This will be controversial

[Natural Citizen]

I go step by step..... I love animals....

so my first step was to stop eating red meat

I still eat chicken and fish and seafood

but I do not eat red meat and ....I am not missing it

step by step

That's what I did. After a while it just feels better to be alive.

 

[Natural Citizen]

`
Well, I did skip over a few minutes here and there but did watch the whole thing. I'm not as talented at that guy. Considering, for example, that I had to learn how to do just basic maintenance by myself since moving up here, I'm not doing to bad. Of course I owe a lot of that to the guys up here who taught me. Same with hunting, especially field dressing. I go in with a neighbor and buy and split up a whole hog where the butcher prepares and wraps it all for the freezer. Same with beef cows. I'm not good at farming/gardening but I can grow a nice potent crop of killer bud. My forte however (aside from water) is power generated by wind turbines.

Old mcwindy had a farm. E I E I oh.

 

[boedicca]

I completely disagree, but let me ask you this… Who do you claim designed us to eat meat? The word design implies a designer, or creator. And if you’re coming at it from a Christian perspective, you are flat out wrong. Genesis 1:29–30 clearly states that our original design was to eat a plant-based diet.

Wrong man was given all animals to use and eat. But biologically man NEEDS meat, with out it you need special diets and vitamins.

Every vegan I know is sickly.

Then you don’t get out much. There are a fast growing amount of vegan athletes, vegan bodybuilders, runners, etc. You’re going by outdated, lame info.

I get out plenty, and every last vegan I have EVER met is constantly sick. ALWAYS something, always missing work. I think part of it is the pussy attitude that is part of the mental illness of vegans, but the diet doesn't help.

Thats strange. My wife is vegan. Puts in 60+ hours per week and hasn't taken a sick day in nearly 10 years. Not to mention, she works circles around anyone who cares to try to keep up with her.

What diet people want to follow is their business. It is wrong to put people down for that lifestyle choice that harms no one.

ON BOTH SIDES OF THIS ISSUE.

Live and let it go. As long as they are not making laws to force Me to eat that way, I could not care less.

Agreed. But I will note, I have never seen omnivores hectoring vegans about their food choices the way vegans annoy non-vegans.

 

[boedicca]

Dude. You made a point, I responded to that point, and you just moved on to your next point


That is what a person does when, on some level, they know the shit they are spouting is shit.

YOu made the point about people being "animal lovers", and I crushed it.

You haven’t crushed anything and I’m amazed that you’re choosing to still be needlessly argumentative instead of having an actual discussion.

No, you deceptively reframed my point. I never, ever ever claimed that ANYTIME someone doesn’t want to look at something, they shouldn’t support that thing. That was what YOU tried to make my argument into. You took my very specific point about what goes on in the animal industries and then went and looked for other things to compare it to, in order to put forth your strawman argument. I told you that repeatedly, but since you refused to concede, I simply moved the discussion forward. Because maybe you think playing word games is more important than having an actual exchange of ideas, but I don’t have time for word games and dishonest debating.

As for people being animal lovers, neither of us can claim to know what is in the mind/heart of every single person out there. But based on the people I know and everything I have seen, I have no doubt that if people had to actually kill the cow or pig with their own hands, seeing the fear and terror in the animal’s eyes, hearing the screams and watching it desperately struggle for its life as his throat is slit, a hell of a lot more people would be vegetarian. You’re free to disagree with that.

Time will tell, because that is one of the biggest reasons people go vegan. Because they realize that they could never kill the animal themselves in good conscience, when it’s completely unnecessary, so it’s hypocritical to pay someone else to do it for them daily. As more people go vegan, you will see.

It is not hypocritical to pay some one to do something you don't want, or can't do.


hy·poc·ri·sy
/həˈpäkrəsē/
noun

1. the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.

IF someone had a moral standard that they should be able to do anything they ask someone else to do, and they could not kill and butcher an animal, that would be hypocritical.


But if someone has the moral standard that killing and eating animals is ok, and they are just to sensitive to do it themselves, that is not hypocritical, it is just squeamish.


Now, if that person were to look down on people who worked on ranches, raising and slaughtering animals for them to eat, THAT would be hypocritical of them.



But what you describe, is not.



YOu have made an arbitrary moral judgement, and are acting like anyone that does not agree with you, is morally wrong.


That is nonsense on your part.


And I am being very, very gentle with you on that moral judgement.

OK, we are on two different pages here. You’re talking about someone being squeamish, that’s not what I’ve been talking about. I was talking about a person not being able to kill – not because that person doesn’t like the sight of blood, but because that person loves animals and would realize in that moment that causing the animal to go through terror, pain, and death, taking the one thing that’s most important to any sentient being, life itself, simply for the momentary satisfaction of eating a piece of meat, isn’t worth it and would feel wrong, for THEM. THAT is what I was talking about when I mentioned earlier that when a person like that pays someone else 3 times a day to do what they couldn’t do, their values are not in line with their actions.

And to be clear, I am not judging that type of person, because I was there myself a few years ago, all vegans were, and because as I said earlier, most of those types of people don’t realize that their values aren’t aligned with their actions, because most people who love animals yet eat a standard American diet don’t realize what exactly goes on in the animal industries, as well as the environmental impact, the health aspect, etc. Many people are blissfully unaware. Those are the people who I’ve been trying to reach, and it’s the reason I started a blog /YouTube channel called Live Mercifully.

No one loves "animals", any more than one loves "people".


We love some people. We might love, or like some animals.


I like my cat. My cat, i hope, likes me. My cat has killed, uncounted mice, birds and even two rabbits. The fact that the cat killed some animals, does not mean that it does not love or like other animals, such as the humans in the house.


I like my cat. ON the other hand, I have raised many, and in one instance helped kill, animals and ate it/them.


The two processes have nothing to do with each other.


YOu are unable to understand that most people are diffferent than you, and have no problem with behavior that you are railing against.

I don’t have to love every single person in the world to value human life in general, and have respect for human rights, and to try to treat people fairly and kindly.

It’s the same with animals. Of course most people, including vegans, aren’t necessarily crazy about every single animal. (Although believe it or not, people like that do exist, I’ve encountered people like that.) But when I say people who love animals, I’m talking about people who see the beauty and value of animals in general, and understand intuitively that they should be treated with respect and dignity. Those are the people I was referring to when I said if it ever came down to them having to kill a cow, pig or lamb with their own two hands, they probably wouldn’t be able to do it because it would go against their conscience, especially if it was unnecessary.

Yes, there are many people who only love their cat or dog, but have hardened their hearts toward other types of animals, namely farm animals. But that is because of centuries of conditioning, indoctrination.

That is exactly what many vegans are trying to expose and change. For example, Americans and others in the first world countries adore dogs, and treat dogs with so much love and kindness. Pigs are just as smart as dogs or even smarter, and just as social and loveable....yet they are one of the most abused, exploited animals of all. The only reason why is because of tradition, indoctrination, and because people like the taste of pork. (BTW, bacon in its original form does not taste the same way it does after it has been processed. You can ask Natural Citizen about that, he will explain.)

The bottom line is (this goes especially for those who say they love animals) it makes no sense to love and cherish a dog or cat, yet treat other animals who are just like dogs in the most horrific, abusive, cruel ways, which is exactly what goes on in factory farms and slaughterhouses.

What a crock of excrement.

 

[boedicca]

Deep in the soul of every vegan is a desperate meat eater just waiting for a cheeseburger.

Owners of famous California vegan restaurants get death threats when activists find they eat, slaughter meat on farm - NY Daily News

 

[Natural Citizen]

Thank you!! And same here about being for the underdog. That is precisely why I’m vegan, and prolife.

Well, you know I'm pretty much vegan myself. Except for the couple of weeks out of the year a couple times if I'm bulking.

I usually don't pop off about it much unless dookie starts flying, though. Know what I mean?

 

[buttercup]

You haven’t crushed anything and I’m amazed that you’re choosing to still be needlessly argumentative instead of having an actual discussion.

No, you deceptively reframed my point. I never, ever ever claimed that ANYTIME someone doesn’t want to look at something, they shouldn’t support that thing. That was what YOU tried to make my argument into. You took my very specific point about what goes on in the animal industries and then went and looked for other things to compare it to, in order to put forth your strawman argument. I told you that repeatedly, but since you refused to concede, I simply moved the discussion forward. Because maybe you think playing word games is more important than having an actual exchange of ideas, but I don’t have time for word games and dishonest debating.

As for people being animal lovers, neither of us can claim to know what is in the mind/heart of every single person out there. But based on the people I know and everything I have seen, I have no doubt that if people had to actually kill the cow or pig with their own hands, seeing the fear and terror in the animal’s eyes, hearing the screams and watching it desperately struggle for its life as his throat is slit, a hell of a lot more people would be vegetarian. You’re free to disagree with that.

Time will tell, because that is one of the biggest reasons people go vegan. Because they realize that they could never kill the animal themselves in good conscience, when it’s completely unnecessary, so it’s hypocritical to pay someone else to do it for them daily. As more people go vegan, you will see.

It is not hypocritical to pay some one to do something you don't want, or can't do.


hy·poc·ri·sy
/həˈpäkrəsē/
noun

1. the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.

IF someone had a moral standard that they should be able to do anything they ask someone else to do, and they could not kill and butcher an animal, that would be hypocritical.


But if someone has the moral standard that killing and eating animals is ok, and they are just to sensitive to do it themselves, that is not hypocritical, it is just squeamish.


Now, if that person were to look down on people who worked on ranches, raising and slaughtering animals for them to eat, THAT would be hypocritical of them.



But what you describe, is not.



YOu have made an arbitrary moral judgement, and are acting like anyone that does not agree with you, is morally wrong.


That is nonsense on your part.


And I am being very, very gentle with you on that moral judgement.

OK, we are on two different pages here. You’re talking about someone being squeamish, that’s not what I’ve been talking about. I was talking about a person not being able to kill – not because that person doesn’t like the sight of blood, but because that person loves animals and would realize in that moment that causing the animal to go through terror, pain, and death, taking the one thing that’s most important to any sentient being, life itself, simply for the momentary satisfaction of eating a piece of meat, isn’t worth it and would feel wrong, for THEM. THAT is what I was talking about when I mentioned earlier that when a person like that pays someone else 3 times a day to do what they couldn’t do, their values are not in line with their actions.

And to be clear, I am not judging that type of person, because I was there myself a few years ago, all vegans were, and because as I said earlier, most of those types of people don’t realize that their values aren’t aligned with their actions, because most people who love animals yet eat a standard American diet don’t realize what exactly goes on in the animal industries, as well as the environmental impact, the health aspect, etc. Many people are blissfully unaware. Those are the people who I’ve been trying to reach, and it’s the reason I started a blog /YouTube channel called Live Mercifully.

No one loves "animals", any more than one loves "people".


We love some people. We might love, or like some animals.


I like my cat. My cat, i hope, likes me. My cat has killed, uncounted mice, birds and even two rabbits. The fact that the cat killed some animals, does not mean that it does not love or like other animals, such as the humans in the house.


I like my cat. ON the other hand, I have raised many, and in one instance helped kill, animals and ate it/them.


The two processes have nothing to do with each other.


YOu are unable to understand that most people are diffferent than you, and have no problem with behavior that you are railing against.

I don’t have to love every single person in the world to value human life in general, and have respect for human rights, and to try to treat people fairly and kindly.

It’s the same with animals. Of course most people, including vegans, aren’t necessarily crazy about every single animal. (Although believe it or not, people like that do exist, I’ve encountered people like that.) But when I say people who love animals, I’m talking about people who see the beauty and value of animals in general, and understand intuitively that they should be treated with respect and dignity. Those are the people I was referring to when I said if it ever came down to them having to kill a cow, pig or lamb with their own two hands, they probably wouldn’t be able to do it because it would go against their conscience, especially if it was unnecessary.

Yes, there are many people who only love their cat or dog, but have hardened their hearts toward other types of animals, namely farm animals. But that is because of centuries of conditioning, indoctrination.

That is exactly what many vegans are trying to expose and change. For example, Americans and others in the first world countries adore dogs, and treat dogs with so much love and kindness. Pigs are just as smart as dogs or even smarter, and just as social and loveable....yet they are one of the most abused, exploited animals of all. The only reason why is because of tradition, indoctrination, and because people like the taste of pork. (BTW, bacon in its original form does not taste the same way it does after it has been processed. You can ask Natural Citizen about that, he will explain.)

The bottom line is (this goes especially for those who say they love animals) it makes no sense to love and cherish a dog or cat, yet treat other animals who are just like dogs in the most horrific, abusive, cruel ways, which is exactly what goes on in factory farms and slaughterhouses.

What a crock of excrement.

What did I say that you think is false? Please be specific.

 

[boedicca]

It is not hypocritical to pay some one to do something you don't want, or can't do.


hy·poc·ri·sy
/həˈpäkrəsē/
noun

1. the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.

IF someone had a moral standard that they should be able to do anything they ask someone else to do, and they could not kill and butcher an animal, that would be hypocritical.


But if someone has the moral standard that killing and eating animals is ok, and they are just to sensitive to do it themselves, that is not hypocritical, it is just squeamish.


Now, if that person were to look down on people who worked on ranches, raising and slaughtering animals for them to eat, THAT would be hypocritical of them.



But what you describe, is not.



YOu have made an arbitrary moral judgement, and are acting like anyone that does not agree with you, is morally wrong.


That is nonsense on your part.


And I am being very, very gentle with you on that moral judgement.

OK, we are on two different pages here. You’re talking about someone being squeamish, that’s not what I’ve been talking about. I was talking about a person not being able to kill – not because that person doesn’t like the sight of blood, but because that person loves animals and would realize in that moment that causing the animal to go through terror, pain, and death, taking the one thing that’s most important to any sentient being, life itself, simply for the momentary satisfaction of eating a piece of meat, isn’t worth it and would feel wrong, for THEM. THAT is what I was talking about when I mentioned earlier that when a person like that pays someone else 3 times a day to do what they couldn’t do, their values are not in line with their actions.

And to be clear, I am not judging that type of person, because I was there myself a few years ago, all vegans were, and because as I said earlier, most of those types of people don’t realize that their values aren’t aligned with their actions, because most people who love animals yet eat a standard American diet don’t realize what exactly goes on in the animal industries, as well as the environmental impact, the health aspect, etc. Many people are blissfully unaware. Those are the people who I’ve been trying to reach, and it’s the reason I started a blog /YouTube channel called Live Mercifully.

No one loves "animals", any more than one loves "people".


We love some people. We might love, or like some animals.


I like my cat. My cat, i hope, likes me. My cat has killed, uncounted mice, birds and even two rabbits. The fact that the cat killed some animals, does not mean that it does not love or like other animals, such as the humans in the house.


I like my cat. ON the other hand, I have raised many, and in one instance helped kill, animals and ate it/them.


The two processes have nothing to do with each other.


YOu are unable to understand that most people are diffferent than you, and have no problem with behavior that you are railing against.

I don’t have to love every single person in the world to value human life in general, and have respect for human rights, and to try to treat people fairly and kindly.

It’s the same with animals. Of course most people, including vegans, aren’t necessarily crazy about every single animal. (Although believe it or not, people like that do exist, I’ve encountered people like that.) But when I say people who love animals, I’m talking about people who see the beauty and value of animals in general, and understand intuitively that they should be treated with respect and dignity. Those are the people I was referring to when I said if it ever came down to them having to kill a cow, pig or lamb with their own two hands, they probably wouldn’t be able to do it because it would go against their conscience, especially if it was unnecessary.

Yes, there are many people who only love their cat or dog, but have hardened their hearts toward other types of animals, namely farm animals. But that is because of centuries of conditioning, indoctrination.

That is exactly what many vegans are trying to expose and change. For example, Americans and others in the first world countries adore dogs, and treat dogs with so much love and kindness. Pigs are just as smart as dogs or even smarter, and just as social and loveable....yet they are one of the most abused, exploited animals of all. The only reason why is because of tradition, indoctrination, and because people like the taste of pork. (BTW, bacon in its original form does not taste the same way it does after it has been processed. You can ask Natural Citizen about that, he will explain.)

The bottom line is (this goes especially for those who say they love animals) it makes no sense to love and cherish a dog or cat, yet treat other animals who are just like dogs in the most horrific, abusive, cruel ways, which is exactly what goes on in factory farms and slaughterhouses.

What a crock of excrement.

What did I say that you think is false? Please be specific.

I find you intellectually and ethically disingenuous. Your burning strawxyrs are polluting this board.

 

[deannalw]

Deep in the soul of every vegan is a desperate meat eater just waiting for a cheeseburger.

Owners of famous California vegan restaurants get death threats when activists find they eat, slaughter meat on farm - NY Daily News

LOL!

They won't kill a chicken for a few nuggets, but they'll kill a human for eating a chicken!?

Too funny.

This is a great thread.

But I'm still gonna snarf a plate of bacon.

 

[boedicca]

There is an Aesop's fable about the fox who loses his tail and tries to convince all of the other foxes to have theirs removed. The moral is misery loves company.

And it's very telling how many drunk vegetarians eat meat.

A Huge Number Of Vegetarians Eat Meat When They're Drunk

 

[deannalw]

There is an Aesop's fable about the fox who loses his tail and tries to convince all of the other foxes to have theirs removed. The moral is misery loves company.

And it's very telling how many drunk vegetarians eat meat.

A Huge Number Of Vegetarians Eat Meat When They're Drunk

LMAO! I don't care who ya are, drunken cheater vegetarians are hilarious.

 

[Darkwind]

Wrong man was given all animals to use and eat. But biologically man NEEDS meat, with out it you need special diets and vitamins.

Every vegan I know is sickly.

Then you don’t get out much. There are a fast growing amount of vegan athletes, vegan bodybuilders, runners, etc. You’re going by outdated, lame info.

I get out plenty, and every last vegan I have EVER met is constantly sick. ALWAYS something, always missing work. I think part of it is the pussy attitude that is part of the mental illness of vegans, but the diet doesn't help.

Thats strange. My wife is vegan. Puts in 60+ hours per week and hasn't taken a sick day in nearly 10 years. Not to mention, she works circles around anyone who cares to try to keep up with her.

What diet people want to follow is their business. It is wrong to put people down for that lifestyle choice that harms no one.

ON BOTH SIDES OF THIS ISSUE.

Live and let it go. As long as they are not making laws to force Me to eat that way, I could not care less.

Agreed. But I will note, I have never seen omnivores hectoring vegans about their food choices the way vegans annoy non-vegans.

View attachment 230164

I have. I find that just as annoying at the militant vegans.

BTW...what is the uniform patch for a militant vegan? Cross carrots? Or would that be vegetarian?

 

[buttercup]

OK, we are on two different pages here. You’re talking about someone being squeamish, that’s not what I’ve been talking about. I was talking about a person not being able to kill – not because that person doesn’t like the sight of blood, but because that person loves animals and would realize in that moment that causing the animal to go through terror, pain, and death, taking the one thing that’s most important to any sentient being, life itself, simply for the momentary satisfaction of eating a piece of meat, isn’t worth it and would feel wrong, for THEM. THAT is what I was talking about when I mentioned earlier that when a person like that pays someone else 3 times a day to do what they couldn’t do, their values are not in line with their actions.

And to be clear, I am not judging that type of person, because I was there myself a few years ago, all vegans were, and because as I said earlier, most of those types of people don’t realize that their values aren’t aligned with their actions, because most people who love animals yet eat a standard American diet don’t realize what exactly goes on in the animal industries, as well as the environmental impact, the health aspect, etc. Many people are blissfully unaware. Those are the people who I’ve been trying to reach, and it’s the reason I started a blog /YouTube channel called Live Mercifully.

No one loves "animals", any more than one loves "people".


We love some people. We might love, or like some animals.


I like my cat. My cat, i hope, likes me. My cat has killed, uncounted mice, birds and even two rabbits. The fact that the cat killed some animals, does not mean that it does not love or like other animals, such as the humans in the house.


I like my cat. ON the other hand, I have raised many, and in one instance helped kill, animals and ate it/them.


The two processes have nothing to do with each other.


YOu are unable to understand that most people are diffferent than you, and have no problem with behavior that you are railing against.

I don’t have to love every single person in the world to value human life in general, and have respect for human rights, and to try to treat people fairly and kindly.

It’s the same with animals. Of course most people, including vegans, aren’t necessarily crazy about every single animal. (Although believe it or not, people like that do exist, I’ve encountered people like that.) But when I say people who love animals, I’m talking about people who see the beauty and value of animals in general, and understand intuitively that they should be treated with respect and dignity. Those are the people I was referring to when I said if it ever came down to them having to kill a cow, pig or lamb with their own two hands, they probably wouldn’t be able to do it because it would go against their conscience, especially if it was unnecessary.

Yes, there are many people who only love their cat or dog, but have hardened their hearts toward other types of animals, namely farm animals. But that is because of centuries of conditioning, indoctrination.

That is exactly what many vegans are trying to expose and change. For example, Americans and others in the first world countries adore dogs, and treat dogs with so much love and kindness. Pigs are just as smart as dogs or even smarter, and just as social and loveable....yet they are one of the most abused, exploited animals of all. The only reason why is because of tradition, indoctrination, and because people like the taste of pork. (BTW, bacon in its original form does not taste the same way it does after it has been processed. You can ask Natural Citizen about that, he will explain.)

The bottom line is (this goes especially for those who say they love animals) it makes no sense to love and cherish a dog or cat, yet treat other animals who are just like dogs in the most horrific, abusive, cruel ways, which is exactly what goes on in factory farms and slaughterhouses.

What a crock of excrement.

What did I say that you think is false? Please be specific.

I find you intellectually and ethically disingenuous. Your burning strawxyrs are polluting this board.

So no arguments about veganism… just an attack on me personally? That is disappointing, since you know me from Discuss Anything, and I posted there for many years, and I thought you knew that I’m sincere. Or did you not know that I am lily from DA?

It’s also disappointing because you used to get a lot of hate there, and there were a few times when I defended you, amidst the nasty attacks you used to get from some of the liberals there. And now because I am vegan all of a sudden I’m the enemy?

 

[boedicca]

There is an Aesop's fable about the fox who loses his tail and tries to convince all of the other foxes to have theirs removed. The moral is misery loves company.

And it's very telling how many drunk vegetarians eat meat.

A Huge Number Of Vegetarians Eat Meat When They're Drunk

LMAO! I don't care who ya are, drunken cheater vegetarians are hilarious.

I know a great many vegans and vegetarians. The decent ones just mind their own business and don't comment on what other people eat. I have noticed that the ones who are the loudest and most obnoxious about being Vegan-Vegetarians are the ones who are most prone to Drunk Meat Eating...with Cheeseburgers and Bacon being high on the list of preferred meats to eat.

 

[boedicca]

Every vegan I know is sickly.

Then you don’t get out much. There are a fast growing amount of vegan athletes, vegan bodybuilders, runners, etc. You’re going by outdated, lame info.

I get out plenty, and every last vegan I have EVER met is constantly sick. ALWAYS something, always missing work. I think part of it is the pussy attitude that is part of the mental illness of vegans, but the diet doesn't help.

Thats strange. My wife is vegan. Puts in 60+ hours per week and hasn't taken a sick day in nearly 10 years. Not to mention, she works circles around anyone who cares to try to keep up with her.

What diet people want to follow is their business. It is wrong to put people down for that lifestyle choice that harms no one.

ON BOTH SIDES OF THIS ISSUE.

Live and let it go. As long as they are not making laws to force Me to eat that way, I could not care less.

Agreed. But I will note, I have never seen omnivores hectoring vegans about their food choices the way vegans annoy non-vegans.

View attachment 230164

I have. I find that just as annoying at the militant vegans.

BTW...what is the uniform patch for a militant vegan? Cross carrots? Or would that be vegetarian?

Anthropomorphic Broccoli:

 

[Darkwind]

Then you don’t get out much. There are a fast growing amount of vegan athletes, vegan bodybuilders, runners, etc. You’re going by outdated, lame info.

I get out plenty, and every last vegan I have EVER met is constantly sick. ALWAYS something, always missing work. I think part of it is the pussy attitude that is part of the mental illness of vegans, but the diet doesn't help.

Thats strange. My wife is vegan. Puts in 60+ hours per week and hasn't taken a sick day in nearly 10 years. Not to mention, she works circles around anyone who cares to try to keep up with her.

What diet people want to follow is their business. It is wrong to put people down for that lifestyle choice that harms no one.

ON BOTH SIDES OF THIS ISSUE.

Live and let it go. As long as they are not making laws to force Me to eat that way, I could not care less.

Agreed. But I will note, I have never seen omnivores hectoring vegans about their food choices the way vegans annoy non-vegans.

View attachment 230164

I have. I find that just as annoying at the militant vegans.

BTW...what is the uniform patch for a militant vegan? Cross carrots? Or would that be vegetarian?

Anthropomorphic Broccoli:

View attachment 230169

I was worried you'd come back with the 'rutabaga brigade'. lol

 

[boedicca]

No one loves "animals", any more than one loves "people".


We love some people. We might love, or like some animals.


I like my cat. My cat, i hope, likes me. My cat has killed, uncounted mice, birds and even two rabbits. The fact that the cat killed some animals, does not mean that it does not love or like other animals, such as the humans in the house.


I like my cat. ON the other hand, I have raised many, and in one instance helped kill, animals and ate it/them.


The two processes have nothing to do with each other.


YOu are unable to understand that most people are diffferent than you, and have no problem with behavior that you are railing against.

I don’t have to love every single person in the world to value human life in general, and have respect for human rights, and to try to treat people fairly and kindly.

It’s the same with animals. Of course most people, including vegans, aren’t necessarily crazy about every single animal. (Although believe it or not, people like that do exist, I’ve encountered people like that.) But when I say people who love animals, I’m talking about people who see the beauty and value of animals in general, and understand intuitively that they should be treated with respect and dignity. Those are the people I was referring to when I said if it ever came down to them having to kill a cow, pig or lamb with their own two hands, they probably wouldn’t be able to do it because it would go against their conscience, especially if it was unnecessary.

Yes, there are many people who only love their cat or dog, but have hardened their hearts toward other types of animals, namely farm animals. But that is because of centuries of conditioning, indoctrination.

That is exactly what many vegans are trying to expose and change. For example, Americans and others in the first world countries adore dogs, and treat dogs with so much love and kindness. Pigs are just as smart as dogs or even smarter, and just as social and loveable....yet they are one of the most abused, exploited animals of all. The only reason why is because of tradition, indoctrination, and because people like the taste of pork. (BTW, bacon in its original form does not taste the same way it does after it has been processed. You can ask Natural Citizen about that, he will explain.)

The bottom line is (this goes especially for those who say they love animals) it makes no sense to love and cherish a dog or cat, yet treat other animals who are just like dogs in the most horrific, abusive, cruel ways, which is exactly what goes on in factory farms and slaughterhouses.

What a crock of excrement.

What did I say that you think is false? Please be specific.

I find you intellectually and ethically disingenuous. Your burning strawxyrs are polluting this board.

So no arguments about veganism… just an attack on me personally? That is disappointing, since you know me from Discuss Anything, and I posted there for many years, and I thought you knew that I’m sincere. Or did you not know that I am lily from DA?

It’s also disappointing because you used to get a lot of hate there, and there were a few times when I defended you, amidst the nasty attacks you used to get from some of the liberals there. And now because I am vegan all of a sudden I’m the enemy?

I did not recognize you from DA - that was over 10 years ago.

I find you sneaking a video that is highly disturbing to many to be quite disingenuous at best. It is also unfair to equate eating meat with torturing animals. If you think that attacking people and trying to make them feel guilty is going to win Vegan converts, you are sorely mistaken.

 

[buttercup]

I don’t have to love every single person in the world to value human life in general, and have respect for human rights, and to try to treat people fairly and kindly.

It’s the same with animals. Of course most people, including vegans, aren’t necessarily crazy about every single animal. (Although believe it or not, people like that do exist, I’ve encountered people like that.) But when I say people who love animals, I’m talking about people who see the beauty and value of animals in general, and understand intuitively that they should be treated with respect and dignity. Those are the people I was referring to when I said if it ever came down to them having to kill a cow, pig or lamb with their own two hands, they probably wouldn’t be able to do it because it would go against their conscience, especially if it was unnecessary.

Yes, there are many people who only love their cat or dog, but have hardened their hearts toward other types of animals, namely farm animals. But that is because of centuries of conditioning, indoctrination.

That is exactly what many vegans are trying to expose and change. For example, Americans and others in the first world countries adore dogs, and treat dogs with so much love and kindness. Pigs are just as smart as dogs or even smarter, and just as social and loveable....yet they are one of the most abused, exploited animals of all. The only reason why is because of tradition, indoctrination, and because people like the taste of pork. (BTW, bacon in its original form does not taste the same way it does after it has been processed. You can ask Natural Citizen about that, he will explain.)

The bottom line is (this goes especially for those who say they love animals) it makes no sense to love and cherish a dog or cat, yet treat other animals who are just like dogs in the most horrific, abusive, cruel ways, which is exactly what goes on in factory farms and slaughterhouses.

What a crock of excrement.

What did I say that you think is false? Please be specific.

I find you intellectually and ethically disingenuous. Your burning strawxyrs are polluting this board.

So no arguments about veganism… just an attack on me personally? That is disappointing, since you know me from Discuss Anything, and I posted there for many years, and I thought you knew that I’m sincere. Or did you not know that I am lily from DA?

It’s also disappointing because you used to get a lot of hate there, and there were a few times when I defended you, amidst the nasty attacks you used to get from some of the liberals there. And now because I am vegan all of a sudden I’m the enemy?

I did not recognize you from DA - that was over 10 years ago.

I find you sneaking a video that is highly disturbing to many to be quite disingenuous at best. It is also unfair to equate eating meat with torturing animals. If you think that attacking people and trying to make them feel guilty is going to win Vegan converts, you are sorely mistaken.

I know. You said that yesterday. And I apologized yesterday for not posting a warning.

This thread was actually a spur of the moment thing. And on top of it being spur of the moment, when I was setting up the thread, I accidentally hit enter or something and the thread posted before it was finished… before the video was even embedded, and I had to quickly fix it.

But I admit, even with that premature posting, I hadn’t planned to post a warning… maybe because I just wanted people to click on it. And I know that when you put a warning up, usually the very people who should see it, refuse to look at it.

That’s actually how I became vegan. Someone didn’t put a warning up and I watched slaughterhouse footage and was horrified because I realized I was paying for that.

If you hate my posts about veganism so much, maybe you should put me on ignore, or just don’t click on my threads? I actually don’t plan to post any more vegan threads in the near future, since it seems to be a waste of time here.

 

[Windparadox]

`
If one tends to be a survivalist like me, one eats to live not lives to eat. Surviving means eating what is available. Lima beans (not my favorite) is a feast compared to starving......meat included, which I include fowl as.

 

[Pete7469]

Both are bad. Killing a human baby is murder, but I think there’s a similar spirit behind the act of taking advantage of and killing the defenseless / innocent/ vulnerable among us (animals) for selfish reasons. In my opinion.

It's a stupid opinion.

Many animals are delicious.

Don't eat them if you don't want to.