The Politics of Envy

[OldUSAFSniper]

I think it's ENVY, but also of a warped sense of FAIRNESS. The left believes that if you work hard and you acquire a lot, then to be "fair" you must or you should be made to share it with those who do not work as hard or you must be made to share with those who have less. I have never understood this facet of liberalism. This rush to defend a centralized system of theivery that will only lead to less freedom for all of us.

I've known people who have worked their asses off so hard that it killed them early in life. And at the time they died, they didn't have two nickels to rub together. I've known those that have worked hard and because of that, plus a little LUCK, they have made a lot. But because one was lucky and happened to be in the right place at the right time, that does NOT mean that he is required to share what he has with those who have less. It would be nice and if he does then he would be fulfilling a CHRISTIAN value. But he doesn't have to. If he wants to barracade himself in his house and take baths in silver dollars, he can do that. If he wants to live the life of Ebeneezer Scrooge, as distateful as that might be to the rest of us, he has that right. The right to private property is a SACRED AMERICAN VALUE. Whether a man breaks into your house and takes your possessions or if the government comes to the door and takes in the name of taxes, it is STEALING. Understand, that his does NOT mean that everyone is not liable for contributing to the common good in the form of taxes. It is the definition of that "common good" that I think is warped and way out of bounds in the mind of liberals.

No one said that capatalism is "fair". But we have seen that socialism and it's big brother communism is more unfair than capatalism at it's worse. The Dacha's on the Black Sea owned by the Soviet apparachik's are legendary. I've seen them and the houses in the Hampton's are miniscule compared to some of the estates.

If you REFUSE to work and you can, then you do not get SQUAT from the government. No welfare, no SSI, no food, no free cell phone. If you work hard, and do your best and you come up short, then I think we as a people have an obligation to help. But it should be temporary and it will NOT replace your need to strive for better.

For the left, if you do not have as much as the next guy, then for them it's only FAIR that we take, by force if necessary to distribute to those who want it. That is cowardice at it's rawest form. In life (regarless of economic system), some will fail and fail miserably. Propping them up by stealing from others makes everyone worse off...

 

[The T]

A fact in US capitalism. Those who actually do the most work to make a company successful are paid the least in the corporation.

Grunt work is a commodity.

And without it? A company goes no where...Unions know this too...

 

[Too Tall]

Perhaps you can explain how the highlighted part is an attempt at division.

Sure. Voter fraud should not be tolerated, and our Attorney General attempting to characterize simple precautions to curtail abuse as 'Whitey is out to get you niggas again!' is wrong, pathetic and wildly divisive.

But for you it is good politics, which why Leftist filth such as yourself condone it.

Should voter suppression be tolerated?

It all depends. If you see several black men with clubs standing in front of a polling place where some white people vote, that answer is absolutely yes! I say this because the US Justice Department said it was OK.

If a state requires a photo ID and has provisions in the state law that anyone without any money can get one free is considered voter suppression, that is another yes. But the latter is a HUGE stretch of the imagination.

 

[GuyPinestra]

Do you know why the call stockholders 'shareholders'? Because they own a share of a business. If they get a dividend from the stock they own, did they do work at the company to get that dividend? No. They get it from the work of others.

The others, i.e., the actual workers at the business, get paid to. For their work. That is their 'share'.

Shareholders provide the CAPITAL that makes the work POSSIBLE.

Or do you think that money grows on trees and just drops into the hands of those entrepreneurs?

 

[Mac1958]

I think it's ENVY, but also of a warped sense of FAIRNESS...

I think that's a very good point. "Fairness" is in the eye of the beholder, and the Left has named itself The Official Arbiter Of What Is Fair. I think most of it is well-meaning, it's just not thought through very well. Forcing "fairness" has downsides, too.

.

 

[uscitizen]

A fact in US capitalism. Those who actually do the most work to make a company successful are paid the least in the corporation.

First, those who started the company took all the risks and did the hard work to get it off the ground. Only someone who has actually made that sacrifice can really understand it. They deserve whatever financial reward they get.

Second, other high-paid people within the company have skills that make them worth that amount. Otherwise the company would hire someone else for less. The market economic system applies to the job market, as well.

Third, lower-paid employees who are willing to improve their skills, take the personal risks and make the sacrifices required are quite welcome to get a higher-paying job within the company or even start their own company at some point. Maybe not today or tomorrow, but where they're ready. It's up to them.

Are there exceptions to these rules? Of course. But in general, for those at the top of a company pay scale, they're already paid their dues.

.

so kinda like a union senority thing?
Dues have been paid for a while.

 

[flacaltenn]

Waaaaaa. Learn to read, asshole.

I used your phrase EXACTLY --- Lemme remind you what you said..

Most wealthy people got wealthy not entirely by their own work, but by being able to take a share of the work of others.

But I understand that you're being evasive, not answering my questions, because to admit THOSE RICH people have NOT "tak[en] a share of the work of others" would make you look whiny..

Kinda dissappointed me there Carbineer...

Ray Kroc, the RICH founder of McDonald's. Made millions and millions off that franchise. Did he flip every burger ever sold there? Did he lay every brick ever put into a McDonalds building? Did he mop every floor and clean every grill of every McDonald's at the end of every day?

Did he never make any money off the work of others? Is that your contention??

He made his money off of the concept of revolutionizing food delivery systems. And providing VALUE to customers and sacrificing his entire life to serve others.

As a side effect of that, he provided a VOLUNTARY opportunity to others like the contractors who built those buildings, to provide SERVICES to his vision and leadership. Also increased the opportunity for folks who were just entering the job market to START their service to others.

He COULD have sold his vision at any point for a handsome profit --- couldn't he? But it was NOT about cash. He VOLUNTEERED to continue the backbreaking pace of leadership for the organization..

He did NOTHING wrong. He DESERVES the profit.

Which represents LESS THAN A PENNY for every meal sold. Can the begging collective afford that? Could they elect to not be employed or be served by Ray Kroc? sure..

Now let's do --- Venus and Serena Williams. Also a target of you class warriors.. Who do THEY OWE? and WHY? What's the diff? Do they not also create jobs and employment reimbursed at a much LOWER scale than their winnings and endorsements.. Again -- What's the diff?

 

[flacaltenn]

A fact in US capitalism. Those who actually do the most work to make a company successful are paid the least in the corporation.

Grunt work is a commodity.

That may be the first true statement I've seen you make. I couldn't agree more.

Grunt work is also an endangered species. If you're focused on these jobs, you will never figure out what ails the current world economy.. Even the Chinese recognize what the future of labor looks like.. And it's NOT masses of lower skilled labor. The company that makes most of Apple's stuff currently employs about 1Mill.. In the next 10 years they will not be hiring more cheap labor. THe owner has started to build an ARMY of 1Mill robots to boost productivity and increase quality..

To provide value to your fellow citizens is gonna require a higher level of preparation, dedication, and drive.. Life in that way --- is gonna become more rewarding and harder.

 

[Mac1958]

A fact in US capitalism. Those who actually do the most work to make a company successful are paid the least in the corporation.

First, those who started the company took all the risks and did the hard work to get it off the ground. Only someone who has actually made that sacrifice can really understand it. They deserve whatever financial reward they get.

Second, other high-paid people within the company have skills that make them worth that amount. Otherwise the company would hire someone else for less. The market economic system applies to the job market, as well.

Third, lower-paid employees who are willing to improve their skills, take the personal risks and make the sacrifices required are quite welcome to get a higher-paying job within the company or even start their own company at some point. Maybe not today or tomorrow, but where they're ready. It's up to them.

Are there exceptions to these rules? Of course. But in general, for those at the top of a company pay scale, they're already paid their dues.

.

so kinda like a union senority thing?
Dues have been paid for a while.

Nope, nothing to do with seniority, quite the opposite. It's about effort and results. A high earner in a non-union company isn't guaranteed anything, they must continue to perform, period. No coasting allowed. That's REAL dues-paying.

.

 

[flacaltenn]

Our Founders did recognize, however, that stupid people should not be voting.


They knew stupid people would put people such as Pelosi in office and just vote themselves the other guys money, and eventually destroy our civilization.

Bright people, our Founding Fathers.

Yes they were, but they were also very arrogant. They lived in a society that is very very different from ours today.

If they were as arrogant as you wantt to portray them -- they never would have built the govt of this country on the premise of ALLL your rights stemming from a Higher Power than they were. That was the humblest move by leaders in modern history.

There wouldn't be enumerated powers for the Fed and a Ninth Amendment that states that EVERYTHING ELSE belongs to you..

Rich?? Yeah Arrogant? Nowhere close to any politicians since..

 

[flacaltenn]

It's not about envy. It's about rejecting the GOP philosophy and the GOP's attitude towards the Rich.

The country is in a fiscal crisis. The only way our fiscal house can be put in order is if Americans make sacrifices.

The Republican party has determined that the Rich will be exempted from any share of that sacrifice, in fact, the Republican party has determined that the Rich will actually be beneficiaries of any GOP plan to deal with our fiscal problems.

It is not envy to object to that stance. It is common sense.

political rhetoric.. If I was a Republican, i'd give you the 39% bracket back QUICKLY. Like a year or two ago.. Just to conclusively demonstrate how little that actually matters..
Then I would CRUSH the DEMOCRAT party for continuing to whine about class when their punitive envy-driven policies made things worse.

 

[Vidi]

Grunt work is a commodity.

That may be the first true statement I've seen you make. I couldn't agree more.

Grunt work is also an endangered species. If you're focused on these jobs, you will never figure out what ails the current world economy.. Even the Chinese recognize what the future of labor looks like.. And it's NOT masses of lower skilled labor. The company that makes most of Apple's stuff currently employs about 1Mill.. In the next 10 years they will not be hiring more cheap labor. THe owner has started to build an ARMY of 1Mill robots to boost productivity and increase quality..

To provide value to your fellow citizens is gonna require a higher level of preparation, dedication, and drive.. Life in that way --- is gonna become more rewarding and harder.

While all of that is certainly true, someone still has to push a mop around, someone still has to lay bricks. Many people actually enjoy the feeling of a good honest hard days work as opposed to pushing paper and computer keys all day.

One of the worst things that ever happened to me with my bakery was becoming successful enough that I had to spend more time at a desk than doing the physical labor itself. I got to the point where I missed it do much that I eventually had to hire someone else to do the paperwork do I could get back to the actual heavy lifting. ( on a side note, eating donuts everyday without the physical labor leads to a very large Vidi. But panning and unpanning a thousand loaves of bread a day will get you back in shape in a hurry. )

 

[flacaltenn]

That may be the first true statement I've seen you make. I couldn't agree more.

Grunt work is also an endangered species. If you're focused on these jobs, you will never figure out what ails the current world economy.. Even the Chinese recognize what the future of labor looks like.. And it's NOT masses of lower skilled labor. The company that makes most of Apple's stuff currently employs about 1Mill.. In the next 10 years they will not be hiring more cheap labor. THe owner has started to build an ARMY of 1Mill robots to boost productivity and increase quality..

To provide value to your fellow citizens is gonna require a higher level of preparation, dedication, and drive.. Life in that way --- is gonna become more rewarding and harder.

While all of that is certainly true, someone still has to push a mop around, someone still has to lay bricks. Many people actually enjoy the feeling of a good honest hard days work as opposed to pushing paper and computer keys all day.

One of the worst things that ever happened to me with my bakery was becoming successful enough that I had to spend more time at a desk than doing the physical labor itself. I got to the point where I missed it do much that I eventually had to hire someone else to do the paperwork do I could get back to the actual heavy lifting. ( on a side note, eating donuts everyday without the physical labor leads to a very large Vidi. But panning and unpanning a thousand loaves of bread a day will get you back in shape in a hurry. )

Service jobs are somewhat more immune than manufacturing, but not by much. Look at the self-checkout lanes at the markets. COULD you build a brick laying robot? Sure... Does it make economic sense right now for ALL applications? No...

In a modern automated factory you still need a dozen low skilled jobs, and MORE higher skilled workers. It's GETTING to modern manufacturing that has to be LED by highly skilled labor. There will always be a residual pool of lower skilled labor. But that pool is RAPIDLY shrinking.

And in a way -- I'm not sad about that. People should be released to be creative. Not have a career as a machine.. But that's personal pref.. I get dinged all the time for suggesting that people can't put in their 40hours and vegg the rest of the time.

As a baker -- motivated by serving your clients -- that release from the tedious parts of your task MIGHT enable you to customize your work to particular clients or develop new products..

 

[Vidi]

Grunt work is also an endangered species. If you're focused on these jobs, you will never figure out what ails the current world economy.. Even the Chinese recognize what the future of labor looks like.. And it's NOT masses of lower skilled labor. The company that makes most of Apple's stuff currently employs about 1Mill.. In the next 10 years they will not be hiring more cheap labor. THe owner has started to build an ARMY of 1Mill robots to boost productivity and increase quality..

To provide value to your fellow citizens is gonna require a higher level of preparation, dedication, and drive.. Life in that way --- is gonna become more rewarding and harder.

While all of that is certainly true, someone still has to push a mop around, someone still has to lay bricks. Many people actually enjoy the feeling of a good honest hard days work as opposed to pushing paper and computer keys all day.

One of the worst things that ever happened to me with my bakery was becoming successful enough that I had to spend more time at a desk than doing the physical labor itself. I got to the point where I missed it do much that I eventually had to hire someone else to do the paperwork do I could get back to the actual heavy lifting. ( on a side note, eating donuts everyday without the physical labor leads to a very large Vidi. But panning and unpanning a thousand loaves of bread a day will get you back in shape in a hurry. )

Service jobs are somewhat more immune than manufacturing, but not by much. Look at the self-checkout lanes at the markets. COULD you build a brick laying robot? Sure... Does it make economic sense right now for ALL applications? No...

In a modern automated factory you still need a dozen low skilled jobs, and MORE higher skilled workers. It's GETTING to modern manufacturing that has to be LED by highly skilled labor. There will always be a residual pool of lower skilled labor. But that pool is RAPIDLY shrinking.

And in a way -- I'm not sad about that. People should be released to be creative. Not have a career as a machine.. But that's personal pref.. I get dinged all the time for suggesting that people can't put in their 40hours and vegg the rest of the time.

As a baker -- motivated by serving your clients -- that release from the tedious parts of your task MIGHT enable you to customize your work to particular clients or develop new products..

That's certainly true. Once I was back on the floor, it also allowed me time to experiment with different mixes, different recipes, both perfecting and coming up with new products. So as you put it, it allowed me to "be creative"

I think I also got more production out of my employees not because I was there to keep them working but because I was willing to do any job. By showing nothing was beneath me, I think they were more willing to take on the "shit" jobs as well.

 

[ConzHateUSA]

It's not about envy. It's about rejecting the GOP philosophy and the GOP's attitude towards the Rich.

The country is in a fiscal crisis. The only way our fiscal house can be put in order is if Americans make sacrifices.

The Republican party has determined that the Rich will be exempted from any share of that sacrifice, in fact, the Republican party has determined that the Rich will actually be beneficiaries of any GOP plan to deal with our fiscal problems.

It is not envy to object to that stance. It is common sense.

political rhetoric.. If I was a Republican, i'd give you the 39% bracket back QUICKLY. Like a year or two ago.. Just to conclusively demonstrate how little that actually matters..
Then I would CRUSH the DEMOCRAT party for continuing to whine about class when their punitive envy-driven policies made things worse.

god, i rarely actually read what you idiots write, but i read yours here...my god you people are stupid...

 

[NYcarbineer]

I used your phrase EXACTLY --- Lemme remind you what you said..



But I understand that you're being evasive, not answering my questions, because to admit THOSE RICH people have NOT "tak[en] a share of the work of others" would make you look whiny..

Kinda dissappointed me there Carbineer...

Ray Kroc, the RICH founder of McDonald's. Made millions and millions off that franchise. Did he flip every burger ever sold there? Did he lay every brick ever put into a McDonalds building? Did he mop every floor and clean every grill of every McDonald's at the end of every day?

Did he never make any money off the work of others? Is that your contention??

He made his money off of the concept of revolutionizing food delivery systems. And providing VALUE to customers and sacrificing his entire life to serve others.

As a side effect of that, he provided a VOLUNTARY opportunity to others like the contractors who built those buildings, to provide SERVICES to his vision and leadership. Also increased the opportunity for folks who were just entering the job market to START their service to others.

He COULD have sold his vision at any point for a handsome profit --- couldn't he? But it was NOT about cash. He VOLUNTEERED to continue the backbreaking pace of leadership for the organization..

He did NOTHING wrong. He DESERVES the profit.

Which represents LESS THAN A PENNY for every meal sold. Can the begging collective afford that? Could they elect to not be employed or be served by Ray Kroc? sure..

?

Okay so you acknowledge that Kroc got a share of the value of other people's work. You need to go back and read my original statement and maybe you can address my point instead of galloping off on these inane non sequiturs and deflections.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

These days it seems to be all about class warfare,

Only according to the cultists who worship the wealthy.

 

[NYcarbineer]

It's not about envy. It's about rejecting the GOP philosophy and the GOP's attitude towards the Rich.

The country is in a fiscal crisis. The only way our fiscal house can be put in order is if Americans make sacrifices.

The Republican party has determined that the Rich will be exempted from any share of that sacrifice, in fact, the Republican party has determined that the Rich will actually be beneficiaries of any GOP plan to deal with our fiscal problems.

It is not envy to object to that stance. It is common sense.

political rhetoric.. If I was a Republican, i'd give you the 39% bracket back QUICKLY. Like a year or two ago.. Just to conclusively demonstrate how little that actually matters..
Then I would CRUSH the DEMOCRAT party for continuing to whine about class when their punitive envy-driven policies made things worse.

An increase in the top bracket only taxes money above 250,000 taxable. In other words, if you had 260,000 taxable, the 39% only applies to the 10,000 above 250,000.

Your tax bill on that 10,000 would go from 3600, where it is now, to 3900. 300 bucks.

 

[Vidi]

These days it seems to be all about class warfare,

Only according to the cultists who worship the wealthy.

No. On this the right is correct. It IS class warfare. They are just in denial as to who fired the first shots.

 

[ConzHateUSA]

The first shots were fired in the Gilded Age...the conz of today need to be educated, they need to learn why a functional society must have a progressive tax rate along with reasonable and enforceable regulations and laws to prevent a tiny minority of people from owning everything, as they did in the Gilded Age...