The Vietnam War

[Sunni Man]

Next I blame the top military leadership, specifically General Westmoreland, for his out of touch strategy to win the war. ....

 

[Mindful]

There is a lot fake news about the war. Most people only know what Hollywood has told them.

The PBS series was terrible.

In a nutshell, the war was a terrible failure caused entirely by a corrupt political class. Of which, unfortunately, no one paid a price. As in all of America’s wars, the criminals who cause it seldom suffer any consequences, but the little people sure pay a high price.

Do you lay any fault on the French?

Of the Vietnamese governments themselves?

The war was caused by the Communists and fought by the Communists. They were brutal assholes that killed hundred of thousands of innocent Vietnamese.

The VC and and the NVA were the bad guys in that conflict. They were backed by the Soviets and the Chinese and they were brutal.

Do you have any idea how many Vietnamese, Cambodian, and Laotian civilians were killed by US forces and their allies?

Yes I do.

I also know from first hand experience how vicious murderers the Communists were.

That brutality was referred to. When they ate the Camp Commander's cat; and got found out.

 

[Flash]

In a nutshell, the war was a terrible failure caused entirely by a corrupt political class. Of which, unfortunately, no one paid a price. As in all of America’s wars, the criminals who cause it seldom suffer any consequences, but the little people sure pay a high price.

Do you lay any fault on the French?

Of the Vietnamese governments themselves?

The war was caused by the Communists and fought by the Communists. They were brutal assholes that killed hundred of thousands of innocent Vietnamese.

The VC and and the NVA were the bad guys in that conflict. They were backed by the Soviets and the Chinese and they were brutal.

Do you have any idea how many Vietnamese, Cambodian, and Laotian civilians were killed by US forces and their allies?

Yes I do.

I also know from first hand experience how vicious murderers the Communists were.

That brutality was referred to. When they ate the Camp Commander's cat; and got found out.

The NVA and VC were real assholes that had no problem with using the Vietnamese people as tools, shields, cannon fodder or hostages. They intimidated the people and taxed them and brutalized them and were pretty much scumbags. Not much different than Communists elsewhere in the world.

In the fall of 1968 I was on a little mission northwest of Saigon. We were working the 1st Infantry Division. We had a Vietnamese woman come up to us crying and screaming. She wanted us to go with her. She took us too a church. It was not only a church but an orphanage. It was run by Catholic nuns. Most of the children there were war orphans. The facility was supported by mostly American donations. The night before the VC had gone in and killed every child and every nun in the facility. The graffiti that the assholes left behind was a warning to not collaborate with the Americans.

 

[Mindful]

Do you lay any fault on the French?

Of the Vietnamese governments themselves?

The war was caused by the Communists and fought by the Communists. They were brutal assholes that killed hundred of thousands of innocent Vietnamese.

The VC and and the NVA were the bad guys in that conflict. They were backed by the Soviets and the Chinese and they were brutal.

Do you have any idea how many Vietnamese, Cambodian, and Laotian civilians were killed by US forces and their allies?

Yes I do.

I also know from first hand experience how vicious murderers the Communists were.

That brutality was referred to. When they ate the Camp Commander's cat; and got found out.

The NVA and VC were real assholes that had no problem with using the Vietnamese people as tools, shields, cannon fodder or hostages. They intimidated the people and taxed them and brutalized them and were pretty much scumbags. Not much different than Communists elsewhere in the world.

In the fall of 1968 I was on a little mission northwest of Saigon. We were working the 1st Infantry Division. We had a Vietnamese woman come up to us crying and screaming. She wanted us to go with her. She took us too a church. It was not only a church but an orphanage. It was run by Catholic nuns. Most of the children there were war orphans. The facility was supported by mostly American donations. The night before the VC had gone in and killed every child and every nun in the facility. The graffiti that the assholes left behind was a warning to not collaborate with the Americans.

I've noticed that the Vietnamese here in Europe (nail salons springing up around almost every corner, more than in America), are all Roman Catholics.

 

[Mindful]

Too late for the blame game.

I'm taken with the notion of fighting the ghost in the forest.[/QUOTE]
The Pentagon and even West Point have classes where they analyze and critique previous wars to help future military officers avoid the mistakes of the past.

I've heard you mention ghosts in the forrest twice in this thread. The VC and the NVA weren't ghosts, but were a very capable well trained enemy; and the land was mainly composed of rice paddy's and jungles. ...

Must you?

 

[Sunni Man]

Too late for the blame game.

I'm taken with the notion of fighting the ghost in the forest.

The Pentagon and even West Point have classes where they analyze and critique previous wars to help future military officers avoid the mistakes of the past.

I've heard you mention ghosts in the forrest twice in this thread. The VC and the NVA weren't ghosts, but were a very capable well trained enemy; and the land was mainly composed of rice paddy's and jungles. ...

 

[Picaro]

I'm watching it on PBS.

I'd like to talk about it. With someone.

We had the commies beat in 1968, but the media and other domestic commmies spun the war as a 'defeat' and kept hope alive among the commie vermin who wanted to turn the country into another slave colony and shithole. It did succeed in bankrupting the Soviets, and kept our allies in the SEATO org hopeful they wouldn't be overrun by Red China, the main reason we were there in the first place, contrary to what those infected with commie bullshit spin keep repeating about the war. By its end, the Soviets were too weak to take advantage of their new bases astride the major Asian trade routes. Since it wasn't a 'victory' like WW I or II, but just a police action in support of one side of a civil war, no parades and rah rah stuff, and not popular with a lot of spoiled middle and upper class Burb Brats at home, it gets a lot of undeserved bad press from commie friendly scum in academia and the media.

We achieved most of our important strategic goals, and the Soviets gained nothing and no longer had the resources to take advantage of their alleged 'victory', and Red China was relieved of a powerful Russian satellite on their flank in SE Asia, not to mention we likely stalled off a world war that would have begun between the Soviets and Mao at the time; most don't know about those tensions throughout the 1950's-1970's.

In any case, it greatly hastened the collapse of the Soviet Union, along with the Israeli victories in the ME, causing rifts between the Arab states and the Soviets, and assorted successes in Africa, all of which shut down completely Khrushchev's and Breznev's imperialist Doctrine, and left the SU a hollowed out hulk, dependent on western wheat and refined petroleum imports. The oil embargo hurt them badly, much worse than us , though it was a fake 'crisis' and an easily implemented hit on the Soviet economy after the Istraeli victories soured the animals on Soviet support. Arabs are always blaming others for their stupid mistakes and their armies degenerating into roving mobs of looters almost from the word 'go' when they decide to invade somebody or other.

As for the silly claims of 'deaths', they were insignificant in the scheme of things; just check out the deaths in the U.S. from drunk driving wrecks over the same period; drunks in America killed and crippled far more the war did, and killed as many as 50,000-60,000 in one frigging year, so as far as wars go it was pretty light as far as war casualties go. OF course most of those who like to cite them rarely do so out any genuine concern for human life, they're just posturing frauds faking some sort of 'higher moral authority' for themselves, is all. They're fine with massive death tolls elsewhere, when their pets commit them, of course.

 

[Sunni Man]

Must you?

You ask for veterans opinions.

Then you get offended when corrected about various issues concerning the war. ...

 

[Mindful]

Too late for the blame game.

I'm taken with the notion of fighting the ghost in the forest.

The Pentagon and even West Point have classes where they analyze and critique previous wars to help future military officers avoid the mistakes of the past.

I've heard you mention ghosts in the forrest twice in this thread. The VC and the NVA weren't ghosts, but were a very capable well trained enemy; and the land was mainly composed of rice paddy's and jungles. ...

I'll mention it three times, four, if you'd like.

That phrase was mentioned by an ex soldier who had actually participated in that war. It summed up, for me, the impossibility of fighting an enemy you couldn't recognise or identify. The kind that embeddied itself within communities of men women and children.

Similar to certain practices of today. But we won't go there. It might start you off.

 

[Mindful]

Must you?

You ask for veterans opinions.

Then you get offended when corrected about various issues concerning the war. ...

Offended? Did you say something?

 

[litman]

Since I was in the army during he Viet Nam war I will come down on the side of it was a stupid war and another war that was run stupidly. But here is what turned me against the war. Now I did not have to go to viet nam but I was serving at the time. I went on one hell of a lot of funeral details. but it was the time that we were far down in the south and we were burying a black man who came home in a plastic bag.
When the Lt. handed her the flag she said that " I hope that the life of my young son and the other young men have died to do some good and have not died in Vain'. There was not one soldier their that believed that her son's death was justified. That nothing good would come out of that war. So I like Kerry after I got out of the service I then protested the war. I might add that I never in all the times I went from one end of this county to the other was I ever disrespected while I was in uniform.

 

[Picaro]

And, as far as the criticism of LBJ goes for his 'micro-managing the war', they can blame the military and pols for that, via their constant lying about what was working and what was not, which made it easy for the commies to have a field day bashing the U.S.; Johnson couldn't trust anybody at the Pentagon or in his own Democratic Party; pretty much anybody would done the same thing at that point.

 

[Picaro]

I might add that I never in all the times I went from one end of this county to the other was I ever disrespected while I was in uniform.

I never saw any of that either; that is another myth that got lied about constantly, the 'spitting on vets' rubbish.Many vets ended up hanging out with the hippies when they got back from there, in fact. The only documented incidences of vets getting spit on was at the Miami Republican Convention, when William Buckley's YAF halfwits spit on veterans marching in the war protest parade there. Right wing dumbasses are just as big on stupid propaganda lies as left wing commie run media is.

 

[Picaro]

Too late for the blame game.

I'm taken with the notion of fighting the ghost in the forest.

The Pentagon and even West Point have classes where they analyze and critique previous wars to help future military officers avoid the mistakes of the past.

I've heard you mention ghosts in the forrest twice in this thread. The VC and the NVA weren't ghosts, but were a very capable well trained enemy; and the land was mainly composed of rice paddy's and jungles. ...

That's true, they do, and they also point out how stupid it was to constantly lie to the press and the people, only to have it shown they were blatantly lying, as the spin doctors at the Pentagon were doing at the time, as was McNamara. IF they hadn't have done that, we wouldn't be hearing the BS about how 'it was all big giant failure' idiocy we are supposed to run around repeating today. It wasn't anywhere that. The South Vietnamese lost, and they lost largely because Congress stopped funding them rather suddenly, in 1975.

 

[Sunni Man]

That phrase was mentioned by an ex soldier who had actually participated in that war. It summed up, for me, the impossibility of fighting an enemy you couldn't recognise or identify. The kind that embeddied itself within communities of men women and children.
Similar to certain practices of today. But we won't go there. It might start you off.

You have a very nasty condescending attitude. ...

Anyway, the enemy can be broken down into two categories.

The VC were your typical guerrilla fighters who could easily blend in with the surrounding civilian population.

Whereas, the NVA were highly trained soldiers who wore military uniforms. ...

 

[Mindful]

That phrase was mentioned by an ex soldier who had actually participated in that war. It summed up, for me, the impossibility of fighting an enemy you couldn't recognise or identify. The kind that embeddied itself within communities of men women and children.
Similar to certain practices of today. But we won't go there. It might start you off.

You have a very nasty condescending attitude. ...

The VC were your typical guerrilla fighters who could easily blend in with the surrounding civilian population.

Whereas, the NVA were highly trained soldiers who wore military uniforms. ...

Don't you criticise your cultural superiors.

 

[Mindful]

That phrase was mentioned by an ex soldier who had actually participated in that war. It summed up, for me, the impossibility of fighting an enemy you couldn't recognise or identify. The kind that embeddied itself within communities of men women and children.
Similar to certain practices of today. But we won't go there. It might start you off.

You have a very nasty condescending attitude. ...

The VC were your typical guerrilla fighters who could easily blend in with the surrounding civilian population.

Whereas, the NVA were highly trained soldiers who wore military uniforms. ...

You think I don't know that?

 

[Sunni Man]

Don't you criticise your cultural superiors.

I haven't seen anyone here who fits that label. ....

 

[Sunni Man]

You think I don't know that?

From what I've observed reading your posts.

You don't know much. ...

 

[Mindful]

You think I don't know that?

From what I've observed reading your posts.

You don't know much. ...

Don't worry about it.

In fact, I don't know anything