To all who Challenge Christ, God, and the Holy Spirit

[editec]

If you meet the Buddha on the road....kill him.​

 

[Quantum Windbag]

How do you have a conversation with someone who doesn't exist?

By admitting you do not know everything.

 

[Avatar4321]

How do you have a conversation with someone who doesn't exist?

Why do you suppose He doesn't exist when you don't bother to try to know Him?

 

[JohnA]

How do you have a conversation with someone who doesn't exist?

Why do you suppose He doesn't exist when you don't bother to try to know Him?

why do you suppose he exists when there is no evidence that he does

 

[SillyWabbit]

How do you have a conversation with someone who doesn't exist?

Why do you suppose He doesn't exist when you don't bother to try to know Him?

why do you suppose he exists when there is no evidence that he does

I suppose it's a fucking joke.

 

[Jeremy]

To all who Challenge Christ, God, and the Holy Spirit

I challenge them.


But I can't decide if it is for a game of ping pong or Risk.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

To all who Challenge Christ, God, and the Holy Spirit

One can not ‘challenge’ something that doesn’t exist.

 

[ABikerSailor]

How do you have a conversation with someone who doesn't exist?

Why do you suppose He doesn't exist when you don't bother to try to know Him?

why do you suppose he exists when there is no evidence that he does

Actually, I've seen examples of God in my life REGULARLY. Just because you've never been somplace else, or because YOU have never seen anything, you are the one that doubts God's existence.

Ever seen a sea turtle? How's about a shark (up close and personal), or even sea snakes in the Red Sea? Do they exist, even though YOU'VE never seen them?

 

[mattskramer]

You Do not need to believe Just look up!

Num 23:19 "God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent. Has He said, and will He not do? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?

1 Sam 15:29 And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor relent. For He is not a man, that He should relent."

Psalms 122:5-7 For thrones are set there for judgment, The thrones of the house of David. Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: "May they prosper who love you.
Peace be within your walls, Prosperity within your palaces."

Isaiah 46:8-10 *"Remember this, and show yourselves men; Recall to mind, O you transgressors.
Remember the former things of old, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me,
Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, 'My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,'

Mal 3:6-7 "For I am the Lord, I do not change; Therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob.
Yet from the days of your fathers You have gone away from My ordinances And have not kept them. Return to Me, and I will return to you," Says the Lord of hosts. "But you said, 'In what way shall we return?'

Romans 11:29 *For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

Heb 1:11 They will perish, but You remain; And they will all grow old like a garment;

Heb 1:12 Like a cloak You will fold them up, And they will be changed. But You are the same, And Your years will not fail."

Heb 13:18 Pray for us; for we are confident that we have a good conscience, in all things desiring to live honorably.

James 3:1-12 My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment.
For we all stumble in many things. If anyone does not stumble in word, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle the whole body.
Indeed, we put bits in horses' mouths that they may obey us, and we turn their whole body.
Look also at ships: although they are so large and are driven by fierce winds, they are turned by a very small rudder wherever the pilot desires.
Even so the tongue is a little member and boasts great things. See how great a forest a little fire kindles!
And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity. The tongue is so set among our members that it defiles the whole body, and sets on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire by hell.
For every kind of beast and bird, of reptile and creature of the sea, is tamed and has been tamed by mankind.
But no man can tame the tongue. It is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
With it we bless our God and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the similitude of God.
Out of the same mouth proceed blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be so.
Does a spring send forth fresh water and bitter from the same opening?
Can a fig tree, my brethren, bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Thus no spring yields both salt water and fresh.

James 4:1-11 Where do wars and fights come from among you? Do they not come from your desires for pleasure that war in your members?
You lust and do not have. You murder and covet and cannot obtain. You fight and war. Yet you do not have because you do not ask.
You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures.
Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.
Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, "The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously"? But He gives more grace. Therefore He says: "God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble."
Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.
Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
Lament and mourn and weep! Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom.
Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up.
Do not speak evil of one another, brethren. He who speaks evil of a brother and judges his brother, speaks evil of the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge.

circular reasoning: stating in one's proposition that which one aims to prove. (e.g. God exists because the Bible says so; the Bible exists because God influenced it.)

 

[LumpyPostage]

Most people who worship God don't worship Jesus. And I doubt I'm the only person who never got that holy ghost thing. The three are not mutually inclusive.

 

[JohnA]

Why do you suppose He doesn't exist when you don't bother to try to know Him?

why do you suppose he exists when there is no evidence that he does

Actually, I've seen examples of God in my life REGULARLY. Just because you've never been somplace else, or because YOU have never seen anything, you are the one that doubts God's existence.

Ever seen a sea turtle? How's about a shark (up close and personal), or even sea snakes in the Red Sea? Do they exist, even though YOU'VE never seen them?

Stupid analogy those are things that EXIST there are pics, books ,events, witnesses ive eating shark meat \ seen a sea turtle at a zoo . etc
what do you have for proof of god

some ancient book written changed, revised ,translated all by third parties
nothing else

 

[emilynghiem]

If you don't believe in God..

Why would you care what Biblical passages say?

Comes in handy to know compatible and incompatible ways of interpreting the Bible.
So that when communicating with Christians or nontheists alike, you can stick to where these agree, and correct where there are intepretations/misperceptions that clash.

Christians are best rebuked/corrected using the Bible in the spirit of those laws.
Just as scientists use science, Constitutionalist use Constitutional laws, etc.
Whatever language people speak for the truth as they understand and commit to it,
it helps to learn that language to address audiences to reach an agreement
by resolving issues in the spirit of truth and common understanding.

 

[emilynghiem]

why do you suppose he exists when there is no evidence that he does

Actually, I've seen examples of God in my life REGULARLY. Just because you've never been somplace else, or because YOU have never seen anything, you are the one that doubts God's existence.

Ever seen a sea turtle? How's about a shark (up close and personal), or even sea snakes in the Red Sea? Do they exist, even though YOU'VE never seen them?

Stupid analogy those are things that EXIST there are pics, books ,events, witnesses ive eating shark meat \ seen a sea turtle at a zoo . etc
what do you have for proof of god

some ancient book written changed, revised ,translated all by third parties
nothing else

Dear JohnA: There are countless testimonies by people who have experienced connections with God, including medical records and studies on people healed by spiritual prayer.
If you count spiritual healing as proof that God/life energy works in a positive way toward health and healing, there are more and more studies and testimonies attesting to this.

If you count just corresponding definitions as proof of one God, you can find the same patterns repeating in all systems of religion even secular laws,
of the "trinity" of body/mind/spirit or individual/relationship/collective level of human nature. So you could take this as proof that human nature is made in the image of God, because all these independent religions all reflect the same three levels. Even the US govt has three levels, as does the Buddhist refuges of Buddha/Dharma/Sangha, psychology as id/ego/superego, Confucianism as Jen/Yi/Li, etc. So you could argue this as proof that all expressions of truth are rooted in the same source, some defining patterns in human nature universal to all systems though these were created independently.

 

[emilynghiem]

circular reasoning: stating in one's proposition that which one aims to prove. (e.g. God exists because the Bible says so; the Bible exists because God influenced it.)

Actually Matt I find it telling that the same three levels represented by the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are repeated in all systems of laws and religions, even secular philosophy. This is not restricted to just the Bible.

Buddhism has the Buddha the Dharma and the Sangha
Constitutional laws have the Judicial, the Legislative, and the Executive
Psychology has the Superego, the ego, and the Id
or also more commonly the Spirit, mind and body

The same patterns repeat that connect human nature
on an individual level of our physical body and experiences
with the collective level of the spiritual truth or global society/humanity,
plus an intermediary third level of conscience or relationship
connecting the individual level with the collective level.

You can use different names, terms or framework for these three levels.
but the relationship between them is analogous

So this reveals to me how human nature is made in the image of "God"
That all our ways of explaining the relationship between the individual
person and the whole in relationship with others, follow and reflect
similar three-part patterns no matter what our culture is, if we
think in terms of religion or social science, these systems we use
to define our world and relations are rooted in the same source.

We have common patterns to our human nature, and these universal
laws are what are expressed in either divine laws in religion or
natural laws in democracy or social sciences that are secular.

I find this truly amazing. Don't you?

 

[emilynghiem]

How do you have a conversation with someone who doesn't exist?

Hi Sky Dancer: Ah, the modern equivalent of asking
"what is the sound of one hand clapping" very good!

other questions we could ask
1. how do we get insights or answers about the future
if it hasn't happened yet, if we haven't seen proof
isn't that based on some higher faith
don't we ask for such answers like this all the time
(whether or not we call it God)

2. if atheists do not believe God exists,
what is there to be opposed to?
Isn't it really a matter of being opposed to Theists,
to what other people believe or impose

Isn't the real issue more opposition to the imposition
and not to the concept itself, especially something nonexistent

(and as for being Buddhist, if one is detached from the beliefs of oneself
and of others, which are impermanent,
then there is no fixed opposition, which is but a temporary illusion in our minds, right?)

 

[Avatar4321]

How do you have a conversation with someone who doesn't exist?

Why do you suppose He doesn't exist when you don't bother to try to know Him?

why do you suppose he exists when there is no evidence that he does

There is plenty of evidence. You might not find it convincing, but the evidence is all around you.

Moreover, I've had personal experiences with the Holy Spirit testifying to me that God is real. Who am I to deny God?

We have a Heavenly Father who wants to be involved in our lives. And you presume He doesnt exist because you dont bother looking around you and asking.

 

[nitroz]

Religion was proven to be the earliest forum of Government.
/thread over

 

[emilynghiem]

Why do you suppose He doesn't exist when you don't bother to try to know Him?

why do you suppose he exists when there is no evidence that he does

There is plenty of evidence. You might not find it convincing, but the evidence is all around you.

Moreover, I've had personal experiences with the Holy Spirit testifying to me that God is real. Who am I to deny God?

We have a Heavenly Father who wants to be involved in our lives. And you presume He doesnt exist because you dont bother looking around you and asking.

Dear JohnA and Avatar: Why is it that we do not question when people said that they "dreamed something". They could be lying, but we do not question their personal dreams that we cannot see. We can even measure the brain activity going on when people are dreaming, but cannot prove what the dream was or what it means.
We take it on faith that if someone interprets it to get meaning out of it, that's
what it means to that person, so what.

Now with prayer and spiritual experiences, these also show up as brain activity and certain brainwave types. Studies at Princeton on normal subjects (not chosen or tested for any psychic ability) were able to influence the outcome of random number sequences by focusing mentally on certain patterns to come up. The changes were significant enough to measure as beyond just random probability. The curious thing about these studies is that it did not matter if the prayer/thought/meditation took place BEFORE or AFTER the number sequence was run to get the result; it correlated the same. So this was used to show there is some connection between the mind and matter on a level that was not dependent on linear cause and effect timewise. You can call that prayer or whatever.

Why is this questioned so much for the purpose of refuting it?
Isn't there some other factor involved, such as issues with theists or religion
that is being imposed on the arguments and debates? Something personal where people either distrust theists or atheists, believers or nonbelievers, some resentment or other factor that is affecting if not obstructing objective research to find out what is true or not?

I happen to believe, by experience, the more this outside divisiveness is forgiven and people agree to RESOLVE whatever conflicting perceptions there are, then science and reason can be applied to establish common truth and understanding, based on forming a common frame of reference instead of competing to discredit each other's sources.

That is what I am most curious to see, how much progress could be made toward scientific objective proof or at least replicated repeat studies to show these theories apply over and over even if we can never prove them definitely as cause and effect or whatever.

Just recognizing there is some other factor involved here, on a personal level
that can interfere with the process of proof and/or correction of misperceptions.

If that factor can be removed, that is one less variable to have to figure out here.

 

[ciel_perdu]

Religion was proven to be the earliest forum of Government.
/thread over

I assume (correct me if I am wrong) that your implying that because Religion has been used to govern people that that means God does not exist?

That's quite a leap of logic.

I can't tell if you just have issues with Religion, or with Government too. I think most people who are against God don't like the idea of there being a will higher than our own, a will that wants us to submit to it. So people rebel. But, by running from government from God, you will run straight into government by man, or your own opinions.

As Bob Dylan once sang ''You'll have to serve someone''.

 

[LumpyPostage]

John said "Serve Yourself".