The United States of Inequality! Trying to make unequal things equal.

[cutter]

But their will never be fair treatment or opportunity when there are so many different people with different beliefs and/or views.

So, one should stop trying to make the playing field level?

A banana republic isn't good even for the bananas.

Even with a level playing field some people refuse to put forth the effort to get off the bench and in the game

 

[ThatDude30]

When you have to check which race you are, your age, your sex, your income, your experience, your reason why, then maybe just maybe America would be heading towards equality.

There cant be equality within freedom. We might all be equal in America when it come to freedom but when everyone has their own freedom of choice and beliefs there will never be equality in America.

 

[ThatDude30]

Equal opportunity

The United States of Inequality! Trying to make unequal things equal.

No, America is not trying to make unequal things equal--Democrats are. Republicans believe in making opportunity equal. Results are the outcome of exercising such opportunities.

There will never be equality in America. You cannot have freedom and equality.

And why not? There may never be outcome equality, but there is opportunity equality. If not, give me an example of why not.

We are all entitled to no charge primary education.
We are all capable of acquiring advanced education.
We are all guaranteed equality in seeking employment.
We are all capable of investing our money instead of spending it.
We are all capable of not having a family or having a family only when financial stability is acquired.
We are all capable of moving to where the most opportunity exists.

"People say it's unfair to move ahead because it means leaving others behind. Well...that's the idea of moving ahead. If we all moved ahead the same distance at the same time, then nobody gets ahead."
Andrew Wilkow

Equal opportunity for all is a myth.

Therein lies the problem with the idea of equal opportunity for all. Some people are simply better placed to take advantage of opportunity. - Deborah Orr

Someone having to work harder for an opportunity then another is not equal opportunity.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Equal opportunity

The United States of Inequality! Trying to make unequal things equal.

No, America is not trying to make unequal things equal--Democrats are. Republicans believe in making opportunity equal. Results are the outcome of exercising such opportunities.

There will never be equality in America. You cannot have freedom and equality.

And why not? There may never be outcome equality, but there is opportunity equality. If not, give me an example of why not.

We are all entitled to no charge primary education.
We are all capable of acquiring advanced education.
We are all guaranteed equality in seeking employment.
We are all capable of investing our money instead of spending it.
We are all capable of not having a family or having a family only when financial stability is acquired.
We are all capable of moving to where the most opportunity exists.

"People say it's unfair to move ahead because it means leaving others behind. Well...that's the idea of moving ahead. If we all moved ahead the same distance at the same time, then nobody gets ahead."
Andrew Wilkow

Equal opportunity for all is a myth.

Therein lies the problem with the idea of equal opportunity for all. Some people are simply better placed to take advantage of opportunity. - Deborah Orr

Someone having to work harder for an opportunity then another is not equal opportunity.

How so? You don't have to work harder to obtain an opportunity, you just need to take advantage of the opportunities you have available to you. How hard you work doesn't come before opportunity--it comes after you seize opportunity.

Give me an example of two people of the same caliber where one would have to work harder than another.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The United States of Inequality! Trying to make unequal things equal.

No, America is not trying to make unequal things equal--Democrats are. Republicans believe in making opportunity equal. Results are the outcome of exercising such opportunities.

There will never be equality in America. You cannot have freedom and equality.

And why not? There may never be outcome equality, but there is opportunity equality. If not, give me an example of why not.

We are all entitled to no charge primary education.
We are all capable of acquiring advanced education.
We are all guaranteed equality in seeking employment.
We are all capable of investing our money instead of spending it.
We are all capable of not having a family or having a family only when financial stability is acquired.
We are all capable of moving to where the most opportunity exists.

"People say it's unfair to move ahead because it means leaving others behind. Well...that's the idea of moving ahead. If we all moved ahead the same distance at the same time, then nobody gets ahead."
Andrew Wilkow

We are not guaranteed equality in seeking employment. Being capable of acquiring advanced education is not an equal opportunity for advanced education when the cost of education varies from person to person. Capable is not equal.

When there is a slight chance of being equal, when filling out any paper work does not require to check which race you are.

What does race have to do with being equal? Do they ask for your race when getting a job? Getting an education? Applying for government assistance?

Yes, you are guaranteed equality when seeking employment. You are not to be discriminated against because of race, religion, gender, or political affiliation.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

In America, there are other issues that need to achieve equality before there will ever be equal opportunities, treatment, or justice.
'
Material and income is a sign of status. With different statuses you can not have equality.

In that instance you are referring to equal outcome. That's not what we are talking about here.

 

[ThatDude30]

The United States of Inequality! Trying to make unequal things equal.

No, America is not trying to make unequal things equal--Democrats are. Republicans believe in making opportunity equal. Results are the outcome of exercising such opportunities.

There will never be equality in America. You cannot have freedom and equality.

And why not? There may never be outcome equality, but there is opportunity equality. If not, give me an example of why not.

We are all entitled to no charge primary education.
We are all capable of acquiring advanced education.
We are all guaranteed equality in seeking employment.
We are all capable of investing our money instead of spending it.
We are all capable of not having a family or having a family only when financial stability is acquired.
We are all capable of moving to where the most opportunity exists.

"People say it's unfair to move ahead because it means leaving others behind. Well...that's the idea of moving ahead. If we all moved ahead the same distance at the same time, then nobody gets ahead."
Andrew Wilkow

As I said before, when filling out an application for employment, benefits, government assistance, medical, education, etc having to check which race you are, what gender you are, your age, and/or your income that is not equal opportunity. Equal opportunity for all would not require any of that information. Your race and age makes sense when it comes to medical, but why is income necessary for medical? For the reason to pay cost. Equal opportunity for employment wouldn't require your race, gender, or any other personal info not even experience.

Example. when I was 21 years old me and my best friend who was also 21 and I'm just 1 day older decided to get a place and be room mates. We had the same job, made the same pay, made the hours worked the same shifts. So our pay checks were literally the same(equal). We split all costs down the middle suck as rent, utilities etc. The only difference was I had a car payment and car insurance and he didn't. We both went to the welfare office to apply for food stamps. On the application it asked for race, gender, age, income etc. Me and my friend had the same answer for each question except for race I'm white he is black and I have an additional expense of a car loan and insurance payment. How does he get approved for $200 a month in food stamps and I get approved for $0? The only difference was our race and I had 2 extra expenses. How is that equal opportunity?

Entitled, capable, and guaranteed is not equal.
Not everyone is equal or has equal opportunity for anything you said. Capable of acquiring advanced education is not equal when one may have to pay and another doesn't, when one can afford it and when another cant. Equal opportunity for advanced education would mean everyone could afford it or it was free for everyone. investing our money instead of spending it is a choice(freedom) not equality. Having a family or not has nothing to do with equal opportunity. Guaranteed equality when seeking employment? Are you serious? Until discrimination, stereo typing, and racism is absent there will never be guaranteed equality when seeking employment let alone equal opportunity for all. They say that but that's a bunch of bull.

 

[ThatDude30]

The United States of Inequality! Trying to make unequal things equal.

No, America is not trying to make unequal things equal--Democrats are. Republicans believe in making opportunity equal. Results are the outcome of exercising such opportunities.

There will never be equality in America. You cannot have freedom and equality.

And why not? There may never be outcome equality, but there is opportunity equality. If not, give me an example of why not.

We are all entitled to no charge primary education.
We are all capable of acquiring advanced education.
We are all guaranteed equality in seeking employment.
We are all capable of investing our money instead of spending it.
We are all capable of not having a family or having a family only when financial stability is acquired.
We are all capable of moving to where the most opportunity exists.

"People say it's unfair to move ahead because it means leaving others behind. Well...that's the idea of moving ahead. If we all moved ahead the same distance at the same time, then nobody gets ahead."
Andrew Wilkow

We are not guaranteed equality in seeking employment. Being capable of acquiring advanced education is not an equal opportunity for advanced education when the cost of education varies from person to person. Capable is not equal.

When there is a slight chance of being equal, when filling out any paper work does not require to check which race you are.

What does race have to do with being equal? Do they ask for your race when getting a job? Getting an education? Applying for government assistance?

Yes, you are guaranteed equality when seeking employment. You are not to be discriminated against because of race, religion, gender, or political affiliation.

Lol you really think that employers do not discriminate? It might be a law or what they say but whose to say that person who has the decision to hire or not to hire you isn't racist or sexist? Or think your a bad guy because of your tattoos? What if They are a democrat and out of curiosity in conversation you get asked which are you and you say republican? What if they are atheist and you are catholic? To say you are not to be discriminated against does not mean you wont. They wont tell they will come up with a "legit" reason why or why not, but they wont tell you the reason of why or why not is because they are sexist against women or men, racist against white or black, whether its because your catholic or jew, or whether your democrat or republican.

That is not equal opportunity.

 

[ThatDude30]

equal opportunity, equal justice, equal as a citizen and the bill of rights for all...

not clones

There isn't equal opportunities or justice in America.

Nonsense.

There are married same-sex couples in Alabama who prove you wrong.

Of course, conservatives are making an effort to perpetuate injustice and inequality.

Lol Damn my bad.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The United States of Inequality! Trying to make unequal things equal.

No, America is not trying to make unequal things equal--Democrats are. Republicans believe in making opportunity equal. Results are the outcome of exercising such opportunities.

There will never be equality in America. You cannot have freedom and equality.

And why not? There may never be outcome equality, but there is opportunity equality. If not, give me an example of why not.

We are all entitled to no charge primary education.
We are all capable of acquiring advanced education.
We are all guaranteed equality in seeking employment.
We are all capable of investing our money instead of spending it.
We are all capable of not having a family or having a family only when financial stability is acquired.
We are all capable of moving to where the most opportunity exists.

"People say it's unfair to move ahead because it means leaving others behind. Well...that's the idea of moving ahead. If we all moved ahead the same distance at the same time, then nobody gets ahead."
Andrew Wilkow

We are not guaranteed equality in seeking employment. Being capable of acquiring advanced education is not an equal opportunity for advanced education when the cost of education varies from person to person. Capable is not equal.

When there is a slight chance of being equal, when filling out any paper work does not require to check which race you are.

What does race have to do with being equal? Do they ask for your race when getting a job? Getting an education? Applying for government assistance?

Yes, you are guaranteed equality when seeking employment. You are not to be discriminated against because of race, religion, gender, or political affiliation.

Lol you really think that employers do not discriminate? It might be a law or what they say but whose to say that person who has the decision to hire or not to hire you isn't racist or sexist? Or think your a bad guy because of your tattoos? What if They are a democrat and out of curiosity in conversation you get asked which are you and you say republican? What if they are atheist and you are catholic? To say you are not to be discriminated against does not mean you wont. They wont tell they will come up with a "legit" reason why or why not, but they wont tell you the reason of why or why not is because they are sexist against women or men, racist against white or black, whether its because your catholic or jew, or whether your democrat or republican.

That is not equal opportunity.

If anybody experiences such instances they are welcome to challenge. Do you know the favorite color an employer has? Do you know the favorite gender of an employer? Do you know the favorite religion of an employer? The answer is green.

Yes, the employee that can produce the most green for the employer is that employers favorite employee. They are not running social club, they are running a business. In business, you don't become successful by choosing less than the best quality of applicant for the job. The only thing an employer cares about is getting the most productive crew behind him. The more productivity, the more successful the employer.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The United States of Inequality! Trying to make unequal things equal.

No, America is not trying to make unequal things equal--Democrats are. Republicans believe in making opportunity equal. Results are the outcome of exercising such opportunities.

There will never be equality in America. You cannot have freedom and equality.

And why not? There may never be outcome equality, but there is opportunity equality. If not, give me an example of why not.

We are all entitled to no charge primary education.
We are all capable of acquiring advanced education.
We are all guaranteed equality in seeking employment.
We are all capable of investing our money instead of spending it.
We are all capable of not having a family or having a family only when financial stability is acquired.
We are all capable of moving to where the most opportunity exists.

"People say it's unfair to move ahead because it means leaving others behind. Well...that's the idea of moving ahead. If we all moved ahead the same distance at the same time, then nobody gets ahead."
Andrew Wilkow

As I said before, when filling out an application for employment, benefits, government assistance, medical, education, etc having to check which race you are, what gender you are, your age, and/or your income that is not equal opportunity. Equal opportunity for all would not require any of that information. Your race and age makes sense when it comes to medical, but why is income necessary for medical? For the reason to pay cost. Equal opportunity for employment wouldn't require your race, gender, or any other personal info not even experience.

Example. when I was 21 years old me and my best friend who was also 21 and I'm just 1 day older decided to get a place and be room mates. We had the same job, made the same pay, made the hours worked the same shifts. So our pay checks were literally the same(equal). We split all costs down the middle suck as rent, utilities etc. The only difference was I had a car payment and car insurance and he didn't. We both went to the welfare office to apply for food stamps. On the application it asked for race, gender, age, income etc. Me and my friend had the same answer for each question except for race I'm white he is black and I have an additional expense of a car loan and insurance payment. How does he get approved for $200 a month in food stamps and I get approved for $0? The only difference was our race and I had 2 extra expenses. How is that equal opportunity?

Entitled, capable, and guaranteed is not equal.
Not everyone is equal or has equal opportunity for anything you said. Capable of acquiring advanced education is not equal when one may have to pay and another doesn't, when one can afford it and when another cant. Equal opportunity for advanced education would mean everyone could afford it or it was free for everyone. investing our money instead of spending it is a choice(freedom) not equality. Having a family or not has nothing to do with equal opportunity. Guaranteed equality when seeking employment? Are you serious? Until discrimination, stereo typing, and racism is absent there will never be guaranteed equality when seeking employment let alone equal opportunity for all. They say that but that's a bunch of bull.

It's been many years since I applied for a job, but the last time I did, we were less sensitive to race issues than we are today. But even if those questions are asked, the answers cannot be used against you (or anybody else) for consideration of the position.

Your reply begs several questions: Did you contact the people at the food stamp office and ask them why you and your black friend were treated differently? Did you ask to talk to his or her supervisor? Did you call your local news station and ask for an investigation? How about your Congressman or State Rep?

Government workers do not make judgement calls. They have set standards. Something tells me you are leaving out important circumstances between you and your friend; either you're not telling me to try and enforce your point, or you don't know something about your friend that you should have.

It's against the law for any employer to discriminate. Most if not all adhere to those standards to avoid public embarrassment, or otherwise don't want to risk the future of their company. No businessman would discriminate and risk losing his business because of it.

 

[Dragonlady]

You may not be aware of this Ray but there are ways to discriminate if you do choose. I didn’t know about them either until I went to work for a head hunting firm.

Let’s say you don’t want to hire Blacks. Some of our clients didn’t. We didn’t send them any black applicants. You can’t be accused of discrimination if no minoritied apply for the job. This is why employment agencies exist. To help employers weed out “unsuitable” candidates.

We had one client who only hired bright, blonde women under 30 years of age, and under 5’ 7” in height. The company owner was 5’ 8”. Let’s call it the Aryan Mining Company. All of the applicants we sent to that company fit this description. They weren’t sent any applicants who didn’t fit this description. If a cute 25 year old university graduate blonde came in, we called her a “Aryan Mines type”.

The company can’t be accused of racial discrimination since no blacks, Asians, brunettes or tall women ever applied for jobs there. All their applicants were short blonde white women. And just for the record, as a 5’ 11” brunette, I couldn’t get an interview with them even if I had wanted one.

 

[ThatDude30]

Equal opportunity

The United States of Inequality! Trying to make unequal things equal.

No, America is not trying to make unequal things equal--Democrats are. Republicans believe in making opportunity equal. Results are the outcome of exercising such opportunities.

There will never be equality in America. You cannot have freedom and equality.

And why not? There may never be outcome equality, but there is opportunity equality. If not, give me an example of why not.

We are all entitled to no charge primary education.
We are all capable of acquiring advanced education.
We are all guaranteed equality in seeking employment.
We are all capable of investing our money instead of spending it.
We are all capable of not having a family or having a family only when financial stability is acquired.
We are all capable of moving to where the most opportunity exists.

"People say it's unfair to move ahead because it means leaving others behind. Well...that's the idea of moving ahead. If we all moved ahead the same distance at the same time, then nobody gets ahead."
Andrew Wilkow

Equal opportunity for all is a myth.

Therein lies the problem with the idea of equal opportunity for all. Some people are simply better placed to take advantage of opportunity. - Deborah Orr

Someone having to work harder for an opportunity then another is not equal opportunity.

How so? You don't have to work harder to obtain an opportunity, you just need to take advantage of the opportunities you have available to you. How hard you work doesn't come before opportunity--it comes after you seize opportunity.

Give me an example of two people of the same caliber where one would have to work harder than another.

Ok Person A and Person B Both want to be a foreman in the construction field. Person A has a family with money and can afford to send him to a trade school so he can earn an associates degree in specialized technology for construction. Person B their family can not afford to pay to send them to a trade school to obtain an associates degree. Company B is the biggest construction company in their area. Person B applies for a job for the company and gets hired. Person A is going to a trade skill for 13 months to obtain their associates degree in specialized technology. Person Starts out doing the grunt work doing the jobs no one wants to do such as carrying big concrete slabs, retrieving tools, cleaning up etc. That company offers an apprenticeship program. The program is offered once a year and the capacity for the program maybe 3 employees. If Person B doesn't get in the program that year he has to wait a whole entire year longer. If he gets in this year he has to work full time 5 days a week and attend classes 2 nights a week for four years after the year he gets in to just become a journeyman. Person A goes to class then goes home plays video games and parties on the weekends while Person B is busting his butt. Person A gets his associates degree in 13 months and becomes a journeyman and gets paid real well. Person B after 13 months is still doing grunt work making 5-10 bucks less an hour than Person A and still has a 2 years and 11 months to get to journeyman.

Another example Person A has been working hard for 2 years at a job in hopes to get a management position that became available. The position goes up for grabs. Person A knows he is the hardest worker and has sonority and the most qualified for the job. 1 week later the company announces who got the job, Person A knows it has to be him. The company introduces Person B to fill the management position. Well Person Bs father is friends with the owner of the company. Person Bs father talked to the owner saying hey we go way back my son needs a job to learn responsibilities and needs to start learning how to make a living but has no job experience. He knows Microsoft word, excel, powerpoint, he can type 100 words per minute, trust me we go way back he is perfect for the management position. I promise you he wont let you down or drinks on me for a month. The owner goes you know what? If hes anything like his father he shouldn't have a problem. Person A has 2 years experience and knows the management of the company. Person B has never worked a day in his life. Person A is the most qualified for the position.
Equal opportunity in this case would be everyone having opportunity to apply(compete) for the position. Then Applications should be judged on their merits with procedures designed to identify those best qualified. Then the applicant most qualified is chosen. The chosen applicant is based on them being the best qualified not based on the advantage that Person B is friends with the owner.


Equal opportunity is when there are no advantages or disadvantages over another.
People are simply better placed to take advantage of opportunity

Equal opportunity

 

[ThatDude30]

The United States of Inequality! Trying to make unequal things equal.

No, America is not trying to make unequal things equal--Democrats are. Republicans believe in making opportunity equal. Results are the outcome of exercising such opportunities.

There will never be equality in America. You cannot have freedom and equality.

And why not? There may never be outcome equality, but there is opportunity equality. If not, give me an example of why not.

We are all entitled to no charge primary education.
We are all capable of acquiring advanced education.
We are all guaranteed equality in seeking employment.
We are all capable of investing our money instead of spending it.
We are all capable of not having a family or having a family only when financial stability is acquired.
We are all capable of moving to where the most opportunity exists.

"People say it's unfair to move ahead because it means leaving others behind. Well...that's the idea of moving ahead. If we all moved ahead the same distance at the same time, then nobody gets ahead."
Andrew Wilkow

As I said before, when filling out an application for employment, benefits, government assistance, medical, education, etc having to check which race you are, what gender you are, your age, and/or your income that is not equal opportunity. Equal opportunity for all would not require any of that information. Your race and age makes sense when it comes to medical, but why is income necessary for medical? For the reason to pay cost. Equal opportunity for employment wouldn't require your race, gender, or any other personal info not even experience.

Example. when I was 21 years old me and my best friend who was also 21 and I'm just 1 day older decided to get a place and be room mates. We had the same job, made the same pay, made the hours worked the same shifts. So our pay checks were literally the same(equal). We split all costs down the middle suck as rent, utilities etc. The only difference was I had a car payment and car insurance and he didn't. We both went to the welfare office to apply for food stamps. On the application it asked for race, gender, age, income etc. Me and my friend had the same answer for each question except for race I'm white he is black and I have an additional expense of a car loan and insurance payment. How does he get approved for $200 a month in food stamps and I get approved for $0? The only difference was our race and I had 2 extra expenses. How is that equal opportunity?

Entitled, capable, and guaranteed is not equal.
Not everyone is equal or has equal opportunity for anything you said. Capable of acquiring advanced education is not equal when one may have to pay and another doesn't, when one can afford it and when another cant. Equal opportunity for advanced education would mean everyone could afford it or it was free for everyone. investing our money instead of spending it is a choice(freedom) not equality. Having a family or not has nothing to do with equal opportunity. Guaranteed equality when seeking employment? Are you serious? Until discrimination, stereo typing, and racism is absent there will never be guaranteed equality when seeking employment let alone equal opportunity for all. They say that but that's a bunch of bull.

It's been many years since I applied for a job, but the last time I did, we were less sensitive to race issues than we are today. But even if those questions are asked, the answers cannot be used against you (or anybody else) for consideration of the position.

Your reply begs several questions: Did you contact the people at the food stamp office and ask them why you and your black friend were treated differently? Did you ask to talk to his or her supervisor? Did you call your local news station and ask for an investigation? How about your Congressman or State Rep?

Government workers do not make judgement calls. They have set standards. Something tells me you are leaving out important circumstances between you and your friend; either you're not telling me to try and enforce your point, or you don't know something about your friend that you should have.

It's against the law for any employer to discriminate. Most if not all adhere to those standards to avoid public embarrassment, or otherwise don't want to risk the future of their company. No businessman would discriminate and risk losing his business because of it.

You really think they are going to tell you the reason you weren't hired is because of their personal discrimination against you? Say your interviewer was an Asian guy who hates white guys. The white guy walks in and the Asian guys makes his decision of not hiring you right of the bat because your white. He has to continue through the interview so him or the company wont get in trouble for discrimination. If you asked what his reason was to not hire you, he will give you a reason such as your overqualified, you don't have the qualifications and/or skills we need, he is not going to tell you, "o yea the first second I saw you was white I made my mind up, I hate white people so I didn't hire you." Then he gets fired and the white guys sues and it gets ugly. Majority of people discriminate they just cant legally tell you in certain positions. If you actually think there is no discrimination in the workforce you are naïve.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The United States of Inequality! Trying to make unequal things equal.

No, America is not trying to make unequal things equal--Democrats are. Republicans believe in making opportunity equal. Results are the outcome of exercising such opportunities.

There will never be equality in America. You cannot have freedom and equality.

And why not? There may never be outcome equality, but there is opportunity equality. If not, give me an example of why not.

We are all entitled to no charge primary education.
We are all capable of acquiring advanced education.
We are all guaranteed equality in seeking employment.
We are all capable of investing our money instead of spending it.
We are all capable of not having a family or having a family only when financial stability is acquired.
We are all capable of moving to where the most opportunity exists.

"People say it's unfair to move ahead because it means leaving others behind. Well...that's the idea of moving ahead. If we all moved ahead the same distance at the same time, then nobody gets ahead."
Andrew Wilkow

As I said before, when filling out an application for employment, benefits, government assistance, medical, education, etc having to check which race you are, what gender you are, your age, and/or your income that is not equal opportunity. Equal opportunity for all would not require any of that information. Your race and age makes sense when it comes to medical, but why is income necessary for medical? For the reason to pay cost. Equal opportunity for employment wouldn't require your race, gender, or any other personal info not even experience.

Example. when I was 21 years old me and my best friend who was also 21 and I'm just 1 day older decided to get a place and be room mates. We had the same job, made the same pay, made the hours worked the same shifts. So our pay checks were literally the same(equal). We split all costs down the middle suck as rent, utilities etc. The only difference was I had a car payment and car insurance and he didn't. We both went to the welfare office to apply for food stamps. On the application it asked for race, gender, age, income etc. Me and my friend had the same answer for each question except for race I'm white he is black and I have an additional expense of a car loan and insurance payment. How does he get approved for $200 a month in food stamps and I get approved for $0? The only difference was our race and I had 2 extra expenses. How is that equal opportunity?

Entitled, capable, and guaranteed is not equal.
Not everyone is equal or has equal opportunity for anything you said. Capable of acquiring advanced education is not equal when one may have to pay and another doesn't, when one can afford it and when another cant. Equal opportunity for advanced education would mean everyone could afford it or it was free for everyone. investing our money instead of spending it is a choice(freedom) not equality. Having a family or not has nothing to do with equal opportunity. Guaranteed equality when seeking employment? Are you serious? Until discrimination, stereo typing, and racism is absent there will never be guaranteed equality when seeking employment let alone equal opportunity for all. They say that but that's a bunch of bull.

It's been many years since I applied for a job, but the last time I did, we were less sensitive to race issues than we are today. But even if those questions are asked, the answers cannot be used against you (or anybody else) for consideration of the position.

Your reply begs several questions: Did you contact the people at the food stamp office and ask them why you and your black friend were treated differently? Did you ask to talk to his or her supervisor? Did you call your local news station and ask for an investigation? How about your Congressman or State Rep?

Government workers do not make judgement calls. They have set standards. Something tells me you are leaving out important circumstances between you and your friend; either you're not telling me to try and enforce your point, or you don't know something about your friend that you should have.

It's against the law for any employer to discriminate. Most if not all adhere to those standards to avoid public embarrassment, or otherwise don't want to risk the future of their company. No businessman would discriminate and risk losing his business because of it.

You really think they are going to tell you the reason you weren't hired is because of their personal discrimination against you? Say your interviewer was an Asian guy who hates white guys. The white guy walks in and the Asian guys makes his decision of not hiring you right of the bat because your white. He has to continue through the interview so him or the company wont get in trouble for discrimination. If you asked what his reason was to not hire you, he will give you a reason such as your overqualified, you don't have the qualifications and/or skills we need, he is not going to tell you, "o yea the first second I saw you was white I made my mind up, I hate white people so I didn't hire you." Then he gets fired and the white guys sues and it gets ugly. Majority of people discriminate they just cant legally tell you in certain positions. If you actually think there is no discrimination in the workforce you are naïve.

Here is what you don't understand: When a shoplifter gets caught stealing, do you really believe it's the first time they stole anything from a store? When you see a homeless drunk walking down the street, do you believe it's the first time he ever drank alcohol?

If any employer discriminates, it's likely they've been challenged before. It's likely they have a record of such practice. Do you believe they didn't think of that while forming this pattern of discrimination?

It's just like when I rent one of my apartments out. When I advertise, I fear the state will be sending agents out posing like prospective tenants looking for a reason to nail me on something. It's something every landlord fears, so we don't discriminate for anything. And trust me, the state has sent people out trying to frame me.

While I may wish to rent to people I am more comfortable with, I can't refuse any applicant of race unless I have a damn good reason; a reason easily proven in a court of law. Much like employers, if somebody complains to the state about discrimination, they start making plans on how to set me up to prove that's what I do. It's not worth me losing everything if I decide to make my choices based on personal preference over law. It's the stupidest thing anybody can do.

So if any employer is discriminating for any reason, it's extremely rare and far from widespread. And if they are, it's only a matter of time before they get closed down by the government.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Equal opportunity

The United States of Inequality! Trying to make unequal things equal.

No, America is not trying to make unequal things equal--Democrats are. Republicans believe in making opportunity equal. Results are the outcome of exercising such opportunities.

There will never be equality in America. You cannot have freedom and equality.

And why not? There may never be outcome equality, but there is opportunity equality. If not, give me an example of why not.

We are all entitled to no charge primary education.
We are all capable of acquiring advanced education.
We are all guaranteed equality in seeking employment.
We are all capable of investing our money instead of spending it.
We are all capable of not having a family or having a family only when financial stability is acquired.
We are all capable of moving to where the most opportunity exists.

"People say it's unfair to move ahead because it means leaving others behind. Well...that's the idea of moving ahead. If we all moved ahead the same distance at the same time, then nobody gets ahead."
Andrew Wilkow

Equal opportunity for all is a myth.

Therein lies the problem with the idea of equal opportunity for all. Some people are simply better placed to take advantage of opportunity. - Deborah Orr

Someone having to work harder for an opportunity then another is not equal opportunity.

How so? You don't have to work harder to obtain an opportunity, you just need to take advantage of the opportunities you have available to you. How hard you work doesn't come before opportunity--it comes after you seize opportunity.

Give me an example of two people of the same caliber where one would have to work harder than another.

Ok Person A and Person B Both want to be a foreman in the construction field. Person A has a family with money and can afford to send him to a trade school so he can earn an associates degree in specialized technology for construction. Person B their family can not afford to pay to send them to a trade school to obtain an associates degree. Company B is the biggest construction company in their area. Person B applies for a job for the company and gets hired. Person A is going to a trade skill for 13 months to obtain their associates degree in specialized technology. Person Starts out doing the grunt work doing the jobs no one wants to do such as carrying big concrete slabs, retrieving tools, cleaning up etc. That company offers an apprenticeship program. The program is offered once a year and the capacity for the program maybe 3 employees. If Person B doesn't get in the program that year he has to wait a whole entire year longer. If he gets in this year he has to work full time 5 days a week and attend classes 2 nights a week for four years after the year he gets in to just become a journeyman. Person A goes to class then goes home plays video games and parties on the weekends while Person B is busting his butt. Person A gets his associates degree in 13 months and becomes a journeyman and gets paid real well. Person B after 13 months is still doing grunt work making 5-10 bucks less an hour than Person A and still has a 2 years and 11 months to get to journeyman.

Another example Person A has been working hard for 2 years at a job in hopes to get a management position that became available. The position goes up for grabs. Person A knows he is the hardest worker and has sonority and the most qualified for the job. 1 week later the company announces who got the job, Person A knows it has to be him. The company introduces Person B to fill the management position. Well Person Bs father is friends with the owner of the company. Person Bs father talked to the owner saying hey we go way back my son needs a job to learn responsibilities and needs to start learning how to make a living but has no job experience. He knows Microsoft word, excel, powerpoint, he can type 100 words per minute, trust me we go way back he is perfect for the management position. I promise you he wont let you down or drinks on me for a month. The owner goes you know what? If hes anything like his father he shouldn't have a problem. Person A has 2 years experience and knows the management of the company. Person B has never worked a day in his life. Person A is the most qualified for the position.
Equal opportunity in this case would be everyone having opportunity to apply(compete) for the position. Then Applications should be judged on their merits with procedures designed to identify those best qualified. Then the applicant most qualified is chosen. The chosen applicant is based on them being the best qualified not based on the advantage that Person B is friends with the owner.


Equal opportunity is when there are no advantages or disadvantages over another.
People are simply better placed to take advantage of opportunity

Equal opportunity

Where do you get this notion that only people who can pay for cash get an advanced education? I could never understand that.

Both my niece and nephew are college graduates. Now in their early 30's, they are both still paying off their college loans. I forget the degree my niece holds, but my nephew has a Masters degree. It wasn't cheap.

He's in a middle of a divorce and in spite of his good paying full-time job, he holds a second job as well. His goal is to pay off all of his loans by the time he reaches 35. It's all he's living for right now. Because he works at a school, he gets off much of the summer, and that affords him the opportunity to work full-time at his otherwise par-time job.

It's easier for some people than others, but that doesn't mean my nephew had any less of an opportunity than perhaps some of his classmates or coworkers who came from a much more affluent family. It's harder for my nephew, but now he's doing just as good (or better) as those rich kids who's parents were able to pay for their college with cash.

 

[Stratford57]

There will never be "Equality" in America. How can 1 country that has citizens from different cultures, different religious beliefs, different races, different income, and different views be equal? It wont happen.
On my street there are 3-4 different races, 2-3 different cultures, 3-4 different religions, and different incomes.
The only way a country could be equal is that every has same income, drives same cars, wears the same clothes, have the same religion, and same views.

A country that has more freedom than others can not be equal.

America will never be a country that is equal.

Nikolay Berdyayev, Russian religious philosopher:

Equality and freedom are mutually exclusive concepts. You can describe freedom as a meadow with lots of different herbs freely growing next to each other: some herbs are high, some are low, some are medium. And equality means just a mowed lawn.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You may not be aware of this Ray but there are ways to discriminate if you do choose. I didn’t know about them either until I went to work for a head hunting firm.

Let’s say you don’t want to hire Blacks. Some of our clients didn’t. We didn’t send them any black applicants. You can’t be accused of discrimination if no minoritied apply for the job. This is why employment agencies exist. To help employers weed out “unsuitable” candidates.

We had one client who only hired bright, blonde women under 30 years of age, and under 5’ 7” in height. The company owner was 5’ 8”. Let’s call it the Aryan Mining Company. All of the applicants we sent to that company fit this description. They weren’t sent any applicants who didn’t fit this description. If a cute 25 year old university graduate blonde came in, we called her a “Aryan Mines type”.

The company can’t be accused of racial discrimination since no blacks, Asians, brunettes or tall women ever applied for jobs there. All their applicants were short blonde white women. And just for the record, as a 5’ 11” brunette, I couldn’t get an interview with them even if I had wanted one.

That would come out in an investigation.......at least here in the US. I don't know what goes on in Canada.

Here, if challenged, your client would be questioned by authorities, or they would send a non-blonde or perhaps minority to the company to apply for a job; maybe several of them. If authorities were told that short hot blondes were the only people your company sent them, bells and whistles would go off. The onus would fall back on your organization. They could have a court subpoena your employee records to see who you are hiring. If it's found that yes, you do have minority or elderly people qualified for the job, your company would be facing fines and perhaps closure of the business.

I suspect what they may even do is give your company a choice of going down with the ship to protect your customer, or testify that you customer gave you those strict employee guidelines.

Nefarious patterns are way too easy to spot. Investigators are no amateurs and have seen every possible scenario imaginable.

 

[Wry Catcher]

There will never be "Equality" in America. How can 1 country that has citizens from different cultures, different religious beliefs, different races, different income, and different views be equal? It wont happen.
On my street there are 3-4 different races, 2-3 different cultures, 3-4 different religions, and different incomes.
The only way a country could be equal is that every has same income, drives same cars, wears the same clothes, have the same religion, and same views.

A country that has more freedom than others can not be equal.

America will never be a country that is equal.

EQUAL BEFORE THE LAW is not impossible when good men and women serve the law. Can anyone honestly argue that Sessions or Trump is a good man?

 

[Rustic]

equal opportunity, equal justice, equal as a citizen and the bill of rights for all...

not clones

You’re confused, the clones are people that want everything the same you know... The collective