take those agents word as the Bible truth but totally dismiss or ignore the word of SERE instructors and the single most successful interrogator in the entire War on Terror who brought down the highest-value target of the whole decade clearly shows your agenda.

The DOJ memo was released by Obama, not Bush. If it was for a PR purpose it would have been released by Pres. Bush.

I going to make this in big font so perhaps even you will get it, your Obama paid consultant wasn't there and what he says is only based on ignorance..

The CIA people were the ones who performed the interrogations, and were the only ones who can give a credible account of what happened.


And we've many times backed up the fact that the Library Tower plot was already thwarted using official government documents released to the public, just like the DOJ memo, you just dismiss them because you want to justify torture, you don't care whether it really worked or not.

I already dealt with this nonsense so I will just repost it.

Because Pres. Bush said that a plot to take out the Liberty Tower was foiled has little to do with the memo.

1) Which LA building that was the target was not mentioned in the memo

2) Assuming it was the same building doesn't mean that just because one plot was foiled, another one didn't take it's place.

The WTC was attacked twice, once in 1993, and again in 2001. The same target can be planned to be attacked more than once.

3) There were multiple cells. Because one was stopped, doesn't mean another cell didn't get the same plan to attack the same building.

According to the Department Of Justice memo.

“You have informed us that information obtained from KSM also led to the capture of Riduan bin Isomuddin, better known as Hambali, and the discover of the Guraba Cell, a 17-member Jemaah Islamiyah cell tasked with executing the ‘Second Wave,’” reads the memo. “More specifically, we understand that KSM admitted that he had [redaction] large sum of money to an al Qaeda associate [redaction] … Khan subsequently identified the associate (Zubair), who was then captured. Zubair, in turn, provided information that led to the arrest of Hambali. The information acquired from these captures allowed CIA interrogators to pose more specific questions to KSM, which led the CIA to Hambali’s brother, al Hadi. Using information obtained from multiple sources, al-Hadi was captured, and he subsequently identified the Garuba cell. With the aid of this additional information, interrogations of Hambali confirmed much of what was learned from KSM.”

You still have not provided one iota of documenation that contradicts the detailed facts from the DOJ memo.

  1. It was legal
  2. It was done after all other measures failed
  3. It was done with medical personnel supervising to make sure there wasn't severe mental or physical trauma
  4. It was done only on 3 arch terrorists
  5. Those terrorists previously taunted interrogators
  6. It led to the thwarting of two major terrorist attacks within America
  7. Over half the intelligence on Al Qaida came from these waterboardings
  8. Also the "waterboarding" was a lot milder than done to some CIA personnel as part of their training

Once again you have zero documentation disproving any of the above.
 
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Let you in on a secret. Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld are not immune from war crimes charges. Why do you think none of the fly to Europe?
 
I still wait for any documenation among the radical left to disprove anything that was in the DOJ memo?

I await...
 

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