The Politics of Envy

[uscitizen]

Well, Blacks were though of as sub-human at the time by many.

And would be still if not for the Progressive Republican party.

Chicago Murder Rate Soars as Obama Stays Silent

Chicago Murder Rate Soars as Obama Stays Silent

That is one of the stupidest associations I have seen.
You logic is badly flawed.

 

[Wiseacre]

It is very common, hero worship is one form of the basic human affliction i speak of.

the sect of Palintology was a very entertaining illustration of the affliction.

Palintology? As in worship? Complete and utter bullshit. And you are entertained? How very sad.

Note Palintology not palentology.

Noticed the first time. Hero worship for Sara Palin? Really?

 

[SniperFire]

Truth is a mofo.

 

[NYcarbineer]

These days it seems to be all about class warfare, promoting envy against those who have more by those who have less. Let's take more from them and redistribute it to somebody else, and social justice is achieved. Supposedly. They don't deserve it, not that much, some didn't really earn it anyway. IT'S NOT FAIR. Who gets to decide what's fair? Just wonderin'.

Envy is a very destructive force, both for an individual and for society as a whole. Instead of thinking and doing whatever is necessary to get ahead, we're concerned with what someone else has, and taking it from him, her, or them. You tell me, where does it end? Some want to return the days when the marginal tax rate exceeded 90%, hell let's take it all! As though there are no repercussions, no consequences. Does the left not see that entrepeneurship and innovation are impaired when you cut the reward down to next to nothing? Who's going to risk their time, effort, and money? As we speak, more than a few wealthy frenchmen are moving their money out of France and leaving the country. As did the wealthy in Sweden 20 years ago when they substantially raised taxes, and everywhere else when the tax rate gets too high.

Beyond that, a message is sent when you engage in this kind of politics. We are turned against each other, and another reason is added to be resentful, even vengeful. Look at the violence of the OWSers, as we approach the conventions and a long hot summer of further discontent fueled by UE that remains stubbornly high particularly among the young, does anyone think it'll all blow over?

Are there any of you who really think that all our problems are solved by taking all or almost all the money earned by the rich? Most of 'em got rich by busting their humps, or by inventing something new and better, or by improving a product or service. Do you really think they continue to do so when you take away their incentive? Sounds a lot like communist Russia to me, how'd that work out?

When we worry about this we take our eyes off the real issue, which is trying to create more jobs and more opportunities for as many people as possible to get on the income ladder and start moving up. We need to be more effective at that, and stop obsessing about those who have already achieved success.

Most wealthy people got wealthy not entirely by their own work, but by being able to take a share of the work of others.

The essence of the struggle between the working class and the wealthy, owning class is the struggle over who gets what share of the wealth produced.

'Class envy' is just a card played by the rich, and the allies of the rich, little different than the playing of the 'race card' in certain circumstances; it is not a legitimate part of the debate.

Really?? who has Jay Leno stolen from? Who's work has Ben Rothleisburger stolen? Is the heart surgeon fleecing your wallet while you're on the table?

"Taking a share of others" is pure crap.. I've been a part of a DOZEN start-ups in Silicon Valley.. I can tell you for a fact -- that management was driving the beaters in the parking lot... You know NOTHING about risk and sacrifice for stuff you believe in.. And you falsely believe it's all about greed. Any of those people I named above GREEDY?

Neither were those entrenprenuers in Silicon Valley...
Take you class war and shove it.. It's disgusting and baseless.

Waaaaaa. Learn to read, asshole.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Our Founders did recognize, however, that stupid people should not be voting.


They knew stupid people would put people such as Pelosi in office and just vote themselves the other guys money, and eventually destroy our civilization.

Bright people, our Founding Fathers.

Constitutionally protecting slavery is the best example of being able to vote oneself the other guy's money, in the case the value of the slaves' labor.

Bright, white people.

Well, Blacks were though of as sub-human at the time by many.

And you praise the concept.

 

[uscitizen]

Palintology? As in worship? Complete and utter bullshit. And you are entertained? How very sad.

Note Palintology not palentology.

Noticed the first time. Hero worship for Sara Palin? Really?

The only way I could describe some peoples reaction to her.

I recall how lackluster the republicans were over their nominee last time till he picked Palin as his running mate. It was as if they had won the lottery all the jubilation and praise.

 

[Vidi]

Wiseacre - you could not have said it any better. Just look at the venom from the left on this thread alone. They are just full of hate and envy for anyone who has been more successful than them.

They simply can't accept that others are more talented, smarter, stronger, work harder, or just have more luck. They want the results for everyone to be "equal" but ignore the fact that the effort, talent, contributions, etc. are not equal.

In simple terms, they are everything that both the US and the bible stand against. They are a cancer to this nation, and they will be defeated just we defeated the British, the Nazi's, and the Soviets.

Liberalism is a disease, and Marxism is the new scourge of mankind.

New? LOL What are we in the 1910's? You get to wear the stupid hat today.

The new scourge is NeoCons and ignorance.

 

[Vidi]

Really?? who has Jay Leno stolen from? Who's work has Ben Rothleisburger stolen? Is the heart surgeon fleecing your wallet while you're on the table?

"Taking a share of others" is pure crap.. I've been a part of a DOZEN start-ups in Silicon Valley.. I can tell you for a fact -- that management was driving the beaters in the parking lot... You know NOTHING about risk and sacrifice for stuff you believe in.. And you falsely believe it's all about greed. Any of those people I named above GREEDY?

Neither were those entrenprenuers in Silicon Valley...
Take you class war and shove it.. It's disgusting and baseless.

Conan OBrien.

And yet you are not willing to admit who you have stolen from. The fact that you have expensive high speed bandwidth internet access and expensive computers to access it with is a clear indication that you have exploited and stolen from somebody. Your neighbor? Your employee? The defenseless homeless people in your community? Be a man for once and admit who you are exploiting for your own greed....

I have exploited my employees. I have exploited their talents to my benefit. If you call it exploitation that is. Which I dont. I was responding to the Jay Leno example, humorously, in my opinion, not defending the concept that people can only get wealthy by stealing from others. I find that assertion to be false.

 

[flacaltenn]

Most wealthy people got wealthy not entirely by their own work, but by being able to take a share of the work of others.

The essence of the struggle between the working class and the wealthy, owning class is the struggle over who gets what share of the wealth produced.

'Class envy' is just a card played by the rich, and the allies of the rich, little different than the playing of the 'race card' in certain circumstances; it is not a legitimate part of the debate.

Really?? who has Jay Leno stolen from? Who's work has Ben Rothleisburger stolen? Is the heart surgeon fleecing your wallet while you're on the table?

"Taking a share of others" is pure crap.. I've been a part of a DOZEN start-ups in Silicon Valley.. I can tell you for a fact -- that management was driving the beaters in the parking lot... You know NOTHING about risk and sacrifice for stuff you believe in.. And you falsely believe it's all about greed. Any of those people I named above GREEDY?

Neither were those entrenprenuers in Silicon Valley...
Take you class war and shove it.. It's disgusting and baseless.

Conan OBrien.

Wanna try for a grown-up answer??

 

[P@triot]

Wiseacre - you could not have said it any better. Just look at the venom from the left on this thread alone. They are just full of hate and envy for anyone who has been more successful than them.

They simply can't accept that others are more talented, smarter, stronger, work harder, or just have more luck. They want the results for everyone to be "equal" but ignore the fact that the effort, talent, contributions, etc. are not equal.

In simple terms, they are everything that both the US and the bible stand against. They are a cancer to this nation, and they will be defeated just we defeated the British, the Nazi's, and the Soviets.

Liberalism is a disease, and Marxism is the new scourge of mankind.

New? LOL What are we in the 1910's? You get to wear the stupid hat today.

The new scourge is NeoCons and ignorance.

Well, ignorance is certainly something you have plenty of, so you would be the authority on that subject!

 

[flacaltenn]

Most wealthy people got wealthy not entirely by their own work, but by being able to take a share of the work of others.

The essence of the struggle between the working class and the wealthy, owning class is the struggle over who gets what share of the wealth produced.

'Class envy' is just a card played by the rich, and the allies of the rich, little different than the playing of the 'race card' in certain circumstances; it is not a legitimate part of the debate.

Really?? who has Jay Leno stolen from? Who's work has Ben Rothleisburger stolen? Is the heart surgeon fleecing your wallet while you're on the table?

"Taking a share of others" is pure crap.. I've been a part of a DOZEN start-ups in Silicon Valley.. I can tell you for a fact -- that management was driving the beaters in the parking lot... You know NOTHING about risk and sacrifice for stuff you believe in.. And you falsely believe it's all about greed. Any of those people I named above GREEDY?

Neither were those entrenprenuers in Silicon Valley...
Take you class war and shove it.. It's disgusting and baseless.

Waaaaaa. Learn to read, asshole.

I used your phrase EXACTLY --- Lemme remind you what you said..

Most wealthy people got wealthy not entirely by their own work, but by being able to take a share of the work of others.

But I understand that you're being evasive, not answering my questions, because to admit THOSE RICH people have NOT "tak[en] a share of the work of others" would make you look whiny..

Kinda dissappointed me there Carbineer...

 

[SniperFire]

Really?? who has Jay Leno stolen from? Who's work has Ben Rothleisburger stolen? Is the heart surgeon fleecing your wallet while you're on the table?

"Taking a share of others" is pure crap.. I've been a part of a DOZEN start-ups in Silicon Valley.. I can tell you for a fact -- that management was driving the beaters in the parking lot... You know NOTHING about risk and sacrifice for stuff you believe in.. And you falsely believe it's all about greed. Any of those people I named above GREEDY?

Neither were those entrenprenuers in Silicon Valley...
Take you class war and shove it.. It's disgusting and baseless.

Conan OBrien.

Wanna try for a grown-up answer??

He is in his 20's. Lower your expectations.

 

[Vidi]

Really?? who has Jay Leno stolen from? Who's work has Ben Rothleisburger stolen? Is the heart surgeon fleecing your wallet while you're on the table?

"Taking a share of others" is pure crap.. I've been a part of a DOZEN start-ups in Silicon Valley.. I can tell you for a fact -- that management was driving the beaters in the parking lot... You know NOTHING about risk and sacrifice for stuff you believe in.. And you falsely believe it's all about greed. Any of those people I named above GREEDY?

Neither were those entrenprenuers in Silicon Valley...
Take you class war and shove it.. It's disgusting and baseless.

Conan OBrien.

Wanna try for a grown-up answer??

I dont see anywhere in Carbiners post where he says stealing was taking place. YOU brought up stealing, not him. He simply said that an employer takes a share of an employees work, which is absolutely true. The employer provides the workspace the materials and the mechanism for sales, so they are entitled to take a portion of the work as profits for themselves. The employer however does NOT create the wealth by themsleves however, which was NYCarbiners point.

As to your anecdotal evidence, even the guys driving the beaters are taking a portion of other peoples work. If things go well, they will be the ones that reap the greatest reward, because they are taking the greatest risk.

But in todays software world even you would have to agree that nearly all software companies must take into account the internet, most would in fact be working to write code for use on the internet or across it or have some utility that allows for users to share information across it.

They did not however invent the internet did they? ( that was Al Gore as we all know ) Now if they ship that product to stores? They didnt build the interstate highway system either did they? They get rewards from the work of others. Those things are part of our commons.

Therefore, when a company or person is successful in this country one must take into account how much effect the commons was a factor and come to the only logical conclusion that no man is an island. Success is not built by great men alone, but by teams of good people taking advantage of the opportunity the commons of America provides them. Thus, asking those people that benefit the most from that which is contributed by all of us to pay back into the system is both right and reasonable.


Just as Jay Leno has writers, Ben Rothleisburger has coaches, that heart surgeon has nurses assiting them and hospitals providing the OR.


grown up enough for you?

 

[Intense]

Really?? who has Jay Leno stolen from? Who's work has Ben Rothleisburger stolen? Is the heart surgeon fleecing your wallet while you're on the table?

"Taking a share of others" is pure crap.. I've been a part of a DOZEN start-ups in Silicon Valley.. I can tell you for a fact -- that management was driving the beaters in the parking lot... You know NOTHING about risk and sacrifice for stuff you believe in.. And you falsely believe it's all about greed. Any of those people I named above GREEDY?

Neither were those entrenprenuers in Silicon Valley...
Take you class war and shove it.. It's disgusting and baseless.

Waaaaaa. Learn to read, asshole.

I used your phrase EXACTLY --- Lemme remind you what you said..

Most wealthy people got wealthy not entirely by their own work, but by being able to take a share of the work of others.

But I understand that you're being evasive, not answering my questions, because to admit THOSE RICH people have NOT "tak[en] a share of the work of others" would make you look whiny..

Kinda dissappointed me there Carbineer...

That would look real nice on a Job Application. Please Hire Me. I Hate You, But I want What You Have. Life Is Just So Unfair. ..... Are you going to eat those fries?

 

[Vidi]

Conan OBrien.

Wanna try for a grown-up answer??

He is in his 20's. Lower your expectations.

I have a 3 year old granddaughter. But if I were in my twenties, I would still have a decade on you.

 

[Vidi]

Liberalism is a disease, and Marxism is the new scourge of mankind.

New? LOL What are we in the 1910's? You get to wear the stupid hat today.

The new scourge is NeoCons and ignorance.

Well, ignorance is certainly something you have plenty of, so you would be the authority on that subject!

If by ignorance you mean fact based opinion, you would be correct. But nice try. Maybe someday you can run with the big dogs, until then stay on the porch, little doggy.

 

[flacaltenn]

Conan OBrien.

Wanna try for a grown-up answer??

I dont see anywhere in Carbiners post where he says stealing was taking place. YOU brought up stealing, not him. He simply said that an employer takes a share of an employees work, which is absolutely true. The employer provides the workspace the materials and the mechanism for sales, so they are entitled to take a portion of the work as profits for themselves. The employer however does NOT create the wealth by themsleves however, which was NYCarbiners point.

As to your anecdotal evidence, even the guys driving the beaters are taking a portion of other peoples work. If things go well, they will be the ones that reap the greatest reward, because they are taking the greatest risk.

But in todays software world even you would have to agree that nearly all software companies must take into account the internet, most would in fact be working to write code for use on the internet or across it or have some utility that allows for users to share information across it.

They did not however invent the internet did they? ( that was Al Gore as we all know ) Now if they ship that product to stores? They didnt build the interstate highway system either did they? They get rewards from the work of others. Those things are part of our commons.

Therefore, when a company or person is successful in this country one must take into account how much effect the commons was a factor and come to the only logical conclusion that no man is an island. Success is not built by great men alone, but by teams of good people taking advantage of the opportunity the commons of America provides them. Thus, asking those people that benefit the most from that which is contributed by all of us to pay back into the system is both right and reasonable.


Just as Jay Leno has writers, Ben Rothleisburger has coaches, that heart surgeon has nurses assiting them and hospitals providing the OR.


grown up enough for you?

Well Hey -- who knew -- you're probably not 12 after all..

I really wasn't addressing what Jay Leno owes his writers. Those are market issues and PROBABLY largely out of Jay's hands anyway.. I was addressing the issue of what these successful people OWE to the collective. In particular the bottom-less pit of Wash. D.C. that PRETENDS to be a charitable organization with primary responsibility to care for all.

THe OP allows us to do either one.. Since it's about the raw ENVY and Class Warfare at the root of all this.

Do you believe that ShaQ needs to play 3/4 of his season for "the collective"? Your fellow leftists seems to believe the collective NEEDS to take 90% of his income after the first 20 games. Why is that?

Carbineer DID insinuate that these folks like musicians, sports figures, high level doctors, entrepreneurs, entertainers, were all "TAKING FROM THE WORK OF OTHERS". No. THey contract with others for their labor. Folks that can go home at 5PM, don't need to spend weeks on the road in hotels, nights in the lab, and their spare time answering phone calls at dinner. There is no taking in the market part of this discussion. There is negotiation.

As for the collective claim on these folks, there IS NO negotiation. The taking is dictated by political whims. And that can only be done by VILLIFYING THEM as selfish, greedy bastards and bitches so that they can be fleeced.

I'm not part of the angry mob that wants to fleece Katy Perry.. If Rob Lowe wants to get mugged by "the collective" -- he should write them a check..

 

[GuyPinestra]

Middle class conservatives (especially the LOWER middle class conservatives) suffer from false consciousness BIG time.

For some reason (which, quite frankly, eludes me) these conservatives think they're part of 'the club' of the chosen ones; they're torch-carriers for free-market capitalism in its ever purer form.

Yet, as the wealthy interests in this country increasingly change the system to benefit themselves first and foremost (that's human nature, darlin') while the trickle down economic benefits to the rest of us change from the trickle to mere drops of ever-decreasing frequency, these self same conservatives will find themselves on the outside looking in just like everybody else.

Could it be that these "lower class" conservatives just are tired of the left stereotyping them?

Yeah.....sure.....that's what it is......

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S38VioxnBaI]TEA PARTY RACISM: What The Media Won't Show You About Teabagger Racism - YouTube[/ame]​

That had to be the funniest clip I've ever watched!! Thanks Shaman, I needed that!

What a hoot, is that the Left's new definition of racist? People holding "God Bless Glenn Beck!" signs?

Really??

 

[Seawytch]

“Now the company of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one said that any of the things which he possessed was his own, but they had everything in common... There was not a needy person among them, for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of what was sold and laid it at the apostles feet; and distribution was made to each as any had need.” Acts 4:32-35.

That failed, miserably.

Pointing out the "class warfare" of Jesus usually does with Teavangelicals.

 

[P@triot]

“Now the company of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one said that any of the things which he possessed was his own, but they had everything in common... There was not a needy person among them, for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of what was sold and laid it at the apostles feet; and distribution was made to each as any had need.” Acts 4:32-35.

That failed, miserably.

Pointing out the "class warfare" of Jesus usually does with Teavangelicals.

If liberals weren't anti-Jesus heathen atheists, they would know that Jesus NEVER (repeat NEVER) said that government should take by force and redistribute as they see fit.

Don't try to hide your sick, twisted Communism/Marxism/Socialism behind the bible. Jesus preached giving of your own free will - and that's what conservatives do while liberals hoard their wealth for their greedy selves and rape liberal women at Occupy Wall Street criminal fests....