This will be controversial

[RetiredGySgt]

Science does NOT lie. As for religion you are the one that seems to be religious about Veganism. The science is clear humans are omnivores and always have been. You keep ignoring that.

 

[buttercup]

Science does NOT lie. As for religion you are the one that seems to be religious about Veganism. The science is clear humans are omnivores and always have been. You keep ignoring that.

You’re not answering simple, direct questions. I’ll ask you again. The word “designed” implies a designer, who are you claiming designed us to eat meat?

Second question, did you watch the video? The video goes over the science. You keep ignoring that, perhaps because you desperately wants to justify forever eating meat. Don’t worry, no one is going to take your animals carcasses away from you. At least not until Jesus returns.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Science does NOT lie. As for religion you are the one that seems to be religious about Veganism. The science is clear humans are omnivores and always have been. You keep ignoring that.

You’re not answering simple, direct questions. I’ll ask you again. The word “designed” implies a designer, who are you claiming designed us to eat meat?

Second question, did you watch the video? The video goes over the science. You keep ignoring that, perhaps because you desperately wants to justify forever eating meat. Don’t worry, no one is going to take your animals carcasses away from you. At least not until Jesus returns.

Science is clear and YOU not I are ignoring it physically we as humans are OMNIVORES no amount of wishful thinking no amount of religious belief in veganism will change it. We are designed by NATURE to eat meat. It is simply the facts of life and you can not change it by finding corrupted scientists to claim otherwise. As for my religion I am currently a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints but am looking into possible changing that to Jehovah Witness.

 

[buttercup]

Science does NOT lie. As for religion you are the one that seems to be religious about Veganism. The science is clear humans are omnivores and always have been. You keep ignoring that.

You’re not answering simple, direct questions. I’ll ask you again. The word “designed” implies a designer, who are you claiming designed us to eat meat?

Second question, did you watch the video? The video goes over the science. You keep ignoring that, perhaps because you desperately wants to justify forever eating meat. Don’t worry, no one is going to take your animals carcasses away from you. At least not until Jesus returns.

Science is clear and YOU not I are ignoring it physically we as humans are OMNIVORES no amount of wishful thinking no amount of religious belief in veganism will change it. We are designed by NATURE to eat meat. It is simply the facts of life and you can not change it by finding corrupted scientists to claim otherwise. As for my religion I am currently a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints but am looking into possible changing that to Jehovah Witness.

I see you didn’t watch the video. Simply stating something doesn’t make it true. You’re not backing yourself up, you’re just repeating the word science. In the video, they go over pretty much everything, point by point. If you think it’s so wrong, refute the claims. But simply using the word “science” is not an argument.

But honestly, I get the feeling this discussion is pointless.

 

[deannalw]

It's true, we kill animals and eat them.

Thanks for missing the point. The entire system is evil, damaging on a number of levels, barbaric and completely unnecessary. I am more interested in getting people who love animals yet pay for their abuse and torture to take the red pill. I’m not interested in getting people like you to care. But thanks for your input.

I bet that kid in your Avi ate that turkey.......after chopping it's head off and laughing hysterically while it ran around bouncing off of tree trunks.

I've seen chickens fly over the barn after getting their head chopped off.

When I was around 6 I was playing 2ith my cousin while my aunt lopped a chicken head off. That sucker made a headless beeline right at me. I swiftly became the worlds fastest 6 year old.

Pretty sure I needed therapy.

 

[deannalw]

Again Vegans either take supplements and have a very strict diet or they are sickly as hell, man is biologically BUILT to eat meat. It is a scientific FACT.

This man is over 100 years old, and has been a vegan for more than 50 years. Still healthy, still has a sharp mind… He retired at 95! He was a heart surgeon, so he knows what he’s talking about.

Anecdotes! I love them.

My grampa started smoking when he was 11 years old. He smoked till the day he died at almost 100 years.

Go figure. One guy lives to be old as dirt by doing what you say is the right way to be.

Got another doing the exact opposite and he died old as dirt too.

Anecdotals are interesting but seldom have any value as proof of a thing.

 

[deannalw]

Science does NOT lie. As for religion you are the one that seems to be religious about Veganism. The science is clear humans are omnivores and always have been. You keep ignoring that.

You’re not answering simple, direct questions. I’ll ask you again. The word “designed” implies a designer, who are you claiming designed us to eat meat?

Second question, did you watch the video? The video goes over the science. You keep ignoring that, perhaps because you desperately wants to justify forever eating meat. Don’t worry, no one is going to take your animals carcasses away from you. At least not until Jesus returns.

Jesus is gonna snatch my chicken and roast?

He best not try!

 

[buttercup]

Again Vegans either take supplements and have a very strict diet or they are sickly as hell, man is biologically BUILT to eat meat. It is a scientific FACT.

This man is over 100 years old, and has been a vegan for more than 50 years. Still healthy, still has a sharp mind… He retired at 95! He was a heart surgeon, so he knows what he’s talking about.

Anecdotes! I love them.

My grampa started smoking when he was 11 years old. He smoked till the day he died at almost 100 years.

Go figure. One guy lives to be old as dirt by doing what you say is the right way to be.

Got another doing the exact opposite and he died old as dirt too.

Anecdotals are interesting but seldom have any value as proof of a thing.

It wasn’t about only his age, it was his overall health / vitality. And his wise words. And the reason I posted that is because the guy I was replying to claimed that vegans were sickly as hell unless they take vitamins, and he implied that man cannot live on a plant based diet. Which is demonstrably untrue. But I didn’t post only an anecdote, I also posted a list of statements from medical and dietetic associations.

 

[deannalw]

Again Vegans either take supplements and have a very strict diet or they are sickly as hell, man is biologically BUILT to eat meat. It is a scientific FACT.

This man is over 100 years old, and has been a vegan for more than 50 years. Still healthy, still has a sharp mind… He retired at 95! He was a heart surgeon, so he knows what he’s talking about.

Anecdotes! I love them.

My grampa started smoking when he was 11 years old. He smoked till the day he died at almost 100 years.

Go figure. One guy lives to be old as dirt by doing what you say is the right way to be.

Got another doing the exact opposite and he died old as dirt too.

Anecdotals are interesting but seldom have any value as proof of a thing.

It wasn’t about only his age, it was his overall health / vitality. And his wise words. And the reason I posted that is because the guy I was replying to claimed that vegans were sickly as hell unless they take vitamins, and he implied that man cannot live on a plant based diet. Which is demonstrably untrue. But I didn’t post only an anecdote, I also posted a list of statements from medical and dietetic associations.

I dunno. I had a few courses on nutrition, health, etc. in college and while the vegetarian and vegan lifestyles were part of the curriculum, there was no mention of that being how humans are supposed to be.

I know some healthy vegetarians and some that resemble anorexia models. Same with folks that eat meat. Some healthy, some not so much.

I think this country is in trouble when it comes to having and keeping a healthy body. We are too fat. We treat our bodies like shit and shake our heads in wonder when cousin Bubba needs a kidney transplant.

These fad diets do more harm than good sometimes and yo-yo dieting can be a terrible!e thing for you health wise. If one knows what they are doing and go into the veggie muncher lifestyle with good, solid info, they'll probably be fine. But most in both camps are woefully short on facts and go blithely on while they rot their organs doing it all wrong.

You are very convinced you are correct and leave no doubt as to how you feel about us horrible meat eaters. It doesn't make for a great platform to debate from, does it?

 

[buttercup]

Again Vegans either take supplements and have a very strict diet or they are sickly as hell, man is biologically BUILT to eat meat. It is a scientific FACT.

This man is over 100 years old, and has been a vegan for more than 50 years. Still healthy, still has a sharp mind… He retired at 95! He was a heart surgeon, so he knows what he’s talking about.

Anecdotes! I love them.

My grampa started smoking when he was 11 years old. He smoked till the day he died at almost 100 years.

Go figure. One guy lives to be old as dirt by doing what you say is the right way to be.

Got another doing the exact opposite and he died old as dirt too.

Anecdotals are interesting but seldom have any value as proof of a thing.

It wasn’t about only his age, it was his overall health / vitality. And his wise words. And the reason I posted that is because the guy I was replying to claimed that vegans were sickly as hell unless they take vitamins, and he implied that man cannot live on a plant based diet. Which is demonstrably untrue. But I didn’t post only an anecdote, I also posted a list of statements from medical and dietetic associations.

I dunno. I had a few courses on nutrition, health, etc. in college and while the vegetarian and vegan lifestyles were part of the curriculum, there was no mention of that being how humans are supposed to be.

I know some healthy vegetarians and some that resemble anorexia models. Same with folks that eat meat. Some healthy, some not so much.

I think this country is in trouble when it comes to having and keeping a healthy body. We are too fat. We treat our bodies like shit and shake our heads in wonder when cousin Bubba needs a kidney transplant.

These fad diets do more harm than good sometimes and yo-yo dieting can be a terrible!e thing for you health wise. If one knows what they are doing and go into the veggie muncher lifestyle with good, solid info, they'll probably be fine. But most in both camps are woefully short on facts and go blithely on while they rot their organs doing it all wrong.

You are very convinced you are correct and leave no doubt as to how you feel about us horrible meat eaters. It doesn't make for a great platform to debate from, does it?

I agree with a lot of what you said. But I disagree if you think that veganism is just a fad. I may not be able to prove it but I firmly believe it is the future. It’s already happening, and of course it will take many years, but we’re going in that direction.

And I just want to make something very clear. I don’t think that meat eaters are horrible people, as you said. Based on everything I’ve seen, I honestly think that there are tons of people who simply don’t realize how bad things are, not only the abuse/cruelty in the animal industries, but also how bad the impact is on the environment, the health aspect of it, etc. In other words, like the video in the original post says, a lot of people are living in a sort of slumberland. I think a lot of people do care about animals, and simply need to see what they are supporting, and then when they realize their values are not in line with their daily actions, it’s up to them to make a change, or not.

That said, there’s a different type of person, the type who DOES fully know, and simply doesn’t care. Those are not the people who I’m trying to reach, because it’s pointless. You can’t make someone care. All we can do is plant seeds, but as I said, for me it’s more about reaching out to people who DO love animals, and DO care about the world and would be open to going on a new path, for numerous good reasons. There are many people like that.

 

[Windparadox]

Oh, you watched the whole thing? It was a little long, sorry. I probably shoulda mentioned to skip toward the end.

`
Well, I did skip over a few minutes here and there but did watch the whole thing. I'm not as talented at that guy. Considering, for example, that I had to learn how to do just basic maintenance by myself since moving up here, I'm not doing to bad. Of course I owe a lot of that to the guys up here who taught me. Same with hunting, especially field dressing. I go in with a neighbor and buy and split up a whole hog where the butcher prepares and wraps it all for the freezer. Same with beef cows. I'm not good at farming/gardening but I can grow a nice potent crop of killer bud. My forte however (aside from water) is power generated by wind turbines.

 

[Correll]

Your words


, to the point of refusing to look at it, yet not by the actual act or those industries overall."



So, you've dropped that argument, the moment you were called on it. Kind of shows that you were not serious about that argument to start with.


ANimals are not objects. They are animals.

Strawman. My argument was NEVER that anything people don’t want to see is something they shouldn’t support. That was your deceptive rephrasing of my argument.

And just to add to what I said earlier, I think a lot of Americans, especially animal lovers and women (who are generally more empathetic than men) could never kill a cow or pig with their own two hands, yet they pay others to do that on a daily basis. And no, not simply because it’s messy or gross, but because a true animal lover would look the animal in the eye and have compassion rather than slit its throat just to have a snack.

1. I did not rephrase your words. I cut and pasted them.

2. I think the vast majority of Americans, animal lovers or not, would if it was their job, would be quite able to look an animal in the eye, and then slaughter the animal, however it is done, in order to feed people.

YOu know, since humans have been doing that since there WERE humans.

I think you’re underestimating how much people love animals. What you said doesn’t make much sense because most people wouldn’t take the job in the slaughterhouse in the first place. It is a known fact that people who work in slaughterhouses often end up with PTSD or other emotional problems. Which says a lot in and of itself. Just because some of you guys couldn’t care less doesn’t mean everyone else is like that.

For the vast majority of human history, and prehistory, humans hunted or raised animals, and then killed and ate them.

Animal loving, did not slow that down.

We’re living in a different world now. Most people do not kill animals for survival. Some might think they are, but as those quotes I posted earlier show, from a health standpoint, it is completely unnecessary. It’s done because of habit/ tradition/ taste.

Factory farms are filling up entire lagoons with animal waste (actual shit), contaminating groundwater, polluting rivers, polluting the air, causing people living nearby to be sick. An outrageous amount of rainforests are being destroyed continually, to make room for animal agriculture. Outrageous amounts of resources are being completely wasted, because of animal agriculture. It’s killing people and it’s killing the planet. I completely understand your position. I was there myself. But mark my words… The world is changing. A plant based diet is the future. Not only from a secular standpoint, as people are going vegan in droves, but also from a biblical standpoint.

Dude. You made a point, I responded to that point, and you just moved on to your next point


That is what a person does when, on some level, they know the shit they are spouting is shit.

YOu made the point about people being "animal lovers", and I crushed it.

 

[Correll]

No, I was not talking about it in the broad way that you’re framing it. Obviously people don’t want to watch things like poop being processed or someone having surgery. I’m saying that your comparisons are ridiculous, but if that’s what you really believe then nothing I say will get through to you, if you see animals as mere objects.

Your words


, to the point of refusing to look at it, yet not by the actual act or those industries overall."



So, you've dropped that argument, the moment you were called on it. Kind of shows that you were not serious about that argument to start with.


ANimals are not objects. They are animals.

Strawman. My argument was NEVER that anything people don’t want to see is something they shouldn’t support. That was your deceptive rephrasing of my argument.

And just to add to what I said earlier, I think a lot of Americans, especially animal lovers and women (who are generally more empathetic than men) could never kill a cow or pig with their own two hands, yet they pay others to do that on a daily basis. And no, not simply because it’s messy or gross, but because a true animal lover would look the animal in the eye and have compassion rather than slit its throat just to have a snack.

There was an episode of Anthony Bordain a couple seasons ago, where he participated in the slaughter of the village's night feast. You could see he didn't enjoy the experience, but he sure enjoyed those tasty lamb chops that night.

I never watched that show. But I heard about him… I heard he ate anything.

And drank everything.
Very interesting show. More about the cultures and politics of the areas he visits. Talks with the regular folks worldwide.
Worth a look see, if your ever bored. Of course you would have to put up with all the meat eating.

I have no interest in the food of the world, but regular folks world wide does sound interesting.

 

[Darkwind]

Reality is sometimes ugly, but it’s better to know the truth and respond to it one way or the other, rather than perpetually live in dream world.
GRAPHIC VIDEO

Is there some brutality? Of course. However, I think you owe us an explanation of the video.

IT is clearly spliced to show the most horrific parts of animal slaughter. So, how old are most of those splices?

Have you been to a modern slaughterhouse? Things are done much more humanely in MOST places -- not all -- however, the fact that some people/companies are a bit barbaric in their manner of slaughter is no reason for Me, or any other omnivore, to stop eating.

Both My wife and middle daughter are vegan. They share recipes among themselves and search out vender that cater to the vegan lifestyle. They are not militant about it, Nor do they condemn those who are not vegan.

I, on the other hand, take a different approach to diet.

Of the three macronutrients, only two are essential to life.

Protein and Fat.

Carbohydrates are NOT essential to life. In fact, the human body can live a great deal longer and healthier on a no carb diet than they can on one loaded with useless carbs.

I get it that you don't like killing. Most people don't. Do NOT expect that your lifestyle choice is the right one for anyone but yourself.

 

[blastoff]

Man is DESIGNED to eat meat. When one does not eat meat one must jump through hoops to get all the things they no longer get from meat consumption.

I completely disagree, but let me ask you this… Who do you claim designed us to eat meat? The word design implies a designer, or creator. And if you’re coming at it from a Christian perspective, you are flat out wrong. Genesis 1:29–30 clearly states that our original design was to eat a plant-based diet.

If you pay attention to the Jews (remember, the OT is THEIR book), you would know that after the Flood, mankind was so weakened that God decided to lift the ban on eating meat.

Interestingly enough, there were rules back in those times about who could and couldn't eat meat. If you were poor, no meat. If you were middle class, meat once a week. If you were wealthy? Then you had meat every day.

Learned that from a religious show called "Hidden in the Hebrew with Uri Harel".

Yeah, but there weren’t any old rich white guys to blame stuff like the flood and whatnot on.

 

[buttercup]

Strawman. My argument was NEVER that anything people don’t want to see is something they shouldn’t support. That was your deceptive rephrasing of my argument.

And just to add to what I said earlier, I think a lot of Americans, especially animal lovers and women (who are generally more empathetic than men) could never kill a cow or pig with their own two hands, yet they pay others to do that on a daily basis. And no, not simply because it’s messy or gross, but because a true animal lover would look the animal in the eye and have compassion rather than slit its throat just to have a snack.

1. I did not rephrase your words. I cut and pasted them.

2. I think the vast majority of Americans, animal lovers or not, would if it was their job, would be quite able to look an animal in the eye, and then slaughter the animal, however it is done, in order to feed people.

YOu know, since humans have been doing that since there WERE humans.

I think you’re underestimating how much people love animals. What you said doesn’t make much sense because most people wouldn’t take the job in the slaughterhouse in the first place. It is a known fact that people who work in slaughterhouses often end up with PTSD or other emotional problems. Which says a lot in and of itself. Just because some of you guys couldn’t care less doesn’t mean everyone else is like that.

For the vast majority of human history, and prehistory, humans hunted or raised animals, and then killed and ate them.

Animal loving, did not slow that down.

We’re living in a different world now. Most people do not kill animals for survival. Some might think they are, but as those quotes I posted earlier show, from a health standpoint, it is completely unnecessary. It’s done because of habit/ tradition/ taste.

Factory farms are filling up entire lagoons with animal waste (actual shit), contaminating groundwater, polluting rivers, polluting the air, causing people living nearby to be sick. An outrageous amount of rainforests are being destroyed continually, to make room for animal agriculture. Outrageous amounts of resources are being completely wasted, because of animal agriculture. It’s killing people and it’s killing the planet. I completely understand your position. I was there myself. But mark my words… The world is changing. A plant based diet is the future. Not only from a secular standpoint, as people are going vegan in droves, but also from a biblical standpoint.

Dude. You made a point, I responded to that point, and you just moved on to your next point


That is what a person does when, on some level, they know the shit they are spouting is shit.

YOu made the point about people being "animal lovers", and I crushed it.

You haven’t crushed anything and I’m amazed that you’re choosing to still be needlessly argumentative instead of having an actual discussion.

No, you deceptively reframed my point. I never, ever ever claimed that ANYTIME someone doesn’t want to look at something, they shouldn’t support that thing. That was what YOU tried to make my argument into. You took my very specific point about what goes on in the animal industries and then went and looked for other things to compare it to, in order to put forth your strawman argument. I told you that repeatedly, but since you refused to concede, I simply moved the discussion forward. Because maybe you think playing word games is more important than having an actual exchange of ideas, but I don’t have time for word games and dishonest debating.

As for people being animal lovers, neither of us can claim to know what is in the mind/heart of every single person out there. But based on the people I know and everything I have seen, I have no doubt that if people had to actually kill the cow or pig with their own hands, seeing the fear and terror in the animal’s eyes, hearing the screams and watching it desperately struggle for its life as his throat is slit, a hell of a lot more people would be vegetarian. You’re free to disagree with that.

Time will tell, because that is one of the biggest reasons people go vegan. Because they realize that they could never kill the animal themselves in good conscience, when it’s completely unnecessary, so it’s hypocritical to pay someone else to do it for them daily. As more people go vegan, you will see.

 

[buttercup]

Reality is sometimes ugly, but it’s better to know the truth and respond to it one way or the other, rather than perpetually live in dream world.
GRAPHIC VIDEO

Is there some brutality? Of course. However, I think you owe us an explanation of the video.

IT is clearly spliced to show the most horrific parts of animal slaughter. So, how old are most of those splices?

Have you been to a modern slaughterhouse? Things are done much more humanely in MOST places -- not all -- however, the fact that some people/companies are a bit barbaric in their manner of slaughter is no reason for Me, or any other omnivore, to stop eating.

Both My wife and middle daughter are vegan. They share recipes among themselves and search out vender that cater to the vegan lifestyle. They are not militant about it, Nor do they condemn those who are not vegan.

I, on the other hand, take a different approach to diet.

Of the three macronutrients, only two are essential to life.

Protein and Fat.

Carbohydrates are NOT essential to life. In fact, the human body can live a great deal longer and healthier on a no carb diet than they can on one loaded with useless carbs.

I get it that you don't like killing. Most people don't. Do NOT expect that your lifestyle choice is the right one for anyone but yourself.

It sounds like you’re a keto person, or paleo? I couldn’t disagree with you more. There may be short term advantages to keto, but in the long run it is terrible for the body, and dangerous. Of course fat is necessary, and I eat a lot of things like avocado, nuts, etc that add healthy fats to my diet. But eating things like bacon, fatty meat, etc has been proven to increase your risk for a heart attack and other health problems. I can’t stick around here much longer right now, but later when I have time I’ll get back to this and maybe post the words of doctors.

I get that people don’t want to give up meat. I really do. But I think it’s sad the lengths some people go to, to continue what they want to do. They always will point to certain studies, but what they don’t realize or want to acknowledge is that those studies are always funded by very industries who are trying to sell those products.

There is a lot of money in keeping people eating animal products. Not only for the meat and dairy industries, but for big pharma which is the next stop on the ugly cycle, when people end up with clogged arteries, diabetes, cancer, etc.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Dude. You made a point, I responded to that point, and you just moved on to your next point


That is what a person does when, on some level, they know the shit they are spouting is shit.

YOu made the point about people being "animal lovers", and I crushed it.

She's a girl, not a dude. She's hitting everything everyone's throwing at her, though. I appreciate stuff like that. I always root for the underdog.

 

[buttercup]

Dude. You made a point, I responded to that point, and you just moved on to your next point


That is what a person does when, on some level, they know the shit they are spouting is shit.

YOu made the point about people being "animal lovers", and I crushed it.

She's a girl, not a dude. She's hitting everything everyone's throwing at her, though. I appreciate stuff like that. I always root for the underdog.

Thank you!! And same here about being for the underdog. That is precisely why I’m vegan, and prolife.

 

[petro]

Your words


, to the point of refusing to look at it, yet not by the actual act or those industries overall."



So, you've dropped that argument, the moment you were called on it. Kind of shows that you were not serious about that argument to start with.


ANimals are not objects. They are animals.

Strawman. My argument was NEVER that anything people don’t want to see is something they shouldn’t support. That was your deceptive rephrasing of my argument.

And just to add to what I said earlier, I think a lot of Americans, especially animal lovers and women (who are generally more empathetic than men) could never kill a cow or pig with their own two hands, yet they pay others to do that on a daily basis. And no, not simply because it’s messy or gross, but because a true animal lover would look the animal in the eye and have compassion rather than slit its throat just to have a snack.

There was an episode of Anthony Bordain a couple seasons ago, where he participated in the slaughter of the village's night feast. You could see he didn't enjoy the experience, but he sure enjoyed those tasty lamb chops that night.

I never watched that show. But I heard about him… I heard he ate anything.

And drank everything.
Very interesting show. More about the cultures and politics of the areas he visits. Talks with the regular folks worldwide.
Worth a look see, if your ever bored. Of course you would have to put up with all the meat eating.

I have no interest in the food of the world, but regular folks world wide does sound interesting.

I was also amazed that despite it being a CNN production and that Bordain is basically a liberal. There was no preaching a specific agenda for the most part. Typically the political talk was of the country he was visiting and issue affecting that country. Usually light with plenty of booze flowing during filming. Very interesting episode was the Iran visit a couple seasons ago. Saw him on one also shooting guns with cowboys in Texas.

Guy actually came across as someone I would gladly have a few drinks with. Too bad he couldn't fight his demons.