Zone1 The timing of the New Testament... decades after...

[EMH]

Are you debating the existence of Jesus as a historical figure?

I do not. There are two versions of essentially the same thing.

The New Testament

The Jewish version

Both have him in Judea / Nazareth with a flock of roughly 5k on a property called Nazarene. Both have the disciples bolting on Jesus when the authorities show up to arrest him. Both have precisely zero witnesses at his trial claiming to observe either healing or miracle. Both have large flocks for Barrabas and cheering the crucifixion. The Jewish version explains that. The New Testament does not.

 

[EMH]

Where do you this kind of trash(besides your own hatred) from?

What part do you dispute?

 

[EMH]

There is no point to Christianity without the risen Christ. Paul said himself that if Christ has not been raised our faith is in vain and we are dead in our sins. 1 Cor 15:19

The Bible has been used to justify everything from slavery to the Spanish Inquisition


The credibility of Paul is zero, since there were no supporters of Jesus at the time...

 

[Meriweather]

The credibility of Paul is zero, since there were no supporters of Jesus at the time...

Paul testifies of meetings with some of Jesus' Apostles who followed him in his lifetime. He speaks of people who believed in Jesus and traveled with him. He writes to groups who were interested in Jesus and Paul's testimony of Jesus and his teachings.

 

[EMH]

Paul testifies of meetings with some of Jesus' Apostles who followed him in his lifetime. He speaks of people who believed in Jesus and traveled with him. He writes to groups who were interested in Jesus and Paul's testimony of Jesus and his teachings.

And then there is the time gap.

Jesus is crucified

His Disciples are hunted down and butchered

And then DECADES LATER there are these phantom supporters for Paul to hallucinate....

 

[Augustine_]

Because it was the ancient world. Most people were illiterate. "Breaking news" was passed orally--it wouldn't have even occurred to them to write it down and disseminate it immediately; again, most people did not even have that capacity.

Here is some information, for example, about Julius Caesar. He died in 44 BC. Notice almost none of the historic sources--scroll down--were written in his lifetime, but decades after, some hundreds of years after.

Julius Caesar

A detailed biography of Julius Caesar that includes images, quotations and the main facts of his life. Key Stage 3. GCSE World History. A-level. Last updated: 15th March 2022

spartacus-educational.com

Books written by Julius Caesar himself can be bought on Amazon or any bookstore right now

 

[Meriweather]

His Disciples are hunted down and butchered

Not immediately. There was enough time before their deaths for Paul to meet them.

 

[TruthNotBS]

This debate has gone on for two thousand years...

A Brief Review of Jesus the Jew, by Thomas Dalton

One is forced to ask: Does MacDonald approve this? Did he give the go-ahead to publish such a historically laughable article?

www.vtforeignpolicy.com

"“If Jesus was anything close to the miracle-worker that the Bible describes, there would be a mountain of testifying evidence: documents, carvings, engravings, letters, etc. And these would exist from his followers, his skeptics, his critics, and the Romans who ruled the region. There would be a vast and well-documented account of a man who walked on water, raised the dead, healed with a touch, calmed storms, and fed thousands with ‘five loaves of bread and two fish.’ These testimonies would all date to the time of his alleged ministry, roughly, 27 to 30 AD. And yet, from that time period, we have… nothing. In fact, nothing even close. In fact, nothing for literally decades.”

"“The first Christian writings to talk about Jesus are the epistles of St Paul, and scholars agree that the earliest of these letters were written within 25 years of Jesus’s death at the very latest, while the detailed biographical accounts of Jesus in the New Testament gospels date from around 40 years after he died."


Ok, so this guy is/was "Son of God," and he gets convicted and crucified, and his disciples are hunted down and murdered in grisly fashion....

and then DECADES PASS... and then the New Testament starts to emerge....

DECADES...

And St. Paul's big claim is a "vision" he saw but nobody else did.


If this guy was really Son of God, why did it take DECADES after his death to start writing the New Testament??????

??????????????????????????????????

Born again, spirit-filled Christians aren't moved or challenged by such critical arguments, because our knowledge and experience of Christ and His written Word, was never based on cold, logical reasoning. Our Christian faith and life is supra-rational or meta-rational. It's foolishness and absurd to those who are perishing. To the smarty-pant rationalist, who gloats over us, declaring how moronic and ridiculous we are, insisting he's the one aligned with reality, and we're absolutely deluded and willfully ignorant..etc, will one day realize who was actually closer to the truth, and it wasn't him. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, and one day all of the hyper-skeptics will realize that.

 

[EMH]

Not immediately. There was enough time before their deaths for Paul to meet them.

When did Paul have his vision?

Way after those Disciples were all offed....

 

[EMH]

Born again, spirit-filled Christians aren't moved or challenged by such critical arguments, because our knowledge and experience of Christ and His written Word, was never based on cold, logical reasoning. Our Christian faith and life is supra-rational or meta-rational. It's foolishness and absurd to those who are perishing. To the smarty-pant rationalist, who gloats over us, declaring how moronic and ridiculous we are, insisting he's the one aligned with reality, and we're absolutely deluded and willfully ignorant..etc, will one day realize who was actually closer to the truth, and it wasn't him. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, and one day all of the hyper-skeptics will realize that.

All good, until you want war in the Middle East because you define the word "soon" as "more than 2000 years later"

 

[TruthNotBS]

All good, until you want war in the Middle East because you define the word "soon" as "more than 2000 years later"

I don't want war in the Middle East.

 

[EMH]

I don't want war in the Middle East.

Most Christians don't.

The ones in the South and Midwest from certain denominations do because their "preachers" do...

 

[Meriweather]

When did Paul have his vision?

Way after those Disciples were all offed....

Where did you come to this conclusion. Luke's account of the early Apostles and disciples, says differently.

 

[BreezeWood]

Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, and one day all of the hyper-skeptics will realize that.

that wont be you christian your hollow words speak otherwise ...

"that this very night, before the cock crows, you will three times disown me."

- bring those to justice that murdered them or their parting words will be forever yours.

 

[TruthNotBS]

that wont be you christian your hollow words speak otherwise ...



- bring those to justice that murdered them or their parting words will be forever yours.

Why do my supposed "hollow words" speak otherwise?

 

[SweetSue92]

The Bible has been used to justify everything from slavery to the Spanish Inquisition


The credibility of Paul is zero, since there were no supporters of Jesus at the time...

K now you're just jumping all over the place. It seems like you have the oldest and most prevalent objection to God: I want what I want, and I'll do it my way.

That's fine; God will let you. For now.

 

[EMH]

It seems like you have the oldest and most prevalent objection to God: I want what I want, and I'll do it my way.

The data is the data. You care about God, and there is nothing wrong with that. Science is not faith. Science requires proof. The conclusion must explain the data. It has nothing to do with "wanting."

The Global Warmers "want" you to believe Co2 is warming the atmosphere, for example. There are people who "worship" that. I prove them wrong in Environment section. I get the same response...

 

[SweetSue92]

The data is the data. You care about God, and there is nothing wrong with that. Science is not faith. Science requires proof. The conclusion must explain the data. It has nothing to do with "wanting."

The Global Warmers "want" you to believe Co2 is warming the atmosphere, for example. There are people who "worship" that. I prove them wrong in Environment section. I get the same response...

Not everything in life is science, either.

 

[irosie91]

I mean....yes. Caesar was the Emperor of the most powerful nation/state in the entire world, and was surrounded by people who could read and write and had the means to do so. I mean, yes, of course his history was recorded.

Jesus Christ was a poor Jew from an obscure backwater town. He hung out with common people. Still, he attracted a good amount of attention and there are contemporary accounts of His life even outside the Bible. Not like what you would get for the Roman Emperor, and this only makes sense.

sorry Sue-----the people of the time of Jesus in Judea were actually MORE literate than were
the people of Rome, HOWEVER preservation of letters and papers and records in Judea
was VERY PRECARIOUS based on the military actions against that land and people. The
elucidation of the "DEAD SEA SCROLLS" is a magical event.......no mention of Jesus therein--BUT
the absence of a record does not preclude his existence

 

[EMH]

Not everything in life is science, either.

No, but understanding science would stop Co2 fraud and Covid fraud and busts 911 as fraud, three things that have wrecked America because morons have no clue and parrot liars on the TV...

Religion is how those behind 911 got away with it. They used religion to get "Christians" to believe a lie, and sell out our troops and national interests over that lie...