The Vietnam War

[Mindful]

Don't you criticise your cultural superiors.

I haven't seen anyone here who fits that label. ....

 

[Picaro]

Too late for the blame game.

I'm taken with the notion of fighting the ghost in the forest.

The Pentagon and even West Point have classes where they analyze and critique previous wars to help future military officers avoid the mistakes of the past.

I've heard you mention ghosts in the forrest twice in this thread. The VC and the NVA weren't ghosts, but were a very capable well trained enemy; and the land was mainly composed of rice paddy's and jungles. ...

I'll mention it three times, four, if you'd like.

That phrase was mentioned by an ex soldier who had actually participated in that war. It summed up, for me, the impossibility of fighting an enemy you couldn't recognise or identify. The kind that embeddied itself within communities of men women and children.

Similar to certain practices of today. But we won't go there. It might start you off.

Soldiers have opinions, and like most others they aren't any more 'right' than anybody else's when it comes to politics; most aren't educated in strategic thinking or even much tactical skill beyond the basics taught them in a few weeks of training.

 

[Picaro]

The VC were completely crushed in the failed TET offensive; the NVA and the North were in constant violation of the international laws regarding the demilitarized zone, along with the smuggling through Laos via the Ho Chi Minh Trail, yet no commie sympathizers ever said word one about any of that for year,s just sniveled about the U.S. and it's alleged 'illegal acts', which of course were not even remotely comparable to the VC or Ho's lot of scumbag thugs.

 

[Mindful]

Contribute something, why don't you, Kaykan?

Instead of sneaking around the forum, like a weasel.

Just say if you miss me. And I'll come back.

 

[Mindful]

The VC were completely crushed in the failed TET offensive; the NVA and the North were in constant violation of the international laws regarding the demilitarized zone, along with the smuggling through Laos via the Ho Chi Minh Trail, yet no commie sympathizers ever said word one about any of that for year,s just sniveled about the U.S. and it's alleged 'illegal acts', which of course were not even remotely comparable to the VC or Ho's lot of scumbag thugs.

IYO, do you think the PBS gave an accurate presentation of those events?

 

[LA RAM FAN]

A failed military escapade that cost 50,000 American lives.

Disgusting!

You can thank J Kennedy and L Johnson for that fiasco, not to mention Truman who should of told France to fuck off when Ho Chi asked for Vietnams freedom...France got their ass handed to them again, JFK sent in troops to see how bad, France bailed out, like the pussies they are, then LBJ went full war monger, so his military buddies could make billions while killing off young men, making his economy look better..

oh and dont forget Dick Nixon.He expanded the war his buddy LBJ started.

 

[Picaro]

The VC were completely crushed in the failed TET offensive; the NVA and the North were in constant violation of the international laws regarding the demilitarized zone, along with the smuggling through Laos via the Ho Chi Minh Trail, yet no commie sympathizers ever said word one about any of that for year,s just sniveled about the U.S. and it's alleged 'illegal acts', which of course were not even remotely comparable to the VC or Ho's lot of scumbag thugs.

IYO, do you think the PBS gave an accurate presentation of those events?

Absolutely not, not even close; the media and faux 'left's' distortions and heavily slanted propaganda has influenced most people's opinions, just as the same Soviet propaganda waves in Europe did. It also affected the European Left's support for Israel; almost overnight they switched to advocating genocide against them due to LBJ's support for them after France bailed on them. The Israelis rejected the Soviets overtures and went with the far less oppressive U.S. axis, no surprise since the Soviets were arming most of the Arab states and weren't trustworthy. In any case the faux 'Peace Left' both in Europe and the U.S. outdid themselves showing their Soviet Heroes what good little obedient tools they were by their 180 degree turn in 'policy'. They never die, certainly not in academia and allegedly 'educated' people.

It's not an opinion, but easily shown fact they distorted the war, with all the appeals to emotion and emphasis on the few U.S. 'atrocities' while completely ignoring any negativity re the commies and their imperialism and criminal acts.

Being Leftist and Anti-Semitic in Germany - Susanne Urban

The U.S. media looked up to Europe's, for some reason, probably based on the myth that 'Europeans are better educated and more sophisticated than us American hicks n stuff' BS. The same pattern happened here. Long after the Cold War was over, we still see most of the stupid memes still being repeated by dope addled morons on the left and even on the right as well.

 

[Flash]

 

[Flash]

A failed military escapade that cost 50,000 American lives.

Disgusting!

You can thank J Kennedy and L Johnson for that fiasco, not to mention Truman who should of told France to fuck off when Ho Chi asked for Vietnams freedom...France got their ass handed to them again, JFK sent in troops to see how bad, France bailed out, like the pussies they are, then LBJ went full war monger, so his military buddies could make billions while killing off young men, making his economy look better..

oh and dont forget Dick Nixon.He expanded the war his buddy LBJ started.

Bullshit!!!!!

You know nothing. It looks like the only thing you know about the war is what you saw in a movie or read on some anti war protestor's placard.

Nixon withdrew the combat troops from Vietnam and forced the commies into a peace agreement.

When I got sent over in 1967 I was part of LBJs buildup. When I left in 1970 I was part of Nixon's draw down.

 

[Picaro]

A failed military escapade that cost 50,000 American lives.

Disgusting!

You can thank J Kennedy and L Johnson for that fiasco, not to mention Truman who should of told France to fuck off when Ho Chi asked for Vietnams freedom...France got their ass handed to them again, JFK sent in troops to see how bad, France bailed out, like the pussies they are, then LBJ went full war monger, so his military buddies could make billions while killing off young men, making his economy look better..

oh and dont forget Dick Nixon.He expanded the war his buddy LBJ started.

Bullshit!!!!!

You know nothing. It looks like the only thing you know about the war is what you saw in a movie or read on some anti war protestor's placard.

Nixon withdrew the combat troops from Vietnam and forced the commies into a peace agreement.

When I got sent over in 1967 I was part of LBJs buildup. When I left in 1970 I was part of Nixon's draw down.

Without the bombing, as well as the supposedly 'illegal' actions in Cambodia and Laos, they would never have come to the table. As it was, they left our allies alone, with only their fellow criminal mass murderer Pol Pot's country to play with; and even there the Vietnamese put a crimp in their one gain.

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

My Mothers Father, my Father and two Uncles served in Vietnam. Everyone of them volunteered.

 

[whitehall]

LBJ sent Troops to Vietnam on a faked bogus "crisis". The knee jerk media backed him at first like they back all democrats and he set the rules so that the U.S. could win every battle and still lose the war. Just when it seemed that the strategy of wearing down the V.C. might be working, LBJ quit the effort and gave General Giap breathing room and recruiting opportunities. Meanwhile unelected and unappointed clerks in the CIA were in charge and the Generals stood back and took the flack.

Wow! Revisionist bs!

It was the media that exposed his deceit . and he was still a great man and a great president

and facts are it was the CIA that warned about a losing battle to win the war,.

get yer facts straight troll man

It's no secret that the CIA was running the Vietnam war. How did it work out? I don't get the part where the media allegedly exposed LBJ's deceit? As I recall the media blamed the whole thing on Nixon.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

LBJ sent Troops to Vietnam on a faked bogus "crisis". The knee jerk media backed him at first like they back all democrats and he set the rules so that the U.S. could win every battle and still lose the war. Just when it seemed that the strategy of wearing down the V.C. might be working, LBJ quit the effort and gave General Giap breathing room and recruiting opportunities. Meanwhile unelected and unappointed clerks in the CIA were in charge and the Generals stood back and took the flack.

Wow! Revisionist bs!

It was the media that exposed his deceit . and he was still a great man and a great president

and facts are it was the CIA that warned about a losing battle to win the war,.

get yer facts straight troll man

It's no secret that the CIA was running the Vietnam war. How did it work out? I don't get the part where the media allegedly exposed LBJ's deceit? As I recall the media blamed the whole thing on Nixon.

Careful now, I voted for Nixon Twice. I got a short tour in my 70 to 71 tour, came back in 72 for 3 months and then again in 73 for 3 months to "Train the Natives". We left in 73 on request of one of the Governments. But without those Linebackers and our efforts behind the scenes NV would never have gone back to the Paris Peace Talks. What erks me is we gave away the whole bleeding Orphanage not just the baby in that process. And that Chicken Shit Ford didn't follow up on the promises Nixon had made SV for those supplies like fuel, ammo, guns, etc. if the North attacked. The north attacked with 550,000 troops. The South had an Army of 1.3 million. The problem was, the South had enough guns to arm about 400,000 of their troops with only one loaded magazine each, they were out of artillery shells, no gas for their trucks, tanks or planes, not enough food, etc.. Those supplies that were promised never came. You can't fight a well equipped and battle hardened army like the NVA with pitchforks and week whackers. I knew it was over when I saw on the news Saigon being attacked by a F-5 with a red star on it.

 

[Flash]

A failed military escapade that cost 50,000 American lives.

Disgusting!

You can thank J Kennedy and L Johnson for that fiasco, not to mention Truman who should of told France to fuck off when Ho Chi asked for Vietnams freedom...France got their ass handed to them again, JFK sent in troops to see how bad, France bailed out, like the pussies they are, then LBJ went full war monger, so his military buddies could make billions while killing off young men, making his economy look better..

oh and dont forget Dick Nixon.He expanded the war his buddy LBJ started.

Bullshit!!!!!

You know nothing. It looks like the only thing you know about the war is what you saw in a movie or read on some anti war protestor's placard.

Nixon withdrew the combat troops from Vietnam and forced the commies into a peace agreement.

When I got sent over in 1967 I was part of LBJs buildup. When I left in 1970 I was part of Nixon's draw down.

Without the bombing, as well as the supposedly 'illegal' actions in Cambodia and Laos, they would never have come to the table. As it was, they left our allies alone, with only their fellow criminal mass murderer Pol Pot's country to play with; and even there the Vietnamese put a crimp in their one gain.

You are confuse. That is what happens when you get history lessons from Hollywood and the Libtard press.

LBJ had this stupid idea of of fighting the war in South Vietnam on the Commie's terms. That resulted in tens of thousands more casualties than there should have been.

Nixon essentially withdrew the American combat troops from South Vietnam and took the war to the fucking commies. Yes that included stopping the the supplies from coming down the HCM Trail in Laos and Cambodia and that was a good thing. He also bombed the shit out of the north and that was a good thing.

It forced the assholes to give up and sign the Paris Peace Accords, which should have been the end of the war with the South remaining sovereign.

Good plan until the shithead Democrats, aided by a few weak minded Republicans, passed that filthy ass Case Church bill to defund military aid to the South. That was a green light for the North to resume the war and they did. Big time.

Another great example of how the Democrats fuck up everything. They couldn't stand the idea of the Communists losing and handed them the victory that they could not get on the battlefield. The deaths in the killing fields of Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam are all on the hands of the Democrats that didn't have the courage to do the right thing. Shame on them!

 

[Daryl Hunt]

A failed military escapade that cost 50,000 American lives.

Disgusting!

You can thank J Kennedy and L Johnson for that fiasco, not to mention Truman who should of told France to fuck off when Ho Chi asked for Vietnams freedom...France got their ass handed to them again, JFK sent in troops to see how bad, France bailed out, like the pussies they are, then LBJ went full war monger, so his military buddies could make billions while killing off young men, making his economy look better..

oh and dont forget Dick Nixon.He expanded the war his buddy LBJ started.

Bullshit!!!!!

You know nothing. It looks like the only thing you know about the war is what you saw in a movie or read on some anti war protestor's placard.

Nixon withdrew the combat troops from Vietnam and forced the commies into a peace agreement.

When I got sent over in 1967 I was part of LBJs buildup. When I left in 1970 I was part of Nixon's draw down.

Without the bombing, as well as the supposedly 'illegal' actions in Cambodia and Laos, they would never have come to the table. As it was, they left our allies alone, with only their fellow criminal mass murderer Pol Pot's country to play with; and even there the Vietnamese put a crimp in their one gain.

You are confuse. That is what happens when you get history lessons from Hollywood and the Libtard press.

LBJ had this stupid idea of of fighting the war in South Vietnam on the Commie's terms. That resulted in tens of thousands more casualties than there should have been.

Nixon essentially withdrew the American combat troops from South Vietnam and took the war to the fucking commies. Yes that included stopping the the supplies from coming down the HCM Trail in Laos and Cambodia and that was a good thing. He also bombed the shit out of the north and that was a good thing.

It forced the assholes to give up and sign the Paris Peace Accords, which should have been the end of the war with the South remaining sovereign.

Good plan until the shithead Democrats, aided by a few weak minded Republicans, passed that filthy ass Case Church bill to defund military aid to the South. That was a green light for the North to resume the war and they did. Big time.

Another great example of how the Democrats fuck up everything. They couldn't stand the idea of the Communists losing and handed them the victory that they could not get on the battlefield. The deaths in the killing fields of Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam are all on the hands of the Democrats that didn't have the courage to do the right thing. Shame on them!

If Ford had grown a pair, he had the power to transfer those supplies that were already stockpiled and paid for in Thailand to the South Vietnamese. The Whole Damned Country earned my disgust on this one, not just one party.

 

[JBvM]

LBJ sent Troops to Vietnam on a faked bogus "crisis". The knee jerk media backed him at first like they back all democrats and he set the rules so that the U.S. could win every battle and still lose the war. Just when it seemed that the strategy of wearing down the V.C. might be working, LBJ quit the effort and gave General Giap breathing room and recruiting opportunities. Meanwhile unelected and unappointed clerks in the CIA were in charge and the Generals stood back and took the flack.

Wow! Revisionist bs!

It was the media that exposed his deceit . and he was still a great man and a great president

and facts are it was the CIA that warned about a losing battle to win the war,.

get yer facts straight troll man

It's no secret that the CIA was running the Vietnam war. How did it work out? I don't get the part where the media allegedly exposed LBJ's deceit? As I recall the media blamed the whole thing on Nixon.

your recollections are faulty. you should get a check up

The war in Vietnam was run by the Defense dept, and Robert McNamara was not second fiddle to cia

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Next I blame the top military leadership, specifically General Westmoreland, for his out of touch strategy to win the war. ....

When Nixon took over, he replace Westmoreland with Abrams. It's on record where Abrams Aide asked what he should do and Abrams answered back, "Do what you have to do". The war changed in late 1969 or early 1970 and we started winning for a change instead of just trading real estate.

One in 200 NVA resupply transport got through

The Railroad from China was bombed daily (LBJ was afraid that might get us into a war with China. Nixon didn't care. When the Chinese complained that they were losing Railroad workers it fell on deaf ears.

Dams were put out of commission

Power Plants were put out of commission

Under LBJ and Westmoreland our bombers and fighters flew the same race tracks at the same time each day and all the NVA had to do was concentrate their AA and Sams along those tracks for maximum effect. Under Nixon and Abrams, our Air Power was no longer predicable. And the losses went way, way down and the damage went way, way up. I consider LBJ, McNamara and Westmoreland murderers. WWII and Korea were never flown that way. It was planned murder.

The Lao Hill People were trained and equipped and fought the NVA to a standstill. After 1973, there was a regime change in Laos and the hill people were hunted as criminals. The same Regime that asked the ground support and training personnel and the Ravens to leave.

In late 1969, the AC-130 Specter was introduced out of Ubon, RTAB and it teamed up with the B-57Gs. The 57s hit the Ho Chi Min trail during the day and Specter hit it at night. Meaning, the night transports were almost completely stopped.

The main North Vietnam Ports were mined which stopped sea trading so they lost the rails and the sea. Like the Chinese, the Russians complained and it fell on deaf ears.

Abrams was asked if it was safe to be in South Vietnam in 1971. He said he was confident that he could fly anywhere in South Vietnam and take zero fire from the ground. By the middle of 1972, the war was actually won. The News reported otherwise. Linebacker II was the crowning moment to get them back to the Paris Peace Talks. We were slowly turning the southern portion of North Vietnam into a pock filled parking lot and there was nothing they could do about it.

Then came the final Paris Peace Talks. We allowed the NVA to keep it's stockpiles in Laos and Cambodia and build up there, stopped sending replenish supplies to the South even though they were warehoused and paid for in Thailand, pulled out most of our troops and good equipment. For crying out loud, those of us that were there knew the war was won until that happened. It took the NVA 2 years to build back up while the South was more worried about where it's next meal was coming from. Then in 1975, here the NVA came well equipped and well motivated. You can't have a larger force armed with pitch forks and rakes and fight a well armed smaller force armed with modern weapons. Yes, good old Uncle Walter reported it wrong after 1969, Congress was too worried about their friggin jobs to do what was right and Ford was a complet moron.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

LBJ sent Troops to Vietnam on a faked bogus "crisis". The knee jerk media backed him at first like they back all democrats and he set the rules so that the U.S. could win every battle and still lose the war. Just when it seemed that the strategy of wearing down the V.C. might be working, LBJ quit the effort and gave General Giap breathing room and recruiting opportunities. Meanwhile unelected and unappointed clerks in the CIA were in charge and the Generals stood back and took the flack.

Wow! Revisionist bs!

It was the media that exposed his deceit . and he was still a great man and a great president

and facts are it was the CIA that warned about a losing battle to win the war,.

get yer facts straight troll man

It's no secret that the CIA was running the Vietnam war. How did it work out? I don't get the part where the media allegedly exposed LBJ's deceit? As I recall the media blamed the whole thing on Nixon.

Whitehall, where the hell did you get that from? You been watching Air America again? Nice Fiction that they sprinkles some facts so that Rubes might believe it.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

A failed military escapade that cost 50,000 American lives.

Disgusting!

You can thank J Kennedy and L Johnson for that fiasco, not to mention Truman who should of told France to fuck off when Ho Chi asked for Vietnams freedom...France got their ass handed to them again, JFK sent in troops to see how bad, France bailed out, like the pussies they are, then LBJ went full war monger, so his military buddies could make billions while killing off young men, making his economy look better..

oh and dont forget Dick Nixon.He expanded the war his buddy LBJ started.

Bullshit!!!!!

You know nothing. It looks like the only thing you know about the war is what you saw in a movie or read on some anti war protestor's placard.

Nixon withdrew the combat troops from Vietnam and forced the commies into a peace agreement.

When I got sent over in 1967 I was part of LBJs buildup. When I left in 1970 I was part of Nixon's draw down.

Without the bombing, as well as the supposedly 'illegal' actions in Cambodia and Laos, they would never have come to the table. As it was, they left our allies alone, with only their fellow criminal mass murderer Pol Pot's country to play with; and even there the Vietnamese put a crimp in their one gain.

It was only illegal if the Marines, Army, Navy or CG did it. Hint, Hint. Wink Wink

 

[Likkmee]

A failed military escapade that cost 50,000 American lives.

Disgusting!

Lets not forget the over 1 million mostly innocent hillbilly Vietnamese like the ones " "Maverick' McCain bombed at a light bulb factory when they shot the arrogant fucker down and stuck his dumb ass in a dog kennel.