Zone1 Four Beliefs of Christian Doctrine - What If Any are Taken Away?

[onefour1]

Ok. I would love to believe there is a benevolent God who cares for me. Walk me through it. You say to seek God first. What exactly does that mean? I grew up in my parents Baptist religion, and even served as a deacon for a few years until actual bible study showed me that most of what I was taught and believed couldn't be accurate. I would love to start over and find that comfort again. Here's your chance to show me what I haven't already seen. Seek God? What specifically does that mean. What, specifically is my first step to find the comfort you say you have.

Pray to God to guide you.

 

[Meriweather]

Ok. I would love to believe there is a benevolent God who cares for me. Walk me through it. You say to seek God first. What exactly does that mean? I grew up in my parents Baptist religion, and even served as a deacon for a few years until actual bible study showed me that most of what I was taught and believed couldn't be accurate. I would love to start over and find that comfort again. Here's your chance to show me what I haven't already seen. Seek God? What specifically does that mean. What, specifically is my first step to find the comfort you say you have.

First, I didn't say I have comfort. I find a good first step is to seek God in the little things.

 

[BreezeWood]

What if He did not perform miracles? What if God did not demand His blood sacrifice? What if He did not physically arise from the dead?

you needn't bother so much - with the obvious.

hopefully christianity will soon fade into obscurity and take the other two with them ...

jesus taught liberation theology, self determination and claimed very little written about them in the 4th century christian bible written by their adversaries.

 

[BULLDOG]

Pray to God to guide you.

Done that. What next?

 

[GMCGeneral]

Christian doctrine seems to include the following beliefs:
1. Jesus was God in human form (immaculate conception);
2. Jesus performed miracles;
3. Jesus was God's blood sacrifice for our sins; and
4. Jesus physically arose from the dead.

My question is whether someone must accept all of these beliefs in order to be a Christian. What if Jesus was not immaculately conceived? What if He did not perform miracles? What if God did not demand His blood sacrifice? What if He did not physically arise from the dead?

I have always considered myself to be a Christian, but I have serious doubts as to the literal application of these beliefs. For example, how could Jesus be a man if he didn't possess X Chromosomes? From the Creator of the Universe, miracles seem like cheap card tricks. Did the New Testament God of Love really demand a human sacrifice? How would a human body physically ascend to Heaven?

Are all of these beliefs necessary to accept the authority of Christ's teachings?

Short answer is absolutely! Plus being a true Christian doesn't mean merely following Christ's teachings, but experiencing the born again regeneration that is only possible through His shed blood. Now, as to the deity of Christ, Jn. 8:58 He declares "Before Abraham was I Am". he made it clear that he is fully G-d AND fully man. Without sin, He alone could ;pay the full penalty.

 

[BULLDOG]

First, I didn't say I have comfort. I find a good first step is to seek God in the little things.

There are so many quick responses like that, but nobody seems to be able to explain exactly what it means. Obviously, I didn't do it right before, so be specific. What form does seeking God take? Step by step for seeking God.

 

[Meriweather]

There are so many quick responses like that, but nobody seems to be able to explain exactly what it means. Obviously, I didn't do it right before, so be specific. What form does seeking God take? Step by step for seeking God.

What is it you didn't do right? Or, in other words, why did you give up? What was it you wanted from God that you didn't receive? I began my search as a very small child. I had no ulterior motives. I was also a very stubborn child; everyone I've ever known has told me they have never met anyone as stubborn as I. Or, as I prefer to think of it, I was persistent, I did not give up. As an adult...who has ten years to seek God? Also, adults come with ulterior motives, it seems something that is built into us. Also, we test. One of the first things God advises us about himself is do not put him to the test. We spend our teens testing everyone and everything, something else built into us. In short, there is no formula--or if there is, it wasn't something I ever discovered in my own search.

 

[onefour1]

Done that. What next?

In my life I found that praying often and following the words of Jesus and his true prophets brings enlightenment and joy to my life. Jesus taught, "seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be opened unto you". I feel that the true answers to the purpose of life and have hope and joy and happiness is through coming to know and understand God and the blessings and purpose of your life. I personally found it in the teachings of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. When praying and reading I came to feel the Holy Ghost in my life and this has made all the difference in the world. I would suggest reading the Book of Mormon. Within the Book of Mormon is a promise that goes as follows:

Moroni 10:3-5
3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.
4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.

I would also say the same thing about the Bible. Ask God if it is true and He will answer you through the power of the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost is the third member of the Godhead and it is His mission to bear truth to those who seek after it. God loves you Bulldog, and will not leave you without a witness of truth. It is through humble prayer and seeking after God that you will find him. I will pray for your success that you will be filled with the Spirit of God. I only came to my answers through prayer, study and following the word of God. I know that He can do the same for you.

 

[BULLDOG]

What is it you didn't do right? Or, in other words, why did you give up? What was it you wanted from God that you didn't receive? I began my search as a very small child. I had no ulterior motives. I was also a very stubborn child; everyone I've ever known has told me they have never met anyone as stubborn as I. Or, as I prefer to think of it, I was persistent, I did not give up. As an adult...who has ten years to seek God? Also, adults come with ulterior motives, it seems something that is built into us. Also, we test. One of the first things God advises us about himself is do not put him to the test. We spend our teens testing everyone and everything, something else built into us. In short, there is no formula--or if there is, it wasn't something I ever discovered in my own search.

Got it. Search for God, but you don't seem to know what that means. I've heard all the normal Churchey sounding cliche remarks that don't really mean anything. You got anything else?

 

[surada]

Christian doctrine seems to include the following beliefs:
1. Jesus was God in human form (immaculate conception);
2. Jesus performed miracles;
3. Jesus was God's blood sacrifice for our sins; and
4. Jesus physically arose from the dead.

My question is whether someone must accept all of these beliefs in order to be a Christian. What if Jesus was not immaculately conceived? What if He did not perform miracles? What if God did not demand His blood sacrifice? What if He did not physically arise from the dead?

I have always considered myself to be a Christian, but I have serious doubts as to the literal application of these beliefs. For example, how could Jesus be a man if he didn't possess X Chromosomes? From the Creator of the Universe, miracles seem like cheap card tricks. Did the New Testament God of Love really demand a human sacrifice? How would a human body physically ascend to Heaven?

Are all of these beliefs necessary to accept the authority of Christ's teachings?

Mary is the immaculate conception not Jesus.

 

[BULLDOG]

In my life I found that praying often and following the words of Jesus and his true prophets brings enlightenment and joy to my life. Jesus taught, "seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be opened unto you". I feel that the true answers to the purpose of life and have hope and joy and happiness is through coming to know and understand God and the blessings and purpose of your life. I personally found it in the teachings of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. When praying and reading I came to feel the Holy Ghost in my life and this has made all the difference in the world. I would suggest reading the Book of Mormon. Within the Book of Mormon is a promise that goes as follows:

Moroni 10:3-5
3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.
4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.

I would also say the same thing about the Bible. Ask God if it is true and He will answer you through the power of the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost is the third member of the Godhead and it is His mission to bear truth to those who seek after it. God loves you Bulldog, and will not leave you without a witness of truth. It is through humble prayer and seeking after God that you will find him. I will pray for your success that you will be filled with the Spirit of God. I only came to my answers through prayer, study and following the word of God. I know that He can do the same for you.

I've read the bible a lot, and asked God if it were true. When do you think he might be getting back to me with all the answers? Of course you also say I have to have faith first.
That brings us back to my remark in #10 about having to completely accept tenants of your cult before you get any reason to believe there is anything to it.

 

[Meriweather]

Got it. Search for God, but you don't seem to know what that means. I've heard all the normal Churchey sounding cliche remarks that don't really mean anything. You got anything else?

Seek. Seek God in every little thing, in all you do in your daily life. Instead of wondering why God doesn't show up, ask why you are not seeing him. Elijah was expecting to find God in the strong and mighty events. He found him in the tiniest whisper. How many times do we bypass God every day through dismissing the insignificant? It's not that God isn't there--it's that he is overlooked.

What are your expectations of God? What are your motives for seeking him? What do you expect to be changed in your life? Are these expectations and motives leading you on a search for something other than God? I ask again: Why did you give up seeking God?

 

[Meriweather]

I've read the bible a lot, and asked God if it were true. When do you think he might be getting back to me with all the answers?

Instead of reading the Bible, study it. For the Old Testament, studying rabbinical commentaries works best. William Barclay has amazing commentary on all New Testament books.

 

[jwoodie]

As indicated in this thread, most Christians claim to be Believers but can't explain exactly what they believe (Jehovah's Witnesses excepted). I think the Jefferson Bible (Jesus's own words) has it right, and the rest are window dressing.

 

[Meriweather]

I think the Jefferson Bible (Jesus's own words) has it right, and the rest are window dressing.

Grin. Out of curiosity are their curtains, valances or other window treatments in your home? Do they enhance or detract?

 

[jwoodie]

Grin. Out of curiosity are their curtains, valances or other window treatments in your home? Do they enhance or detract?

Is this a parable without a point? Window treatments affect the appearance of windows but not their substance.

 

[Meriweather]

Is this a parable without a point? Window treatments affect the appearance of windows but not their substance.

It draws people to the window; most might agree it enhances the window and does not detract from it. (Just playing.)

 

[BULLDOG]

Seek. Seek God in every little thing, in all you do in your daily life. Instead of wondering why God doesn't show up, ask why you are not seeing him. Elijah was expecting to find God in the strong and mighty events. He found him in the tiniest whisper. How many times do we bypass God every day through dismissing the insignificant? It's not that God isn't there--it's that he is overlooked.

What are your expectations of God? What are your motives for seeking him? What do you expect to be changed in your life? Are these expectations and motives leading you on a search for something other than God? I ask again: Why did you give up seeking God?

Again, you are just repeating a phrase with no meaning. Another common one is "the answer is there, you just have to accept it", another meaningless phrase. It always comes down to "you don't need to have any reason to believe anything, just take my word for it."

 

[Meriweather]

Again, you are just repeating a phrase with no meaning. Another common one is "the answer is there, you just have to accept it", another meaningless phrase. It always comes down to "you don't need to have any reason to believe anything, just take my word for it."

There is no meaning in 'seek'? I'll take your word for it.

 

[BULLDOG]

Instead of reading the Bible, study it. For the Old Testament, studying rabbinical commentaries works best. William Barclay has amazing commentary on all New Testament books.

Did you miss the part where I was a deacon? I was perfectly happy accepting what my parents religion taught me as a child. It was only when I retired and had the time to actually study the bible and all the stories that I had been told that I realized it was mostly just bullshit. Seek God, Just accept it, you have to believe first, and you just refuse to believe are all just silly substitutes for actual answers.