The Perversity of Entertainment Wages

[DGS49]

Los Angeles Dodgers Sandy Koufax and Don Drysdale End Holdout

A few days ago I watched an interview of Ron Howard (fka "Opie Taylor") on YouTube. He related a story about how he was a big Dodgers fan when he was a kid, and when Koufax and Drysdale held out he followed the story avidly. At the time he was 11 years old and playing on the Andy Griffith Show.

WHen the holdout ended he remembered sitting down and figuring out exactly what the pitchers were making ($500k over three years, each). He calculated his own annual pay, based on what he was making per episode. Lo and behold, he was making more than Koufax!

Ron Fucking Howard. More than possibly the best pitcher who ever lived.

I suspect the comparison of comparables today would be about the same.

Perverse, isn't it?

 

[WinterBorn]

Los Angeles Dodgers Sandy Koufax and Don Drysdale End Holdout

A few days ago I watched an interview of Ron Howard (fka "Opie Taylor") on YouTube. He related a story about how he was a big Dodgers fan when he was a kid, and when Koufax and Drysdale held out he followed the story avidly. At the time he was 11 years old and playing on the Andy Griffith Show.

WHen the holdout ended he remembered sitting down and figuring out exactly what the pitchers were making ($500k over three years, each). He calculated his own annual pay, based on what he was making per episode. Lo and behold, he was making more than Koufax!

Ron Fucking Howard. More than possibly the best pitcher who ever lived.

I suspect the comparison of comparables today would be about the same.

Perverse, isn't it?

Is it? Perverse, I mean. Professional sports is basically entertainment. That the best in their fields get paid major money is not a surprise. When I see people complaining about how much stars make, I look at the profit margins for the films they are in. The movies made money. That they got a chunk of it does not surprise me.

 

[harmonica]

BULLSHIT
wrong---did he figure that pitchers don't play every game?
and even then, they might not play the whole game
and they SIT every half inning when they play
pitchers don't work year round
games last maybe 3 hours
etc etc

 

[SandSquid]

Los Angeles Dodgers Sandy Koufax and Don Drysdale End Holdout

A few days ago I watched an interview of Ron Howard (fka "Opie Taylor") on YouTube. He related a story about how he was a big Dodgers fan when he was a kid, and when Koufax and Drysdale held out he followed the story avidly. At the time he was 11 years old and playing on the Andy Griffith Show.

WHen the holdout ended he remembered sitting down and figuring out exactly what the pitchers were making ($500k over three years, each). He calculated his own annual pay, based on what he was making per episode. Lo and behold, he was making more than Koufax!

Ron Fucking Howard. More than possibly the best pitcher who ever lived.

I suspect the comparison of comparables today would be about the same.

Perverse, isn't it?

Wild, but not perverse if you ask me. People willingly pay billions for what athletes provide. I'm fine if the athletes get half of that income.

If Lebron James makes the NBA 100 million a year for his abilities and marketing, should he be able to keep 50 million of that?

I think in a free market, you should be able to maximize your income based on what your value is.

Now if in Koufax's time, the owner was making 500 million and Koufax got 150k, that is what I would find perverse. But I think the unions have worked hard to get that fair split.

 

[22lcidw]

Cable TV reform would help the consumer pay less and then perhaps start to adjust athletes salaries.

 

[SandSquid]

Cable TV reform would help the consumer pay less and then perhaps start to adjust athletes salaries.

Not sure if that would. NFL for example makes over 9 billion from Fox, NBC, and CBS, where ESPN brings in less than 2 billion. The majority of the games for the NFL are carried on advertising dollars only. And streaming is where the growth is really showing up.

 

[Dekster]

The teams can only pay it if they are making it. If they are making it, why shouldn't the workhorses share in the abundance of hay?

 

[DGS49]

From my standpoint, baseball players, though merely entertainers, rise through MERIT. Drysdale and Koufax were literally 2 out of millions of their contemporaries who tried baseball, loved it, went as far as their talents and desires could take them, and ended up selling insurance.

That a dopey kid, doing what a million other dopey kids could do if given a chance, was making more than Koufax and Drysdale is like saying that a cute hospital orderly is making more than a heart transplant surgeon. It is fucking preposterous.

I understand and accept the economics of it, but it is in-fucking-sane.

 

[fncceo]

You're falling into the Marxist trap known as the labor theory of value.

It says that the amount or labor that goes into anything determines its value.

In essence, a ditch dug by hand and a Picasso are equally as valuable if they took the same amount of labor to create.

The value of any persons labor is no more, or no less, than what people are willing to pay for it.

A sports hero and a child actor are both entertainers and their salaries are what the producers of that entertainment feel they need to pay to keep the entertainer from selling his services elsewhere.

'The Andy Griffith Show' was very popular at the time and ratings equals revenue in television. The producers felt that Ron Howard was necessary to that popularity and paid him accordingly.

Similarly, talented baseball players are a draw to paying sports fans and they are paid by owners that which the owners feel is necessary to keep them from selling their talents elsewhere.

 

[WinterBorn]

From my standpoint, baseball players, though merely entertainers, rise through MERIT. Drysdale and Koufax were literally 2 out of millions of their contemporaries who tried baseball, loved it, went as far as their talents and desires could take them, and ended up selling insurance.

That a dopey kid, doing what a million other dopey kids could do if given a chance, was making more than Koufax and Drysdale is like saying that a cute hospital orderly is making more than a heart transplant surgeon. It is fucking preposterous.

I understand and accept the economics of it, but it is in-fucking-sane.

I think you underestimate what it takes to be an actor, especially day after day playing a part that is not you.

Also, if you look at lists of top fears in the US, speaking in front of a crowd ranks at the top of most lists. To make that a child and the crowd being millions of people would make it exponentially worse.

 

[DGS49]

There are many "arts" that reward the Ordinary with extraordinary compensation, and the beneficiaries can cite nothing other than serendipity.

Rod Stewart, who would be rejected by every self-respecting church choir in the English-speaking world.

John Wayne, who couldn't act himself out of a parking ticket.

Cher, who, like Stewart, lacked even a semblance of musical talent.

In fact, the only "contemporary" music that I hear nowadays is the music that is piped into my L.A. Fitness club, and most of the "music" is young men and women talking or yelling into a microphone, accompanied by talented musicians who mainly hide the mediocrity of the vocalists.

Ron Howard may be a good "Director" now (whatever a Director is), but as Opie Taylor, he was doing what a million other kids could have done as well. Not EVERY dopey kid could do it convincingly, but at least a million of them.

Drysdale and Koufax rose through a hyper-Darwinian system where literally millions of young men tried their best to succeed and only a handful made it to the top, and these two made it to the top of the top.

The idea that Ron Howard made more than those two pitchers was a travesty. And again, I understand the economics of it. Consider if Scarlett Johansen agreed to do a Porn Film. She could make tens of millions of dollars for a few minutes' work. And she probably would be no more talented at this task than the average housewife. Ultimately, the intrinsic value of her work would pale beside that of an electrician. But that's economic life, eh?

 

[WinterBorn]

There are many "arts" that reward the Ordinary with extraordinary compensation, and the beneficiaries can cite nothing other than serendipity.

Rod Stewart, who would be rejected by every self-respecting church choir in the English-speaking world.

John Wayne, who couldn't act himself out of a parking ticket.

Cher, who, like Stewart, lacked even a semblance of musical talent.

In fact, the only "contemporary" music that I hear nowadays is the music that is piped into my L.A. Fitness club, and most of the "music" is young men and women talking or yelling into a microphone, accompanied by talented musicians who mainly hide the mediocrity of the vocalists.

Ron Howard may be a good "Director" now (whatever a Director is), but as Opie Taylor, he was doing what a million other kids could have done as well. Not EVERY dopey kid could do it convincingly, but at least a million of them.

Drysdale and Koufax rose through a hyper-Darwinian system where literally millions of young men tried their best to succeed and only a handful made it to the top, and these two made it to the top of the top.

The idea that Ron Howard made more than those two pitchers was a travesty. And again, I understand the economics of it. Consider if Scarlett Johansen agreed to do a Porn Film. She could make tens of millions of dollars for a few minutes' work. And she probably would be no more talented at this task than the average housewife. Ultimately, the intrinsic value of her work would pale beside that of an electrician. But that's economic life, eh?

Your claims of a lack of talent are ridiculous.

Rod Stewart would be rejected by choirs? So singing in a choir is the high water mark for musical talent? He is one of the best selling rock musicians of all time. His ability to move an audience is what separates him from a high quality choir vocalist. I guess you know better than the people who run the music world.

What Ron Howard did was create a beloved character. The audience wasn't looking for Sir Laurence Olivier. They wanted the character Howard created from the scripts written. YOu think millions of other boys could have done that? No, they could not.

 

[SandSquid]

There are many "arts" that reward the Ordinary with extraordinary compensation, and the beneficiaries can cite nothing other than serendipity.

Rod Stewart, who would be rejected by every self-respecting church choir in the English-speaking world.

John Wayne, who couldn't act himself out of a parking ticket.

Cher, who, like Stewart, lacked even a semblance of musical talent.

In fact, the only "contemporary" music that I hear nowadays is the music that is piped into my L.A. Fitness club, and most of the "music" is young men and women talking or yelling into a microphone, accompanied by talented musicians who mainly hide the mediocrity of the vocalists.

Ron Howard may be a good "Director" now (whatever a Director is), but as Opie Taylor, he was doing what a million other kids could have done as well. Not EVERY dopey kid could do it convincingly, but at least a million of them.

Drysdale and Koufax rose through a hyper-Darwinian system where literally millions of young men tried their best to succeed and only a handful made it to the top, and these two made it to the top of the top.

The idea that Ron Howard made more than those two pitchers was a travesty. And again, I understand the economics of it. Consider if Scarlett Johansen agreed to do a Porn Film. She could make tens of millions of dollars for a few minutes' work. And she probably would be no more talented at this task than the average housewife. Ultimately, the intrinsic value of her work would pale beside that of an electrician. But that's economic life, eh?

If anyone could do what Ron Howard did, why do we Remember Ron Howard as Opie and not Buddy Foster as Mike?

Your belief is that anyone can draw the same ticket sales as those actors, just no one else is actually trying to get into acting? That's kinda like saying "well if Koufax left today, baseball still exists, teams still win the world series, and someone out there is going to still be the best pitcher in baseball".

If what you are saying is true, that any singer in a choir can sell 100 million plus albums, why don't they? If all a company had to do was hire a new person and they could make millions off them on a $10k contract instead of a multi-million dollar contract don't you think that's what they'd be doing?

It's not just working hard. It's maximizing your value and what your position is worth in a competitive industry that has high sales.

You can be the most talented McDonalds cook ever but if someone random can walk in off the street and do 75% of your work at 10 bucks an hour, you aren't getting paid millions.

Bored so I'm going to try to swap that into today's dollars..

Looking at the average payroll of $345,000 in 1966 on baseball reference, that means their 166k a year was 48% of an average teams payroll. At 141 million a year in average payroll today, that would work out to be a $67.7 million dollar a year contract. Or just under double (93%) more than the current highest paid player (it would equate to a 3 year - 203 million dollar deal). Wow

 

[DGS49]

Rod Stewart is popular precisely BECAUSE he has no musical talent. People listen to him sing and say to themselves, "I COULD DO THAT!" "I sound better than that in the shower."

A nephew of mine recently applied to a reputable university music program to major in Voice, and he told me how competitive the process was. There is NO WAY a singer like RS would have been accepted, let alone completed a degree.

And Ron Howard caught a huge break that thousands of other kids could have done as well with. Koufax & Drysdale? No comparison.

 

[WinterBorn]

Rod Stewart is popular precisely BECAUSE he has no musical talent. People listen to him sing and say to themselves, "I COULD DO THAT!" "I sound better than that in the shower."

A nephew of mine recently applied to a reputable university music program to major in Voice, and he told me how competitive the process was. There is NO WAY a singer like RS would have been accepted, let alone completed a degree.

And Ron Howard caught a huge break that thousands of other kids could have done as well with. Koufax & Drysdale? No comparison.

There doesn't have to be a comparison. But your assertions that Rod Stewart or Ron Howard have no talent is absurd.

Yes, I am sure Rod Stewart would not make the "reputable university music program". What sort of music? Opera? But being able to take a song, own it and touch people with your singing is talent. Being able to hit each note is not.

Now, Koufax and Drysdale are great. No doubt about it. But there are what, 30 teams in MLB? There are 25 active and 40 people on an expanded roster? So there are 750 players out there. How much money is made by each team? Even winning a lot, how much does the team actually make?

A tv show, especially a hit show, has a much higher ceiling for what they pay. Because they make so much more.


And finally, if the money is there, would you think it should go to the producers? Or to the people who make the show what it is? Opie got paid. That does not change anything about Koufax at all. Nothing.

 

[WinterBorn]

Rod Stewart is popular precisely BECAUSE he has no musical talent. People listen to him sing and say to themselves, "I COULD DO THAT!" "I sound better than that in the shower."

A nephew of mine recently applied to a reputable university music program to major in Voice, and he told me how competitive the process was. There is NO WAY a singer like RS would have been accepted, let alone completed a degree.

And Ron Howard caught a huge break that thousands of other kids could have done as well with. Koufax & Drysdale? No comparison.

There is one simple fact that shoots down your whole theory.

If they could get any one of a thousand boys to play Opie Taylor, then why wouldn't they get the other boy and save hundreds of thousands of dollars? Why wouldn't they get someone out of a choir and not have to pay Rod Stewart? All of those are big businesses. The people in charge had rather not pay big money out. But they do. Because they are worth it.

 

[DGS49]

I didn't say Ron Howard had no talent as an actor, but he had no more talent than a million other kids. Once he was established on the program he couldn't be replaced because the audience wouldn't have accepted another dopey kid.

Think about the popular talent programs on television. The Voice. America's Got Talent. Stewart, on his best day, wouldn't have made it past the first audition. He wouldn't have been able to finish his song on the old Gong Show.

 

[WinterBorn]

I didn't say Ron Howard had no talent as an actor, but he had no more talent than a million other kids. Once he was established on the program he couldn't be replaced because the audience wouldn't have accepted another dopey kid.

Think about the popular talent programs on television. The Voice. America's Got Talent. Stewart, on his best day, wouldn't have made it past the first audition. He wouldn't have been able to finish his song on the old Gong Show.

Rod Stewart made it on the ultimate talent show. He made it for the long haul, in the real business. He didn't go with some over-hyped, flash in the pan moment. How many of those shows have someone who lasts in the real business?

Stewart has been entertaining people for 58 years. But you, in your infinite wisdom, claim that he is a hack and should not be on any stage. He has sold over 100 million records, and had six consecutive #1 albums in the UK.

He may not be to your taste, but calling him talentless is simply wrong. No one buys his music because they think "I could do that". That is laughably wrong.

 

[Montrovant]

Rod Stewart was not just a singer, he also was a songwriter. I don't care for his music, but he didn't only sing what other people wrote for him.

Yes, there is a huge amount of luck and knowing the right people involved in success in something like the music industry. So? That other people may have as much or more talent as Rod Stewart doesn't mean he has none.

 

[DGS49]

Show Biz rewards a LOT of people with no, or nearly no, talent. There are beautiful and handsome actors who are on the screen for no reason other than that they are photogenic (e.g., Emily VanCamp, Sullivan Stapleton). There are pop singers who can't sing, but look great on their CD covers. Their bad "singing" is masked by electronic gadgetry and musical overlay.

But professional athletes rise up through a Darwinian gauntlet, and it is only the most talented in the world that reach the highest levels. You can't bullshit your way to a Cy Young Award or a batting championship.

And since both are in the "entertainment" business, I find it regrettable that musicians and actors are paid so disproportionately, especially when their "talent" is so subjective.