Torture Works

Irrelevant he had nothing to do with these interrogation.

Your information comes from left wing blogs which makes them worse than worthless.

If FreeRepublic or Red State interviews someone and provides a transcript of the interview, it's highly, highly unlikely that's not what the person said.

The fact that a so-called "left wing blog" (Harpers, Small Wars Journal are neither of them "left wing blogs") publishes something only automatically discredits it so someone intentionally maintaining willful ignorance.

Healthy skepticism of a source you believe to be biased is smart, discounting entirely anything they publish from a weather report to an interview as "worthless" is absolutely idiotic and moreover a cheap attempt to avoid addressing all of the many facts and expert opinions that disprove your argument.

By the way, the Bush Admin claimed in 2002 the Library tower ("Liberty Tower" [sic]) plot was thwarted. This was before KSM was even captured. This was reported in mainstream and right wing media as well as being part of the public record. How do you explain away that one?

Are any of you "left loons" going to raise hell about the Bamster's new Supreme Court Appointee's stance on detaining people SUSPECTED of financing al queda indefinatly?? Again, the hipocrasy is stunning.....

Yes, I have. I've repeatedly railed against her here and elsewhere for that and explained that position, along with her general support for expansions of executive authority at the expense of civil rights and her lack of a record on almost anything else, as the primary reason she's a terrible choice for the S.C.

As have many, many, many others on the left. Most genuine progressives are unhappy with or opposed to his choice. Hell, most genuine progressives are unhappy with or opposed to Obama generally.

There's no hypocrisy among the left on that issue, only among loyal partisan Democrats, who like anyone loyal to a group or person rather than principle is necessarily a hypocrite.
While I appluad your consistency,.... I dissagree with your premise that progressives don't like Obama,... as they are directly responsible for his being in office. Are you telling me that, Joel Rogers, Andy Stearn, Van Jones, Frank Lloyd, George Soros, SEIU, AFL CIO, are not proggresives??

Bad analysis, Eccgmike. The disaffected centrists formerly supporting the GOP put Obama in office, and they are going to keep him there because the far right won't stop doing the stuff that got them thrown out -- continually lying to the American people.
 
Let's see. Palin is not qualified even to be governor; her quitting the office was right for her fellow Alaskans. On the other hand, Kagan is highly qualified based on her training, her job experience, and her ability. You just got your feathers plucked again.

You're living in the 2008 era, not the 2010 and the 2012 age. I'm not a Palin fan, but even she could win in 2012. Its a voter revolt, its coming...soon....if you don't believe me...so what?

And since you obviously don't understand what's going on, who cares?
 
cmike, those kind of statements have the normal folks laughing at you. Keep it up Mr. :cuckoo:
 
Those statements come from actual credible documenation, your statements come out of utter nonsense.

Actually the statements from you lefties comes from...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzlG28B-R8Y]YouTube - Twilight Zone intro.[/ame]
 
That you believe all that, cmike, reveals just how badly the Dems are going to pound the conservatives this fall.
 
Still in your alternate resource.

The liberal method is that when the facts don't mesh with their agenda, they change them so that they do.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzlG28B-R8Y]YouTube - Twilight Zone intro.[/ame]
 
If FreeRepublic or Red State interviews someone and provides a transcript of the interview, it's highly, highly unlikely that's not what the person said.

The fact that a so-called "left wing blog" (Harpers, Small Wars Journal are neither of them "left wing blogs") publishes something only automatically discredits it so someone intentionally maintaining willful ignorance.

Healthy skepticism of a source you believe to be biased is smart, discounting entirely anything they publish from a weather report to an interview as "worthless" is absolutely idiotic and moreover a cheap attempt to avoid addressing all of the many facts and expert opinions that disprove your argument.

By the way, the Bush Admin claimed in 2002 the Library tower ("Liberty Tower" [sic]) plot was thwarted. This was before KSM was even captured. This was reported in mainstream and right wing media as well as being part of the public record. How do you explain away that one?



Yes, I have. I've repeatedly railed against her here and elsewhere for that and explained that position, along with her general support for expansions of executive authority at the expense of civil rights and her lack of a record on almost anything else, as the primary reason she's a terrible choice for the S.C.

As have many, many, many others on the left. Most genuine progressives are unhappy with or opposed to his choice. Hell, most genuine progressives are unhappy with or opposed to Obama generally.

There's no hypocrisy among the left on that issue, only among loyal partisan Democrats, who like anyone loyal to a group or person rather than principle is necessarily a hypocrite.
While I appluad your consistency,.... I dissagree with your premise that progressives don't like Obama,... as they are directly responsible for his being in office. Are you telling me that, Joel Rogers, Andy Stearn, Van Jones, Frank Lloyd, George Soros, SEIU, AFL CIO, are not proggresives??

Bad analysis, Eccgmike. The disaffected centrists formerly supporting the GOP put Obama in office, and they are going to keep him there because the far right won't stop doing the stuff that got them thrown out -- continually lying to the American people.
Do your homework Jakey,...... Obama is surrounded by progressives, not that the GOP doesn't have it's share, but maybe u should check out the "Apollo Alliance" and it's affiliates before criticizing my analogy.
 
The best reason to waterboard KSM and the others terrorist planners is to download intel and to punish them for killing 3,000 innocents, including 3 & 4 year olds in the planes. If ever anyone deserved to be waterboarded 186x a day until they die its those MFs.

I'm confused. Why would it kill them? I thought water-boarding was completely safe and painless.
 
The best reason to waterboard KSM and the others terrorist planners is to download intel and to punish them for killing 3,000 innocents, including 3 & 4 year olds in the planes. If ever anyone deserved to be waterboarded 186x a day until they die its those MFs.

I'm confused. Why would it kill them? I thought water-boarding was completely safe and painless.
Oh yeah, it is,... totally!! you should try it ...
 
While I appluad your consistency,.... I dissagree with your premise that progressives don't like Obama,... as they are directly responsible for his being in office. Are you telling me that, Joel Rogers, Andy Stearn, Van Jones, Frank Lloyd, George Soros, SEIU, AFL CIO, are not proggresives??

Many progressives were duped into believing Obama would represent them because he both lied about his positions on the campaign trail (what politician doesn't? but still...) or remained intentionally vague enough that they could believe what they liked. It's their fault too to a large degree, many people projected onto Obama whatever they wanted out of a politician regardless of whether he embodied it or not. Most genuine progressives who pay attention, if they ever voted for him or supported him at all, have now realized he's loyal to corporate cronies, banking institutions, the M-IC, even the Bush Administration to the extent that he's willing to break the law to shield them from investigation or prosecution for torture, all anathema to progressives. Not to mention his abysmal record on civil liberties (a key core of progressivism), personally killing the public option and prescription drug reimportation in private while lying about it in public (single-payer being what progressives supported, public option being what they could grudgingly live with, a bailout for insurance companies mandating everyone by private insurance even worse than the status quo to them), his rejection of the rule of law (another cornerstone of progressive ideology/policy), etc.

Obama is no genuine progressive so most genuine progressives do not support him. There were a considerable amount who did help him get elected, and if they didn't see the error of their ways by the time he was sworn in, if they pay attention to the news and his actual policies (rather than his rhetoric or just right-wing critics) they've since seen the light.

As for your list...

If Joel Rogers was ever a progressive, rather than just a party loyalist, he certainly no longer is considering he helped draft the bank bailout legislation which is corporatist to its core and against every principle of progressivism.

Andy Stern is a major union boss and booster for the Democratic Party to benefit unions and union members as a self-interested and myopic goal, not a progressive.

Van Jones is a progressive, that's why he was chased out of office and Obama didn't support him when he became the subject of controversy, but rather threw him under the bus.

Frank Lloyd I don't know, who is that?

George Soros is a billionaire die hard supporter of the Democratic Party who will throw money at any organization to help get any Democrat elected, not a progressive by any stretch of the imagination. Opposing neoconservatism is not remotely equivalent to progressivism, most political ideologies of the left, right, and center oppose neoconservatives.

The SEIU and AFL-CIO are non-ideological major unions, large self-interest groups who want what's best for the union and union members, not progressives.

Progressive has a specific meaning, like Libertarian. It's a political philosophy that ties into support for and opposition of many specific positions and policies, a great many of them if not most of them opposed and supported in opposite kind by the Democratic Party. One can easily argue that the Democratic Party generally is filled with American liberals, to the extent the definition of that term is defined by the plank of the party, but that doesn't mean they're progressive. Hell, careerist-to-the-core Hillary Clinton tried to claim to be progressive. In the same way many conservatives have taken issue with what they call "RINOs" (a term I think is stupid, but CINOS would make sense) or people who claim to be conservative but in their actions reveal themselves not to be, many Democrats and their supporters could accurately be labeled "PINOs."

Progressivism is a particular set of belies and ideology that the majority of Democratic politicians and movers and shakers do not share, in the same way most Republicans aren't Libertarians for instance.

That's why I made a point of distinguishing and clarifying "genuine progressives" and no, while a fair amount of genuine progressives voted for Obama, most did not and relative few support him today because his policies are largely antithetical to progressivism.
 
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Most of the far right are unable (or unwilling) to distinguish between true progressives and the run of the mill Democratic liberals and moderates and conservatives.

To conflate the two results from either ignorance, mental feebleness, or malignant intent.
 
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So far I am the only one who has documented what I said.
 
While I appluad your consistency,.... I dissagree with your premise that progressives don't like Obama,... as they are directly responsible for his being in office. Are you telling me that, Joel Rogers, Andy Stearn, Van Jones, Frank Lloyd, George Soros, SEIU, AFL CIO, are not proggresives??

Many progressives were duped into believing Obama would represent them because he both lied about his positions on the campaign trail (what politician doesn't? but still...) or remained intentionally vague enough that they could believe what they liked. It's their fault too to a large degree, many people projected onto Obama whatever they wanted out of a politician regardless of whether he embodied it or not.
We won...you LOST!!!

Quit'cher whining & get-over-it.​
 

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